If the Vikes stay it looks like they'll need to play in TCF Bank Stadium

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Formo said:
What I meant by 'the uncontrolable legislature' was that their actions are completely independent from the Vikings brass. I'll reference the old saying, "Control the controllables, everything else just let be".

Your post is right about the regional political culture. Our upper Midwest culture is a unique one.
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Gotcha. Sorry I jumped on you a bit.

You are right on the mark. The Vikings have not had control of this since McCombs bought the team. Although the players "on the scene" have changed, there's still a bit of animus behind the scenes between the Vikings, the Twins and the Gophers because the Twins and Gophers feel that the Vikings railroaded them into the dome (which they did do).
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
You don't understand why people want what is far and away the most popular sport in America in their city/state/general area? The Gophers have never lost a game because the Vikings are here.
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Not to mention the jobs it will create temporarily and long term. They'll need the manpower to build it and the people to maintain it. If it's downtown it will create more business for the surrounding area. If it is a suburb they'll build shopping/restaurants around it thus creating more jobs and revenue. If anything the legislature should be fighting to keep the Vikings here, not giving them ultimatums of stay or go.
 

Arbogast said:
If anything the legislature should be fighting to keep the Vikings here, not giving them ultimatums of stay or go.
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They didn't give an ultimatum. And it wasn't the legislature who said anything. Dayton simply stated that in his opinion the only plan with a shot of passing this session was the Dome site.
 

GoAUpher said:
They didn't give an ultimatum. And it wasn't the legislature who said anything. Dayton simply stated that in his opinion the only plan with a shot of passing this session was the Dome site.
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If I heard someone say to me, " You will only get a stadium if it is on the site you don't want." that would be an ultimatum.
Definition of ultimatum: A final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.
From my understanding Dayton should have his finger on the pulse of how the legislature feels about the issue. The Viking have made it pretty clear that if the deal doesn't get done this session they are gone. Whether that's blowing smoke or not I don't know but with Dayton making that statement, he's making it clear that the legislature is thinking of telling the Vikings to kick rocks. Otherwise he shouldn't have made that statement.
 

There's way too many posts on this thread of people making outrageous arguments trying to support their own personal interests and agenda.
 


howeda7 said:
If true, this makes no sense. Virtually every Hennipen legislator voted against the Twins stadium, some while kicking and screaming about how the rest of the state was screwing them. They didn't want the Twins stadium, but they do want the Vikings? You'd think they'd relish the chance to let Ramsey have it and pay for it.
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just politics. enough votes were had to get it passed which allowed the Hennepin crowd to vote against and save face in front of their constituents. they wanted the Twins and really don't want the Vikings anywhere else but Minneapolis.
 

station19 said:
There's way too many posts on this thread of people making outrageous arguments trying to support their own personal interests and agenda.
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Funny guy - like you NEVER do that in your posts!
 

Arbogast said:
If I heard someone say to me, " You will only get a stadium if it is on the site you don't want." that would be an ultimatum.
Definition of ultimatum: A final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.
From my understanding Dayton should have his finger on the pulse of how the legislature feels about the issue. The Viking have made it pretty clear that if the deal doesn't get done this session they are gone. Whether that's blowing smoke or not I don't know but with Dayton making that statement, he's making it clear that the legislature is thinking of telling the Vikings to kick rocks. Otherwise he shouldn't have made that statement.
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It wasn't final. He wouldn't use "in this session" if it were final. And his having a pulse for the legislature certainly doesn't mean he speaks for it, especially not when it is controlled by the other party. He may be right (time will tell) but that doesn't mean he speaks for them. BTW, they prob can't be gone. By the NFL's bylaws they'd have to declare the move by 2/15 and it appears as though they haven't been negotiating with LA enough to make that happen.
 

GoAUpher said:
FWIW, those "greedy Indians" also gave a huge donation to the U that helped make TCF possible.
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not necessarily. they put up some money to put up some tall indian plaques on the plaza and a water feature. big deal. a plaza would have been built in some form or fashion with or without their strategically made, public-relations ploy, last minute donation to the U of M.
 



