#82 Richmond upsets greatest coach ever, SHAKA SMART's #19 VCU team.

Donate To GopherHole
#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
No, I won't post less EG#9.

And no, its not a joke.

Tubby has a Natl Title. What does Shaka Smart have so far? SO FAR, he's nothing more than a FLUKE. Possibly a one hit wonder.

How long was he a head coach when they had their FF run?! He was in his SECOND YEAR as a Head Coach. Weren't some of those players that got him to the FF recruited by his predecessor?!

And his team did WORSE the 2nd year than they did the first year, and almost didn't even make the Tournament field.


Give Shaka Smart another 10-15 years, and we may come to find out that he's no better than Tubby?

Honestly, right now, we just don't know. ONE FLUKE SEASON, with mostly another coaches players(wait, this sounds like familiar criticism, lol) does NOT an incredible world beating coach make.

Shaka's got a lot more to prove.


As well as Tubby.
Click to expand...

True- Tubby has a national title. But he has a national title while coaching from a school that you could sit on a couch and mail letters and reel in top 20 recruited squads every year.

I'm not a fire Tubby guy. However, I have not met a knowledgable basketball person that thinks he's a good game coach or even an agressive recruiter. We were fortunate to have Tubby come here after where things had gotten but I'd exchange him for Shaka Smart in a New York minute. I would guarantee our AD and anyone over at the U would do the same were it financially viable and Smart wanted to come here.
 

station19 said:
Gophers have never had a conference record above 500 during Tubby's tenure and never higher than a sixth place finish.

Wisconsin has never finished below fourth place(conference) during the Bo era....11 seasons(?)

That is a horrible thought.............That is effing Wisconsin..........How do people explain that away?

This is supposed to be Tubby's best team and a down year for Bo, yet the trend may continue.
Click to expand...

I fear you may be correct. Please do not lose to the damn Badgers!
 

I must be the only VCU and Gopher fan around here. This thread is ridiculous. Why are people putting down Shaka and VCU? CBI Championship in his first year (I know, it's the CBI) loses a first round draft pick in 2010 (Larry Sanders, Bucks). Follows that season up with a Final Four. Than graduates all his starters but one, and takes the 9th youngest team to the NCAAs, barely losing to Indiana on a final shot to the Sweet Sixteen.

Here VCU is, finally playing with Shaka's recruited players, ranked - and loses to a city rival in overtime. Rivalries are never predictable.

I'm just going to enjoy the two good season VCU and Minnesota are having, and hoping they meet each other in the championship.
 


Gopher+RamFan said:
I must be the only VCU and Gopher fan around here. This thread is ridiculous. Why are people putting down Shaka and VCU? CBI Championship in his first year (I know, it's the CBI) loses a first round draft pick in 2010 (Larry Sanders, Bucks). Follows that season up with a Final Four. Than graduates all his starters but one, and takes the 9th youngest team to the NCAAs, barely losing to Indiana on a final shot to the Sweet Sixteen.

Here VCU is, finally playing with Shaka's recruited players, ranked - and loses to a city rival in overtime. Rivalries are never predictable.

I'm just going to enjoy the two good season VCU and Minnesota are having, and hoping they meet each other in the championship.
Click to expand...
I was more being sarcastic with everyone overreacting to one game and how Shaka Smart is the greatest coach ever I thought it was pretty funny how they lost to Richmond.
 



bleedsmaroonandgold, so Shaka did his job when he took his players to the FF, but Tubby didn't do his job when he took a team and won SIX games in a row and won a Natl Title?
 

afurry91 --

First of all, I'll compare Minnesota to whomever I please, wherever I please, anyday I please, any way I please.

I mean, are you trying to tell me what I can or can not do?! lol





LMAO, give me a break people. WOW. This whole thread was started to MOCK the idiots who are claiming the sky is falling and the world is going to end because of the ONE loss to Northwestern. I don't dislike Shaka Smart, or VCU. Shaka's name just happens to have popped up more than anyone else's in all the Fire Tubby talk, and ONE DAY AFTER we lose to #80 NW on the road and all the Fire Tubby talk got really going, Shaka leads his team to a LOSS to the #82 ranked team on the road. The coincide was just too funny, imo, not to use it to make a point.


MIAMI
New Mexico
Syracuse
Louisville
Butler
Indiana
Wichita St
NCSU
Oregon
Creighton

VCU

Minnesota


ALL teams with losses to teams ranked worse than #50 in the RPI rankings. Some of those losses were HOME games even.

