Northwestern Players Want a Union

Donate To GopherHole


Dean S said:
Let's consider that the ruling had broader implications and that all scholarship athletes are on payroll at every institution. They would all be in breach of the NCAA rules and the NCAA would be forced to reform. Right now, the NCAA is trying to reform even though they: are fighting the ruling, and formed reform committees in the background to change the ground rules.

Fans are not going to disappear if the games get played on Saturday with or without a W2. They may end up looking less sharp than now, but then again, a few minor rule changes could still make the product very exciting.
Click to expand...

The ruling only gives the players a right to unionize, subject to certain future legal challenges. It places no mandate on the NCAA or any university to play ball with a union. Who would blink first?

The ONLY way a unionization effort can succeed is if it occurs on a large scale and involves the marquee programs. If that occurs what happens next if there are no restrictions on school transfers...leading to escalating payments to players to attract the best talent etc boggles the mind. It would be the end of the sport as we know it.

Luckily, the movement has no chance of success. Perhaps a wider public view of the situation will lead to a modest stipend increase for all scholarship students and more responsible management of the windfall from university leaders. Perhaps a cap and pay system/salary cap on coaches salary vs scholarships is in order...call me a dreamer
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The ruling only gives the players a right to unionize, subject to certain future legal challenges. It places no mandate on the NCAA or any university to play ball with a union. Who would blink first?

The ONLY way a unionization effort can succeed is if it occurs on a large scale and involves the marquee programs. If that occurs what happens next if there are no restrictions on school transfers...leading to escalating payments to players to attract the best talent etc boggles the mind. It would be the end of the sport as we know it.

Luckily, the movement has no chance of success. Perhaps a wider public view of the situation will lead to a modest stipend increase for all scholarship students and more responsible management of the windfall from university leaders. Perhaps a cap and pay system/salary cap on coaches salary vs scholarships is in order...call me a dreamer
Click to expand...

You missed the larger point. The ruling first stated they were employees. It makes it implicit that all scholarship athletes can be tested as employees. The precedent is set and the lawsuits will be flying over medical coverage for athletes regardless of insurance status as they are now employees. The courts will look at this as the basis of workers comp. The union issue is really secondary. They do not have to vote to become a union to start making demands of Northwestern. One of the principles of being an employee at will is that there is negotiation at will at any time. It also means that a player could walk into an office with a lawyer and say, "let's make a deal". It also means they can transfer to any other "employer" without limitation. No further rulings need to be made. The players are not bound by the NCAA as the NCAA can not play controller to labor.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The ruling only gives the players a right to unionize, subject to certain future legal challenges. It places no mandate on the NCAA or any university to play ball with a union. Who would blink first?

The ONLY way a unionization effort can succeed is if it occurs on a large scale and involves the marquee programs. If that occurs what happens next if there are no restrictions on school transfers...leading to escalating payments to players to attract the best talent etc boggles the mind. It would be the end of the sport as we know it.

Luckily, the movement has no chance of success. Perhaps a wider public view of the situation will lead to a modest stipend increase for all scholarship students and more responsible management of the windfall from university leaders. Perhaps a cap and pay system/salary cap on coaches salary vs scholarships is in order...call me a dreamer
Click to expand...

I don't think you get it.
 


Uh, what don't I get?

The first ruling was by a regional director, subject to overturn. Then if upheld up the chain, it will be further subjected to legal challenges. Until that process plays out NU does not need to negotiate with the players or union.

NU does not want to be in a position of being in violation of NCAA and NLRB rules. If, in the gory end they need to abide by NLRB they will be death penaltied by the NCAA.

Again, unless this becomes a national movement involving more private AND public schools it will not end well. This is a lose/lose.

What part don't I understand?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Uh, what don't I get?

The first ruling was by a regional director, subject to overturn. Then if upheld up the chain, it will be further subjected to legal challenges. Until that process plays out NU does not need to negotiate with the players or union.

NU does not want to be in a position of being in violation of NCAA and NLRB rules. If, in the gory end they need to abide by NLRB they will be death penaltied by the NCAA.

Again, unless this becomes a national movement involving more private AND public schools it will not end well. This is a lose/lose.

What part don't I understand?
Click to expand...

Too much to explain. There are multiple legal issues that you are either misinformed about or not considering. It would literally take too much time to explain for anyone to actually care about in a forum. Dean S did a great job of identifying one example.
 

Northwester players are speaking out against unionization. ""I'm treated far better than I deserve here,"- Trevor Siemian.
"I am not in favor. I don't think it's the right move for the team. ... Originally, whenever people signed the cards, it was done with the idea that this wasn't going to be Northwestern vs. Northwestern. We thought this would be Northwestern vs. NCAA. It turns out that's not what it was, and we have a lot of guys that are very opinionated about really defending our university. ... I support change, but not at the expense of the university."
-LB Collin Ellis

http://espn.go.com/chicago/college-...n-criticizes-former-qb-kain-colter-union-push
 

If you can't explain it then you don't understand it.

I think it is you that is mistaken. I am guessing you two are students?
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Uh, what don't I get?

The first ruling was by a regional director, subject to overturn. Then if upheld up the chain, it will be further subjected to legal challenges. Until that process plays out NU does not need to negotiate with the players or union.

NU does not want to be in a position of being in violation of NCAA and NLRB rules. If, in the gory end they need to abide by NLRB they will be death penaltied by the NCAA.

Again, unless this becomes a national movement involving more private AND public schools it will not end well. This is a lose/lose.

What part don't I understand?
Click to expand...

First, there is an order of precedence where the NLRB has real authority over the NCAA and NU in determining the status of the players. Two, the FLSA defines the conditions of what is an employee and the regional director set out clearly the requirements, the precedents and the situation that frames the issue at NU. And, he did so with significant clarity. The chance of this being overturned is negligible. As soon as the legal challenges end, and I am certain that the ruling will not be overturned in whole, and that the most substantial element is upheld -- the status of the students as employees -- then the whole gamut of employment law comes into play.

I would think that the NCAA would be in a very precarious position in that NU would still have a team with players that are identical in every way to other teams except in the accepted legal definition of the players. And, therefore any attempt to penalize NU from playing football within the NCAA would be viewed as an attempt at interference with the lawful actions of the school and the players. Since football is a form of trade, games are sold to the public and it has all the essential elements of a commercial product, like all professional sports, then the NCAA could not restrain the trade of the NU product. The NCAA should walk very carefully to not contractually, or through combination, or conspire through communication to its members to prohibit NU from playing football within the B!G or against any other traditional opponent. And, the ruling might give rise to some historical opponents like alumni teams. In fact, it might open up football games to all kinds of teams. The impact of this is so broad, it boggles the imagination.

I want to see it play out. Much good could result.
 

The NLRB only has precedence over private institutions. The public schools are a whole other ball of wax.

The decision by the NLRB regional officer contradicts existing case law stating student athletes are not employees. This is far from over.

You guys are assuming that the ruling will be upheld. That is very, very far from certain. If things were done in a reasonable manner we'd have universal health care in this country. We do not. Follow me?

The legal system is ripe for abuse and corruption. I think in a perfect world the revenue from college sports would be reinvested in education...we live in far from a perfect world. Watch what happens. I'm telling you, this will never happen.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Watch what happens. I'm telling you, this will never happen.
Click to expand...

A union for college athletes doesn't have to happen for the athletes to get most of what they want. The mere threat of a union and an avalanche of concussion lawsuits are going to change intercollegiate athletics in ways nobody can predict. One thing that is certain to happen is that college athletes will start receiving monthly stipends to reimburse them for their personal living expenses over and above what their scholarships provide. I believe this will happen within the next five years. I also think there will be more restrictions on a school's ability to take away an athlete's scholarship, fewer restrictions on an athlete's ability to transfer schools, and finally, more opportunity for athletes to pursue commercial opportunities in the same way pro athletes are able to do it. There are going to be huge changes in college sports in the next 5 to 10 years and there will be no stopping them. Fasten your seat belts.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The NLRB only has precedence over private institutions. The public schools are a whole other ball of wax.

The decision by the NLRB regional officer contradicts existing case law stating student athletes are not employees. This is far from over.

You guys are assuming that the ruling will be upheld. That is very, very far from certain. If things were done in a reasonable manner we'd have universal health care in this country. We do not. Follow me?

The legal system is ripe for abuse and corruption. I think in a perfect world the revenue from college sports would be reinvested in education...we live in far from a perfect world. Watch what happens. I'm telling you, this will never happen.
Click to expand...


So, you think the legal system is so incredibly corrupt and you think the Northwestern player's demand for a union will NEVER happen? Mr. Woody Guthrie could see people like you in the distance and his song about the UNION MAID told you that the common, decent, every day folks would stand strong against the anti-labor "big boys" that would attempt to shut the little Union Maid down and put the little folks in their place:

Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

"...There once was a union maid, she never was afraid
Of goons and ginks and company finks and the deputy sheriffs who made the raid.
She went to the union hall when a meeting it was called,
And when the Legion boys come 'round
She always stood her ground.

Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union, I'm sticking to the union.
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union 'til the day I die..."

Concussive injury threat has CHANGED the entire ball game...forever! College football AND the NCAA will get the message loud and strong. Even the nfl has put up over a billion dollars to begin to start dealing with this potentially game-ending crisis that the Medical World is now uncovering. The College kids pay a VERY heavy price so that the NCAA can make billions and the college prexys and athletic directors and the college football coaches can earn multi-million dollar salaries.

Note to the Northwestern PLAYERS WHO WANT TO UNIONIZE: Go U Northwestern! Don't let the "...goons, ginks and company finks..." scare you and NEVER let the ba$.ards get you down! You have GOT to look out for yourselves because the prexys, athletic directors, coaches who are all profiting from your efforts, sacrifices and injuries really do NOT have your back. The TV networks and play by play commenters get rich off you too. And while some of the fans "get it" the majority of fans will forget about you after your four or five years of playing time in the college ranks has expired and they move on to being obsessed with the new fantasy high school football recruiting rankings.

There is NO going back to the status quo for college football. There IS a price to pay for playing the game, and the world is just discovering what the price will be. That there is REAL danger is now known. The extent of the danger is just being discovered.
Heck: high school football may be in real trouble too.

They scoffed at Coal miners when they wanted to unionize for better working conditions. Black Lung Disease...mine-shaft disasters...too many widows were told they had no right to unionize for better health care, better working conditions and compensation for themselves and their orphans and widows when they were killed on the job.

G0 U Northwestern players who petition for the right to unionize! Stand your ground! Fight the good fight. Give 'em hell!
 




Indiana's Supreme Court already recognized the student athlete as employee in Fred W. RENSING, Appellant, v. INDIANA STATE UNIVERSITY BOARD OF TRUSTEES, Appellee.

That is one state that already recognizes scholarship athletes as employees. Rensing sustained an injury and sued for recognition as an employee to gain workers comp and won. It went to the Indiana Supreme court and the court agreed with the Indian Board, which has to follow the broadest basis of what an employee can be determined.

That term, "broadest basis" is common from coast to coast in employment law. It is as common as grass in a new suburban subdivision.

Those that want to believe this issue is going away are fools. History is not on their side. And, any naysayers have yet to offer evidence that this will be shoved under the NCAA rug by fiat, force or anything else.

The NCAA is an organization that has already been cited by the US Supreme Court as violating the Sherman Act, which stated in National College Athletic Association v Board of Regents, University of Oklahoma that the NCAA had tried to "restrain trade" in limiting television broadcast of games. The NCAA thought keeping games off the air would keep attendance high. Oklahoma and Georgia thought otherwise. In this ruling, the operative words are "restraint of trade" and that the product was "college football". This makes the college game a business entity and a private good. The whole "public" or "private" thing is just a non starter. That dog won't hunt at the US Supreme Court. Considering the composition of the current SCOTUS, gawd, I can just imagine how Scalia would view the whole NCAA!!! No love there for a bunch of academic purist protectionists against the free market crowd and liberals on the bench. Now that would be a coalition or unprecedented scale.

Go freaking nuts. I have at least a dozen other important case law rulings that are direct and germane. I can't wait for the lawyers to pipe up and say that my argument is nuts. But, I already have rulings that are prima-facie the determinants of how any future case will base its determinations. And, don't forget states are even more liberal in their definition of employees.

As to the BS that an employee is not an employee at private colleges is really funny. Each college football team trades on the open market ticket football games across state lines. And, as I already cited, the US Supremes already have ruled that the game of football is a traded business product and that restraining it is not in the interest of the public. Therefore, private colleges are not exempt, nor have they ever been exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act. If they sell more than 500,000 in ticket sales, they meet the definition of a business.

The issue isn't whether it is going to happen, the real issue is to what extent.
 

CBS: Document reveals Northwestern's anti-union dialogue with players

A school Q-and-A between Northwestern and players considering unionization reveals the Wildcats' anti-union talking points leading up to Friday's National Labor Relations Board vote.

Northwestern and coach Pat Fitzgerald tell players several times they would be "stuck" with a union if they vote to uphold last month's NLRB ruling to become employees, according to the internal document obtained by CBSSports.com.

The 21-page document, dated from April 1-6, includes 72 questions and answers broken down by four categories: Player Questions, Parent Questions, Staff Questions and Background Questions.

Northwestern, Fitzgerald and the school's legal team compiled the file to help inform players on their voting decision. Players, parents and staffers could submit questions in an anonymous drop box or through various forms of communication such as email, phone calls or in person. Most answers appear to be from Fitzgerald directly.

"This is not what we wanted," a player says, according to the document. "How can we get back to being students and not employees? Specifically student athlete status and not employees."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...rthwesterns-anti-union-dialogue-with-players-

Go Gophers!!
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom