After Re-Watching MINN-UNLV Game I Have To Say...

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thailleagle

thailleagle

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... that it wasn't as bad as originally perceived. The Play-Calling wasn't nearly as bad as previously thought because most of the conservative playcalling came when we were pinned inside our own 10 but outside of that it was a nice mixture of Run & Pass plays. A few balls thrown more accurately or our WR's putting in an effort to go get the ball & we'd probably be praising Limegrover right now. The O-Line did open up a few holes that we got some big gains through but I would say they didn't control the LOS. The Defense did stop UNLV but going 4/4 on 4th Down extended drives, tired out the Defense & kept the Offense off the field. It's really hard to judge the Defensive effort because despite UNLV gaining 420 yards, 3 huge plays accounted for 120 yards by themselves & also they were on the field more then us because of our 2nd Half scoring...

Overall I'm a bit more optimistic about everything after re-watching the game...
ehh.png
 

I know on the game thread folks were freaking out about how far or Dbs were playing off the WRs, but in the end, UNLV averaged less than 4 yards per pass play. If they hadn't gone 4 for 4 on fourth down and/or we don't get 3 tds from our defense & special teams, our offense would have a much better chance to get into a groove and our defense might have had a chance to take a break.

Not saying I don't want those scores, but when your offense doesn't see the field for several possessions in a row and your defense plays 25 plays without your offense seeing the field...it can cause problems.

I was not over joyed at the Oline play. They didn't seem to adjust to what UNLV was doing quickly. Seemed that the coaches were a little stubborn about making the needed adjustment to run more option (Kill even admitted it).

Teams make their biggest improvements from week 1 -2, so I am going to wait until after UNLV before jumping on the sky is falling bandwagon that so quickly gets rolling with some of the negative trolls on this board.
 

thailleagle said:
... that it wasn't as bad as originally perceived. The Play-Calling wasn't nearly as bad as previously thought because most of the conservative playcalling came when we were pinned inside our own 10 but outside of that it was a nice mixture of Run & Pass plays. A few balls thrown more accurately or our WR's putting in an effort to go get the ball & we'd probably be praising Limegrover right now. The O-Line did open up a few holes that we got some big gains through but I would say they didn't control the LOS. The Defense did stop UNLV but going 4/4 on 4th Down extended drives, tired out the Defense & kept the Offense off the field. It's really hard to judge the Defensive effort because despite UNLV gaining 420 yards, 3 huge plays accounted for 120 yards by themselves & also they were on the field more then us because of our 2nd Half scoring...

Overall I'm a bit more optimistic about everything after re-watching the game...
ehh.png
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Thai - one thing to note - watching the game while knowing the end result and watching the game with the result unknown produces very different perceptions.
 

cncmin said:
Thai - one thing to note - watching the game while knowing the end result and watching the game with the result unknown produces very different perceptions.
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Agreed. That's why there has been such angst written in the last 72 hours.

That's why coaches look at game film to base their decisions and don't make them during the second quarter of a August 29th game for a September 7 game.

Thank god.
 

cncmin said:
Thai - one thing to note - watching the game while knowing the end result and watching the game with the result unknown produces very different perceptions.
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Indeed... but it does take away the live reactionary moments so you can watch with a sound mind...
 


I don't think it was stubbornness

GopherinPhilly said:
I know on the game thread folks were freaking out about how far or Dbs were playing off the WRs, but in the end, UNLV averaged less than 4 yards per pass play. If they hadn't gone 4 for 4 on fourth down and/or we don't get 3 tds from our defense & special teams, our offense would have a much better chance to get into a groove and our defense might have had a chance to take a break.

Not saying I don't want those scores, but when your offense doesn't see the field for several possessions in a row and your defense plays 25 plays without your offense seeing the field...it can cause problems.

I was not over joyed at the Oline play. They didn't seem to adjust to what UNLV was doing quickly. Seemed that the coaches were a little stubborn about making the needed adjustment to run more option (Kill even admitted it).

Teams make their biggest improvements from week 1 -2, so I am going to wait until after UNLV before jumping on the sky is falling bandwagon that so quickly gets rolling with some of the negative trolls on this board.
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If your talking about the qb read option play, I don't think the coaches were stubborn at all in regards to running Nelson. It was the first game of the season and I think they were being cautious and not wanting Nelson to take too many hits this early in the season, especially since our second string quarterback had not yet played a down in college. Also, they may have felt they could win the game without exposing Nelson to a lot of hits. Granted, he is always going to take some hits. Then again I may be totally wrong about this.
 

