Post 1961 football Program Decline

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There have been a lot of good ideas talked about, looking backwards.

But looking forwards, there is something that has to be factored in: what about Wisconsin and Washington? Two relatively low population states, similar to Minnesota. And Washington is right in a fairly large urban environment with pro sports, like Minnesota. All three are very large, public flagship research universities.

If those two can be in the hunt for CFP playoff spots, there is no reason that Minnesota can't achieve the same.
 

badgergopher said:
I thin I've heard a lot about the factors you mention. I'd add the move to two platoon football. Single platoon football required 11 great players. Modern two platoon football with substitutions requires 25-30. I think this is tough on a state that only produces 8-10 D1 players a year.
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Good point. Warmath did better under the one-platoon system, though the Gophers didn't get shoved aside by the Vikings 'til the late Sixties. Gopher facilities were bad, including Memorial, which was then over 40 years old. By '70, Gophers were playing losing football and the Vikings were getting all the attention with Bud Grant aboard. After that, we all know - poor facilities, many sub-par coaches, etc.
 

BT West is soft and it has been since the days of yore (like 2010). If Mn misses this down cycle to get up then it's possible we could see 15-20 more years of IA NEB WI beat downs. If Fleck fails the next coach will be it'll be tactician coach(non white person) and when he fails it'll be salesman coach and on and on the MN coaching cycle will go.
 

I am sure there are many reasons for the decline, some of which the U had nothing to do with, and others the U had no desire to deal with. Here are a couple that I remember. I lived in Chicago from 1980 to 1984 and attended the BIG 10 Kick-off luncheons all of the 4 years. Going into 82 (I think) Joe Salem was the Coach, Paul Giel (sp?) was the AD. The lunch was held at the old Palmer House Hotel in downtown Chicago and bowl representative from all the major bowls were in attendance. I walked into the lobby of the hotel and every BIG 10 School had booths, with uniforms, schedules, filmed highlights, cheerleaders, etc. except for ONE school, Minnesota. We had a small table with some pocket schedules laid out on it and nobody in the booth. My thoughts were that we had thrown in the towel. It was embarrassing. One other key time was the departure of Sweet Lou Holtz. The U could have done way more to try and keep Lou from bolting to Notre Dame but instead did nothing. I remember going to a Goal Line Club Lunch shortly after Gutey was named head coach and our AD said that they were going to let the football program "seek its own level" whatever that was supposed to mean. I sensed a collective sigh of relief from the athletic department when Holtz left for ND. All of the hoop-la and marketing and 60,000 at the spring game, etc, came from what Lou was doing, NOT what the U or the marketing team was doing. When he left, I think they were secretly relieved about it because now they could go back to "business as usual". They had no clue what the ingredients were to making this a winning program, and if the DID, they certainly didn't want to pursue it.
 

Hockeytown said:
BT West is soft and it has been since the days of yore (like 2010). If Mn misses this down cycle to get up then it's possible we could see 15-20 more years of IA NEB WI beat downs. If Fleck fails the next coach will be it'll be tactician coach(non white person) and when he fails it'll be salesman coach and on and on the MN coaching cycle will go.
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It will be interesting to see who the next non-white tactician coach will be. Do you have a few names you could share with the rest of us who aren’t in your circles?


I'm thinking maybe Uncle Rico if he can draw up a few more plays in the backyard.
 
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go4rob said:
I am sure there are many reasons for the decline, some of which the U had nothing to do with, and others the U had no desire to deal with. Here are a couple that I remember. I lived in Chicago from 1980 to 1984 and attended the BIG 10 Kick-off luncheons all of the 4 years. Going into 82 (I think) Joe Salem was the Coach, Paul Giel (sp?) was the AD. The lunch was held at the old Palmer House Hotel in downtown Chicago and bowl representative from all the major bowls were in attendance. I walked into the lobby of the hotel and every BIG 10 School had booths, with uniforms, schedules, filmed highlights, cheerleaders, etc. except for ONE school, Minnesota. We had a small table with some pocket schedules laid out on it and nobody in the booth. My thoughts were that we had thrown in the towel. It was embarrassing. One other key time was the departure of Sweet Lou Holtz. The U could have done way more to try and keep Lou from bolting to Notre Dame but instead did nothing. I remember going to a Goal Line Club Lunch shortly after Gutey was named head coach and our AD said that they were going to let the football program "seek its own level" whatever that was supposed to mean. I sensed a collective sigh of relief from the athletic department when Holtz left for ND. All of the hoop-la and marketing and 60,000 at the spring game, etc, came from what Lou was doing, NOT what the U or the marketing team was doing. When he left, I think they were secretly relieved about it because now they could go back to "business as usual". They had no clue what the ingredients were to making this a winning program, and if the DID, they certainly didn't want to pursue it.
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Great post thanks for sharing. I also agree with you on Holtz...they made no effort and the U was the hot ticket. I remember the Oaklahoma game well it was as loud as the Dome ever was and it was an absolute blast! Interesting on the booth thing, it's like they can't get out of their own way most of the time. Hopefully that is done happening. Make the commitment admin as a solid sports program has shown time and again to increase donations and admissions!
 

John Galt said:
It will be interesting to see who the next non-white tactician coach will be. Do you have a few names you could share with the rest of us who aren’t in your circles?


I'm thinking maybe Uncle Rico if he can draw up a few more plays in the backyard.
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Exactly. -Dignan
 

Regarding Washington doing better with the Seahawks in town relative to how the Gophers have done with the Vikings in town, the key is that the Huskies got really good just as the Seahawks were formed. Don James took over in 1975. The Seattle Seahawks had their inaugural season in 1976. Washington won the Rose Bowl in 1977. That 1977 season started a run of 16 seasons through 1992 in which Washington made 14 bowl games, including 6 Rose Bowls with 4 wins, and one shared National Championship. By comparison, the Seahawks had 4 playoff appearances in that same 16 season span, all concentrated in a 5 season span. They won 1 AFC West title and had 7 losing seasons with only 2 double digit win seasons in that run.

The following comedown era for the Huskies was gradual and coincided with average to bad Seahawks teams and an aborted attempted move to Los Angeles (the NFL put the brakes on that one) that badly alienated the fans for a few years. When the Seahawks started their big leap in 2003, the Huskies got really bad at the same time, but had banked enough good will and hardcore fans to withstand it and made some big facilities upgrades. By comparison, the Gophers started to badly fall off just as the Vikes rose to dominance. The last Big Ten title was in 1967. The Vikes won their first division title in 1968, were in the Super Bowl by 1969, and then had their great teams in the 1970s while the Gophers slid further from view apart from a few outlier seasons.

One thing that harmed the Gophers was that the Big Ten and what is now the PAC-12 had a deal with the Rose Bowl to only send a representative to that game and no other teams to any other bowls. This agreement lasted through the 1974 season. The need for bowl revenue among the member schools and some outstanding Ohio State and Michigan teams being home for the holidays during the Woody vs. Bo era led to teams going to bowls other than the Rose Bowl beginning with the 1975 seasons. This is important because the Gophers would probably have gone to bowls, even though there were far fewer back then, in 1962, 1967, and 1973, maybe 1968 as well. Going to bowls would have increased fan interest and perhaps rolled in a tide that could have helped with recruiting and led to improved teams in some of the non bowl seasons. By the time Big Ten teams could go to games other than the Rose Bowl, the rot of the previous decade had set in too deeply apart from the one off game in 1977 and the Holtz/Gutey year one bounce.
 

go4rob said:
I am sure there are many reasons for the decline, some of which the U had nothing to do with, and others the U had no desire to deal with. Here are a couple that I remember. I lived in Chicago from 1980 to 1984 and attended the BIG 10 Kick-off luncheons all of the 4 years. Going into 82 (I think) Joe Salem was the Coach, Paul Giel (sp?) was the AD. The lunch was held at the old Palmer House Hotel in downtown Chicago and bowl representative from all the major bowls were in attendance. I walked into the lobby of the hotel and every BIG 10 School had booths, with uniforms, schedules, filmed highlights, cheerleaders, etc. except for ONE school, Minnesota. We had a small table with some pocket schedules laid out on it and nobody in the booth. My thoughts were that we had thrown in the towel. It was embarrassing. One other key time was the departure of Sweet Lou Holtz. The U could have done way more to try and keep Lou from bolting to Notre Dame but instead did nothing. I remember going to a Goal Line Club Lunch shortly after Gutey was named head coach and our AD said that they were going to let the football program "seek its own level" whatever that was supposed to mean. I sensed a collective sigh of relief from the athletic department when Holtz left for ND. All of the hoop-la and marketing and 60,000 at the spring game, etc, came from what Lou was doing, NOT what the U or the marketing team was doing. When he left, I think they were secretly relieved about it because now they could go back to "business as usual". They had no clue what the ingredients were to making this a winning program, and if the DID, they certainly didn't want to pursue it.
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That little table with schedules while everyone else was going big is sad to hear about, but not surprising given the state of the athletic department and football program at the time. Regarding doing more to have kept Lou Holtz, I'm not sure what the U of M could have realistically done apart from making sure his contract prohibited him from making such a move, a clause that Holtz might have seen as a deal breaker to coming to Minnesota in the first place. We were always a stopover for him on the way to his destination, whether that was Notre Dame or some other legacy program (the Alabama job opened up after the 1986 season for instance), or an ambitious school willing to give him and the program a ton of money along the lines of when Jackie Sherrill left a National Championship favorite at Pitt to take the Texas A&M job in 1982 when the Aggies were in a rut and looking for a big statement hire. I am sorry Holtz left because it took until the 1999 season to get casual fans interested in great numbers again, but mainly wish Gerry Faust could have done well enough at Notre Dame to hang on longer and at least postpone Holtz's departure which was always inevitable.
 



Sports_Realist said:
That little table with schedules while everyone else was going big is sad to hear about, but not surprising given the state of the athletic department and football program at the time. Regarding doing more to have kept Lou Holtz, I'm not sure what the U of M could have realistically done apart from making sure his contract prohibited him from making such a move, a clause that Holtz might have seen as a deal breaker to coming to Minnesota in the first place. We were always a stopover for him on the way to his destination, whether that was Notre Dame or some other legacy program (the Alabama job opened up after the 1986 season for instance), or an ambitious school willing to give him and the program a ton of money along the lines of when Jackie Sherrill left a National Championship favorite at Pitt to take the Texas A&M job in 1982 when the Aggies were in a rut and looking for a big statement hire. I am sorry Holtz left because it took until the 1999 season to get casual fans interested in great numbers again, but mainly wish Gerry Faust could have done well enough at Notre Dame to hang on longer and at least postpone Holtz's departure which was always inevitable.
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'You're Batman!' - Geo. Costanza

you are poster of the year.
 

Sports_Realist said:
Regarding Washington doing better with the Seahawks in town relative to how the Gophers have done with the Vikings in town, the key is that the Huskies got really good just as the Seahawks were formed. Don James took over in 1975. The Seattle Seahawks had their inaugural season in 1976. Washington won the Rose Bowl in 1977. That 1977 season started a run of 16 seasons through 1992 in which Washington made 14 bowl games, including 6 Rose Bowls with 4 wins, and one shared National Championship. By comparison, the Seahawks had 4 playoff appearances in that same 16 season span, all concentrated in a 5 season span. They won 1 AFC West title and had 7 losing seasons with only 2 double digit win seasons in that run.

The following comedown era for the Huskies was gradual and coincided with average to bad Seahawks teams and an aborted attempted move to Los Angeles (the NFL put the brakes on that one) that badly alienated the fans for a few years. When the Seahawks started their big leap in 2003, the Huskies got really bad at the same time, but had banked enough good will and hardcore fans to withstand it and made some big facilities upgrades. By comparison, the Gophers started to badly fall off just as the Vikes rose to dominance. The last Big Ten title was in 1967. The Vikes won their first division title in 1968, were in the Super Bowl by 1969, and then had their great teams in the 1970s while the Gophers slid further from view apart from a few outlier seasons.

One thing that harmed the Gophers was that the Big Ten and what is now the PAC-12 had a deal with the Rose Bowl to only send a representative to that game and no other teams to any other bowls. This agreement lasted through the 1974 season. The need for bowl revenue among the member schools and some outstanding Ohio State and Michigan teams being home for the holidays during the Woody vs. Bo era led to teams going to bowls other than the Rose Bowl beginning with the 1975 seasons. This is important because the Gophers would probably have gone to bowls, even though there were far fewer back then, in 1962, 1967, and 1973, maybe 1968 as well. Going to bowls would have increased fan interest and perhaps rolled in a tide that could have helped with recruiting and led to improved teams in some of the non bowl seasons. By the time Big Ten teams could go to games other than the Rose Bowl, the rot of the previous decade had set in too deeply apart from the one off game in 1977 and the Holtz/Gutey year one bounce.
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Great post!!! Thank you for sharing!

The similarities between Minnesota (Mpls) and Washington (Seattle), both as states (metros) and flagship public (medical) research universities, are pretty high relative to some other states.

So it pleases me to see Washington, and Wisconsin, ranked very high in pre-season polls, in the sense of what should be possible at Minnesota, given proper resources and support.
 

Sports_Realist said:
That little table with schedules while everyone else was going big is sad to hear about, but not surprising given the state of the athletic department and football program at the time. Regarding doing more to have kept Lou Holtz, I'm not sure what the U of M could have realistically done apart from making sure his contract prohibited him from making such a move, a clause that Holtz might have seen as a deal breaker to coming to Minnesota in the first place. We were always a stopover for him on the way to his destination, whether that was Notre Dame or some other legacy program (the Alabama job opened up after the 1986 season for instance), or an ambitious school willing to give him and the program a ton of money along the lines of when Jackie Sherrill left a National Championship favorite at Pitt to take the Texas A&M job in 1982 when the Aggies were in a rut and looking for a big statement hire. I am sorry Holtz left because it took until the 1999 season to get casual fans interested in great numbers again, but mainly wish Gerry Faust could have done well enough at Notre Dame to hang on longer and at least postpone Holtz's departure which was always inevitable.
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There was nothing the U could have done to prevent that move. I know the "Notre Dame" clause has supposedly been debunked, but my dad still swears he remembers Holtz saying in his introductory press conference that the only place he'd ever leave for was Notre Dame. I did a search and I can't find the video so no idea if it's true or if it was a figment of his imagination (neither would surprise me). Regardless, the U could have given him the entire city of Minneapolis and all it's residents as his personal servants and he would have left. There was no way he wasn't going to take that job. Any of the other helmet schools they might have persuaded him, but not Notre Dame. That was his dream job.
 

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