New Mexico & Wichita St have TWO losses to teams ranked below #50 in the RPI standings.

And go figure, they ALL are ranked teams, and every one of them, including Minnesota, is still in the hunt for a top seed in the NCAA tournament.



I know a lot of you think that NW is not deserving of even their #80 RPI ranking, that its some computer glitch, but other computer rankings/ratings have NW ranked even better. It's undeniable that they have ROAD wins over 3 teams now, ranked in the Top 50 of the RPI rankings. They only lost by 2 pts to Stanford, whereas we only beat Stanford by 3.

I'm only trying to bring some BALANCE into the conversation.

Yes, Gopher fans probably got their hopes up way too high. We all bought into the hype, it was hard not to. Wins over MSU and the Illini on the road seemed pretty impressive at the time.

But that doesn't mean that one slip up should result in such over the top negativity. The losses to IU ON THE ROAD and Michigan, well, they are understandable, Top 5 teams seem to be able to bring out the worst in their opponents. Weak competition seems to be able to bring out the best. That's a pretty common theme in cbb.

Then there are games like the one vs NW, where everything seems to go wrong. Coach made mistakes, including one HUGE mistake, players made mistakes, and now FANS are making mistakes.


Losing sucks, it does, but complaining about it isn't going to help. It's just annoying.
 




station19 said:
Gophers have never had a conference record above 500 during Tubby's tenure and never higher than a sixth place finish.

Wisconsin has never finished below fourth place(conference) during the Bo era....11 seasons(?)

That is a horrible thought.............That is effing Wisconsin..........How do people explain that away?

This is supposed to be Tubby's best team and a down year for Bo, yet the trend may continue.
Click to expand...


Just want to remind you that before the season, the Badgers were expected to finish ahead of the Gophers by most people outside of this forum. The conference is really good, and really deep, and most every team in the conference is going to lose games to teams you think they should have beaten. They have had a little bump in their season... but they've lost to the current number 1 team Duke, the team who will probably be number 1 next week in Michigan, the preseason number 1 team in all the polls Indiana and on the road to NW and some fans are panicking and jumping off the bandwagon like the sky is falling. The Big Ten season is 1/3 of the way through, but lets see where they are after the next 6 games before you start calling for or even discussing them firing the coach. The team has had the 4th hardest SOS and is still ranked number 10 in the RPI. They play in a conference that had 5 teams ranked ahead of them in the preseason rankings and some of you think they should never lose a game, and the only reason they have is because Tubby Smith is the worst coach in America. They honestly aren't that talented that they are going to win a game on the road in the Big Ten when they shoot and play poorly. If they win tomorrow and go 4-3 in the conference after playing at Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, and NW and at home against MSU, UMich and NW, that is a pretty damn good start in the Big Ten.
 

Minnesota has beaten who?


1. - Michigan St - Ranked #10 in the OPR, #13 in the RPI

2. - Illinois - Ranked #29 in the RPI

3. - Memphis - Ranked #31 in the BPI, #33 in the OPR, #37 in the Sagarin, #42 in the RPI

4. - N Dak St - Ranked #39 in the Ken-Pom, #57 in the RPI

5. - Stanford - Ranked #54 in the BPI, #60 in the Sagarin

6. - Florida St - Ranked #56 in the Sagarin, #73 in the RPI

7. - S Dak St - Ranked #67 in the RPI, #84 in the OPR

8. - Northwestern - Ranked #66 in the OPR, #70 in the Sagarin

9. - Richmond - Ranked #71 in the RPI, #80 in the OPR

10. - Tennessee St - Ranked #89 in the RPI

11. - Southern Cal - Ranked #94 in the Ken-Pom, #105 in the Sagarin, #107 in the BPI



Losses -

1. - Duke - Ranked #1 in the RPI, #2 in the BPI
2. - Michigan - Ranked #1 in the OPR, #3 in the Sagarin
3. - Indiana - Ranked #2 in the Ken-Pom, #4 in the Sagarin
4. - Nrthwstn - Ranked #66 in the OPR, #70 in the Sagarin


