Prepare for an agonizing non-conference

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highwayman said:
It's not a matter of shortening the playbook. Not quite that simplistic. All season long, you leave out plays that are not working in practice. Sometimes that is a personnel problem. Sometimes its a keep under wraps issue.

Either way, leas plays are called in the NC. By every team. The difference in 2014 will be the O line and the number of weapons at Limgrover's disposal. I'm bullish on this NC.
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Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but most experience QB's have 2 or 3 check downs for each base play, depending on what they see with the defense. With young QBs they often only have one check down which to me is shortening the play book.
 


I don't think it's a kill style issue, it's a "weak offense" issue, which hopefully we fixed. Would be curious to see the same analysis of kills teams at northern.
 

Good OP Barnboy. Thanks for sharing your research.
 

highwayman said:
It's not a matter of shortening the playbook. Not quite that simplistic. All season long, you leave out plays that are not working in practice. Sometimes that is a personnel problem. Sometimes its a keep under wraps issue.

Either way, leas plays are called in the NC. By every team. The difference in 2014 will be the O line and the number of weapons at Limgrover's disposal. I'm bullish on this NC.
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+1 Sometimes (Mason comes to mind) you will throw in plays you may never run again to give the opponent more to prepare for as well. That and tweaking to the opponents strengths/ weaknesses.

Brewster (IIRC) Used to say(Paraphrasing big time here) you want to take your team from losing big to losing little and winning by a little to mostly winning by a little and occasionally winning big to ultimately mostly winning by big margins. What I believe he was implying is that you want your team to progress and learn how to win.

I do see a methodical progression with this team. While I did enjoy this analysis, at the end of the season, I will have forgotten the how and why.
 


BarnBoy said:
This site is becoming almost unreadable. I hope it has to do with the fact that it's July. I want this site to be more analysis about games, players, Xs and Os. Everything becomes a pissing match. Everything becomes either/or. Welcome to the bowels of the Internet.

The purpose of my original post was to point out something that I saw over the last two years. Slow starts. It's how Kill coaches. It's the system that DOES translate from year-to-year. His philosophy. We will be much better executing this year and I hope to HELL we start crushing teams. Maybe I wasn't clear in that part. My post was not a dig at Kill and Co.

This was merely something to chew on because it's July. Then you get posters leading off their replies with phrases like "garbage analysis". Wow.

Over the last several months, I have been tempted to stop visiting this site and posting simply because of about 10-15 people that derail every conversation and make everything personal. And that's not meant to be a threat. Nobody cares if I leave. I know that. It's just sad because i think there is a silent majority who is more passionate and respectful about the Gophers and their fellow fans and have interest in debating topics like this instead of "good weight vs. bad weight" or "the star system" or whatever other rabbit holes we always go down.

There, I derailed my own thread.
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I'm sorry. Your analysis was wonderful. Have a popsicle.
 

BarnBoy said:
This site is becoming almost unreadable. I hope it has to do with the fact that it's July. I want this site to be more analysis about games, players, Xs and Os. Everything becomes a pissing match. Everything becomes either/or. Welcome to the bowels of the Internet.

The purpose of my original post was to point out something that I saw over the last two years. Slow starts. It's how Kill coaches. It's the system that DOES translate from year-to-year. His philosophy. We will be much better executing this year and I hope to HELL we start crushing teams. Maybe I wasn't clear in that part. My post was not a dig at Kill and Co.

This was merely something to chew on because it's July. Then you get posters leading off their replies with phrases like "garbage analysis". Wow.

Over the last several months, I have been tempted to stop visiting this site and posting simply because of about 10-15 people that derail every conversation and make everything personal. And that's not meant to be a threat. Nobody cares if I leave. I know that. It's just sad because i think there is a silent majority who is more passionate and respectful about the Gophers and their fellow fans and have interest in debating topics like this instead of "good weight vs. bad weight" or "the star system" or whatever other rabbit holes we always go down.

There, I derailed my own thread.
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If all is going according to kills' plan, that's how games SHOULD go. When the plan is to pound the rock down their throat, with a drive spanning the whole 1st quarter, we shouldn't be up by 21 after the 1st 1/4.
 

Now I am totally frikking confused.

Some people complain about a "creampuff" OOC scedule.

Others worry about losing OOC games.

Jesus Mary, help me out of this Twilight Zone.
 

Dr.Don said:
Now I am totally frikking confused.

Some people complain about a "creampuff" OOC scedule.

Others worry about losing OOC games.

Jesus Mary, help me out of this Twilight Zone.
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This way to the bar...
 




The tone of Gopherhole also continues to improve over the last four years as the team improves. I am looking forward to exciting posts about improvements with the team and the recruiting.
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Hope is always better than "Prepare for an agonizing non-conference" with nothing more than point differentials. Well, the differential that counts is 4-0. To me, there is nothing agonizing about 4-0. Last year, the Gophers played with more comfort, were opportunistic, played within their game plan, and adjusted to game conditions. Unfortunately, there are some who believe that game adjustments are necessary for victory. In the immortal words of George Patton, planning creates the opportunities for victory. 3rd Army pivots to Bastogne effectively because they planned for that contingency PRIOR to the German offensive. Not by breaking codes and knowing it was coming but by thinking about all types of problems and putting in the effort to know how to counter that play.

If the Gopher coaches don't have it in them to out plan the opposition, no amount of mid game correction will defeat the game planning of the opposition coach unless they get a lucky break on miscues.

Whiny little talk about how agonizing it is to watch the Gophers is loser talk and loser analysis. It may have been good banter years ago in the age of losing big, but it is hard to stomach in the Age of the Big Turnaround.

When you put your hand into the post of goo, that was your teammates thinking, you'll know what to do! We are going to grease our treads with their guts! Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
 

Ok, fair enough, Dean-O. You've made your point. I see how my title and tone came across as a bit Debbie Downer.

If you actually read my post, you would have noticed that point I was trying to make was about slow starts and how I think OTHERS are going to freak out the moment we are tied at halftime with a lesser opponent. Nothing more, nothing less. And if you bothered to read any of my other 1,500 posts, you would have noticed that I am as about as positive as they come, but you're big bad Dean-O and have your mind made up.

You write and sound like some sort of SNL character. And yes, I feel better. I had my popsicle.
 

BarnBoy said:
Ok, fair enough, Dean-O. You've made your point. I see how my title and tone came across as a bit Debbie Downer.

If you actually read my post, you would have noticed that point I was trying to make was about slow starts and how I think OTHERS are going to freak out the moment we are tied at halftime with a lesser opponent. Nothing more, nothing less. And if you bothered to read any of my other 1,500 posts, you would have noticed that I am as about as positive as they come, but you're big bad Dean-O and have your mind made up.

You write and sound like some sort of SNL character. And yes, I feel better. I had my popsicle.
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I am glad you are feeling better. Why bring up the character of our board and the history of our fans being a bunch of downers at the first mishandled pass, etc.?

As for my made up mind, I have a point of view and on occasion I change my mind on matters.

As for the SNL thing, all I can say is that Al Franken and I have had occasion to eat lunch together. And as a matter of course, I am the kind of guy that when I get in your face, you will hate me. But, when you need somebody on your side, I am also that guy. In between those moments... be prepared for some "character" laughs.


In Minnesota we are winners...
 



Dean S said:
In the immortal words of George Patton, planning creates the opportunities for victory.
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Please cite. Hell, it doesn't even show up on http://www.generalpatton.com/quotes/

Dean S said:
3rd Army pivots to Bastogne effectively because they planned for that contingency PRIOR to the German offensive. Not by breaking codes and knowing it was coming but by thinking about all types of problems and putting in the effort to know how to counter that play.
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Look...I get it. I conduct seminars to thousands of people each year, and I truly believe that bringing history into the discussion adds a certain frame of reference to better tell the story, but what the F are you trying to say with this?

Dean S said:
If the Gopher coaches don't have it in them to out plan the opposition...
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Didn't you state in your first paragraph that last year's Gophers "...were opportunistic, played within their game plan, and adjusted to game conditions." You can't have it both ways by giving them credit for game planning, and just throw it out there that the "If they...don't have it in them". Your first statement implies that they are proven.

I can't even figure out what the hell you were trying to say in the last few sentences.
 

User,

What I am trying to say is that in any given game, game adjustments are part of the larger playbook that is already rehearsed and known by the players. You might game plan with A, B, and C plays and have also rehearsed D, E, and F not included in the game plan. Game day arrives and B and C are not working well. But, E and F are known alternatives to B and C plays. You then include E and F plays to see if that overcomes the holdup. There are really no alterations to a game plan that were not already thought about and planned.

Patton was able to pivot to the Ardennes in 3 days because it was already planned for beginning on December 12th at his insistence to his staff planners based on a hunch that the Germans would have an offensive through the Ardennes. The German Ardennes offensive started on the 19th. Patton's 3rd Army was able to counterattack swiftly because the play was already on the books and fully planned down to the last drop of gasoline and artillery pre-planned firing point. When Ike asked who could relieve Bastogne, Patton and his staff had a full plan because Gen. Patton had already put that in the contingency file. The demand of creating extra plans creates opportunity to quickly adjust when necessary.

If Jerry Kill does not commit to planning for the next contingency, then the Gophers will lose games to the coach who does plan for all necessary contingencies. So, my when I said if they don't have it in them stands logically. You can not truly change game day plans on the fly. The reality is you can draw upon what has already been rehearsed and nothing else. If you do draw up plans on the fly, it is a risky venture rife with the opportunity to be exploited for unforeseen weakness or poor execution.

As Jerry Kill and the staff have been around for a while with the team, I fully expect the team be able to execute more than the A, B, and C plan and do have available to them the D, E, and F plays as well since they have been seen for the last few years. Thus, the game plan of plays, if not working, is not a disaster. The team has enough experience to pull from more than the game day plan.
 

I've noticed that this coaching staff not only has a game plan, but they even call plays once the game has started. The players even seem to make adjustments during plays. Very amazing stuff!
 

I think the difference you will see this year more then any other is player leaders making sure the team is prepared and making adjustments in the game. It's also their job to kick you in the ass if you aren't doing your job.

I think Kill has created that culture- he stated it in his presser yesterday.

The non-conference is always a challenge because you are generally playing teams that are looking at your game as maybe their "game of the year" and puts everything they can out there for that. While the Gophers are just trying to get more reps, decrease miscues and most importantly stay healthy.
Putting teams away early is all about confidence-who has it? I always loved to sock the guy in front of me in the helmet on the very first play as hard as I could. Play two told me how the game was going to go. How do you respond? I am starting to see a difference in our Gophers!
 

only 5-6 yrs ago you would see a MN DB shoulder shrugging -look at the sidelines coach as the ball was being snapped. Same season, the MN QB would run the 3rd and short play and throw his hands up as the play predictably failed. plays still fail but we no longer see that look of being totally lost. that is my takeaway from the last 2 years.
 

Dean S said:
User,

What I am trying to say is that in any given game, game adjustments are part of the larger playbook that is already rehearsed and known by the players. You might game plan with A, B, and C plays and have also rehearsed D, E, and F not included in the game plan. Game day arrives and B and C are not working well. But, E and F are known alternatives to B and C plays. You then include E and F plays to see if that overcomes the holdup. There are really no alterations to a game plan that were not already thought about and planned.

Patton was able to pivot to the Ardennes in 3 days because it was already planned for beginning on December 12th at his insistence to his staff planners based on a hunch that the Germans would have an offensive through the Ardennes. The German Ardennes offensive started on the 19th. Patton's 3rd Army was able to counterattack swiftly because the play was already on the books and fully planned down to the last drop of gasoline and artillery pre-planned firing point. When Ike asked who could relieve Bastogne, Patton and his staff had a full plan because Gen. Patton had already put that in the contingency file. The demand of creating extra plans creates opportunity to quickly adjust when necessary.

If Jerry Kill does not commit to planning for the next contingency, then the Gophers will lose games to the coach who does plan for all necessary contingencies. So, my when I said if they don't have it in them stands logically. You can not truly change game day plans on the fly. The reality is you can draw upon what has already been rehearsed and nothing else. If you do draw up plans on the fly, it is a risky venture rife with the opportunity to be exploited for unforeseen weakness or poor execution.

As Jerry Kill and the staff have been around for a while with the team, I fully expect the team be able to execute more than the A, B, and C plan and do have available to them the D, E, and F plays as well since they have been seen for the last few years. Thus, the game plan of plays, if not working, is not a disaster. The team has enough experience to pull from more than the game day plan.
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And what I was saying was that you appeared to give Kill and staff credit in past years for making in game adjustments, which could be read to be the same as having a contingency plan in place. Then you state that "If the Gopher coaches don't have it in them to out plan the opposition..." which can be read as you believe that they would not have a contingency plan ready, and that seems to be contradictory.

And while searching for the "immortal words" of Patton (which I can't find anywhere), I tried to find an online version of a certain book that contains a picture of my father at the Battle of the Bulge. I don't believe that Patton had a contingency for the situation my father found himself int. Our family only has one copy of the book, and my brother has possession of it and lives out-state. During a clean up of towns as the Bulge was winding down, my father's unit was going town to town, with tanks just blowing up houses, and my father (among others) was tasked with entering the homes before destruction to make sure there were no injured Allies taking shelter in the homes. He entered a home, and 20 armed German soldiers immediately dropped their weapons and surrendered to him. They knew what was up, and just wanted to get out alive. My father's sidearm was still in it's holster.

