All Things Class of 2015 Recruiting - Class Finally Complete? Nope Chris Obekpa visit

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60's Guy said:
Agreed, but he's a senior next year was my point. And more than one shooter is helpful.
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My argument for you is to wait and see before you say that none of our incoming players can shoot. don't worry about next year until next year I would bet we have at least a few shooters on our team in 2016-2017. And I am not sure where you get that Lofton(39% overall 29% from 3pt) is a shooter... he shot a much worse percentage than carlos morris(45% overall 36% from 3pt)....
 

Tim1406 said:
someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I call BS on this. Every HS recruit we have(outside of Johnson) was in this roll for their respective HS teams. Can they do it against the BIG we don't know.

When you have 6 possibly 7 recruits and are turning over more than half your roster you shouldn't expect to have proven BIG go to scorers on your team.
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My point: if you have 6 or 7 scholarships you should recruit a proven high school "go to scorer" or at least a shooter....somewhere in the group.
Maybe they were the leading scorers on their team. That in no way makes them go to scorers. It's a mentality, it's a skill,
it's a gift that you don't just tell somebody to be or do. Of our group nobody is even close to that definition.
Lawrence westbrook averaged 41 points as junior in high school. He was a "go to scorer". He and Tubby didn't seem to see eye to eye. Tubby evidently doesn't appreciate that type of player. Hoffarber clearly was a shooter. Just two recent guys as examples we have nobody like that coming.
It's easy to defend a team that has nobody you have to account for. Did they even guard Tum Tum in the final four? We tried to recruit him too. Tum Tum has a place as do all our guards but they need somebody to kick to or you need somebody who can get a hoop when you need one like Mathieu did as a junior...attacking the rim. But Mathieu's mentality was not that of a "go to scorer" and he didn't do it as a senior...it's not who he was. It's who Pitino was able to make him for a stretch until he got nervous, lost confidence whatever...
 

60's Guy said:
My point: if you have 6 or 7 scholarships you should recruit a proven high school "go to scorer" or at least a shooter....somewhere in the group.
Maybe they were the leading scorers on their team. That in no way makes them go to scorers. It's a mentality, it's a skill,
it's a gift that you don't just tell somebody to be or do. Of our group nobody is even close to that definition.
Lawrence westbrook averaged 41 points as junior in high school. He was a "go to scorer". He and Tubby didn't seem to see eye to eye. Tubby evidently doesn't appreciate that type of player. Hoffarber clearly was a shooter. Just two recent guys as examples we have nobody like that coming.
It's easy to defend a team that has nobody you have to account for. Did they even guard Tum Tum in the final four? We tried to recruit him too. Tum Tum has a place as do all our guards but they need somebody to kick to or you need somebody who can get a hoop when you need one like Mathieu did as a junior...attacking the rim. But Mathieu's mentality was not that of a "go to scorer" and he didn't do it as a senior...it's not who he was. It's who Pitino was able to make him for a stretch until he got nervous, lost confidence whatever...
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I agree with you. Dupree McBrayer and possibly Zach Lofton are those guys. And possibly Nate Mason.
 

Tim1406 said:
My argument for you is to wait and see before you say that none of our incoming players can shoot. don't worry about next year until next year I would bet we have at least a few shooters on our team in 2016-2017. And I am not sure where you get that Lofton(39% overall 29% from 3pt) is a shooter... he shot a much worse percentage than carlos morris(45% overall 36% from 3pt)....
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Lofton is exciting because he has the mentality! He has the athleticism to become a dangerous scorer. He could be developed into someone who is very hard to guard. Someone who can score when defended. You can't just make these other guys magically into that without them having the goods. It is IN Lofton. Getting it out is the fun of coaching. Morris could be the guy...he absolutely has that potential too. But, it's missing in the incoming group.
I watched DJ Hogg on tape 10 seconds first time ever and I knew he could shoot and was special. Then I looked up to see he was called the best shooter by some and 35th overall. If you coached and build shooters long enough, you can predict the ones who you can make into shooters very quickly...even if they have never played. And you know the ones it's going to be a struggle and are going to have to work forever to just get competent. Could EE shoot? Think they coached him? Think he tried hard to learn how to make a free throw? You can SEE it in somebody who can shoot instantly. Could Hoffarber shoot? Did you have to look at stats to determine that? You can or you can't. And you can see it or you can't.

Another example: Does Bo Ryan typically have guys who can shoot? Think he recruits shooters or makes Tum Tum guys into shooters?
 

60's Guy said:
My point: if you have 6 or 7 scholarships you should recruit a proven high school "go to scorer" or at least a shooter....somewhere in the group.
Maybe they were the leading scorers on their team. That in no way makes them go to scorers. It's a mentality, it's a skill,
it's a gift that you don't just tell somebody to be or do. Of our group nobody is even close to that definition.
Lawrence westbrook averaged 41 points as junior in high school. He was a "go to scorer". He and Tubby didn't seem to see eye to eye. Tubby evidently doesn't appreciate that type of player. Hoffarber clearly was a shooter. Just two recent guys as examples we have nobody like that coming.
It's easy to defend a team that has nobody you have to account for. Did they even guard Tum Tum in the final four? We tried to recruit him too. Tum Tum has a place as do all our guards but they need somebody to kick to or you need somebody who can get a hoop when you need one like Mathieu did as a junior...attacking the rim. But Mathieu's mentality was not that of a "go to scorer" and he didn't do it as a senior...it's not who he was. It's who Pitino was able to make him for a stretch until he got nervous, lost confidence whatever...
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If you want an attacking PG, than you will certainly like Dorsey.
 


60's Guy said:
Howie, they are not going to make him quick and they are not going to make him a shooter if he is here all three years.
Shot blocker they can build on and a post scorer they can develop. He's not going to ever shoot spot up trailing 3's or be anything like Joey offensively. He's a tougher Mo, hopefully.
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You're probably right, he didn't take a 3 in two years. My thought was he'll be forced to play his two best rebounders together. IMO Konate and Lynch.
 

60's Guy said:
I believe Richard Pitino can coach. I'm very worried about his ability to evaluate talent, recruit and manage a roster.
No lights out shooter and nobody who has played the role of a go to scorer. And Michael Hurt is not that guy either the following year. So, Mason and King are the guys taking the shots at the end of games next year with Morris willing to do so.
Gilbert (it's a highlight tape...they all go in) and Jarvis can't shoot. Dorsey is an aggressive, attacking type offensive player noted for defense. McBrayer maybe can be a shooter? (hoping) But what all these guys do best is attack and finish or kick. Kick to who?
King and Buggs? Hurt can make wide open 3's the following year...how many? time will tell. Just very worried we have nobody who can score when defended and that gets back to Richard's ability to coach...guessing he'll find a way to score but to be top 5 in the Big Ten we need better mix of players than this forseeable group?
Of the above group...Lofton is the most exciting offensive player. Better hope he walks on.
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Wow, sounds like they should have hired you as the coach.. I am willing to give a little more faith in coach Pitino, maybe you should also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Zach started off very slowly,as many do stepping up to a D1 level.If you look at his last 9/10 games them numbers are much higher.Im sure glad we leave the decision making up to to coaches,cuz this board wouldn't be happy unless we had all 1 and dones,that stayed 4 years just to make you happy. I wouldn't be surprised if Zach went overseas next year.
 

A few thoughts on recent comments. I am not sure the changed headline of Russo vs Boucher for the last scholarship is even close to accurate. I agree with those that think it's at least a possibility that two more additions are made. Assuming we just have one scholarship left though, I don't know why Jordan Caroline is being discounted. I have my doubts that Pitino would take a second guy who has to sit out next year unless he's a stud, but as of now Caroline still has a visit scheduled.

I am encouraged by the news that the staff is at least keeping in contact with Jordan Murphy. I don't think this program is in a position to just fill needs and I think we should be taking the best players we can get and worry about positions later. I'd take Murphy or Ellison tomorrow over any of our known PF options.

I will probably regret this, but I agree with 60's guy about needing a go to scorer. I think of the guys we have committed or are somehow attached to, only McBrayer and Lofton have the potential skillset and mentality to be that guy. Without guys who can consistently get their own shot in the half court it's tough to win consistently, especially on the road.

Lynch/Konate playing together: I think it's unlikely based on Pitino's current preferences. However, if it were to happen I feel like posters are focusing on the wrong guy playing the 4. I think Konate plays the 4 and Lynch the 5 if they were to play together. Bakary is better suited than Reggie to play away from the basket on both ends of the floor.
 



How are people commenting on the incoming freshmen's mentality? A lot of growing happens at this age who knows how they'll transition into BIG players. And who knows mason could end up being like Trey Burke next year(What used to be said around here? POLLYANNA!!!!!)
 

Jigga said:
Both plan A and B should be good, Russo would provide versatility as a combo forward similar to Buggs.

@TheGopherReport: Gopher Bball Depth:
PG: Dorsey, Jarvis
SG: Mason, McBrayer, Lofton (TBD)
SF: Morris, Gilbert
PF: King, Buggs, Diedhou
C: Konate, Nwankwo

I can't figure out how to post tweets anymore.... oh well *shrugs.
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I don't want anyone similar to Buggs and they won't recruit anyone similar to Buggs. Worst comparison ever. If a Buggs type player was the only thing available, Pitino would bank the scholarship. We only have three to give next year if we bank a scholarship, so wasting one on a another guy who can't contribute until he is a fifth year player makes no sense, and contradicts everything Pitino has said about making decisions this spring. ( I know he will only be an RS junior, but anyone who thinks he will go from being a player w/o a position to a real contributor in one year is dreaming).
By the way, I do not blame Buggs; Tubby is the guy who recruited him, and about four other guys in the spring as last minute desperation recruits when they had not done the work to have other guys with legitimate major conference offers or ability as potential spring recruits.
 

I don't want anyone similar to Buggs and they won't recruit anyone similar to Buggs. Worst comparison ever. If a Buggs type player was the only thing available, Pitino would bank the scholarship. We only have three to give next year if we bank a scholarship, so wasting one on a another guy who can't contribute until he is a fifth year player makes no sense, and contradicts everything Pitino has said about making decisions this spring. ( I know he will only be an RS junior, but anyone who thinks he will go from being a player w/o a position to a real contributor in one year is dreaming).
By the way, I do not blame Buggs; Tubby is the guy who recruited him, and about four other guys in the spring as last minute desperation recruits when they had not , done the work to have other guys with legitimate major conference offers or ability as potential spring recruits.
McBrayer can shoot, Gilbert can shoot. we are not without shooters. Boucher can score, he could help us a lot, we'll see if we get a visit.
So far I like the fact that RP is a fan of the possible, and gets the best thing done he can get done. Tubby's problem was he thought guys would line up to play for him and when they didn't there was no plan B, it was directly to Plan F.
 

per Sid:

• Gophers men’s basketball coach Richard Pitino might have recruited his first blue-chip player in Ahmad Gilbert, who led his Philadelphia Constitution High School team to the Class 1A (small-school) state title this season. Gilbert scored 28 points, going 6-for-12 from the three-point line, and had 11 rebounds, three steals and two blocks in a 85-53 victory over Farrell.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/301334141.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue

Go Gophers!!
 




EG#9 said:
A few thoughts on recent comments. I am not sure the changed headline of Russo vs Boucher for the last scholarship is even close to accurate. I agree with those that think it's at least a possibility that two more additions are made. Assuming we just have one scholarship left though, I don't know why Jordan Caroline is being discounted. I have my doubts that Pitino would take a second guy who has to sit out next year unless he's a stud, but as of now Caroline still has a visit scheduled.

I am encouraged by the news that the staff is at least keeping in contact with Jordan Murphy. I don't think this program is in a position to just fill needs and I think we should be taking the best players we can get and worry about positions later. I'd take Murphy or Ellison tomorrow over any of our known PF options.

I will probably regret this, but I agree with 60's guy about needing a go to scorer. I think of the guys we have committed or are somehow attached to, only McBrayer and Lofton have the potential skillset and mentality to be that guy. Without guys who can consistently get their own shot in the half court it's tough to win consistently, especially on the road.

Lynch/Konate playing together: I think it's unlikely based on Pitino's current preferences. However, if it were to happen I feel like posters are focusing on the wrong guy playing the 4. I think Konate plays the 4 and Lynch the 5 if they were to play together. Bakary is better suited than Reggie to play away from the basket on both ends of the floor.
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I think you're right.
 


corcoran1 said:
I don't want anyone similar to Buggs and they won't recruit anyone similar to Buggs. Worst comparison ever. If a Buggs type player was the only thing available, Pitino would bank the scholarship. We only have three to give next year if we bank a scholarship, so wasting one on a another guy who can't contribute until he is a fifth year player makes no sense, and contradicts everything Pitino has said about making decisions this spring. ( I know he will only be an RS junior, but anyone who thinks he will go from being a player w/o a position to a real contributor in one year is dreaming).
By the way, I do not blame Buggs; Tubby is the guy who recruited him, and about four other guys in the spring as last minute desperation recruits when they had not , done the work to have other guys with legitimate major conference offers or ability as potential spring recruits.
McBrayer can shoot, Gilbert can shoot. we are not without shooters. Boucher can score, he could help us a lot, we'll see if we get a visit.
So far I like the fact that RP is a fan of the possible, and gets the best thing done he can get done. Tubby's problem was he thought guys would line up to play for him and when they didn't there was no plan B, it was directly to Plan F.
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Coach P. and staff have signed 9 spring recruits out of a total of 16 in two years. Buggs was actually a fall recruit and I agree the comparison was terrible.
Damian Johnson seems much closer, although I hate to compare players.
 

If this is a near top 40 class then Coach Pitino should have then in top 5 in the big 10 in 3 years. This is how you prove you can put a competitive team together.
 




burton34 said:
?
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If guys stay together he's right. Course we haven't had a core recruiting class stay for four years since Hoff and Nolan. Nor have we pulled in a top 40 class in quite sometime. So I can see why this flew right over your head.
 


I am not down on spring recruits. I am down on spring recruits no one has ever heard of and have no offers from a Div 1 team. Real unknowns that can be major college successes are much rarer in hoops than in FB and are almost unheard of, even for big men where it is possible. That was Tubby' problem. He did not have Plan B guys or Plan C or D. We went straight to guys who had no business being on a B1G team for three years. I can accept some of that with big men, but if you do that with guards and wings you are in trouble. Tubby did it everywhere.
 

corcoran1 said:
I am not down on spring recruits. I am down on spring recruits no one has ever heard of and have no offers from a Div 1 team. Real unknowns that can be major college successes are much rarer in hoops than in FB and are almost unheard of, even for big men where it is possible. That was Tubby' problem. He did not have Plan B guys or Plan C or D. We went straight to guys who had no business being on a B1G team for three years. I can accept some of that with big men, but if you do that with guards and wings you are in trouble. Tubby did it everywhere.
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Not true. Tubby recruited good Bigs. Not sure where you get this. some of the gaurds came out of nowhere but of Tevor Mbakwe, Royce White, Rodney Williams, Ralph Sampson III, Colton Iverson, Elliott Eliason, and Mo Walker. Only Elliott Eliason and MBakwe(out of HS) were not a rivals top 150 guys.

Edit: I forgot about Buggs...
 

Tim1406 said:
Not true. Tubby recruited good Bigs. Not sure where you get this. some of the gaurds came out of nowhere but of Tevor Mbakwe, Royce White, Rodney Williams, Ralph Sampson III, Colton Iverson, Elliott Eliason, and Mo Walker. Only Elliott Eliason and MBakwe(out of HS) were not a rivals top 150 guys.

Edit: I forgot about Buggs...
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Mbakwe was ESPN top 100. In the 70-80 range I remember.
 

60's Guy said:
I believe Richard Pitino can coach. I'm very worried about his ability to evaluate talent, recruit and manage a roster.
No lights out shooter and nobody who has played the role of a go to scorer. And Michael Hurt is not that guy either the following year. So, Mason and King are the guys taking the shots at the end of games next year with Morris willing to do so.
Gilbert (it's a highlight tape...they all go in) and Jarvis can't shoot. Dorsey is an aggressive, attacking type offensive player noted for defense. McBrayer maybe can be a shooter? (hoping) But what all these guys do best is attack and finish or kick. Kick to who?
King and Buggs? Hurt can make wide open 3's the following year...how many? time will tell. Just very worried we have nobody who can score when defended and that gets back to Richard's ability to coach...guessing he'll find a way to score but to be top 5 in the Big Ten we need better mix of players than this forseeable group?
Of the above group...Lofton is the most exciting offensive player. Better hope he walks on.
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1000% agree... Hope it works out for him, could be a special situation despite the fact some posters distaste for the kid.
 

Tim1406 said:
Not true. Tubby recruited good Bigs. Not sure where you get this. some of the gaurds came out of nowhere but of Tevor Mbakwe, Royce White, Rodney Williams, Ralph Sampson III, Colton Iverson, Elliott Eliason, and Mo Walker. Only Elliott Eliason and MBakwe(out of HS) were not a rivals top 150 guys.

Edit: I forgot about Buggs...
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Also forgot about Ingram and Osenieks
 



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