That puts them at

1-3 vs the Top 25 of the RPI

3-3 vs the Top 50 of the RPI

6-3 vs the Top 75 of the RPI

11-4 vs the Top 100 of the RPI


This is a very impressive Resume. So far



Future opponents

vs Indiana - Ranked #2 in the Ken-Pom

@ Mich St - Ranked #13 in the RPI

@ Ohio St - Ranked #10 in the Ken-Pom, #26 in the RPI

vs Illinois - Ranked #29 in the RPI

@ Wisconsin - Ranked #13 in the Ken-Pom, #58 in the RPI

vs Wisconsin -

@ Iowa - Ranked #34 in the Ken-Pom, #40 in the Sagarin, #76 in the RPI

vs Iowa

@ Nebraska - Ranked #79 in the RPI

vs Nebraska

@ Purdue - Ranked #57 in the Sagarin, #121 in the RPI

@ Penn St - Ranked #184 in the RPI

vs Penn St


I know that's 13 games listed and we only have 12 left, but don't have the schedule right in front of me, so not sure which game is not going to happen?


I included other ratings/rankings because they help in possibly predicting how a team may finish out the season. A team with a not so good looking RPI ranking right now, but a good ranking in the other polls, is more likely to rise in the RPI as the season progresses, whereas a team who ranks well in the RPI but not so good in other polls is more likely to fall in the RPI rankings. Several of the Gophers former or future opponents look to probably rise in the RPI polls before the end of the season, while only 2 or 3 will probably drop, such as Illinois and Nebraska.

All bodes well for the Gophers, whether they finish out 5-7 or 9-2.
 


ethomasp31 said:
Just want to remind you that before the season, the Badgers were expected to finish ahead of the Gophers by most people outside of this forum. The conference is really good, and really deep, and most every team in the conference is going to lose games to teams you think they should have beaten. They have had a little bump in their season... but they've lost to the current number 1 team Duke, the team who will probably be number 1 next week in Michigan, the preseason number 1 team in all the polls Indiana and on the road to NW and some fans are panicking and jumping off the bandwagon like the sky is falling. The Big Ten season is 1/3 of the way through, but lets see where they are after the next 6 games before you start calling for or even discussing them firing the coach. The team has had the 4th hardest SOS and is still ranked number 10 in the RPI. They play in a conference that had 5 teams ranked ahead of them in the preseason rankings and some of you think they should never lose a game, and the only reason they have is because Tubby Smith is the worst coach in America. They honestly aren't that talented that they are going to win a game on the road in the Big Ten when they shoot and play poorly. If they win tomorrow and go 4-3 in the conference after playing at Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, and NW and at home against MSU, UMich and NW, that is a pretty damn good start in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

They have had a little bump in their season.
Umm, they have a 5.5 yr reacord of the same things.....It's not the 'little bump' that everyone is complaining about.


They honestly aren't that talented
Who's fault is that?
 




station19 said:
They have had a little bump in their season.
Umm, they have a 5.5 yr reacord of the same things.....It's not the 'little bump' that everyone is complaining about.


They honestly aren't that talented
Who's fault is that?
Click to expand...

No one in the Big Ten is that talented that they will win on the road if they play and shoot poorly. The Big Ten is deep and good. Teams are going to lose on the road to teams they are perceived to be better than. It happens a few times every week in the Big Ten. The thing that bothers me is that people wait until they have their first loss to a team ranked outside the top 5 and they start with the Tubby sucks and I wish he would leave crap.

In the last 30 years, the Gophers have won 11 or more games in the Big Ten twice. In 89-90 they were 11-7 and in 96-97 they were 16-2. This team has a chance to be the second best team we have had here in 30 years and some of you are ready to jump off the bandwagon and fire Tubby after we lose one game you think they should have won. The truth is Tubby's first 5 years are a lot like all but two of Clem Haskins years at the U. The 89-90 team lost at Wisconsin, which finished 4-14 that year in the Big Ten, and the Gophers were 3-3 in the Big Ten after that game!!! That 89-90 team was the only team that has finished with over 10 wins in the Big Ten besides the Final 4 team in the last 30 years at Minnesota. They were 11-7. Tubby's first three years they were right around .500. They would have probably finished a little better than that the last two years had Al Nolen not gotten hurt two years ago and Trevor Mbakwe not torn up his knee last year.