But I did stumble upon this quote from a book discussing that battle: "Air Chief Marshal Tedder, the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander, and a number of others on the SHAEF staff feared that the impetuous Patton would persuade Bradley to let him start the counterattack from the south with only a couple of divisions and that it then would develop piecemeal, as had the German counterattack in Normandy, without a solid tactical base or concrete result. The Supreme Commander himself was well aware of the Third Army commander's penchant for cut and thrust tactics and probably needed little urging to take some action calculated to hold Patton within the constraints of "the big picture."" This does not necessarily refute your post, I just found it interesting.

Look, I value your opinions (some of them, at least :)), and I'm not trying to throw an "I told you so" in your face, because I didn't tell you anything. I am simply stating that it is my belief that your opinion of Kill and contingency plans showed some inconsistencies.
 

Wow... I read this thread at first completely thinking DeanS was being a dick, but his post at the top of this page is actually quite factual and relevant.

Per usual, he's got a good point, just used some questionable methods in the beginning of this thread in articulating that point.

I also can read through to the core of what BarnBoy was getting at and I think his analysis has some merit, the editorial might have been misguided.

/adjurned
 


STPGopher said:
Brewster (IIRC) Used to say(Paraphrasing big time here) you want to take your team from losing big to losing little and winning by a little to mostly winning by a little and occasionally winning big to ultimately mostly winning by big margins.
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I'm almost positive that was Kill.
 

Is it cool to use my Halo experience and link videos from Red vs Blue to prove my point?
 

I expect the conference games to be generally close. But, it would make me very happy if Gopher fans did NOT have to sweat out any close games in non-conf. (w/exception of TCU). The other 3 non-conf games, I want to see the Gophs blow people out - win by the biggest margin possible - and get the backups playing time in game conditions. In a perfect world, Streveler would play the entire 4th quarter in 3 of the 4 non-conf games. If I'm biting my nails and swearing at the TV in the 4th quarter of a non-conf game, that's not a good omen for the conference season.
 

A couple of things...

The analysis, albeit not too bad on the surface, doesn't take into consideration the uncertainty at the QB position for the last 3 years. This will essentially be the first year, as it seems right now, that the Gophers enter the season with ONE unquestioned QB leading this team.

Secondly, I think the analysis/conclusion would carry a lot more weight if we were looking at Years 8, 9, and 10 of the program, not the first several years of a building process.

Lastly, and most notably to me, is the fact that in most NC games, the overmatched opponent usually knows that one of the only chances they have at pulling the upset is to throw some things out there that hadn't been seen before on tape by the Gophers during prep. I know the first UNLV game in particular, off the top of my head, that's exactly what happened; UNLV came out with a variety of things on both sides of the ball that they'd never shown before.

I've actually been VERY happy with how the staff has responded to this in general over the years, making halftime adjustments, and taking care of business in the second half. In the last couple years, I can't recall too many games in which they've been outcoached/outplayed significantly in the second half of games.

On a related note... Watching ESPN a little yesterday, I caught a little bit of an interview with TCU head coach Patterson. From what I could gather (correct me if I'm wrong?), they have a couple of new coaches on the offensive side of the ball, perhaps even a new OC; With TCU having an early bye week before their opening game against Samford and the Gophers game, Claeys and staff won't exactly have a lot to go off of to prepare the Gophers defense for that one. I would expect the Horded Frog offense to have some success early. Something to watch for...
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This will essentially be the first year, as it seems right now, that the Gophers enter the season with ONE unquestioned QB leading this team.
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Entering the season last year, there was no question as to who the QB was. It was the same the year before.
 

This team is better than last years...significantly better. The game plan will be the same. The results will be different. This year instead of running and running and passing to save a first down, it will be running and running and passing to hurt 'em. Instead of hanging in there in the first half and not beating ourselves, we will be dominating and breaking them down.

Count on it. This is a bigger, stronger, faster, deeper and nastier team. It has field leadership that doesn't wanna win they wanna inflict some hurt.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Entering the season last year, there was no question as to who the QB was. It was the same the year before.
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Doll nailed it. i sometimes post total garbage but how anyone could act as though this yr is more settled at qb than the past 2 is a little witless.
 

If we win close games, I'm not going to find that agonizing. I'll save agony for losses. In 2007, we only had one win, and that was an ugly win that that, but it would have been a waste to agonize over it.
 

ncgo4 said:
Count on it. This is a bigger, stronger, faster, deeper and nastier team. It has field leadership that doesn't wanna win they wanna inflict some hurt.
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Agree, but without major improvement from the QB position it doesn't matter.
 

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