Northwestern Players Want a Union

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Gopherguy0723 said:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...cats-football-players-trying-join-labor-union

This could be a major blow to the corrupt NCAA. The facade of amateurism is really starting to crumble. I hope the guys get certified.
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Huma told "Outside The Lines" that the move to unionize players at Northwestern started with quarterback Kain Colter, who reached out to him last spring and asked for help in giving athletes representation in their effort to improve the conditions under which they play NCAA sports. Colter became a leading voice in regular NCPA-organized conference calls among players from around the country.

In a Sept. 21 game against Maine, Colter wore a black wristband with the hashtag "#APU" -- All Players United -- prominently scrawled in white marker as part of a quiet protest gesture. He was joined that day by about 10 teammates as well as players from Georgia and Georgia Tech. In all, players on seven teams in the five largest conferences displayed the #APU symbol, according to the NCPA.

Huma said he met with Northwestern players over the weekend on campus in Evanston, Ill., and took the next step in creating a collective voice for players. He said Colter introduced him to groups of players that Colter had talked with over the past couple of months about their interest in taking the unprecedented step of asking for union representation.

Go Gophers!!
 

If they want to be employees, make them employees. Take away their scholarships, room and board, and everything else they are given. Pay them the same as other student workers. Heck, pay them twice as much. But you can only pay them for the hours actually worked. 1 hour lifting in the morning, 2-3 hour practice in the afternoon. When they are only working 6 months out of the year, getting taxed, paying for their own school/housing/food they will realize how sweet the actually have it.

If I could go to school again and get my entire schooling paid for AND my room, board AND spending money instead of paying for everything on my own and working my student job, I would do it in a heartbeat. No brainer. It just amazes me how some cannot grasp the concept of how great these kids have it. And those complaining that some aren't getting an education, that is the student-athletes' fault.
 

Why is it the NCAA's fault that someone else doesn't start a minor league?
 

DLguy said:
If they want to be employees, make them employees. Take away their scholarships, room and board, and everything else they are given. Pay them the same as other student workers. Heck, pay them twice as much. But you can only pay them for the hours actually worked. 1 hour lifting in the morning, 2-3 hour practice in the afternoon. When they are only working 6 months out of the year, getting taxed, paying for their own school/housing/food they will realize how sweet the actually have it.

If I could go to school again and get my entire schooling paid for AND my room, board AND spending money instead of paying for everything on my own and working my student job, I would do it in a heartbeat. No brainer. It just amazes me how some cannot grasp the concept of how great these kids have it. And those complaining that some aren't getting an education, that is the student-athletes' fault.
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word. If you think the union will be so much better, get a job playing football. I'm not sure how you can unionize in a non-job.
 


DLguy said:
If they want to be employees, make them employees. Take away their scholarships, room and board, and everything else they are given. Pay them the same as other student workers. Heck, pay them twice as much. But you can only pay them for the hours actually worked. 1 hour lifting in the morning, 2-3 hour practice in the afternoon. When they are only working 6 months out of the year, getting taxed, paying for their own school/housing/food they will realize how sweet the actually have it.

If I could go to school again and get my entire schooling paid for AND my room, board AND spending money instead of paying for everything on my own and working my student job, I would do it in a heartbeat. No brainer. It just amazes me how some cannot grasp the concept of how great these kids have it. And those complaining that some aren't getting an education, that is the student-athletes' fault.
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the argument isn't should student athletes be compensated. The argument is are college athletes fairly compensated as many football and basketball players bring in a lot more revenue for their school then their scholarship gives them
 

DLguy said:
If they want to be employees, make them employees. Take away their scholarships, room and board, and everything else they are given. Pay them the same as other student workers. Heck, pay them twice as much. But you can only pay them for the hours actually worked. 1 hour lifting in the morning, 2-3 hour practice in the afternoon. When they are only working 6 months out of the year, getting taxed, paying for their own school/housing/food they will realize how sweet the actually have it.