An 11-7 record in the Big Ten this year is pretty dang good for the Gophers. This team still has a shot to do that and maybe even be a little better. If the Gophers finish out the Big Ten at 8-10 or 9-9, bitch away all you want, especially if it looks like we aren't going to get any of the Big Three junior recruits. But right now isn't the time to bitch. They are having a pretty good season. They have lost one game to a team outside the top 5 in the country and it was on the road in the Big Ten. It happens...to all teams...get over it.
 


ethomasp31 said:
If the Gophers finish out the Big Ten at 8-10 or 9-9, bitch away all you want, especially if it looks like we aren't going to get any of the Big Three junior recruits. But right now isn't the time to bitch.
Click to expand...

Well I guess you've set the rules.
 

Bitch all you want...it just makes you look like the typical Minnesota fan.
 


#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
bleedsmaroonandgold, so Shaka did his job when he took his players to the FF, but Tubby didn't do his job when he took a team and won SIX games in a row and won a Natl Title?
Click to expand...

They both did their jobs in those years. It was a different job though. Tubby took winners and won with them. Shaka took losers and won with them. The difference is that Tubby had players anyone could win with, and indeed Pitino, the man who recruited them, did win a championship with them. Shaka's predecessor wasn't able to reach anywhere near the Final Four with those players, but Shaka was able to out-coach his predecessor and win with his players.

If we had a national championship quality program when we fired Monson, I'm sure Tubby would have been the perfect coach to win a title the first year and then putz around and be almost as good the rest of the way.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I know that's 13 games listed and we only have 12 left, but don't have the schedule right in front of me, so not sure which game is not going to happen?
Click to expand...

We only play Penn State once this year, and it's at home, there is no @Penn State.

And ethomasp, with regards to only have two seasons with more than 10 Big Ten wins in the last 30 years, I think you should probably include Monson's 10-6 season as well. It's harder to reach 10+ wins with only 16 Big Ten games, in fact 10-6 is actually slightly better than 11-7 as far as winning percentage goes, so if you're going to include Clem's 11-7 season, I think you should include Monson's 10-6 season as well.

The loss to Northwestern definitely sucks, and it would have helped us with potentially winning the conference if we could avoid losing even a single game to a Big Ten team that is worse than us, but 2011-12 Big Ten champs Michigan State and Ohio State both lost road games to a 6-12 Illinois team, so it's not the end of the world that we lost this game.
 

ethomasp31 has it right. The gophs lost to a team they should've beaten, which will happen to pert near every team in the conference this season. How the rest of the season plays out will reflect on Tubby, just as the rest of his tenure has. You're also right about the sporting fans in this state. The worst. The media feeds it because people eat it up. The only way to fix that is to be a better fan. Yes you. I'm talking specifically to you, fellow message board poster.

Should Tubstachio have had the boys ready to go against the 1-3-1? Of course. They f'd that up worse than that awful purple washout floor in Evanston. But it is one game. There's no reason the gophers can't beat anybody in the conference, but that game showed them they can lose on any given night too.

My point? Not sure I have one. But I read this whole thread so I might as well post.

Cheer up and watch some jam dunks...MF beat the badgers.
 


Sweaty Frasier said:
My point? Not sure I have one. But I read this whole thread so I might as well post.
Click to expand...


Absolutely the most honest post since dboy started threads about Sullinger being over rated and rebounding on free throws is easy because all ya haffta do is stand there and wait for the miss to come to ya. Wait, or was that millionstospare/missedlayup?
 

Dr.Don said:
Absolutely the most honest post since dboy started threads about Sullinger being over rated and rebounding on free throws is easy because all ya haffta do is stand there and wait for the miss to come to ya. Wait, or was that millions2spare/missedlayup?
Click to expand...


you're welcome

BTW..'Adam' has posted twice in the last couple of days.
 


Sweaty Frasier said:
Great points.
Click to expand...

BTW you are right about that floor at Northwestern. Atrocious.

Gophers have the best floor.
M at center court...perfect

B1G off to side......I hate it when they put it in the paint/lane

WILLIAMS ARENA
..... The Barn.............. perfect

Smaller font on MINNESOTA and GOLDEN GOPHERS.............much better than the old.
 

Agreed, some good upgrades in Williams. Still torn about the McDonalds Ms going away on the stairs, but in the end I think it was the right thing. Transfats and all that.
 

Station - WilliamsArenaGuy is right, I'm MinnesotaPride.


A few of the things I love - The Gophers. Truth. Balance. Honesty.

A few things that I don't love or hate - Tubby Smith.

A few things that I HATE - Liars. Hypocrites. Exaggeration. Manipulation. Cheaters.




