Put in Perra

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Winnipegopher said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that Perra doesn't have as equally bright future as Streveler or Leidner. I think they are arguing that it would be insane to play a true freshman walk-on and expect success.

I agree McGloin is a good example. He didn't really play until his sophomore year and I am pretty sure PSU would have liked to see him return for 2013 rather than burning a year in 2009.

Note also that McGloin did not start until October 30 of his sophomore year so had a year and half in the program before he started.
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Great point. Even Manziel and Jameis redshirted. The list of true freshman QBs, scholarship or walk-on, that have been good college QBs at Power 5 teams in the past 10 years may be even shorter than the number of walk-on QBs who went on to contribute. So you're talking about taking a tiny percentage and multiplying it by a tiny percentage.
 

justthefacts said:
Great point. Even Manziel and Jameis redshirted. The list of true freshman QBs, scholarship or walk-on, that have been good college QBs at Power 5 teams in the past 10 years may be even shorter than the number of walk-on QBs who went on to contribute. So you're talking about taking a tiny percentage and multiplying it by a tiny percentage.
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They had first round NFL QBs starting in front if them.
 

Spoofin said:
Oh, so you're willing to give a freshman QB "a couple games." I think that tells me all I need to know.
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You know what tells me all I need to know? Is watching the same QB movie over and over and over, like Gopherhog Day. If you've ever played football, you would know that the QB position takes the instinct to see a play developing. And because of the complexity, it also takes the brains to process the game (match-ups, coverages, tendencies). Courage is another needed quality. If a kid has these, it will show in the FIRST GAME he plays. If not, and you're the Gophers, you'll play a guy a whole season before figuring it out.
 

In no way am I an advocate for putting in Perra anytime soon, but check out this tweet about Kill's idol Bill Snyder at K-State.

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

I know this is going to sound strange but, to make my point about Perra, look at UMD, whom I've followed for years. Two NCAA titles recently from a team that primarily runs the ball and recruits second/third tier prospects. So what's the biggest difference between them and the Gophers...Sooooo simple. QB play.
Especially Chase Vogler. The kid wasn't a strong-armed passer but was great improvising on pass plays. He wasn't a fleet runner but always knew when to tuck it and how to get the yardage he needed. And the kid was FEARLESS. I can't remember how many critical 4th downs and 4th quarter drives he produced. Vogler was better than ANY Gopher QB we've had in the Kill era. Period! A very good Rosemount player I think. Probably a two star rating. And I doubt the Gophers ever talked to him. The kind of kid that NDSU and UMD thrives on. A couple of programs having much more success than the U.
That's my rant for the day.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
In no way am I an advocate for putting in Perra anytime soon, but check out this tweet about Kill's idol Bill Snyder at K-State.

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Wow, that is amazing.
 

beat bucky said:
I know this is going to sound strange but, to make my point about Perra, look at UMD, whom I've followed for years. Two NCAA titles recently from a team that primarily runs the ball and recruits second/third tier prospects. So what's the biggest difference between them and the Gophers...Sooooo simple. QB play.
Especially Chase Vogler. The kid wasn't a strong-armed passer but was great improvising on pass plays. He wasn't a fleet runner but always knew when to tuck it and how to get the yardage he needed. And the kid was FEARLESS. I can't remember how many critical 4th downs and 4th quarter drives he produced. Vogler was better than ANY Gopher QB we've had in the Kill era. Period! A very good Rosemount player I think. Probably a two star rating. And I doubt the Gophers ever talked to him. The kind of kid that NDSU and UMD thrives on. A couple of programs having much more success than the U.
That's my rant for the day.
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"Was at the Gophers scrimmage and, for the first time in years, saw a QB drop back, calmly read the coverage, and deliver a ball accurately out of the break- for a TD no less. That QB was Jacques Perra. I even told him how impressed I was afterwards."

BB, reveal yourself!
picked up a user-id just to pump Perra... hmmm... are you the Roseville head coach? Volger's uncle?
 

dboy said:
"Was at the Gophers scrimmage and, for the first time in years, saw a QB drop back, calmly read the coverage, and deliver a ball accurately out of the break- for a TD no less. That QB was Jacques Perra. I even told him how impressed I was afterwards."

BB, reveal yourself!
picked up a user-id just to pump Perra... hmmm... are you the Roseville head coach? Volger's uncle?
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Hate to disappoint you. Don't know any of them. Just a frustrated Gopher football fan (ha).
 

beat bucky said:
I know this is going to sound strange but, to make my point about Perra, look at UMD, whom I've followed for years. Two NCAA titles recently from a team that primarily runs the ball and recruits second/third tier prospects. So what's the biggest difference between them and the Gophers...Sooooo simple. QB play.
Especially Chase Vogler. The kid wasn't a strong-armed passer but was great improvising on pass plays. He wasn't a fleet runner but always knew when to tuck it and how to get the yardage he needed. And the kid was FEARLESS. I can't remember how many critical 4th downs and 4th quarter drives he produced. Vogler was better than ANY Gopher QB we've had in the Kill era. Period! A very good Rosemount player I think. Probably a two star rating. And I doubt the Gophers ever talked to him. The kind of kid that NDSU and UMD thrives on. A couple of programs having much more success than the U.
That's my rant for the day.
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You're saying a D-2 QB is better than a number of scholarship D-1 QBs, including an elite athlete who's now playing in the NFL. Why would that sound strange to anyone? :rolleyes:
 



fryguy22 said:
You're saying a D-2 QB is better than a number of scholarship D-1 QBs, including an elite athlete who's now playing in the NFL. Why would that sound strange to anyone? :rolleyes:
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Well let's see... Vogler set school records, won a couple conference championships and won a national championship. In four years, not one of Kill's Gopher QBs has even figured out how to beat Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State or finish in the top half of their half of the conference. And Marquis Gray was so talented at QB that the NFL immediately moved him to TE.
I watched all of these QBs in person, many times, and there was no question who was best.
 

beat bucky said:
Well let's see... Vogler set school records, won a couple conference championships and won a national championship. In four years, not one of Kill's Gopher QBs has even figured out how to beat Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State or finish in the top half of their half of the conference. And Marquis Gray was so talented at QB that the NFL immediately moved him to TE.
I watched all of these QBs in person, many times, and there was no question who was best.
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As has been pointed out numerous times you can cherrypick examples of the couple guys that prove your point but these players are the exception and not the rule.

And to that last part, unless you are in meetings with these guys everyday and know the ins and outs of the playbook and their grasp of it I don't know how you can claim the #3 guy was clearly the best based on watching them in practice. You don't know what the play call is, what all the progressions are....

Perra may be the best pure passer of the 3, heck given what we have seen of Leidner and Streveler I might even be inclined to think he is. That fact alone does not make him the best QB to run the offense on gameday, there is so much more to it then the stuff fans see on the surface.
 

beat bucky said:
Well let's see... Vogler set school records, won a couple conference championships and won a national championship. In four years, not one of Kill's Gopher QBs has even figured out how to beat Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State or finish in the top half of their half of the conference. And Marquis Gray was so talented at QB that the NFL immediately moved him to TE.
I watched all of these QBs in person, many times, and there was no question who was best.
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Eric Crouch must have been a horrible college QB too since he was drafted as a WR.
 

Fuzzy Rumpton said:
Eric Crouch must have been a horrible college QB too since he was drafted as a WR.
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Charlie Ward was an even worse college quarterback. Hell, he had to go play basketball after not being drafted as a qb.
 



beat bucky said:
Well let's see... Vogler set school records, won a couple conference championships and won a national championship. In four years, not one of Kill's Gopher QBs has even figured out how to beat Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State or finish in the top half of their half of the conference. And Marquis Gray was so talented at QB that the NFL immediately moved him to TE.
I watched all of these QBs in person, many times, and there was no question who was best.
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So success against the likes of Minnesota-Crookston and the University of Mary would translate to beating Wisconsin and Michigan...please.
 

beat bucky said:
Well let's see... Vogler set school records, won a couple conference championships and won a national championship. In four years, not one of Kill's Gopher QBs has even figured out how to beat Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State or finish in the top half of their half of the conference. And Marquis Gray was so talented at QB that the NFL immediately moved him to TE.
I watched all of these QBs in person, many times, and there was no question who was best.
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A lot of Gopher QBs can say they have never beaten Wisconsin or Michigan. And none of Jerry Kill's teams have played Ohio State, so your statement is completely impossible.

Gray's talent at QB was impacted from several years of switching positions and having to learn a new offensive scheme almost every year. Denard Robinson is another highly talented B1G QB who switched to RB/WR in the NFL

Auburn's offense runs a similar personnel scheme to ours (lots of TEs and FBs and the read option) with pretty minimal throwing ability from the QB and went to the title game last year. So your point doesn't hold as much weight at the college level.
 

Let me understand. Are you comparing Gray, Nelson and Leidner and their accomplishments to Crouch, Ward and Newton? Because if you are...
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So success against the likes of Minnesota-Crookston and the University of Mary would translate to beating Wisconsin and Michigan...please.
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Not necessarily. But it might translate to success against South Dakota, New Mexico State or North Dakota State. zzzzing!
 

beat bucky said:
Let me understand. Are you comparing Gray, Nelson and Leidner and their accomplishments to Crouch, Ward and Newton? Because if you are...
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Either you're an idiot or you are purposely trolling on this site. Either way I think it's time for you to move on to another activity.
 

The coaches need to make a major decision before we can even postulate who the QB should be... That decision being, are we a "turn & hand it to Cobb & play action off pounding the rock" offence or an "option/zone read" offence? If your are going more conventional(which I think we are slowly morphing that direction)... Then Perra makes more sense. If it's more option based, then Leidner/Strevler is the way to go
 

beat bucky said:
You know what tells me all I need to know? Is watching the same QB movie over and over and over, like Gopherhog Day. If you've ever played football, you would know that the QB position takes the instinct to see a play developing. And because of the complexity, it also takes the brains to process the game (match-ups, coverages, tendencies). Courage is another needed quality. If a kid has these, it will show in the FIRST GAME he plays. If not, and you're the Gophers, you'll play a guy a whole season before figuring it out.
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+1
either you have it, or you don't..

the offense will be as complex as the OC wants it to be.. NFL-level all the way down to pony league.. surely Perra can master two dozen plays?


for losses, i have ML at 3 bad losses before 'next'.. 1 so far. I dont think we waste the entire season.
 

dboy: meet beat bucky.
beat bucky: meet dboy.
Now that you know each other why don't the 2 of you go somewhere else together.
 

beat bucky said:
Not necessarily. But it might translate to success against South Dakota, New Mexico State or North Dakota State. zzzzing!
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Yeah, we got it Vogler. You would have been Big Ten QB #1! :rolleyes:
 

The only reason Parra is #3 right now is because he is not on scholarship. They have to redshirt the scholarship freshman. Parra should only play if injury dictates.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The only reason Parra is #3 right now is because he is not on scholarship. They have to redshirt the scholarship freshman. Parra should only play if injury dictates.
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Not sure why you posted that because it is not true. They burned Nelson red shirt after Gray went down. The reason that they will burn Perra's red shirt and not Roden-McKinzy's is that Perra is farther along in his development than Roden-McKinzy. It is a simple as that.
 

Killjoy said:
It is a simple as that.
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Not really.

In a recent interview (can't remember which one) Kill specifically stated that Perra is #3 is because they don't want to burn the redshirt off DRM.

I think it was in the WCCO sports huddle thread.
 

Unregistered User said:
Not really.

In a recent interview (can't remember which one) Kill specifically stated that Perra is #3 is because they don't want to burn the redshirt off DRM.

I think it was in the WCCO sports huddle thread.
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True, but he has also said DRM has a long ways to go and a lot to learn so you could conclude that is why he needs to RS?
 

The number of posters being attacked for contrary opinions amazes me. I take the attacks on these people much like I view the burning of books.
 

Dean S said:
The number of posters being attacked for contrary opinions amazes me. I take the attacks on these people much like I view the burning of books.
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Thanks Dean. It always amazes me how some pull out the "personal destruction card" if someone dares have a different opinion than they do. Gotta keep a sense of humor about it.
I would only add this about guys like Perra and Vogler. A lot of lightly recruited, borderline D1 college players have made it to the NFL. UMD's had a few. I recall Ted McKnight being one. And how about Minnesota State's Adam Theilen? Why all the snobbery?
 

Dean S said:
The number of posters being attacked for contrary opinions amazes me. I take the attacks on these people much like I view the burning of books.
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oh you. You know just how to win my heart.
 

beat bucky said:
Thanks Dean. It always amazes me how some pull out the "personal destruction card" if someone dares have a different opinion than they do. Gotta keep a sense of humor about it.
I would only add this about guys like Perra and Vogler. A lot of lightly recruited, borderline D1 college players have made it to the NFL. UMD's had a few. I recall Ted McKnight being one. And how about Minnesota State's Adam Theilen? Why all the snobbery?
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Yes guys from small schools make it to the NFL but it is not "a lot" of players and even fewer of them are QB's. You are still falling back on the exceptions and not the rule, using those rare examples to try and prove your point about Perra. I will continue to go back to the simple fact that if the coaches believed Perra gave them the best chance to win he would be playing. If they believe he gives us the best chance to win and he is not playing then they deserve to get fired.
 

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