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  1. Default Gophers vs. Wisconsin 1892

    My website contains the results from every Gopher Football game and a couple of years ago I was contacted by a Badger fan who gave me a link to the following article:

    http://www.uwbadgers.com/blog/2011/1...h-sundays.html

    According to that article, the Gophers, who had been listed in the record books as 32-4 winners in that game, actually lost 40-32. Their evidence is from an 1894 Badger yearbook which lists the score that way. Their evidence was strong enough to convince the U athletic department because their current media guides list that score now, giving the win to Wisconsin. I also changed my website to reflect that updated score. It certainly seems reasonable to go with a source only two years removed from the game itself.

    However, I was just looking through an old book of mine which was published in 1914 called Football at Minnesota. I went to the section on 1892 and it lists the game as a Gopher win, 32-4. It also has a three paragraph description of the game which describes how the game went, including the line "It was only a fumble of punt behind Minnesota's goal line that gave Wisconsin an opportunity to save herself from a shutout." Clearly, if this description is accurate, it could not have been a 40-32 Wisconsin win.

    So, who do we believe? The 1894 source is only two years removed from the game while the 1914 source is 22 years removed, but I'd argue that it would be much easier to misprint a score from a single game than to write an entire game summary which is nothing like the game that was played. In my opinion, this game should go back to being listed as a Gopher win. Would you agree with me? And does anyone know who at the U I could contact about this?

    For completeness, I'll type in the entire game description below:

    Minnesota 32 - Wisconsin 4

    The 1892 game with Wisconsin was played at Madison, on the 29th of October. It was only a fumble of punt behind Minnesota's goal line that gave Wisconsin an opportunity to save herself from a shutout. The Minnesota team played a magnificent game, and carried everything before it. Leary was unable to play on account of an injured knee and Patterson was in charge.

    Early in the game the ball changed hands a number of times until Minnesota struck her pace, and then it was a mad rush for the Wisconsin goal. Harding, Patterson and Pillsbury vied with each other in advancing the ball for Minnesota. At the end of the first half the score stood 8 to 4 for Minnesota, Wisconsin's score coming early in the game on a fumble of a long punt.

    In the second half Wisconsin started out with a rush, but soon lost the ball. Minnesota made two good runs and one rush, and carried the ball across the Wisconsin goal for a touchdown. Wisconsin neither gained through the line or around the ends. Minnesota's progress was a series of runs and rushes with an occasional punt. The game was characterized by unusually fine interference, and powerful rushes, with the whole team in every play. Harding did wonderful work in the line and in advancing the ball. There was no scrapping over decisions, and the Wisconsin men played up to their limit all of the time.


  2. #2

    Default

    Based on the evidence presented, no question MN won that game!
    Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2727Gopher View Post
    My website contains the results from every Gopher Football game and a couple of years ago I was contacted by a Badger fan who gave me a link to the following article: http://www.uwbadgers.com/blog/2011/1...h-sundays.html According to that article, the Gophers, who had been listed in the record books as 32-4 winners in that game, actually lost 40-32. Their evidence is from an 1894 Badger yearbook which lists the score that way. Their evidence was strong enough to convince the U athletic department because their current media guides list that score now, giving the win to Wisconsin. I also changed my website to reflect that updated score. It certainly seems reasonable to go with a source only two years removed from the game itself. However, I was just looking through an old book of mine which was published in 1914 called Football at Minnesota. I went to the section on 1892 and it lists the game as a Gopher win, 32-4. It also has a three paragraph description of the game which describes how the game went, including the line "It was only a fumble of punt behind Minnesota's goal line that gave Wisconsin an opportunity to save herself from a shutout." Clearly, if this description is accurate, it could not have been a 40-32 Wisconsin win. So, who do we believe? The 1894 source is only two years removed from the game while the 1914 source is 22 years removed, but I'd argue that it would be much easier to misprint a score from a single game than to write an entire game summary which is nothing like the game that was played. In my opinion, this game should go back to being listed as a Gopher win. Would you agree with me? And does anyone know who at the U I could contact about this? For completeness, I'll type in the entire game description below: Minnesota 32 - Wisconsin 4 The 1892 game with Wisconsin was played at Madison, on the 29th of October. It was only a fumble of punt behind Minnesota's goal line that gave Wisconsin an opportunity to save herself from a shutout. The Minnesota team played a magnificent game, and carried everything before it. Leary was unable to play on account of an injured knee and Patterson was in charge. Early in the game the ball changed hands a number of times until Minnesota struck her pace, and then it was a mad rush for the Wisconsin goal. Harding, Patterson and Pillsbury vied with each other in advancing the ball for Minnesota. At the end of the first half the score stood 8 to 4 for Minnesota, Wisconsin's score coming early in the game on a fumble of a long punt. In the second half Wisconsin started out with a rush, but soon lost the ball. Minnesota made two good runs and one rush, and carried the ball across the Wisconsin goal for a touchdown. Wisconsin neither gained through the line or around the ends. Minnesota's progress was a series of runs and rushes with an occasional punt. The game was characterized by unusually fine interference, and powerful rushes, with the whole team in every play. Harding did wonderful work in the line and in advancing the ball. There was no scrapping over decisions, and the Wisconsin men played up to their limit all of the time.
    Great stuff, did you present it to the badger fan yet?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Hmmmmm.... Rules have changed a lot in 120 years. How does one score 4 points off of a fumbled punt?