If someone came to the GH and tried arguing that America was the worst country ever, I'd defend America. But if someone came to the GH and tried arguing that America was the best country ever, I might be inspired to point out some of its faults.

Balance.


Someone tries to make Tubby Smith out to be more than he is, I would probably be inspired to point out his faults. But no, here at the GH, we have people trying to make Tubby Smith out to be worse than he is or deserves, so I am inspired to point out his good points. Simply trying to bring balance to the equation. With so many extremely negative posters here all bashing Tubby pretty badly, I end up looking like I am a Tubby Smith backer. I'm not necessarily a Tubby Smith backer. If all the Tubby haters left and only Tubby lovers remained, I'd evolve into the forum's biggest Tubby critic, in order to bring balance to the equation.


I don't dislike Shaka Smart, in fact, if I heard tomorrow that he was going to be our new coach, I wouldn't know what to think. I wouldn't be overjoyed, but I definitely wouldn't be angry. I'd do just as I'm going to to with Tubby and this season's Gophers. I'm going to wait until the season is all done and over with, and then I'm going to wait some more to see about the 2014 recruiting class. If Shaka took over at the end of the season and landed 2 or all 3 of the top Mn guys from 2014, I would consider that a very good start to his career here. If Tubby gets 2 or all 3 of them here, no matter how the season turns out, I'll be pleased and hopeful about our future.

I'm not going to say that Tubby has to do this or that this year, because I don't know what to expect yet. If we lose Trev to injury or Dre, or something like that, then expecting a Sweet 16 trip would be expecting too much. So far this season, Tubby's lost ONE game that he shouldn't have. JUST ONE. If we were really as good a team as we all thought just 2 weeks ago, then you could argue 2 games, but we obviously are not as good as we all thought.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
Station - WilliamsArenaGuy is right, I'm MinnesotaPride.


A few of the things I love - The Gophers. Truth. Balance. Honesty.

A few things that I don't love or hate - Tubby Smith.

A few things that I HATE - Liars. Hypocrites. Exaggeration. Manipulation. Cheaters.




If someone came to the GH and tried arguing that America was the worst country ever, I'd defend America. But if someone came to the GH and tried arguing that America was the best country ever, I might be inspired to point out some of its faults.

Balance.


Someone tries to make Tubby Smith out to be more than he is, I would probably be inspired to point out his faults. But no, here at the GH, we have people trying to make Tubby Smith out to be worse than he is or deserves, so I am inspired to point out his good points. Simply trying to bring balance to the equation. With so many extremely negative posters here all bashing Tubby pretty badly, I end up looking like I am a Tubby Smith backer. I'm not necessarily a Tubby Smith backer. If all the Tubby haters left and only Tubby lovers remained, I'd evolve into the forum's biggest Tubby critic, in order to bring balance to the equation.


I don't dislike Shaka Smart, in fact, if I heard tomorrow that he was going to be our new coach, I wouldn't know what to think. I wouldn't be overjoyed, but I definitely wouldn't be angry. I'd do just as I'm going to to with Tubby and this season's Gophers. I'm going to wait until the season is all done and over with, and then I'm going to wait some more to see about the 2014 recruiting class. If Shaka took over at the end of the season and landed 2 or all 3 of the top Mn guys from 2014, I would consider that a very good start to his career here. If Tubby gets 2 or all 3 of them here, no matter how the season turns out, I'll be pleased and hopeful about our future.

I'm not going to say that Tubby has to do this or that this year, because I don't know what to expect yet. If we lose Trev to injury or Dre, or something like that, then expecting a Sweet 16 trip would be expecting too much. So far this season, Tubby's lost ONE game that he shouldn't have. JUST ONE. If we were really as good a team as we all thought just 2 weeks ago, then you could argue 2 games, but we obviously are not as good as we all thought.
Click to expand...

I always appreciate a sense of balance....there are always two sides(at least) to a story.

There are many 'blind followers' of Tubby and I often try point out many of the 'red flags' I have seen which probably makes me come off as negative.

Like any coach or program, there are always good and bad points.

As far as Tubby, I have just seen too many of the same reoccurring issues. How the remainder of this year plays out will be very interesting. Next year does not look that promising at this point and I wonder how the state of the program will be viewed by our local recruits of the 2014 class.

If you check out the message boards of other teams you will undoubtedly wonder how those fans can view their team so highly. The same thing happen on GopherHole. No teams are as good as many of their fans believe.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom