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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    Thanks S2! You want to expand on that? Which part really gets to you?
    Nope, today I'm going to be Jake Jr, and just take non substantive shots. I want to see how the other half lives for a change.


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    I understand your point, however.......I think you very well know why they won't drop it. I am no PP expert, but this is how I see it:

    Abortion is legal. That is a fact. As long as that is a fact, some organization will (and should) exist to protect that legal option and make sure it is available. That organization today is PP. It is not PP's only mission, but it is most certainly contained within the word "comprehensive." I don't believe that they provide the other services to divert attention from this - indeed, these other services fit their mission - but they will never drop abortions, as long as they are legal. Protecting women's rights and providing access to all legal birth control is what they are about.

    Do you disagree with this view? (I'm not asking if you are pro-choice/pro-life or if you want to label women who have abortions "murderers.")
    I agree with most of what you wrote except your definition of women's rights. That can be a different thread. What we agree on is that abortion is a core service of what Planned Parenthood provides, and by offering this service, it provides a significant amount of money to the organization through both fundraising and grants. Many on the pro-choice side are ardent supporters of PP because they provide this service, and without it, much of their funding would go away, possibly to the point where they would no longer exist. It brings in big $$$ to the organization, which I stated back at the beginning of this thread. Jamiche incorrectly tried to play it off as a small portion of their overall mission and budget by stating it was only 3% of services, which obviously doesn't adequately reflect its importance on their financial and social goals.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I agree with most of what you wrote except your definition of women's rights. That can be a different thread.
    To clarify, I wasn't stating my position or providing my definition; I was stating what the law says. The law says that women have a right to legal abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    What we agree on is that abortion is a core service of what Planned Parenthood provides, and by offering this service, it provides a significant amount of money to the organization through both fundraising and grants. Many on the pro-choice side are ardent supporters of PP because they provide this service, and without it, much of their funding would go away, possibly to the point where they would no longer exist. It brings in big $$$ to the organization, which I stated back at the beginning of this thread. Jamiche incorrectly tried to play it off as a small portion of their overall mission and budget by stating it was only 3% of services, which obviously doesn't adequately reflect its importance on their financial and social goals.
    Agree. If PP were to cut abortion services, some other organization would fill the void (presumably) and receive many of the (read: significant) $$ previously directed to PP.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    Agree. If PP were to cut abortion services, some other organization would fill the void (presumably) and receive many of the (read: significant) $$ previously directed to PP.
    Keep going Jake, finish that thought. The debate ITT is on whether abortion services are central to PP.... so take your above post and follow it to its logical conclusion.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    Keep going Jake, finish that thought. The debate ITT is on whether abortion services are central to PP.... so take your above post and follow it to its logical conclusion.
    They are. I already said that.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    I understand your point, however.......I think you very well know why they won't drop it. I am no PP expert, but this is how I see it:

    Abortion is legal. That is a fact. As long as that is a fact, some organization will (and should) exist to protect that legal option and make sure it is available. That organization today is PP. It is not PP's only mission, but it is most certainly contained within the word "comprehensive." I don't believe that they provide the other services to divert attention from this - indeed, these other services fit their mission - but they will never drop abortions, as long as they are legal. Protecting women's rights and providing access to all legal birth control is what they are about.

    Do you disagree with this view? (I'm not asking if you are pro-choice/pro-life or if you want to label women who have abortions "murderers.")
    Are you saying what it looks like you are saying?
    Kingdom Warriors

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    Keep going Jake, finish that thought. The debate ITT is on whether abortion services are central to PP.... so take your above post and follow it to its logical conclusion.
    Unless I've missed something in the news lately or gotten the story wrong- won't Planned Parenthood be pretty needless soon? Obama is requiring insurance cover contraception for everybody- right? Wouldn't that leave PP just in the business of abortions and wouldn't that eliminate completely any federal funding?

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by diehard View Post
    Are you saying what it looks like you are saying?
    Not sure. What does it look like I'm saying to you? I found it pretty clear. But, of course, I wrote it. Do you disagree with what I have said?

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by bga1 View Post
    Unless I've missed something in the news lately or gotten the story wrong- won't Planned Parenthood be pretty needless soon? Obama is requiring insurance cover contraception for everybody- right? Wouldn't that leave PP just in the business of abortions and wouldn't that eliminate completely any federal funding?
    too scared to address the elephant in the room I see.

  10. #40

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    Lumping abortion in with condoms and birth control pills as a common (comprehensive) method of birth control? Abortion does happen about 1 million times a year in the US.
    Kingdom Warriors

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brew_recruit View Post
    too scared to address the elephant in the room I see.
    Speak it out clearly Brew. What would you like me to address? I'm certain I am willing to address the elephant you speak of.

  12. #42

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    If Abortion is baby murder in your eyes, how can you support Mitt Romney who when he ran for Senate, and won as Governor ran as a pro choice candidate. He supported baby murder. So you are saying that 6 years is all it takes to be absolved from baby murder. Would you vote for Joran vandeer slut in 2020 if he won the R nom, because now he is against murdering woman?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNDsyKnQIes

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brew_recruit View Post
    If Abortion is baby murder in your eyes, how can you support Mitt Romney who when he ran for Senate, and won as Governor ran as a pro choice candidate. He supported baby murder. So you are saying that 6 years is all it takes to be absolved from baby murder. Would you vote for Joran vandeer slut in 2020 if he won the R nom, because now he is against murdering woman?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNDsyKnQIes
    The switch on abortion certainly was part of my hesitation with Romney. I was an anybody but Romney guy in the primary season- if you will recall. Now I have a choice between Romney a guy who says he's changed his mind on that issue and who is at least talking conservatively and Obama a guy who supported late term abortion and who is an all in pro-abortion socialist. That's pretty easy- I'll vote Romney as a huge upgrade.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I agree with most of what you wrote except your definition of women's rights. That can be a different thread. What we agree on is that abortion is a core service of what Planned Parenthood provides, and by offering this service, it provides a significant amount of money to the organization through both fundraising and grants. Many on the pro-choice side are ardent supporters of PP because they provide this service, and without it, much of their funding would go away, possibly to the point where they would no longer exist. It brings in big $$$ to the organization, which I stated back at the beginning of this thread. Jamiche incorrectly tried to play it off as a small portion of their overall mission and budget by stating it was only 3% of services, which obviously doesn't adequately reflect its importance on their financial and social goals.
    Other than your own biases, what is that assumption based on? I can't remember the last thing that I read from PP that promoted their abortion procedures.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by bga1 View Post
    The switch on abortion certainly was part of my hesitation with Romney. I was an anybody but Romney guy in the primary season- if you will recall. Now I have a choice between Romney a guy who says he's changed his mind on that issue and who is at least talking conservatively and Obama a guy who supported late term abortion and who is an all in pro-abortion socialist. That's pretty easy- I'll vote Romney as a huge upgrade.
    See you are not answering the question. You have said a million times over you would vote for anyone in the world over Obama. What I'm saying is you call abortion baby murder. If Abortion is baby murder, does it only take 6 years to be free from murdering babies? If Joran Vandeer sloot ran in 2020 against Alan Grayson, but now he ran on a don't kill woman platform, would you vote for him because Grayson makes Obama look like Dick Cheney?

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