    I guess I should brush up on my football history.

    Sent from my MUCH i5 using Tapatalk

  5. Default

    Have you tried to find the results in old newspapers? You could reference both a minneapolis one and a madison (or other wisconsin one if they didn't have a newspaper...). Might give you an additional reference to back either a gopher win or badger win? from the description in your book i sure sounds like the gophs dominated
    Who hates iowa?

  6. Default

    Well i just checked out wikipedia and lost total faith in wiki and the internet. The results are conflicting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_h...phers_football
    have to scroll down some to the 1892 season.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1892_Wi..._football_team
    Who hates iowa?

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    Well i just checked out wikipedia and lost total faith in wiki and the internet. The results are conflicting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_h...phers_football
    have to scroll down some to the 1892 season.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1892_Wi..._football_team
    As are the locations of the game.

  8. #8

    Default

    My great great grandfather played in that game. Interesting tidbit, after the game the Gophers chopped down the goalposts - all four of them! There was no conflict with the Badger team gathered in the home end zone however because the goal posts were on the 8 yard line.

  9. #9

    Default

    If nothing was reported as taken and never returned after the game...I am assuming the Gophers won.

  10. #10

    Default

    We still lead in the series for the ax which many of the skunk fans seem too forget. Too them, the ax is their pacifier for
    never having won a National Championship.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mnsports1 View Post
    If nothing was reported as taken and never returned after the game...I am assuming the Gophers won.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Minneapolis
    Posts
    1,599

    Default

    According to the Saint Paul Sunday Globe from October 30, 1892, Minnesota won 34 to 4.

    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...d-1/seq-11.pdf

    The graph describing the game is in the third column near the bottom of the page. I particularly like this bit:

    The Wisconsin team was handicapped by having sis of*its heaviest men in the hospital, the result of the Purdue game. About 1.000 people witnessed the game. Krnshaw, left guard for Wisconsin, had his right ankle Broken in the second half. Bruised and torn faces, broken fingers and sprains were the special features of the game.
    Last edited by gophergrad; 01-16-2014 at 07:57 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    665

    Default

    we won for sure. cheating, lying dirty skunks!
    The Anti-Viking

  14. #14

    Default

    I'll have to check my CFB encyclopedia tonight but I'm going to say it's a win and without a head coach no less.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
    821

    Default

    I think we get the win back based on the evidence.

    Also, I didn't know that a touchdown was worth 4 points back then until reading this. Wikipedia confirms that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...rican_football

  16. Default

    Intersting - on the Gophersports website it reflects a Gophers Victory:

    http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m...d-1892-93.html

    But the media guide lists it as a loss:http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/...edia_Guide.pdf
    Last edited by ChicagoGopher; 01-16-2014 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Additoinal infö

  17. Default

    I've just sent an email off to a couple of Athletic Department addresses (and I included the link to the St. Paul Daily Globe paper - thanks for that!), so we'll see if that brings anything. I think I'll also send one off to the Wisconsin Athletic Department as well, but I'll see what response I get first.

    I do think it would be worth looking into a good newspaper archive to see if we can find more information from other papers to confirm this - and to figure out whether the Globe's 34-4 score is accurate or if that is a misprint and the 32-4 score that we had for more than a century is correct. I think the downtown library has a pretty extensive collection, so when I get a chance, I'll try to get down there and take a look.

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoGopher View Post
    Intersting - on the Gophersports website it reflects a Gophers Victory:

    http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m...d-1892-93.html
    You're right - I didn't know that they haven't updated their website. If you look in the Gopher Football media guides, you'll see that in 2011, the score was still listed as a 32-4 Gopher victory, but by 2012, it had been corrected to show a Wisconsin 40-32 win.

    http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m...ia-guides.html

  19. #19

    Default

    This stuff is great.

  20. #20

    Default

    How will the outcome affect recruiting.

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