If I could go to school again and get my entire schooling paid for AND my room, board AND spending money instead of paying for everything on my own and working my student job, I would do it in a heartbeat. No brainer. It just amazes me how some cannot grasp the concept of how great these kids have it. And those complaining that some aren't getting an education, that is the student-athletes' fault.
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Yes, yes, yes. +infinity to all of this.

And they are free to unionize, but it's not a labor union, because they are not employees.
 

DLguy said:
If they want to be employees, make them employees. Take away their scholarships, room and board, and everything else they are given. Pay them the same as other student workers. Heck, pay them twice as much. But you can only pay them for the hours actually worked. 1 hour lifting in the morning, 2-3 hour practice in the afternoon. When they are only working 6 months out of the year, getting taxed, paying for their own school/housing/food they will realize how sweet the actually have it.

If I could go to school again and get my entire schooling paid for AND my room, board AND spending money instead of paying for everything on my own and working my student job, I would do it in a heartbeat. No brainer. It just amazes me how some cannot grasp the concept of how great these kids have it. And those complaining that some aren't getting an education, that is the student-athletes' fault.
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Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Yes, yes, yes. +infinity to all of this.

And they are free to unionize, but it's not a labor union, because they are not employees.
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And how are they going to pay union dues to run the union? Will the school have to pay that expense for them as well?
 



DLguy said:
If they want to be employees, make them employees. Take away their scholarships, room and board, and everything else they are given. Pay them the same as other student workers. Heck, pay them twice as much. But you can only pay them for the hours actually worked. 1 hour lifting in the morning, 2-3 hour practice in the afternoon. When they are only working 6 months out of the year, getting taxed, paying for their own school/housing/food they will realize how sweet the actually have it.

If I could go to school again and get my entire schooling paid for AND my room, board AND spending money instead of paying for everything on my own and working my student job, I would do it in a heartbeat. No brainer. It just amazes me how some cannot grasp the concept of how great these kids have it. And those complaining that some aren't getting an education, that is the student-athletes' fault.
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Twice as much as a student worker? Try 100x as much. Recruiting better athletes that win a couple extra games would be worth millions to any University. I don't think anyone cares how many hours Peyton Manning is putting in the weight room. He makes money based upon the 40 throws he makes on Sunday.

This isn't to say that I think this union effort is going anywhere. You have to attack things like Title IX first before achieving a free market in college athletics.
 


AO54 said:
Twice as much as a student worker? Try 100x as much. Recruiting better athletes that win a couple extra games would be worth millions to any University. I don't think anyone cares how many hours Peyton Manning is putting in the weight room. He makes money based upon the 40 throws he makes on Sunday.

This isn't to say that I think this union effort is going anywhere. You have to attack things like Title IX first before achieving a free market in college athletics.
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Then don't go to college. Go straight to the pros, or get your training somewhere else.
 

DLguy said:
Then don't go to college. Go straight to the pros, or get your training somewhere else.
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Literally anyone on Earth is free to start a minor league for players that can enter the league at 18 and would compete with the NCAA for players. Why has no one done it, ever, in the near-century since professional football came into existence?
 



AO54 said:
achieving a free market in college athletics
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Forcing the NCAA to operate their business in the way the government wants is the exact opposite of a free market. The way the NCAA currently runs things is about as close to a free market in college athletics as one will ever get.
 

