All Things 2014-2015 Roster

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scools12 said:
Talk about making assumptions.

You are making an assumption that the players on the roster after next year won't be as good or better than those leaving. Another assumption that if the team doesn't make the NCAA Tourney next year that at best the following year the team will be on the bubble again.

Let things such as how the roster is shaped over the next couple of seasons play themselves out before worrying how scary it looks.
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I have basically the same assumptions. It's a fan board we offer our opinions. Doesn't mean they are going to come true, doesn't mean they won't.
 

scools12 said:
Talk about making assumptions.

You are making an assumption that the players on the roster after next year won't be as good or better than those leaving. Another assumption that if the team doesn't make the NCAA Tourney next year that at best the following year the team will be on the bubble again.

Let things such as how the roster is shaped over the next couple of seasons play themselves out before worrying how scary it looks.
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Sure, but I think his central assumption is pretty reasonable. Pitino does need to maximize results for the upcoming season because 1) the experience level of the players will drop off considerably after and 2) he probably will not be able to recruit at the higher levels of the conference for at least a couple of years and 3) the best point guard in some time will be gone and there is no guarantee that his successor will come close to matching him. An NIT championship in his first year and an NCAA tournament birth (preferably with one win anyway) in his second should give him some breathing room for a rebuilding year or two.
 

MadtownGopher said:
With all of the Carlos Morris speculation, I was inspired to go back and read comments about Mathieu before he played his first game for us. Specifically I read the thread about him being MVP in a scrimmage. gopherhoopsguy was the first to predict he would be our best player. Quite the prediction, kudos to him. To no surprise The-Real-Truth was a hater from the start, claiming people were only optimistic because they hated Tubby and loved Richard.

I also found this gem from Howieanna while checking some preseason posts suggesting Buggs would never become a valuable player.
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Thanks madtown for giving me credit.. I did believe this from the get go. It was such a position of weakness for us. I just love this kids game. I look for him to be all big ten next year.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Dude, you need to settle down. Who is to say (other than Howieanna) Mason, Martin, and Morris can't compete with MSU, Michigan, and Ohio State recruits? You seem to be too fixated on recruiting rankings. Our best player last year was hardly ranked at all. And just because Pitino doesn't get a 4 or 5 star player by 2015 (and I think he will!), doesn't mean he won't get one ever. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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+1. People put way to much stock into recruiting rankings. I decided to look at the top players in the conference out of curiousity:

1st team All B1G:

Roy Devyn Marble: 3*
Nik Stauskas: 4*
Gary Harris: 5*
Terran Petteway: 3*
Frank Kaminsky: 3*

2nd team All B1G:

Yogi Ferrel: 4*
Caris LeVert: 2*
DJ Newbill: 3*
Adreian Payne: 4*
Sam Dekker: 5*

3rd team All B1G:

Noah Vonleh: 5*
Aaron White: 3*
Aaron Craft: 3*
LaQuinton Ross: 4*
Tim Frazier: 3*

Totals:

5* - 3 (Harris, Dekker, Vonleh)
4* - 4 (Stauskas, Ferrell, Payne, Ross)
3* - 7 (Marble, Petteway, Kaminsky, Newbill, White, Craft, Frazier)
2* - 1 (LeVert)

Over half of the conference's top players were 2 or 3 star recruits. So in my opinion it's a little ridiculous to say that Pitino MUST have several 4/5 star players inked by 2015 or we'll remain in the middle of the conference.
 

Golden_Sloth said:
Over half of the conference's top players were 2 or 3 star recruits. So in my opinion it's a little ridiculous to say that Pitino MUST have several 4/5 star players inked by 2015 or we'll remain in the middle of the conference.
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Yes, and there really aren't that many 5 star players coming to the conference anyway to make a huge impact. By the rating sources I reviewed, Dekker was a 4 star so I'm not sure he was even a consensus five star player. I would also say that likely top ten lottery pick Vonleh was a bit of a disappointment as a freshman and probably didn't deserve to make 3rd team.

