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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
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Through 5 games so far, some troubling things of note that haven't been discussed much;

> Defense has had at least one late hit/personal foul penalty in every game so far except UNH (if I'm not mistaken). Poor discipline, or not being able to handle emotions, that just can't continue to happen.

> For at least the second time this season, against Iowa the Gophers had another player on punt return WAY WAY WAY too close to the loose ball as it was rolling to a stop, almost losing possession again by touching the ball inadvertently. This time it was a true Freshman if I'm not mistaken (Demarious Travis?). This is just inexcusable, and maddening.

> I think this has been discussed but kick return has been a major disappointment. Not even close to breaking anything of significance, unless you consider the return after the safety free kick. Is it the change in kickoff position? Did they lose a couple of unheralded Special Teams players to graduation last year? Hard to believe with returners like Jones and Troy that they can't do more. The only upside is, they haven't allowed anything major on kick coverage this year either.

Just a few things hopefully they can get cleaned up.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Through 5 games so far, some troubling things of note that haven't been discussed much;

> Defense has had at least one late hit/personal foul penalty in every game so far except UNH (if I'm not mistaken). Poor discipline, or not being able to handle emotions, that just can't continue to happen.

> For at least the second time this season, against Iowa the Gophers had another player on punt return WAY WAY WAY too close to the loose ball as it was rolling to a stop, almost losing possession again by touching the ball inadvertently. This time it was a true Freshman if I'm not mistaken (Demarious Travis?). This is just inexcusable, and maddening.

> I think this has been discussed but kick return has been a major disappointment. Not even close to breaking anything of significance, unless you consider the return after the safety free kick. Is it the change in kickoff position? Did they lose a couple of unheralded Special Teams players to graduation last year? Hard to believe with returners like Jones and Troy that they can't do more. The only upside is, they haven't allowed anything major on kick coverage this year either.

Just a few things hopefully they can get cleaned up.
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I think it was the same player in both games.
 

When your team is letting the punt go, just get away from the ball. I don't know what he was thinking, perhaps he was unaware that the team was letting the punt go.

As far as late hits go, being aggressive is good, but you have to be able to know when to stand down.
 

I was screaming at the TV to show us the replay of the Kieth personal foul call. It was a big call in the game and we NEVER saw a replay. The ESPN2 coverage was brutal in that regard.

In game one, it was Edwards who backed into the punt on punt coverage.

As mentioned in another thread, Troy S. has been a major disappointment this year. Dropped punt, poor decision making on kick returns and blow coverage on the flee-flicker.
 

Nate said:
I think it was the same player in both games.
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And were very lucky the ref blew the call. No way was he pushed into the ball. Just a really stupid play by our guy. Run away from the ball!!
 


Stan The Caddy said:
I was screaming at the TV to show us the replay of the Kieth personal foul call. It was a big call in the game and we NEVER saw a replay. The ESPN2 coverage was brutal in that regard.

In game one, it was Edwards who backed into the punt on punt coverage.

As mentioned in another thread, Troy S. has been a major disappointment this year. Dropped punt, poor decision making on kick returns and blow coverage on the flee-flicker.
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I agree, Troy has been very underwhelming this year so far! As a Senior, I was really expecting a lot out of him, and he has really been lacking on Special Teams so far IMO. His coverage has been pretty good I think outside of the flea-flicker in the Iowa game and the Pass Interference call in the endzone after the botched punt against UNLV. Hopefully he can step it up, because I expected a lot more out of him.

With coverage though, I think it is worth to mention the great job Michael Carter has been doing so far this year! It is scary to think how good he could be if he would have had his head on straight the whole time he has been here!
 

I don't know for sure what happened on that punt, but from my couch it was reasonable to assume that the player simply didn't hear anyone yelling "poison" or whatever the Gophers yell to tell the players that the ball is dead. IIRC, he was looking to his right sideline, and the action was happening behind him. Whatever the reason was, it is an item the needs to be cleaned up.
 

tikited said:
And were very lucky the ref blew the call. No way was he pushed into the ball. Just a really stupid play by our guy. Run away from the ball!!
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Huh? He was totally blocked into the ball.
 




FreakyDeke said:
Huh? He was totally blocked into the ball.
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Not even close to pushed/blocked. He and the Iowa player got into it at the same time. To me it looked like Travis and the Iowa player were shoving each other and Travis backed into the ball. If Mr. Travis wouldn't have engaged in the contact, then yes. This is coming from a college coach I talked to and his understanding of the rule.

Didn't the ref actually say that he didn't touch the ball? If so, they really, really blew the call because he clearly did.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Through 5 games so far, some troubling things of note that haven't been discussed much;

> Defense has had at least one late hit/personal foul penalty in every game so far except UNH (if I'm not mistaken). Poor discipline, or not being able to handle emotions, that just can't continue to happen.

> For at least the second time this season, against Iowa the Gophers had another player on punt return WAY WAY WAY too close to the loose ball as it was rolling to a stop, almost losing possession again by touching the ball inadvertently. This time it was a true Freshman if I'm not mistaken (Demarious Travis?). This is just inexcusable, and maddening.

> I think this has been discussed but kick return has been a major disappointment. Not even close to breaking anything of significance, unless you consider the return after the safety free kick. Is it the change in kickoff position? Did they lose a couple of unheralded Special Teams players to graduation last year? Hard to believe with returners like Jones and Troy that they can't do more. The only upside is, they haven't allowed anything major on kick coverage this year either.

Just a few things hopefully they can get cleaned up.
Click to expand...

I'm not even going to pretend to act like I remember all the late hits/personal fouls, but sometimes these can be looked at as a good thing. For example, a roughing the passer is a late hit/personal foul, but it can also be looked at as getting to the QB. A late hit on the sidelines could be looked at as flying to the ball - depending how late it is.

Some are undisciplined penalties, but others are just being aggressive.
 

For me, I was expecting improvements in the kicking and punting games. Thus far, Jordan Wettstein is 4 of 9 on field goals and we are 10th in the B1G Ten for net punting yards. These types of performaces will doom us in some close game this season.

As other people mentioned, we all expected Troy Stoudermire to have a ton of KR yards this season too.
 

tikited said:
Not even close to pushed/blocked. He and the Iowa player got into it at the same time. To me it looked like Travis and the Iowa player were shoving each other and Travis backed into the ball. If Mr. Travis wouldn't have engaged in the contact, then yes. This is coming from a college coach I talked to and his understanding of the rule.

Didn't the ref actually say that he didn't touch the ball? If so, they really, really blew the call because he clearly did.
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I'm pretty sure he said he was blocked into the ball so that's why it wasn't Iowa's ball.
 



They are kicking away from Stoudermire for the most part.

Go Gophers Rah said:
For me, I was expecting improvements in the kicking and punting games. Thus far, Jordan Wettstein is 4 of 9 on field goals and we are 10th in the B1G Ten for net punting yards. These types of performaces will doom us in some close game this season.

As other people mentioned, we all expected Troy Stoudermire to have a ton of KR yards this season too.
Click to expand...
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
For me, I was expecting improvements in the kicking and punting games. Thus far, Jordan Wettstein is 4 of 9 on field goals and we are 10th in the B1G Ten for net punting yards. These types of performaces will doom us in some close game this season.

As other people mentioned, we all expected Troy Stoudermire to have a ton of KR yards this season too.
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I am surprised we haven't seen Hawthorne yet since Wettstein has struggled so much.
 

Nate said:
I think it was the same player in both games.
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It was Lamonte Edwards in the UNLV game who almost (I thought did) ran into the punted ball rolling around on the ground.

On the roughing the passer penalty against Iowa, you just caught a glimpse of it before the camera started following the ball on the pass. It was close. When I saw it happen I flinched, thinking that it was close, but then yelled at the ref through the TV when I saw that they called it. Would've liked a replay.
 

tikited said:
Not even close to pushed/blocked. He and the Iowa player got into it at the same time. To me it looked like Travis and the Iowa player were shoving each other and Travis backed into the ball.
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I'm curious what you think "blocking" is. They were engaged because Travis was trying to block him from getting to the ball/returner, didn't have awareness that the returner had let the ball go, and the guy he was blocking (or shoving as you say) "shoved" him toward the ball so that he would touch it.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm pretty sure he said he was blocked into the ball so that's why it wasn't Iowa's ball.
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That is right. The play was reviewed and that was the ruling. I may be wrong but I don't believe the experts on the GopherHole can overrule the refs but maybe they can.:confused:
 

Killjoy said:
That is right. The play was reviewed and that was the ruling. I may be wrong but I don't believe the experts on the GopherHole can overrule the refs but maybe they can.:confused:
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Never said I was an expert. In fact, I was repeating what a coach told me what he believed to be the rule. I, again, don't think it was an obvious block/shove that caused Travis to hit the ball with his foot. He (stupidly) engaged in contact with another player-that is not being blocked into the ball. I tried to find the play on-line to get another look but couldn't. Doesn't matter now, but it wasn't like the Iowa guy creamed into him making him fall into the ball. No matter what-the kid needs to get the hell out of area.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm pretty sure he said he was blocked into the ball so that's why it wasn't Iowa's ball.
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The announcers were idiots and when the Gophers challenged, they kept saying that the Gophers were challenging because they don't think Travis hit the ball. They were obviously dead wrong because I'm not sure they understood the rules. They caused the confusion.
 

tikited said:
Never said I was an expert. In fact, I was repeating what a coach told me what he believed to be the rule. I, again, don't think it was an obvious block/shove that caused Travis to hit the ball with his foot. He (stupidly) engaged in contact with another player-that is not being blocked into the ball. I tried to find the play on-line to get another look but couldn't. Doesn't matter now, but it wasn't like the Iowa guy creamed into him making him fall into the ball. No matter what-the kid needs to get the hell out of area.
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I agree with you in that it shouldn't have even been close enough to make it an issue. I don't think it was a matter of a mental mistake as much as it was a matter of him not hearing Barker. Maybe it was Barker's issue (I have no idea, just saying we don't know) and Barker should have kept being adament and continued yelling "poison, poison". I don't know.

That said, the call is pretty clear. He doesn't need to be creamed into the ball or even like forcibly moved into the ball. That slight amount of blocking is always enough for them to say he was blocked into the ball.
 

e.bigelow said:
I agree, Troy has been very underwhelming this year so far! As a Senior, I was really expecting a lot out of him, and he has really been lacking on Special Teams so far IMO. His coverage has been pretty good I think outside of the flea-flicker in the Iowa game and the Pass Interference call in the endzone after the botched punt against UNLV. Hopefully he can step it up, because I expected a lot more out of him.

With coverage though, I think it is worth to mention the great job Michael Carter has been doing so far this year! It is scary to think how good he could be if he would have had his head on straight the whole time he has been here!
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The flea-ficker was on Cedric Thompson. If you watched the play, you'll notice that the CB didn't really get sucked into the flea-flicker, but Thompson jumped all the way into the trenches. To me, it seemed pretty obvious that our safety got burned on that play.

I actually think Troy has been really good this year. Syracuse and Western Michigan are both offenses that have been on fire and our pass defense really shut them down (or slowed them down a lot). A huge part of that is the boundary corner, it's the toughest position in our secondary and it makes Troy have to play a lot of 1 on 1 WHILE setting the edge against the run. Troy struggled for that brief segment in the UNLV game and he also struggled setting the edge in OT against UNLV. Other than that, I think he's been really good.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree with you in that it shouldn't have even been close enough to make it an issue. I don't think it was a matter of a mental mistake as much as it was a matter of him not hearing Barker. Maybe it was Barker's issue (I have no idea, just saying we don't know) and Barker should have kept being adament and continued yelling "poison, poison". I don't know.

That said, the call is pretty clear. He doesn't need to be creamed into the ball or even like forcibly moved into the ball. That slight amount of blocking is always enough for them to say he was blocked into the ball.
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If that is the rule then that is the rule. Should have known better than to trust a O-line coach.
 

A call that really screwed us was the catch Fruechte/Barker? When they said he bobbled the ball. Clearly didn't.
 

GG07 said:
A call that really screwed us was the catch Fruechte/Barker? When they said he bobbled the ball. Clearly didn't.
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it was engel and a terrible call. He clearly had possession IMO with a foot in bounds. After that the tire really deflated on the offense.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree with you in that it shouldn't have even been close enough to make it an issue. I don't think it was a matter of a mental mistake as much as it was a matter of him not hearing Barker. Maybe it was Barker's issue (I have no idea, just saying we don't know) and Barker should have kept being adament and continued yelling "poison, poison". I don't know.

That said, the call is pretty clear. He doesn't need to be creamed into the ball or even like forcibly moved into the ball. That slight amount of blocking is always enough for them to say he was blocked into the ball.
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Speaking of Barker, I was disappointed in his play in the 1.5 quarters I got to watch. First, he didn't even seem to fight for the ball when it was taken away from him on Shortell's first interception. I think that interception was as much on him as it was on Shortell. Second, the punt in question. He's normally made smart decisions on punt returns but IMHO this wasn't one of them. I really thought he could've just called for a fair catch and caught the ball. That would've prevented a potentially inadvertant touching of the ball. I thought I read somewhere that Kill prefers his punt returners to catch the ball rather than let it hit the ground an bounce around. I could be wrong.

By the way Tikited, what ever happened to your "what to do" threads? I always enjoyed reading those and always picked the "A. Drink Heavily" for my what to do until game time. :)
 

WaterBoy said:
By the way Tikited, what ever happened to your "what to do" threads? I always enjoyed reading those and always picked the "A. Drink Heavily" for my what to do until game time. :)
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Ratings were way down.

Seriously, I wasn't getting any responses anymore. The vibe was getting bad that season with Brew being fired and all. Thanks though, I appreciate it.
 

tikited said:
Ratings were way down.

Seriously, I wasn't getting any responses anymore. The vibe was getting bad that season with Brew being fired and all. Thanks though, I appreciate it.
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True. Those were tough times.
 

tikited said:
Ratings were way down.

Seriously, I wasn't getting any responses anymore. The vibe was getting bad that season with Brew being fired and all. Thanks though, I appreciate it.
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I think it would be a little different now. I enjoyed those threads as well.
 

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