50PoundHead said:
I've worked around the Legislature for over 35 years and I wouldn't exactly call them uncontrollable. I think the issue in Minnesota compared to other states/municipalities is that we, as a state, exert much more control over local issues than in other states. I know that was a problem for McCombs who simply couldn't figure out that there was a difference between the San Antonio City Council and the Minnesota Legislature. In the case of the Wilfs, I think their New York/New Jersey roots, in which unions have a lot more power than they do here in Minnesota have made it difficult for them to figure things out. In a lot of other markets, teams snap their fingers and things get done. That's never really been the case in Minnesota.

The other thing people have to remember is that Miller Park in Milwaukee was one vote away from never being built and there was a referendum in Brown County, Wisconsin, to raise the sales tax in order to re-furbish Lambeau. The political culture of the Upper Midwest has always been a bit different and it's showing again here.
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yeah, well the nanny-state, socialistic, scandanavian/germanic political "culture" of the upper-midwest is about as lame and stupid as it gets.

just a few examples: no off-sale liquor purchases on sundays even though 80% of minnesotans want it, no full-strength beer or liquor sales in grocery stores or convenience stores even though most other states have it and 80% of minnesotans want it, no off-indian reservation gambling even though 80% of minnesotans want it, every stadium debate has to go on for 15 years even though a majority of minnesotans just want it to happen and be done with, etc, etc, etc.
 


supadupafly said:
yeah, well the nanny-state, socialistic, scandanavian/germanic political "culture" of the upper-midwest is about as lame and stupid as it gets.

just a few examples: no off-sale liquor purchases on sundays even though 80% of minnesotans want it, no full-strength beer or liquor sales in grocery stores or convenience stores even though most other states have it and 80% of minnesotans want it, no off-indian reservation gambling even though 80% of minnesotans want it, every stadium debate has to go on for 15 years even though a majority of minnesotans just want it to happen and be done with, etc, etc, etc.
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Also, 93.12% of stats are made up on the spot.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
You don't understand why people want what is far and away the most popular sport in America in their city/state/general area?
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I get that part.

What I don't get is why Gopher fans want them to stay. Imagine if the owner of a Burger King went on to a McDonalds message board with outspoken hope that a new Micky D's would be built right smack dab in the middle of his prime territory. Or, even worse, deny that the presence of that McDonalds would negatively impact his Burger King.
 



josh087 said:
I get that part.

What I don't get is why Gopher fans want them to stay. Imagine if the owner of a Burger King went on to a McDonalds message board with outspoken hope that a new Micky D's would be built right smack dab in the middle of his prime territory. Or, even worse, deny that the presence of that McDonalds would negatively impact his Burger King.
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Is it really hard to understand that many people can be fans of both.
 

the wilfs just seem like greasy people to me. I wish glen taylor or the pohlads would just buy the vikings too; that'll make sure they stay.
 



t-docious said:
the wilfs just seem like greasy people to me. I wish glen taylor or the pohlads would just buy the vikings too; that'll make sure they stay.
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God, please don't let Glen Taylor own another major league sports franchise in the Twin Cities, especially the Vikings.
 

josh087 said:
I get that part.

What I don't get is why Gopher fans want them to stay. Imagine if the owner of a Burger King went on to a McDonalds message board with outspoken hope that a new Micky D's would be built right smack dab in the middle of his prime territory. Or, even worse, deny that the presence of that McDonalds would negatively impact his Burger King.
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I would guess that there are few people on this board who are bigger Viking fans than they are Gopher fans. I don't care for the Vikings. I stopped cheering for them when they didn't get rid of that arrogant pig Dennis Green after losing in the wild card round three years in a row, but I still realize that they are very important to thousands of people around the state.
As far as your analogy is concerned, McDonalds might come in and take away some of Burger King's business, but if the food/service/atmosphere is lousy, Burger King will fail if McDonald's is right next door or not.
 

