Paterno to have new statue in state college

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I am certain all those boys who got raped while he protected his buddy will really appreciate it.
 


Joe's silence was appalling. No one can dispute that, but two points:

1.) The town is doing this, not Penn State. So harboring ill-will against the program is off-base.

2.) As awful as his silence was, I'm not going to remember Joe Paterno for his shortcomings, albeit in this case a rather awful one. He still leaves behind a great legacy in many other respects. I expect someday that Penn State will put a statue up of him, and again I won't object. You can argue that his major omission outweighs the good, and that's fine. I just won't hold it against those who wish to remember his long, and in many ways good, tenure at Penn State.

Rip away.
 


hyaluronic said:
Joe's silence was appalling. No one can dispute that, but two points:

1.) The town is doing this, not Penn State. So harboring ill-will against the program is off-base.

2.) As awful as his silence was, I'm not going to remember Joe Paterno for his shortcomings, albeit in this case a rather awful one. He still leaves behind a great legacy in many other respects. I expect someday that Penn State will put a statue up of him, and again I won't object. You can argue that his major omission outweighs the good, and that's fine. I just won't hold it against those who wish to remember his long, and in many ways good, tenure at Penn State.

Rip away.
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+1
 

hyaluronic said:
1.) The town is doing this, not Penn State. So harboring ill-will against the program is off-base.
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Not necessarily. The people of the town are obviously big fans of Penn St. So I think it's understandable to want the team to do bad just to piss off those who are supporting Paterno no matter what.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Not necessarily. The people of the town are obviously big fans of Penn St. So I think it's understandable to want the team to do bad just to piss off those who are supporting Paterno no matter what.
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So it's about spite towards people who want to support Joe Paterno? Should we also shun those who support the individuals in the town who support Penn State? It seems like an infinite regress of blame and shame.

Look, I get it. The people who held candle vigils outside of JoePa's home after everything didn't get it. They were blinded by their loyalty and support of the program. Are some of those same people involved in this? Absolutely. I just don't think it is necessary to trample on the legacy of a man who did much good over a long period of time. I can't, nor will I ever condone what happened in Happy Valley. It is a great opportunity to shed light on a terrible problem. It is a great opportunity to raise awareness of what we ought to do if anyone is ever confronted with a similar scenario. It is not necessary to ignore the many other good aspects that Joe Paterno embodied.

Again, if anyone thinks that Joe Pa's reputation is completely tarnished because of this, I get it. I just won't object to those who want to remember the good. I'll remember Joe Pa as a generally good man, with great shorcomings. If I had my life to live over again up to this point, I would change my reaction to a number of situations. I suspect that if Joe Paterno could redo this scenario, he would too. Unfortunately (well, actually fortunately,) he never had the chance to show everyone that he would.
 

Note to jock sniffers---you can win a million football games, and if you turn a blind eye to child molestation, you still are a bad person. A really bad person. The fact that people won't let a mostly good guy die in peace is sad. Plus side, won football games. Down side, may have been complicit in anal rape of children. I hope you all have little boys someday. And are willing to sacrifice them to the program. Because there will be people putting up a statue, in your home town, of the man who should have known better, but chose the health of your football program over the justice if your child. This is really an insult to every victim of Sandusky. No statues, no glory. College football is not important we can say, well a couple of children were molested.
 



saintpaulguy said:
Note to jock sniffers---you can win a million football games, and if you turn a blind eye to child molestation, you still are a bad person. A really bad person. The fact that people won't let a mostly good guy die in peace is sad. Plus side, won football games. Down side, may have been complicit in anal rape of children. I hope you all have little boys someday. And are willing to sacrifice them to the program.
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My argument has nothing to do with wins or losses. It has to do with the many young men that he coached to be better people, many of whom came from underprivileged situations. It's about his volunteerism and the good he imparted on the University and his community. It's that he did this for 40 (50?) plus years. I don't forgive him for his silence. I do recognize it as an opportunity to teach everyone that silence is unacceptable.
 

saintpaulguy said:
Note to jock sniffers---you can win a million football games, and if you turn a blind eye to child molestation, you still are a bad person. A really bad person. The fact that people won't let a mostly good guy die in peace is sad. Plus side, won football games. Down side, may have been complicit in anal rape of children. I hope you all have little boys someday. And are willing to sacrifice them to the program. Because there will be people putting up a statue, in your home town, of the man who should have known better, but chose the health of your football program over the justice if your child. This is really an insult to every victim of Sandusky. No statues, no glory. College football is not important we can say, well a couple of children were molested.
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You added to your post as I was replying - the latter part of your sentiment is valid. It sends a mixed signal. I'm not *FOR* a statue for those reasons. I'm not against it for the reasons stated previously.
 

Lets make this simple.

It's your kid that was anal-raped.

Do you support a statue for the rapist's enablers? Someone that knew?

It really is that simple. Many people have limited empathy for the victims and/or misdirected empathy for the perpetrators.

As the old saw goes, no man is as good or as bad as we think. Doesn't excuse Paterno. Lots of coaches are successful and philanthropic while simultaneously not enabling child rape.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Lets make this simple.

It's your kid that was anal-raped.

Do you support a statue for the rapist's enablers? Someone that knew?

It really is that simple. Many people have limited empathy for the victims and/or misdirected empathy for the perpetrators.

As the old saw goes, no man is as good or as bad as we think. Doesn't excuse Paterno. Lots of coaches are successful and philanthropic while simultaneously not enabling child rape.
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Again, I don't support it. I'm not saying we ought to build a statue. I just won't oppose it.

If it was my kid, would I feel differently? Probably. As for the public perspective, my personal feelings shouldn't dictate what others do. Should it be a consideration? Yes. And as of now, we don't see Penn State erecting a statue, and I assume it is due to that reason.
 



So, instead of the old statue facing east, this one will just be looking the other way?
 

Everything Paterno did good for 60 plus years is circumvented by the 10+ years he ignored a situation that seriously impacted numerous innocent kids and their families in ways many of us can't even comprehend. He did nothing because he was worried about the implications/impact the publicity would have on the football program, essentially saying 10 win seasons were more important than the innocent kids who were being prayed upon by a serial child molester utilizing PSU facilities and the football program as bait - all under Paterno's watch. And anybody who thinks Paterno didn't know what was going on is a complete fool - someone that ingrained in the institution knows about every rumor going around campus, especially anything involving the football program.

Any community that still wishes to celebrate such a person should be ashamed of itself. It seems even the University understands this.
 

I don't think Penn. St. fans or the University itself actually learned a damn thing. The NCAA is rolling back sanctions. This is disgraceful. If this situation occurred at the U of M, I'd be ready to burn the place down.
 

While how much Paterno knew may still be in question, there is no doubt that he knew what Sandusky was up to and did as much as he could to sit on it for more than a decade. Yet a large number of Penn Staters remain so in denial about what happened that they literally are blaming everyone except their precious school. So if State College wants to make a shrine to their football god, that's their right. It only reinforces what the rest of the world has come to see about folks in that town: That they're pathological in their support of all things Penn State and Paterno, regardless of what crimes were committed on their watch.

If you want to see how sick and twisted they are over there, check out their fan forums. It really is a revealing look into the levels of depravity some will go to in order to maintain their self-convinced utopian ideal.
 

The people are insane. I was recently in State College and in every business around the downtown area there was a sign that said "I Support Penn State Football."

They should have nuked the program out of existence
 

CrocShots said:
The people are insane. I was recently in State College and in every business around the downtown area there was a sign that said "I Support Penn State Football."

They should have nuked the program out of existence
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Yep. This is why they should have gotten the death penalty. Instead, the NCAA gave them some hard sanctions and began rolling them back immediately. I have no doubt in my mind that those initial sanctions were for face value only, and the NCAA planned to roll them back once the fire was put out the entire time.
 

It should be an abstract piece. Realism would not be relevant to JoPa. Maybe it should be shaped like a great big goose egg.
 



Gopherguy0723 said:
Yep. This is why they should have gotten the death penalty. Instead, the NCAA gave them some hard sanctions and began rolling them back immediately. I have no doubt in my mind that those initial sanctions were for face value only, and the NCAA planned to roll them back once the fire was put out the entire time.
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They got a slap on the wrist that was reduced to a finger wag.
 



Spoofin said:
You think?
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No Sh!t! He was God on campus and controlled everything. If he wanted action on something, it happened. In this case, he wanted no action and that is what happened. Spermos three monkeys says it all. Paterno should not be glorified by anyone or in anyway. Tikited is right that they got nothing more than a no, no, don't do it again. If Delany had any balls, he would have kicked them out of the B1G. There is no amount of restitution that could ever make it right for the victims but this would have sent a loud message that this sh!t will not be tolerated no matter the person or institution.
 

hyaluronic said:
So it's about spite towards people who want to support Joe Paterno? Should we also shun those who support the individuals in the town who support Penn State? It seems like an infinite regress of blame and shame.
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I think there's a lot of disgust because it seemed like many of the fans were worried way more about their coach than the kids who were molested. I get what you're saying, I just think it is understandable to dislike the program and fan base because of what all happened, that's all.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I think there's a lot of disgust because it seemed like many of the fans were worried way more about their coach than the kids who were molested. I get what you're saying, I just think it is understandable to dislike the program and fan base because of what all happened, that's all.
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No doubt. The way many PSU fans reacted to the situation was strange, it was very cult-like. They made it seem like JoePa was somehow a martyr in the whole ordeal. I wanted the program's penalties to be harsh in part because I felt some of their fans needed to learn a lesson.
 

MNGoldenGophers1 said:
No Sh!t! He was God on campus and controlled everything. If he wanted action on something, it happened. In this case, he wanted no action and that is what happened. Spermos three monkeys says it all. Paterno should not be glorified by anyone or in anyway. Tikited is right that they got nothing more than a no, no, don't do it again. If Delany had any balls, he would have kicked them out of the B1G. There is no amount of restitution that could ever make it right for the victims but this would have sent a loud message that this sh!t will not be tolerated no matter the person or institution.
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No.

The reactions of about every post in this thread are ridiculous, displaying gross lack of understanding of the situation involved.

There are few Penn Staters and few in State College who aren't ashamed of what happened in the Sandusky situation, few who aren't ashamed that more wasn't done by school officials. However, they largely tend to be educated about the subject, unlike most of the posters in this thread, obviously.

I think the irony here is the gross ignorance of those of you going over the top about this without knowing all (or most?) of the pertinent facts to the situation, while condemning an otherwise great person for his own ignorance. Unfortunately, hypocrisy is lost on the overly-emotional.
 

As I expected, many have made excellent points as to why Joe Paterno should have his memory completely tarnished. At this point, it seems no one is willing to state the rationale for why it shouldn't be. Since I have squarely dug myself in as the contrarian opinion in the conversation, I may as well continue. I'll try do so while clarifying my position.

Again, I am not in favor of the statue. And if we're talking about how Sandusky ought to be viewed in all of this, and what his punishment should entail, I'd venture to guess my stance is more harsh than the majority of others. However, Paterno did not commit the atrocious acts, so I look at him differently.

Given that a few things come to my mind. First, Paterno did know that something was going on, and he didn't act appropriately. For that, he deserves incredible criticism. I don't think he knew the extent of what he was covering up. I think he was in denial of the magnitude of what could be happening. I think he was growing senile. In fact, many people have argued over the last decade that he was more a figurehead than an actual coach, granted, he still weld much power. He was born in a generation that was not as up-front with these sorts of issues, where problems were dealt with in-house and in private. He came from a generation that less recognized the severity of abuse, whether it be mental, physical or sexual.

That said, none of this exonerates him. Any discussion of Joe Paterno's career ought to include his great omission. His legacy is deservedly tarnished. And anyone who wants to engage in a conversation about the good he did, has to also be willing to discuss that in the most important decision(s) of his life, involving the well-being of children, he acted in the worst possible way. I'm just not going to be up-in-arms about someone who wants to remember the long duration of his career where he had a positive impact on those around him.
 

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