Marcus Blog: Vikings could pay Gophers $3 million per season to use TCF Bank Stadium

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charge em more! we got em by the balls.... er horns!
 

4 years should be enough time or the NFL to trash TCF with temporary bleachers, advertising and whatever else they want to do to the stadium.
 

Parski1 said:
4 years should be enough time or the NFL to trash TCF with temporary bleachers, advertising and whatever else they want to do to the stadium.
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Wut?

First, there is an agreement in case the team needs more time, but the plan is to play 1 (maybe 1.5 to 2) seasons at TCF, not 4. Second, temporary bleachers are temporary. So...yea. As for advertising. I say again, wut? There is a giant scoreboard and ribbon boards. That is where the ads go. What ad related boogey men are you fearing?

There is a letter of intent that gets signed. It says specifically what the Vikes must pay for and what they can do. They don't get to run hog wild.
 

GoAUpher said:
Wut?

First, there is an agreement in case the team needs more time, but the plan is to play 1 (maybe 1.5 to 2) seasons at TCF, not 4. Second, temporary bleachers are temporary. So...yea. As for advertising. I say again, wut? There is a giant scoreboard and ribbon boards. That is where the ads go. What ad related boogey men are you fearing?

There is a letter of intent that gets signed. It says specifically what the Vikes must pay for and what they can do. They don't get to run hog wild.
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Unlike the other Barbarians of old such as the Huns, Mongols, Saxons, etc.
 


GoAUpher said:
Wut?

First, there is an agreement in case the team needs more time, but the plan is to play 1 (maybe 1.5 to 2) seasons at TCF, not 4. Second, temporary bleachers are temporary. So...yea. As for advertising. I say again, wut? There is a giant scoreboard and ribbon boards. That is where the ads go. What ad related boogey men are you fearing?

There is a letter of intent that gets signed. It says specifically what the Vikes must pay for and what they can do. They don't get to run hog wild.
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perhaps this one?

boogeyman-lookon.jpg
 






MrGopher said:
...and scoreboard and sound system for Mariucci...
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They'll be getting that soon with the seating fees. They've already got the new scoreboard design out there for The Barn.
 

This is a good deal for the U. $3,000,000 per year, plus, plus the Vikings will pay for heating the installation of heating coils. It's good publicity, people will be seeing that "M" on the field every game. Advertising won't bother the Gophers, as the digital signage can be changed at the flip of a switch. The Gophers banners at the Metrodome didn't interfere with Vikings games, they just took those banners down after the game was over. It will be the same with TCF. If the Vikings want some temporary banners, they will come down after the game.

The U had some leverage, but it is finite. If the U asked for too much, the Vikings could easily have played in another city while the Vikings' stadium was under construction.
 

RodentRampage said:
The U had some leverage, but it is finite. If the U asked for too much, the Vikings could easily have played in another city while the Vikings' stadium was under construction.
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Really? And what city would that be? The nearest places with stadiums the correct size with anything approaching the correct ammenities are Green Bay, Madison, and Iowa City. How do you see that working? Also, the Vikings paid more money in rent each game to the MSFC for the Dome. Asking for more would simply have gotten the Vikings up to paying what they pay now.
 

Anyone remember an estimated cost to put the additional 30,000 seat deck on the TCF? I wonder if the Vikings will be content with the size of the field now or if this will spur more construction. We've talked before that it would be nice to get the additional seats put in partly paid by the NFL. It will be interesting to see if there is any chatter abou tthat...
 



GoAUpher said:
Really? And what city would that be? The nearest places with stadiums the correct size with anything approaching the correct ammenities are Green Bay, Madison, and Iowa City. How do you see that working? Also, the Vikings paid more money in rent each game to the MSFC for the Dome. Asking for more would simply have gotten the Vikings up to paying what they pay now.
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I never said the Vikings would have had to play in a nearby stadium, so yes, really. There are a number of other stadiums around the country that the Vikings would play at for a season if they had been unable to make an agreement with the U. The Saints played a season at San Antonio. That's about a 9 hour drive from New Orleans, which is not an insignificant distance. If the U had made unreasonable demands, the Vikings could easily have played their games in Iowa, or any other stadium around the country. The U didn't really have the Vkings over a barrel.
 

Sparlimb said:
Anyone remember an estimated cost to put the additional 30,000 seat deck on the TCF? I wonder if the Vikings will be content with the size of the field now or if this will spur more construction. We've talked before that it would be nice to get the additional seats put in partly paid by the NFL. It will be interesting to see if there is any chatter abou tthat...
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They'll put temporary bleachers up in the endzone. No chance we put in additional seats when we have trouble filling the stadium as is.
 

Sparlimb said:
Anyone remember an estimated cost to put the additional 30,000 seat deck on the TCF? I wonder if the Vikings will be content with the size of the field now or if this will spur more construction. We've talked before that it would be nice to get the additional seats put in partly paid by the NFL. It will be interesting to see if there is any chatter abou tthat...
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I don't think anyone knows because those numbers (and the plans) have never been public. All we really know about a 3rd level is that the footings already exist and that it can be built to be flush with the existing exterior.

Any expansion now would be folly though, even if the Vikings did finance it. First, they'd only want to add about half the expandable capacity (at best...they prob only care about expanding by 5K-7K to cover their STH base) which could look visually unappealing. Then there is the fact that the stadium doesn't sell out as is. Which means the U would simply be costing themselves even more home field advantage every time NE, IA, or WI came to town.
 

RodentRampage said:
I never said the Vikings would have had to play in a nearby stadium, so yes, really. There are a number of other stadiums around the country that the Vikings would play at for a season if they had been unable to make an agreement with the U. The Saints played a season at San Antonio. That's about a 9 hour drive from New Orleans, which is not an insignificant distance. If the U had made unreasonable demands, the Vikings could easily have played their games in Iowa, or any other stadium around the country. The U didn't really have the Vkings over a barrel.
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So the Vikings are going to play hours and hours away. How would they make money? Most of their season ticket holders can't attend those games. They would lose even more money then they will lose playing in TCF. Playing in Iowa would provide the same problems given that the vast % of their STH base is in the metro and surrounding areas. Was it possible? Anything is possible. Was it ever a rational, actual consideration? No.

The Saints played in San Antonio because their stadium and city were in ruins. They weren't worried about whether their STH could come because their season ticket holders were already busy making sure they had places to live until their homes and city were inhabitable again. To say the comparison is apples to oranges is a vast understatement.
 

GoAUpher said:
Really? And what city would that be? The nearest places with stadiums the correct size with anything approaching the correct ammenities are Green Bay, Madison, and Iowa City. How do you see that working? Also, the Vikings paid more money in rent each game to the MSFC for the Dome. Asking for more would simply have gotten the Vikings up to paying what they pay now.
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Actually I think the Vikings paid zero rent for the Dome the last several years.
 

station19 said:
Actually I think the Vikings paid zero rent for the Dome the last several years.
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Incorrect according to the MSFC's own reports. See their 2012 budget here: http://www.msfc.com/content/doc/2012 BUDGET FINAL.pdf (full website with links to all their reports is here: http://www.msfc.com/detail.cfm/page/msfcSite_PXFZGZEB_AFOPHXGH/)

According to that document (see page 5), the Vikes paid approx 3.6 million in rent for 2009, 3.7 for 2010 (the 3 million price for TCF includes both rent and concessions) and were expected to pay even more for 2011 and 2012.
 

You gotta look at this from the Vikings' perspective. They're getting no revenue from concessions. If the U had charged them rent equal to what they would have been charged at the Dome, plus all the concessions revenue that would have been just unreasonable.
 

Parking?

RodentRampage said:
This is a good deal for the U. $3,000,000 per year, plus, plus the Vikings will pay for heating the installation of heating coils. It's good publicity, people will be seeing that "M" on the field every game. Advertising won't bother the Gophers, as the digital signage can be changed at the flip of a switch. The Gophers banners at the Metrodome didn't interfere with Vikings games, they just took those banners down after the game was over. It will be the same with TCF. If the Vikings want some temporary banners, they will come down after the game.

The U had some leverage, but it is finite. If the U asked for too much, the Vikings could easily have played in another city while the Vikings' stadium was under construction.
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I assume the U will get the parking fees also or will they be split? Using some quick conservative math and assumptions would yield the following: 12,000 cars at $8 per car times 10 games equals approximately one million dollars. How does one by stock in the U's Parking Services? The one assumption I would have to question is whether they have 12,000 spaces. Even if it is only half of that and you raise the price to $10 you still will generate $600,000.
 

Killjoy said:
I assume the U will get the parking fees also or will they be split? Using some quick conservative math and assumptions would yield the following: 12,000 cars at $8 per car times 10 games equals approximately one million dollars. How does one by stock in the U's Parking Services? The one assumption I would have to question is whether they have 12,000 spaces. Even it is only half of that and you raise the price to $10 you still will generate $600,000.
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The U will get parking as well I believe.
 

zambam said:
You gotta look at this from the Vikings' perspective. They're getting no revenue from concessions. If the U had charged them rent equal to what they would have been charged at the Dome, plus all the concessions revenue that would have been just unreasonable.
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Not true. The Vikes will get a TBD cut of concessions. See this section of the media release reposted by FBT:
In addition, concessions, sponsorship and advertising dollars will be divided between the parties under the terms of the Letter of Intent, said university General Counsel Mark Rotenberg. He stated that the additional revenue to the university is expected to be $50,000 per game, resulting in a combined rent and expected concessions and sponsorship revenue amount of $300,000 per game, or $3 million per regular NFL season.
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The Vikings should still be seeing considerable concessions revenue if the U is only getting $50,000 per game.
 

IIRC the gophers basketball played a couple of games on sunday and I think even one during a vikings game this past year. I hope when the vikes are playing in the bank they don't also have a basketball game scheduled for the barn. Wow would traffic and parking be bad. I hope thought is being given to this ahead of time.
 

Killjoy said:
I assume the U will get the parking fees also or will they be split? Using some quick conservative math and assumptions would yield the following: 12,000 cars at $8 per car times 10 games equals approximately one million dollars. How does one by stock in the U's Parking Services? The one assumption I would have to question is whether they have 12,000 spaces. Even if it is only half of that and you raise the price to $10 you still will generate $600,000.
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There are a little over 3,000 surface spots near TCF. Total parking spots on the East Bank are approx 12,000 when all the ramp, garage, and surface parking is combined (got that by going here and adding up all the spots for all the East Bank parking facilities). When you add in the West Bank you get just under 2,000 more spaces across ramps/lots. Obviously some portion of those will be used by normal Sunday parking users (hospital employees, visitors, etc). But there is a lot of parking inventory that could be available. Plus, since the plan is for TCF to be used after 2014 LRT will be another option for getting to the games.
 

CentralGopher said:
IIRC the gophers basketball played a couple of games on sunday and I think even one during a vikings game this past year. I hope when the vikes are playing in the bank they don't also have a basketball game scheduled for the barn. Wow would traffic and parking be bad. I hope thought is being given to this ahead of time.
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There is no way the U will schedule any events at the Barn or Mariucci when the Vikings are playing at TCF.

Go Cardinals.
 

CentralGopher said:
IIRC the gophers basketball played a couple of games on sunday and I think even one during a vikings game this past year. I hope when the vikes are playing in the bank they don't also have a basketball game scheduled for the barn. Wow would traffic and parking be bad. I hope thought is being given to this ahead of time.
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The Gophers played no home Sunday games during the Vikings' season. None at all, not even when the Vikings were away.
 

dpodoll68 said:
The Gophers played no home Sunday games during the Vikings' season. None at all, not even when the Vikings were away.
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While the gophers did not play at home during the season they did play twice on the same day as the vikings so it would be possible although probably highly unlikely due to stupid scheduling to have both playing at the same time at home. The gopher mens basketball team and the vikings both played on 11/27/11 and 1/1/12. On both occasions one team or the other was away while the other was at home. http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/min/year/2011 , http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/minn-m-baskbl-sched.html They also both played on 11/14/11 with the gophers playing at williams arena and the vikings at green bay so it is not unheard of for the gophers to play at home during the vikings season.
 

GoAUpher said:
So the Vikings are going to play hours and hours away. How would they make money? Most of their season ticket holders can't attend those games. They would lose even more money then they will lose playing in TCF. Playing in Iowa would provide the same problems given that the vast % of their STH base is in the metro and surrounding areas. Was it possible? Anything is possible. Was it ever a rational, actual consideration? No.

The Saints played in San Antonio because their stadium and city were in ruins. They weren't worried about whether their STH could come because their season ticket holders were already busy making sure they had places to live until their homes and city were inhabitable again. To say the comparison is apples to oranges is a vast understatement.
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It's clearly apples to apples. The Saints played at San Antonio because their stadium was trashed. But the same will be true of the Vikings: they will be playing at TCF because the Metrdome will be a pile of rubble. The Vikings playing at TCF Bank Stadium is rational under the terms of the agreement. But if the U had asked too much, it wouldn't be the rational choice, and they could have played elsewhere. It is obvious that there must exist a point which was too much for the U to ask, a point at which the Vikings would have refused the terms. The only question is did the U ask for too little.

The Vikings could play anywhere in the country for a year. Maybe they could have played in LA for a season. They still would have had TV coverage, and while season ticket holders wouldn't be able to make it to Vikings games if the games were held elsewhere, presumably there would be people interested in attending an NFL game at whatever site the Vikings played that year.
 

RodentRampage said:
It's clearly apples to apples. The Saints played at San Antonio because their stadium was trashed. But the same will be true of the Vikings: they will be playing at TCF because the Metrdome will be a pile of rubble.
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It's not apples to apples RR. It is true that in both scenarios the inability to play in the home stadium forced the move. But that's where the difference ends. The Saints couldn't, shouldn't have, and didn't get to worry about how they would move in way that made them money. They had to move right before the season began and they had to move to an area that wasn't devastated by a natural disaster. Even if they'd figured out a way to play in Baton Rouge @ LSU they couldn't expect their fans to follow them because their fans were just trying to put the pieces back together from a Category 5 Hurricane. You don't worry about inconveniencing your fans when they are worried about where they are living...by definition they are already inconvenienced (understatement) by a more important event. If you recall, it was an open question for some time whether the Saints would even return to NO.

In the Vikings case they have time to plan the move and want to do it in a way that minimizes inconvenience to their STH base. They have to do so because they need to keep making money while they leave.

RodentRampage said:
The Vikings playing at TCF Bank Stadium is rational under the terms of the agreement. But if the U had asked too much, it wouldn't be the rational choice, and they could have played elsewhere. It is obvious that there must exist a point which was too much for the U to ask, a point at which the Vikings would have refused the terms. The only question is did the U ask for too little.
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Of course the U could have eventually asked too much. If that's what you think I'm arguing then I apologize. But the U had way more room to operate. They aren't even getting what the Vikings were already paying in the Dome. Not even close. And the Vikings are getting a cut of the concession revenue. To say that the U was at the high end of what was acceptable would be laughable. Even if they had demanded slightly more favorable terms than what the MSFC got (which IMO would have been foolish from PR standpoint) I don't see how that puts the Vikings in a position to go anywhere else. The only viable location is Iowa City. Madison is out b/c it's in the heart of Packer country. Anything else is too far away and the team would lose more money on ticket sales drop then they would in paying what the U asked.

Even though Iowa has a large number of Vikings fans they have the same issue. The bulk of their STH base in in the metro. Why would they PO those fans by moving the team to a new state over money on the margins? And that doesn't even factor in the PR mess they'd be in for moving the team to play in Iowa after the people of Minnesota just bought them a new stadium.

RodentRampage said:
The Vikings could play anywhere in the country for a year. Maybe they could have played in LA for a season. They still would have had TV coverage, and while season ticket holders wouldn't be able to make it to Vikings games if the games were held elsewhere, presumably there would be people interested in attending an NFL game at whatever site the Vikings played that year.
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The U is getting shorted by at least a million dollars a year by this deal. If they wanted to push for a bump from the MSFC deal the Vikings had at the dome then you're talking maybe another million per season tops. So lets call the difference 2 million. At $70 a ticket, you're talking about 30,000 tickets sold to make up that cost (3,000 seats per game). If the Vikings move to LA (or elsewhere) they lose 53,000 STH in attendance per game. Perhaps the Vikings draw at least 50,000 per game in another market and make it a wash. But the PR hit they'd take in MN would be UNBELIEVABLE. The state and city just ponied up over 50% of the cost and the Vikings move to a new city over and additional million or two per year that would go to the state university? Get real.

Like I said, you're just arguing that it's possible. I'm talking about what's likely given the real numbers on the table (not some hypothetical "stick it to the Vikings" nonsense.
 

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