DLguy said:
Then don't go to college. Go straight to the pros, or get your training somewhere else.
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In what way isn't D-1 football the pros? About a month ago we learned that the average football player at the U receives $200,000 a year in room and board, coaching, travel, education, clothing, equipment and the use of top notch athletic facilities. The American appetite for pro-football extends far beyond the NFL.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Forcing the NCAA to operate their business in the way the government wants is the exact opposite of a free market. The way the NCAA currently runs things is about as close to a free market in college athletics as one will ever get.
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Eliminating Title IX would be the opposite of force. The NCAA could continue to make rules about spending for non-revenue sports, but don't be surprised when schools and conferences drop out of the NCAA. The BCS schools already operate outside of the NCAA with the bowl system. They'll continue to chase the money.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Literally anyone on Earth is free to start a minor league for players that can enter the league at 18 and would compete with the NCAA for players. Why has no one done it, ever, in the near-century since professional football came into existence?
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The NCAA has a monopoly and the costs are extremely prohibitive. You'd need people with lots of money and an existing brand to even have a chance. Basically, the NFL would have to do it, but they have no incentive because they get the NCAA to work as a minor league with zero cost to the NFL's bottom line.

The world is changing, and the people are waking up to the folly of the NCAA.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
The NCAA has a monopoly
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Only because no one is willing to compete. That's not the NCAA's fault. Surely, if their business model is "folly", they'd have competitors lining up around the block. Why don't they?

Gopherguy0723 said:
the costs are extremely prohibitive
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DING DING DING. It costs a sh1t-ton of money to educate, train, equip, feed, house, and clothe thousands and thousands of athletes every year. Oh, but those athletes are "exploited".

Gopherguy0723 said:
You'd need people with lots of money and an existing brand to even have a chance.
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There are plenty of people with lots of money and existing brands. Why don't any of them do it?

Gopherguy0723 said:
Basically, the NFL would have to do it, but they have no incentive because they get the NCAA to work as a minor league with zero cost to the NFL's bottom line.
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Wrong. Anyone on Earth with sufficient capital could do it. Why doesn't anyone? Why hasn't anyone?

Gopherguy0723 said:
The world is changing, and the people are waking up to the folly of the NCAA.
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:rolleyes:
 

AO54 said:
Eliminating Title IX would be the opposite of force.
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Eliminating Title IX wouldn't create a free market in college athletics. Attempting to force the NCAA to pay players wouldn't create a free market in college athletics. Competitors starting leagues to compete with the NCAA would create a free market in what used to be college athletics. Why have no competitors emerged?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Eliminating Title IX wouldn't create a free market in college athletics. Attempting to force the NCAA to pay players wouldn't create a free market in college athletics. Competitors starting leagues to compete with the NCAA would create a free market in what used to be college athletics. Why have no competitors emerged?
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By eliminating government regulations concerning the business of college athletics you will by definition be creating a free market. I can't tell you exactly how that would look, and when changes would come, but I can assure you that there would be changes.
 

AO54 said:
By eliminating government regulations concerning the business of college athletics you will by definition be creating a free market.
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Title IX isn't the only government regulation concerning the business of college athletics, champ.
 

Oh lord...this again. My take hasn't changed...when schools are paying head coaches millions per year because the football team turns a $30 million dollar profit, how long do you think it will be before the kids who work for that money start to ask for a piece?

I don't know if a "union" is going to work, but it is inevitable...like free agency and the players unions finally brought revenue sharing to major sports...the NCAA is not far behind.

And same arguments being used on this forum about nobody is forcing them to play or they should start another league or whatever where the exact same arguments used by MLB to fight free agency and it didn't work for them.

Scholarships are compensation for playing football. The students athletes have rights that go beyond regular college students and the courts will prove that out...how much rights? The courts will decide this.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Title IX isn't the only government regulation concerning the business of college athletics, champ.
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Let's call it a move towards freedom then. Put it on level grounds with other athletic businesses in the country.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Literally anyone on Earth is free to start a minor league for players that can enter the league at 18 and would compete with the NCAA for players. Why has no one done it, ever, in the near-century since professional football came into existence?
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+1. Way too many players do not pan out, so it is not cost effective for the NFL to form the league. And the reason college athletics is so successful because people actually associate with schools and feel pride. Without that, you just have the St Paul Saints of football.
 