I haven't went back and watched the game, but a few of the things I did not like are a carryover from previous seasons:

-Sherry starting out of 9/10...can't happen, tough to do that against air much less on the road against a team from a bigger conference
- Slow start in general, we allowed a ton of first possession scores last year and were out of a number of games by halftime
- General look/feel of the line play (more the OL than the DL) I wanted to see a Big Ten line that overwhelmed the UNLV front four, and that didn't happen. I don't love conservative football, but if you are going to run the ball as much as Kill/Limegrover appear to want to run it, you better show some dominance up front.
- 2 minute offense to end the first half? What was that? I want to see good decision making from our head coach and play caller regardless of the result. 2 conservative running plays when you start a drive with 1:30 left on your opponents 39 yard line is just flat out bad.

Excited to see the explosive plays by the defense and special teams and was impressed by the team committing so few penalties (though the mishandled snap in the red zone is a killer).
 

thailleagle said:
Indeed... but it does take away the live reactionary moments so you can watch with a sound mind...
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Agreed - note that it can soften the perception of negative plays (because you know they don't matter in the end). EG#9 did a nice synopsis of concerns, above.

Note also that, conversely when you lose, those negative plays tend to be magnified and positive plays diminished. Think of how huge our perception of Abdul-Khaliq's 4th quarter run would be had the Gophers held on to beat Michigan. If Gary Russell's big run against Michigan a couple years later hadn't resulted in a made FG, it isn't nearly as euphoric. We largely consider the latter to be a better play because of the end result. It's amazing how differently the human mind perceives things based on global inferences and predispositions.
 

-Just watched the game again as well. Came away very impressed with Eric Murray again. Just a really solid nose for the ball. I dunno if it's Claeys, Sawvell, or both, but the secondary has been extremely well-coached for the last two seasons.

-The big runs were just ugly up the middle. From guys out of position, going in the wrong direction, and getting pushed around. In general they did a good job of containing the run, but those were really bad. I'm not sold on Wilson or Jack Lynn in the middle, but I did like what I saw out of De'Vondre Campbell.

-Someone laughed at the idea that Nelson is faster than Gray. I think he is. Unfortunately I'm not so sure his arm is any better.

-Bad game for Engel, but I still like his potential as a guy that can stretch the field. He also blocks well for his smaller frame.

-I remain a huge fan of Roland Johnson. Ditto Alex Keith. Would like to see both of them play more. For all the talk that the staff has thrown on Therein Cockran for the last two years, I've seen more out of Keith as a pass-rusher in less time.

-Returning the FG for a TD was a flukey play (and arguably should have been a penalty), but the KR and INT returns were just good plays by both players. Marcus Jones is a million times better at returning than Stoudermire. No nonsense, just finding a seam and going for it.
 



Gopherprof said:
-Returning the FG for a TD was a flukey play (and arguably should have been a penalty), but the KR and INT returns were just good plays by both players.
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Read the NCAA football fumble/batting rules about 4 times.

It is not illegal to bat a ball by the team "not in possession," unless the ball is in the end zone. All other batting penalties apply only to the "team in possession". UNLV was the team in possession, Minnesota was not. Naturally, no one can kick a loose ball anywhere on the field. Hageman made the play because he knows the rule, and said as much during interviews. A great play by a great player.
 

highwayman said:
Read the NCAA football fumble/batting rules about 4 times.

It is not illegal to bat a ball by the team "not in possession," unless the ball is in the end zone. All other batting penalties apply only to the "team in possession". UNLV was the team in possession, Minnesota was not. Naturally, no one can kick a loose ball anywhere on the field. Hageman made the play because he knows the rule, and said as much during interviews. A great play by a great player.
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Gotta agree and disagree that it was flukey - it was a great play. Hageman just obliterated the guy across from him - knocking him 3 yards into the backfield. I haven't seen replays after the game to confirm, but the kick hit him in the shoulder pads he was so far in the backfield, didn't it? Then he dives for the ball and bats it, scoop & score. Excellent play all around. You could say that won't happen against a B1G team because they won't have such light guys on the line, and maybe you're right, but against UNLV it was pretty much all Shede throwing a guy around (like he should). Nothing flukey about it - just a guy completely dominating the man across from him.
 

Gopherprof said:
-Just watched the game again as well. Came away very impressed with Eric Murray again. Just a really solid nose for the ball. I dunno if it's Claeys, Sawvell, or both, but the secondary has been extremely well-coached for the last two seasons.

-The big runs were just ugly up the middle. From guys out of position, going in the wrong direction, and getting pushed around. In general they did a good job of containing the run, but those were really bad. I'm not sold on Wilson or Jack Lynn in the middle, but I did like what I saw out of De'Vondre Campbell.

-Someone laughed at the idea that Nelson is faster than Gray. I think he is. Unfortunately I'm not so sure his arm is any better.

-Bad game for Engel, but I still like his potential as a guy that can stretch the field. He also blocks well for his smaller frame.

-I remain a huge fan of Roland Johnson. Ditto Alex Keith. Would like to see both of them play more. For all the talk that the staff has thrown on Therein Cockran for the last two years, I've seen more out of Keith as a pass-rusher in less time.

-Returning the FG for a TD was a flukey play (and arguably should have been a penalty), but the KR and INT returns were just good plays by both players. Marcus Jones is a million times better at returning than Stoudermire. No nonsense, just finding a seam and going for it.
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With you on pretty much everything except the one in bold. Troy was a very good/great kick returner for us. He never broke one for a TD but he came dang close a lot of times and often set the offense up with great field position. I think Marcus has a shot to be a good returner for us if he can stay healthy but he is not a "million times" better then Troy was.
 

His first two years he was great. His last two years he was most definitely not. Way too much dancing and trying to break the big one leading in many cases when he didn't even make it back to the twenty.

As to the FG return not being flukey, the block wasn't, the return definitely was. Almost any loose ball instance is nothing but chance.
 



EG#9 said:
2 minute offense to end the first half? What was that? I want to see good decision making from our head coach and play caller regardless of the result. 2 conservative running plays when you start a drive with 1:30 left on your opponents 39 yard line is just flat out bad.
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The 2-minute offense in general was run well. I don't mind running the football to open a 2-minute offense. I thought that was fine. That's a Kill staple, is beginning a 2-minute drive with a run. Easily the biggest concern on the 2-minute drive was spiking the ball to kill the clock with 1st-and-goal and :28 left. Terrible decision. Run a play! At most, you get three plays there and kick a FG. That means :28 is an eternity to run three plays and you save a timeout to get the FG team out there. Yet, they chose to waste one of the three plays they could have run. That now leaves you with only two plays to get it into the end zone and still plenty of time.

EG#9 said:
though the mishandled snap in the red zone is a killer).
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Wasn't a mishandled snap. It was a fumble as Nelson was turning to handoff. The fullback tipped it as he went by. Nelson has to hold it closer to his body and the fullback has to be aware of where Nelson is. But, it wasn't a mishandled snap.
 

Gopherprof said:
His first two years he was great. His last two years he was most definitely not. Way too much dancing and trying to break the big one leading in many cases when he didn't even make it back to the twenty.

As to the FG return not being flukey, the block wasn't, the return definitely was. Almost any loose ball instance is nothing but chance.
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Holy crap. Try to be somewhat positive about a great, great play on special teams.

Nothing about that play was a "fluke," from the block to the return. A fast moving rolling football will take a bigger hop about every third rotation. That's why you teach defensive and special team players that you need to get the ball out there. We used to practice that nearly every day on special teams

It's practiced over and over. You don't know where the ball is going to land after the initial block, but most everything else can be charted and practiced after that. There are just as many kick block return schemes as there are for an onside kick.
 

I've watched the game several times now.(yes, I'm THAT guy)

Our D will be better this year. Murray and Boddy both played well and have bright futures ahead of them. Add in Wells/Thompson and somehow this staff has found some really talented secondary players out of nowhere.

Maxx Williams was a monster in the blocking game.

Engel had a horrible game. Just awful. Drops/lazy routes/lack of effort on that INT. I fully expect him to either bounce back or be replaced by a frosh. Nelson looks much better if he can make a play on a couple balls, he had the opportunities.

Oline needs to be shuffled. Lenkiwitz and Bak were just ok. Campion/Epping were doing well.

I'd like to see Olson/Olson back in the lineup. Tommy played well at C.

We've got more speed this year than any time since ???. What we need is more consistency and execution.
 

Gopherprof said:
His first two years he was great. His last two years he was most definitely not. Way too much dancing and trying to break the big one leading in many cases when he didn't even make it back to the twenty.

As to the FG return not being flukey, the block wasn't, the return definitely was. Almost any loose ball instance is nothing but chance.
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Yeah, I don't really understand why we are dismissing the KO return and the blocked FG. Those kinds of things happen when you have vastly superior athletes. We had much better athletes than UNLV and it especially showed on those plays. The reason why that is important is that you probably couldn't have said the same thing a couple years ago (does anyone remember NMSU WRs running by our DBs?).

It's not enough to hang your hat on going into the Big 10 season, but I think it's a sign that we are athletically closer to being a real Big 10 team (especially on defense).
 

Gopherprof said:
-Just watched the game again as well. Came away very impressed with Eric Murray again. Just a really solid nose for the ball. I dunno if it's Claeys, Sawvell, or both, but the secondary has been extremely well-coached for the last two seasons.

-The big runs were just ugly up the middle. From guys out of position, going in the wrong direction, and getting pushed around. In general they did a good job of containing the run, but those were really bad. I'm not sold on Wilson or Jack Lynn in the middle, but I did like what I saw out of De'Vondre Campbell.

-Someone laughed at the idea that Nelson is faster than Gray. I think he is. Unfortunately I'm not so sure his arm is any better.

-Bad game for Engel, but I still like his potential as a guy that can stretch the field. He also blocks well for his smaller frame.

-I remain a huge fan of Roland Johnson. Ditto Alex Keith. Would like to see both of them play more. For all the talk that the staff has thrown on Therein Cockran for the last two years, I've seen more out of Keith as a pass-rusher in less time.

-Returning the FG for a TD was a flukey play (and arguably should have been a penalty), but the KR and INT returns were just good plays by both players. Marcus Jones is a million times better at returning than Stoudermire. No nonsense, just finding a seam and going for it.
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I pretty much agree with everything you posted here.

-Eric Murray looks really good at making a play on the ball, which is the toughest thing about being a CB. He was really impressive.
-The runs up the middle were our biggest issues on defense. I actually think we did well against the run, except we have a terrible tendency to let 12 yard runs become 40 yarders. It was a problem last year and it was a problem against UNLV.
-Keith and Johnson are both disruptive.
-Nelson is so hard for me to judge. I like him running the read-option and I think he looks good in the intermediate passing game, but I don't know if he's going to have much success throwing the ball deep (especially in games when we can't run the ball up the middle). Our WRs simply can't make a ton of plays. I think most Big 10 Wrs would have made a play on Nelson's INT. If we don't get our running game going, it's going to be really hard for us to do much in the passing game. That's partially on Nelson, but I am also aware that he should be a RS FR right now (ideally he'd still be on the bench).
 

Gopherprof said:
As to the FG return not being flukey, the block wasn't, the return definitely was. Almost any loose ball instance is nothing but chance.
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Not all fumbled are created equal. On a blocked FG, the entire "offense" except the kicker and holder (not the best athletes on the team) are facing away from the play and the entire "defense" is facing the play. A return is not flukey under those circumstances.
 

Ole said:
I've watched the game several times now.(yes, I'm THAT guy)

Engel had a horrible game. Just awful. Drops/lazy routes/lack of effort on that INT. I fully expect him to either bounce back or be replaced by a frosh. Nelson looks much better if he can make a play on a couple balls, he had the opportunities.
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Kill doesn't like to blame players when he talks to the media, but if you try to read his quotes I think it's obvious he's frustrated with Engel, and maybe to a lesser extent, Freuchte as well. He was adamant about how they need to get the FR WR's coached up and get them ready and when they do more plays will be made in the passing game. I can't really fault Derrick and Isaac, they are walk-on players who had to play last year out of necessity. They are not big ten caliber WR's. Jones, Wolitarsky, and Carter probably aren't at this stage of their careers either but at least they offer potential. How much they grow this season will have a lot to do with how many games we win IMO.
 

jaymil said:
Kill doesn't like to blame players when he talks to the media, but if you try to read his quotes I think it's obvious he's frustrated with Engel, and maybe to a lesser extent, Freuchte as well. He was adamant about how they need to get the FR WR's coached up and get them ready and when they do more plays will be made in the passing game. I can't really fault Derrick and Isaac, they are walk-on players who had to play last year out of necessity. They are not big ten caliber WR's. Jones, Wolitarsky, and Carter probably aren't at this stage of their careers either but at least they offer potential. How much they grow this season will have a lot to do with how many games we win IMO.
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Fruechte isn't and wasn't a walk-on. If he's not a Big Ten caliber WR, that's a colossal recruiting mistake by Kill and staff given that he was an early offer and early commit and we had basically no competition for him.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I pretty much agree with everything you posted here.

-Nelson is so hard for me to judge. I like him running the read-option and I think he looks good in the intermediate passing game, but I don't know if he's going to have much success throwing the ball deep (especially in games when we can't run the ball up the middle). Our WRs simply can't make a ton of plays. I think most Big 10 Wrs would have made a play on Nelson's INT. If we don't get our running game going, it's going to be really hard for us to do much in the passing game. That's partially on Nelson, but I am also aware that he should be a RS FR right now (ideally he'd still be on the bench).
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I agree for the most part, but to me Nelson has shown just enough flashes to indicate that he will be a good one. He made some really, really good 3rd down throws and he just seems to have good instincts and decent timing. The two 3rd down completions to Maye in particular were big time throws.

jaymil said:
Kill doesn't like to blame players when he talks to the media, but if you try to read his quotes I think it's obvious he's frustrated with Engel, and maybe to a lesser extent, Freuchte as well. He was adamant about how they need to get the FR WR's coached up and get them ready and when they do more plays will be made in the passing game. I can't really fault Derrick and Isaac, they are walk-on players who had to play last year out of necessity. They are not big ten caliber WR's. Jones, Wolitarsky, and Carter probably aren't at this stage of their careers either but at least they offer potential. How much they grow this season will have a lot to do with how many games we win IMO.
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I mentioned it before, I'm still convinced that Engel and Fruechte are starting right now because they are most likely the best blockers who also know the playbook. They're good examples to the younger WR's, especially when they hit the film room. As the season wears on, I expect at least one or two of the younger WR's to start getting more time as they become more well-rounded receivers. Kill and Limegrover know that right NOW, they don't necessarily need the best playmakers out there. They can send DE and IF out there to show the younger guys how to be well-rounded WR's and learn the game. Throw the young guys out there as starters now and they may never have an appreciation for the finer points of the position.

If I'm not mistaken, I didn't notice it live but when I was re-watching it (yes, apparently I'm one of those guys too), D. Jones was actually in for at least one play on the first (maybe second?) series of the game. It actually surprised me.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Fruechte isn't and wasn't a walk-on. If he's not a Big Ten caliber WR, that's a colossal recruiting mistake by Kill and staff given that he was an early offer and early commit and we had basically no competition for him.
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You're right. He had originally planned to walk-on out of high school but ended up playing in Rochester for a year before being offered a scholarship. I wouldn't call it a "colossal" recruiting mistake. A colossal recruiting mistake is recruiting a player that drops out, is kicked off the team, or never plays. At least he has provided depth and made some plays. What I'm saying is, once this offense gets to where the coaching staff and fans want it to be, Freuchte is a guy that provides depth and doesn't need to be relied upon heavily. There are still scholarships available for those kind of players.
 

jaymil said:
You're right. He had originally planned to walk-on out of high school but ended up playing in Rochester for a year before being offered a scholarship. I wouldn't call it a "colossal" recruiting mistake. A colossal recruiting mistake is recruiting a player that drops out, is kicked off the team, or never plays. At least he has provided depth and made some plays. What I'm saying is, once this offense gets to where the coaching staff and fans want it to be, Freuchte is a guy that provides depth and doesn't need to be relied upon heavily. There are still scholarships available for those kind of players.
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Freuchte had the pivotal play of the game, a 9 yard catch on 4th & 5 in the 2nd qtr on the 2-minute offense drive.
 

jaymil said:
You're right. He had originally planned to walk-on out of high school but ended up playing in Rochester for a year before being offered a scholarship. I wouldn't call it a "colossal" recruiting mistake. A colossal recruiting mistake is recruiting a player that drops out, is kicked off the team, or never plays. At least he has provided depth and made some plays. What I'm saying is, once this offense gets to where the coaching staff and fans want it to be, Freuchte is a guy that provides depth and doesn't need to be relied upon heavily. There are still scholarships available for those kind of players.
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This is a solid point.
 

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