I read recently that the gaming casinos are not prospering like they once did. Downturn in the economy still effecting gaming. So, under the current climate, additional gaming will not bring in more money but water it down for everybody. Not really an option.
 

supadupafly said:
not necessarily. they put up some money to put up some tall indian plaques on the plaza and a water feature. big deal. a plaza would have been built in some form or fashion with or without their strategically made, public-relations ploy, last minute donation to the U of M.
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So you're saying the Shakopee Sioux Community donation was to pay for the plaza only??


From Wiki:

Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux donations
The Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community (SMSC) agreed to donate $10 million for stadium construction, the largest gift Gopher athletics has ever received. The university matched an additional $2.5 million to create a $5 million endowment for scholarships for Native American and low-income students. The hospitality plaza on the stadium's west side and the scholarship were named to honor the community, and the plaza designed to "... celebrate the history, presence, and cultural contributions of all eleven Native American tribes in Minnesota".[49][50][51] The University received an additional $2 million from the SMSC for construction of the plaza in 2009.[52]
 

Dean S said:
I read recently that the gaming casinos are not prospering like they once did. Downturn in the economy still effecting gaming. So, under the current climate, additional gaming will not bring in more money but water it down for everybody. Not really an option.
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Why?
 

station19 said:
Why?
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Because the the powerful gaming lobby (who diversified their money and efforts to Republicans now too) won't stand for it. That and possible federal lawsuits (alluded to by Dayton, no idea if realistic or on what grounds).
 


GoAUpher said:
Because the the powerful gaming lobby (who diversified their money and efforts to Republicans now too) won't stand for it. That and possible federal lawsuits (alluded to by Dayton, no idea if realistic or on what grounds).
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I can handle that argument, however Dean S makes it sound like it would not be an option because of the downturn in the economy and will not bring in 'more' money.
 

supadupafly said:
what something was and what it currently is are two completely different things.......bub
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Exactly. station19 was referring to the Vikings original 0.5% tax, which was on all sales, making it comparable to the Twins 0.15% tax. You came back and and said it was a targeted tax, which was not the case (the newly proposed tax is, but that wasn't the tax that he was discussing)

The Vikings say they want a level playing field. That original proposal certainly wasn't level.
 

josh087 said:
I get that part.

What I don't get is why Gopher fans want them to stay. Imagine if the owner of a Burger King went on to a McDonalds message board with outspoken hope that a new Micky D's would be built right smack dab in the middle of his prime territory. Or, even worse, deny that the presence of that McDonalds would negatively impact his Burger King.
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This is a poor analogy. McDonald's and Burger King are head-to-head competitors for the exact same market, make the exact same products, and their bottom lines are directly affected by the other's fortune or lack thereof. The Vikings and Gophers play the same game with (mostly) the same rules, but outside of that, it would be difficult for them to be more dissimilar in virtually every respect. The Gophers don't have as big of a fanbase as they could/should because they've been mediocre-to-poor for nearly 5 decades. There is a latent fanbase waiting for the Gophers to have some success before they invest their time and money. You and I both know tons of the same people who are U of M alums and whose attitudes toward the Gophers are slightly above hatred. You and I will both live and die with the Gophers regardless of their current state, but very few people are wired that way. None of that has anything to do with the Vikings.
 

station19 said:
I can handle that argument, however Dean S makes it sound like it would not be an option because of the downturn in the economy and will not bring in 'more' money.
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I took it to be "the downtownturn in the economy results in less money made which means they'll fight harder to keep the places to gamble limited".
 

50PoundHead said:
Gotcha. Sorry I jumped on you a bit.

You are right on the mark. The Vikings have not had control of this since McCombs bought the team. Although the players "on the scene" have changed, there's still a bit of animus behind the scenes between the Vikings, the Twins and the Gophers because the Twins and Gophers feel that the Vikings railroaded them into the dome (which they did do).
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The Gophers were never railroaded into the dome, there was no one at the U including administration, football coaches, and big contributors that didn't want to move into the dome, even though there was a fairly large contingent of fans that wanted Memorial to be saved and rehabbed in the interim.
 


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