Another piece of evidence indicating that high school ratings are an imperfect predictor is that Iowa has two 3 star players on an All Big Ten team while its two 4 star players (Gesell and Woodbury) had disappointing seasons. Woodbury has been outplayed by Iowa's unranked Gabe Olaseni through most of his career so far.
 


cjbfbp said:
Yes, and there really aren't that many 5 star players coming to the conference anyway to make a huge impact. By the rating sources I reviewed, Dekker was a 4 star so I'm not sure he was even a consensus five star player. I would also say that likely top ten lottery pick Vonleh was a bit of a disappointment as a freshman and probably didn't deserve to make 3rd team.

Another piece of evidence indicating that high school ratings are an imperfect predictor is that Iowa has two 3 star players on an All Big Ten team while its two 4 star players (Gesell and Woodbury) had disappointing seasons. Woodbury has been outplayed by Iowa's unranked Gabe Olaseni through most of his career so far.
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That's a great point about the Big Ten not getting a lot of 5*'s. There are still quite a few in the conference who haven't really lived up to expectations though - Robinson, Dawson, Hollowell... a lot of 4*s too.

It would be interesting to add in some other conferences that get more high end players and see what happens. But even so, it shows that many of the top players in our conference weren't highly touted out of high school, so I think it's still untrue to say that Pitino needs to get top tier recruits by 2015 to be successful.

Re Dekker - there were quite a few players like that who were boarderline. I tried to use the 247 composite rankings when possible to get a fair rating, and that had him as a 5*. Stauskas and Craft were both boarderline 3/4 stars.
 

Golden_Sloth said:
Over half of the conference's top players were 2 or 3 star recruits. So in my opinion it's a little ridiculous to say that Pitino MUST have several 4/5 star players inked by 2015 or we'll remain in the middle of the conference.
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And nearly half were 4/5 players. And 5 out of the 7 came from the programs whose level we want to get to. People who would have wet their pants if Jones, Travis, or Vaughn had signed here are arguing vociferously now stars don't matter. By the way, I said if he got an (singular for the reading impaired) elite recruit for 2015 I'd be more confident and now it's changed to he's got to get several or we'll stay mediocre?. I don't really expect a one and done everyone is chasing, but you need a solid all-conference type recruit and, despite cherry-picking all-conference teams and ratings, odds are better if more people are impressed with the kid coming out of high school. Bo, for all the praise about his 3 star types, wouldn't be in the position he's in now if he wouldn't have had those 4 star players sprinkled in among his teams those previous years. Pitino has momentum now; I'd really like to see him capitalize on it so we can be in the hunt for a conference championship instead of sitting on the bubble year after year. My opinion he can get us into that hunt, but he needs to get someone that the Izzo and Ryan types really want. Not sure how that opinion has been twisted into a pro or anti Pitino debate. (What's ironic is I'll bet damn near everyone of you arguing about the ratings follow recruiting and speculate on whom we can get a hell of a lot more than I do.)
 

GameDay said:
As it stands right now, my rotation would look like this.

PG- Dre Mathieu
SG- Andre Hollins
SF- Carlos Morris
PF- King/Martin (interchangeable as of now IMO)
C- Mo Walker

Bench-
G1- Nate Mason
G2- Daquien McNeil
F1- King/Martin (whoever doesn't start)
F2- Charles Buggs
F3- Djuan Piper
C- Elliot Eliason
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I think this is about right. I would say



Pg. Mathieu - Mason
Sg. Hollins - McNeil
F. Morris - Piper? - Buggs
PF. King - Martin - Buggs
C. Walker - Eliason - Konate?

Perhaps a senior transfer to throw a big twist in this line up

I want to see King put on muscle. I think he will play more when we want to stretch the opponents D with his shot. Martin will play more when we need an athlete to go bang the boards. One thing for sure, Martin will bring some attitude and swagger.

It would be cool to see Buggs put on some weight too and make some noise.

Need another big or two as there will be a huge hole to fill when walker and Eliason graduate.

It will be nice to see more depth.
 

I think the perfect recruit to get are guys that are ranked around where Dre Hollins and Trever Mbakwe were rated. Guys who are in the top 100, but will stay for four years or get guys who are on the fringe like a Nate Mason or how Mo Walker and Joe Coleman were, if a coach can consistently pull in those types of recruits and hang on to them they'll have a good program.
 



I'm guessing we will bring in another walk on as well to go with Shell, it be nice if that kid was Minnesotan. I don't care where are scholarship players come from, but I think it would be good for the program to have a walk on from in state. This state has so many good D2 and D3 schools you'd think thered be one freshman going to those type of schools that would want to walk on here
 

I agree with parts of what you said here, but I'm confused as to why you're so offended by him saying dude.

Mulligan said:
Um, first, not a dude. And I don't need to settle down either just because I'm tired of you chiming in incessantly on damn near every thread when you have no more clue than anyone else. You have no problem belittling guys working their butts off for the Gophers; yet, you pass yourself off as this devoted fan. You're one of the guys who made me decide to stop reading game threads when the game was still being played. Feel silly over-reacting to you when I should just ignore you but you're like some pesky fly just buzzing around annoying me.

Not sure if it's a reading problem, and you make a lot of assumptions, but I'll try. "Define a legacy" is like establishing a reputation since that is how Pitino will be remembered here. He's had a hell of a two good first years as a head coach, and has got me really excited about what he may do. However, he's got to keep the momentum going and that is tough in this league. Selection Sunday and others, who actually know what they're talking about, think next year's squad might not make the NCAA again. You look at who we lose next year and the gap between those players and who is left becomes pretty scary. If the Gophers aren't in next year, they're on the bubble again at best the following year. Then the buzz is starting to die off, the snipers start showing up, it's harder to recruit who you really want, the as*holes in the media start really making fun of Pitino, etc. Do I know this will happen? Unlike you, of course not. But I've been a Gopher fan since the early 60's (which is why I'm not a dude, dude) and I know how things work not only here, but in college sports in general.

There's a door the hot young coach has to step through to get to the top or else his career gets bogged down. That door is basically the 15-16 and the 16-17 seasons (even more so). That's why the next recruiting class is so critical. I'm hopeful, but anyone who thinks this years recruits with who's in the current freshman and sophomore classes are competing for a title in two years is a delusional idiot. Not hung up on ratings, but the plucky Gopher squad beating Izzo's boys and the like scenario doesn't do much for me. They may do it a couple times a year like this year, but it's not going to happen on a consistent basis.

So, first, nobody said Pitino has only 3 years. I'm looking down the road the next three years after that. Second, not hung up on ratings, but if you want the program to get to the top, better players are needed. Every year you don't get to or near the top makes it that much more probable you don't get there. You don't outcoach Izzo, Belein, Matta, Ryan, etc. game in and game out without players as good as theirs at playing your system. Just because you keep coming up with all sorts of improbable BS, doesn't mean anything. Anyone with any actual insight only has to look at Tubby's career here to see the pitfalls. That arc is repeated over and over everywhere: initial excitement, great optimism, bad luck, disappointing season or two, criticism, recruiting drops off, disillusionment, wish for a change. I really think Pitino can avoid that, but I have no assurances. Unlike someone who addresses people as "dude" and thinks he has all the answers, I know things ain't that easy.
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That part of the post stood out to me as well. We're losing ONE significant player this year. There are so many players that are more likely to get better by next year than get worse. The potential is there with... I hate to say it... Badger-like improvement in certain players. I hate myself for saying that.

scools12 said:
Talk about making assumptions.

You are making an assumption that the players on the roster after next year won't be as good or better than those leaving. Another assumption that if the team doesn't make the NCAA Tourney next year that at best the following year the team will be on the bubble again.

Let things such as how the roster is shaped over the next couple of seasons play themselves out before worrying how scary it looks.
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No surprise here with your negative assumptions. I can't imagine it's really that fun for you to follow the Gophers unless you're just one of those people who likes being negative because you find it fun to complain... kinda like most MN sports writers.

howieramone said:
I have basically the same assumptions. It's a fan board we offer our opinions. Doesn't mean they are going to come true, doesn't mean they won't.
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No idea how anyone develops over the off season. IMO, Buggs could be more than a role player next year. He gets stronger he could be very good. He has the length that would work well in this system.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Mulligan said:
And nearly half were 4/5 players. And 5 out of the 7 came from the programs whose level we want to get to. People who would have wet their pants if Jones, Travis, or Vaughn had signed here are arguing vociferously now stars don't matter. By the way, I said if he got an (singular for the reading impaired) elite recruit for 2015 I'd be more confident and now it's changed to he's got to get several or we'll stay mediocre?. I don't really expect a one and done everyone is chasing, but you need a solid all-conference type recruit and, despite cherry-picking all-conference teams and ratings, odds are better if more people are impressed with the kid coming out of high school. Bo, for all the praise about his 3 star types, wouldn't be in the position he's in now if he wouldn't have had those 4 star players sprinkled in among his teams those previous years. Pitino has momentum now; I'd really like to see him capitalize on it so we can be in the hunt for a conference championship instead of sitting on the bubble year after year. My opinion he can get us into that hunt, but he needs to get someone that the Izzo and Ryan types really want. Not sure how that opinion has been twisted into a pro or anti Pitino debate. (What's ironic is I'll bet damn near everyone of you arguing about the ratings follow recruiting and speculate on whom we can get a hell of a lot more than I do.)
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Calm down, there. I wasn't even responding to you. Just saying that I think we can be a successful team without recruiting a bunch of 4 and 5 *'s which I still believe is true.
 

StCroix said:
No idea how anyone develops over the off season. IMO, Buggs could be more than a role player next year. He gets stronger he could be very good. He has the length that would work well in this system.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I also believe Buggs can come back next season as a completely different player who becomes a big time player for us. But right now, he's just a raw player with great potential. If he wants to become a top player for a next year, he has to work the "rawness" out of his game and start to completely realize his potential. If he can improve as much as Mo did this offseason (except gain weight instead of losing it), we could be looking at a very special player next year.
 

EG#9 said:
A few thoughts on various discussions in this thread:

If Joey King is playing the 3, Coach Pitino is not going to be able to run the type of offense or defense he wants to run. Joey is not a good enough ball handler to play a wing spot for Pitino and he's not athletic enough to defend other teams 3's, especially in a pressure based defense. Pitino constantly brings up wanting to get more deflections defensively, you don't do that by playing Joey King at the 3. I would guess Pitino has given no more thought to playing King at the 3 than he has to playing Elliott and Mo together.

It's way too early to project where the Gophers are going to wind up in the B1G pecking order given all the uncertainties that surround their roster AND the rosters of other teams around the conference. The Gophers are going to add somewhere between 2-4 guys who are eligible to play next year and how 1-2 of those guys perform immediately will go a long way in to determining the Gophers ceiling. As it stands now, I feel like it's safe to say the Gophers will be deeper with Big Ten level athletes next year.

This summer is huge for Coach Pitino. It might not be fair, but that's a different argument. He will have 7-8 scholarships that will turn over by the end of next season. Ideally, the Gophers get a couple 2015 commitments this Summer and fill out the 2015 class before signing day in November. He really needs to land a minimum of 2 kids (out of those 7 scholarships) that project as big time players. The next 6-7 months is crucial for the future of Gopher Basketball under Coach Pitino and not a single game will be played during that time span. Momentum is so huge in college sports where kids almost always want to play for a. the consistent winner or b. the new hot program. Pitino has to make Minnesota part of group B , before he can get his program in to group A. Fans can look at things and say, "he's only had X number of years", but most recruits look and see, for example 2 NIT berths and one year of no post-season play and it becomes a really, really tough sell.

Coach Pitino has vastly exceeded my expectations as a game day coach in his first year. He found a way to be competitive in East Lansing, beat several ranked teams at home, and remained competitive (if not successful) when Andre Hollins went down. I thought year one would be quite a learning curve for a 31 year old with one year as a head coach in a minor conference under his belt. As for recruiting, getting Mathieu late in the process and at least getting on the radar of a number high profile 2014 kids were positive steps.

I think we're in very good hands with Coach Pitino, but every coach needs players. I hope he'll find a way to get the talent he needs, but I can't assure anyone that will happen, just as nobody can assure me he won't.
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Agree with most of what you say, but confused where you got 7-8 scholarships that turnover. Are you counting the 4 from this year (Austin, Mav, Malik, and Oto) with the 4 seniors next year? I expect Pitino to go after 1 senior transfer, giving 5 empty scholarships for 2015.

Also, OP you missed Malik on your "Graduating/Out" list.
 




Remember lots of highly ranked 247 players left early for the NBA.

Oladipo, Zeller, Burke, Hardaway JR, Sullinger, Morris, Leonard, would likely make up most of the first and second team had they not left early. All the best teams seem to have a mixture of McDonald All american (5*) plus other top 50-100 4 year players that develop, while admitting some of those don't develop either. Anyway only schools that aren't successful with the top recruits say rankings don't matter. It is not an exact science but the odds of a player developing into stars, see Kentucky, are much higher with 5* guys. Louisville won last year with nary a 5* but it happens a lot less than you think. Napier, Daniels, and Boatright were all 4 star for uconn, while Kentucky is overloaded with 5* guys: Poythress, Randle, Young, Harrison x2, D. Johnson. So Pitino either has to recruit a 5* pretty often, or count on a 3 or 4 * developing. Remember for every 3 or 4 * who make all conference how many didn't. Yet when looking at 5* its probably half that do when they stay more than 1 year. When someone isn't a 5* usually it's either about athletism or skills, players who stay 4 years can work on both to overcome them.

Golden_Sloth said:
+1. People put way to much stock into recruiting rankings. I decided to look at the top players in the conference out of curiousity:

1st team All B1G:

Roy Devyn Marble: 3*
Nik Stauskas: 4*
Gary Harris: 5*
Terran Petteway: 3*
Frank Kaminsky: 3*

2nd team All B1G:

Yogi Ferrel: 4*
Caris LeVert: 2*
DJ Newbill: 3*
Adreian Payne: 4*
Sam Dekker: 5*

3rd team All B1G:

Noah Vonleh: 5*
Aaron White: 3*
Aaron Craft: 3*
LaQuinton Ross: 4*
Tim Frazier: 3*

Totals:

5* - 3 (Harris, Dekker, Vonleh)
4* - 4 (Stauskas, Ferrell, Payne, Ross)
3* - 7 (Marble, Petteway, Kaminsky, Newbill, White, Craft, Frazier)
2* - 1 (LeVert)

Over half of the conference's top players were 2 or 3 star recruits. So in my opinion it's a little ridiculous to say that Pitino MUST have several 4/5 star players inked by 2015 or we'll remain in the middle of the conference.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>What the??...this is crazy...I can't even believe the news I'm hearing</p>— Mo Walker (@BigggMo) <a href="https://twitter.com/BigggMo/statuses/455421544211435520">April 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>This is crazy...</p>— Mo Walker (@BigggMo) <a href="https://twitter.com/BigggMo/statuses/455421988027133953">April 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Let the speculation begin! ;)
 

Best case scenario: The players were shown drawings of the the practice facility.

Worst case scenario: Pitino is already leaving for another job.

:D

Most likely scenario: Has absolutely nothing to do with the team.
 

MadtownGopher said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>What the??...this is crazy...I can't even believe the news I'm hearing</p>— Mo Walker (@BigggMo) <a href="https://twitter.com/BigggMo/statuses/455421544211435520">April 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>This is crazy...</p>— Mo Walker (@BigggMo) <a href="https://twitter.com/BigggMo/statuses/455421988027133953">April 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Let the speculation begin! ;)
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Well this is about to get good or bad and hilarious or perhaps sad
 


So the class breakdown now looks like this:

Seniors (4)
Walker
Eliason
Hollins
Mathieu

Juniors (2)
King
Morris

Sophomores (2)
Buggs
McNeil

Freshman (3)
Martin
Mason
Diedhiou

Two scholarships yet to fill.
 

beavergopher said:
They want Mo to put on 70 lbs in the offseason?
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This made laugh! I'm rolling with Richie to the T-Wolves and Tyus, Reid and Rashad all changed their minds and are coming to the Gophers! Buckle up ladies and germs...we could be visiting the Vu very shortly. I'm meeting Dr. Don at Sex world for the warm-up rounds.
 



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