DLguy said:
And how are they going to pay union dues to run the union? Will the school have to pay that expense for them as well?
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There are unions or "associations" of grad assistants, medical residents etc. all over the country. Dues can be pretty minimal. In the case of football the small amount could be rolled into their scholarship. It's not a whole lot different - these kids are doing a lot of hard work that directly benefits the university, and which is required to maintain therir scholarship. Grad assistants are compensated mainly by tuition scholarship too, so this is not all that different. I don't think athletes should get revenue sharing or anything because, like grad students doing research, their work is "owned" by the university.

The fact that many student-athletes couldn't pay dues is a problem in itself. Yes, they are fortunate to have a full scholarship with books, fees, room and board. It does not cover many of the other things which go into total cost of attendance, which is often thousands of dollars extra. Moreover, they are prohibited or severely restricted from working by NCAA rules. Not to mention having no time to work during the season anyway.

Most of us are fortunate not to even realize this, but some kids come from families might not be able to afford extra meals and snacks when the training table/dorm is not open (huge caloric requirements for these big guys!), non-athletic clothes, plane tickets to and from school breaks, etc.

I'm not a fan of unionization at all. I do think a temporary organized movement to affect change in NCAA policy is in order though:

It seems like this would all be fixed if the scholarship just covered full cost of attendance. Doesn't seem hard to me.
 

while I won't pay money to watch paid college players...they are adults who are free to organize as they wish.
 

They need to realize without the ties to the schools, the money goes away (Scholarships). No one watches minor league ball. They need to think about this. They have it really good. If the union help cut down on practice time and weight training, so be it. They have it pretty good.
 

One more time, The NCAA is the best thing the Land Grants have to level the playing field with the Privates. remove the NCAA at your own peril Publics.
 

AO54 said:
In what way isn't D-1 football the pros? About a month ago we learned that the average football player at the U receives $200,000 a year in room and board, coaching, travel, education, clothing, equipment and the use of top notch athletic facilities. The American appetite for pro-football extends far beyond the NFL.
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You have just shown an example of how much players are compensated. $200k/ year is a TON for a 18-22 year old. Not to mention they are getting training for their future in whatever major they decide to study.

And the crap about how the coach gets paid $x is rediculous. Isn't much different than any other business model. The person at the top gets paid the most. They bring in the talent, teach and develop that talent, and then motivate that talent. They should get paid the most. Isn't that normal in society? At least that is what the free market dictates.

And the NFL is never going to invest $200k/ year in 85 kids in the hopes that one of them pans out to play in their league where, oh yes, they will then have to pay them a much higher salary. Not feasible, and would be a horrible business model. That would be like Target paying all college expenses for any student enrolled in Carlson. Only the success rate for Target would be greatly higher.
 

Catechol said:
The fact that many student-athletes couldn't pay dues is a problem in itself. Yes, they are fortunate to have a full scholarship with books, fees, room and board. It does not cover many of the other things which go into total cost of attendance, which is often thousands of dollars extra. Moreover, they are prohibited or severely restricted from working by NCAA rules. Not to mention having no time to work during the season anyway.

Most of us are fortunate not to even realize this, but some kids come from families might not be able to afford extra meals and snacks when the training table/dorm is not open (huge caloric requirements for these big guys!), non-athletic clothes, plane tickets to and from school breaks, etc.

I'm not a fan of unionization at all. I do think a temporary organized movement to affect change in NCAA policy is in order though:

It seems like this would all be fixed if the scholarship just covered full cost of attendance. Doesn't seem hard to me.
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What else does a college kid really have to pay for beyond tuition, room, board, books that are not covered by the extra money they receive. You must remember that they do get spending money. Not only do they get training tables, but they also get food plans thru UDS. So there is all your food. I had a few freinds in college who had full rides. I was able to fully stock my Gopher apparell just with his extra give outs. Trust me, they get plenty of clothes. And another freind was smart enough with his money that he received from the U that he actually was able to buy a car. There is no reason for any of these guys to be scraping by unless they are wasting money on the newest iPhone and big screen tvs.
 

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