If the Vikes stay it looks like they'll need to play in TCF Bank Stadium

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norman dale

norman dale

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http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/137931433.html

"The governor spoke to Mr. Zygi Wilf this afternoon and told him that if we are going to get a stadium bill passed his year, it will have to be at the Metrodome site,” the governor’s spokeswoman Katharine Tinucci said. She said the Wilfs will come to Minnesota on Wednesday to meet with Dayton.

I'm surprised this hasn't received more attention on the GopherHole other than this thread http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?35422-What-improvements-are-needed-for-the-Vikings-to-use-TCF-Bank-Stadium.

Though between recruiting and the uniform thread(s) I can understand why. Plus it truly is a Vikings / political topic. I guess it now becomes more of a reality that the Vikings will need TCF Bank Stadium for a couple of years before Metrodome v2.0 is finished. I'm not 100% confident that this project gets green-lighted with this upcoming legislative session anyways.

Although it will be a PITA for the U and its neighboring residents I hope the NFL/Vikings make a large financial investment in some permanent upgrades to TCF Bank Stadium.
 

Zig is getting frustrated. LA is looking better and better!
 

I love the Vikes but stay away from The Bank.
 

I'm not a Vikes fan, but they need to stay here. It will be a giant, giant mistake if they try and cram a stadium downtown. I've got a perfect site in mind, close to hotels, mass transit and plenty of room for tailgating. Just blow up that stupid Megamall.
 



As an obvious Viking fan, I want a stadium deal done, and really I don't care where...

Except our state's legislators are worthless and because of such, there is no deal that I'll be happy with outside of the Vikings building a stadium in North/South Dakota.

Here's a quick rundown of how this garbage came to be:
Vikings: What do we need to do to get a stadium deal in place?
Minnesota: We aren't going to even talk about this until you have a local partner.
Vikings: OK, we have a partner! Minnesota, meet Anoka County!
Anoka County: We are excited to partner with the Vikings. We will pay for our third with a county wide sales tax.
Minnesota: We don't like that option. Find another one that doesn't involve raising taxes. BTW, check out this beautiful new stadium for the Twins that was paid for with a county wide sales tax...
Vikings: It's very nice. So what do we need to do to get a stadium deal in place?
Minnesota: We aren't going to even talk about this until you have a local partner.
Vikings: OK, we have a partner! Minnesota, meet Ramsey County!
Ramsey County: We are excited to partner with the Vikings. We will pay for our quarter with a county wide tax on food and entertainment.
Minnesota: We don't like that option. Find another one that doesn't involve raising taxes. Have you looked into Minneapolis? They have an idea to fund the stadium by raising taxes...

Now, Zigy could have avoided this type of dinkin' around if he would just pony up the $billion to build in Arden Hills. This way the state could have almost zero say in how they (the Vikings) run/build the facility. Instead, the state is going to push and push and push to get Rybak's way and build on the Dome. Great.. The Dome was built originally on the cheap and look what that got MN sports.. Money losses. And now the state wants to do the same damn thing.

I take my first sentence back.. If they want to build on the cheap and re-do the Dump.. then I hope the Vikings sail for better seas.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Wilfs either sold the Vikes to LA or just straight up move them there.
 

If the Vikings want to use TCf for two years while the Dump is gutted out, the University better not just roll over, play "good neighbor", and let them use the Brickhouse for free.
 

Why is it assumed TCF is the only answer? Certainly they could play at Target field. Or simply move to LA.
 

I predict, that if the only option is the Mtrodome site, the Vikings end up in LA.
 



It's a joke that something was not figured out for the Vikings years ago. With the notable exception of Los Angeles, major cities have NFL football. Why anyone thinks it is a good idea to jerk around with something so important is beyond me.
 

EG#9 said:
It's a joke that something was not figured out for the Vikings years ago. With the notable exception of Los Angeles, major cities have NFL football. Why anyone thinks it is a good idea to jerk around with something so important is beyond me.
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Most people on here will never agree with this. Vikings = bad to most of the posters here.
 

I think Formo makes some very good points. The one central theme that shouldn't be missed however is for the first time in all these stadium debates, the question isn't "Will a stadium be built?" The questions are "Where will the stadium be built." I think the chances of the Vikings moving would be much higher if the question was "if" and not "where". It is going to happen. That being said, I agree completely that the Metrodome was built on the cheap and its shorter-than-expected viable lifespan is a direct result of that. It was basically outdated the day it opened. I get particularly frustated (especially as a "history guy") to see bad historical mistakes repeat themselves.

If it ends up being at the metrodome site, I sure hope it isn't another cheap "good enough" stadium. I also have no problem with having the Vikings in TCF for three seasons. I don't mind getting potential new fans used to finding their way to my favorite stadium. I also don't mind the idea of potential upgrades for free.
 

Personally, I think this just makes it more likely that nothing happens this session (which I was betting on anyhow).
 



Formo said:
Instead, the state is going to push and push and push to get Rybak's way and build on the Dome.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is the state pushing to get Rybak his way. I think this is the acknowledgement of a political reality. AH is dead in the water because of the taxes issue. Linden (Basilica) is getting big opposition from the Church and has land issues to overcome that might be too much to deal with short term. Farmer's Market is out of the conversation right now (probably b/c of the like 18 or so landowners that have to be dealt with). Perhaps the issues for Linden and FM are fatal, or perhaps it's just the element of "more time needed" that keeps them from happening in this session. Time will tell.

But I think almost everyone recognizes that the Dome site is the least ideal of the downtown locations. Dayton said as much last week. The 2025 plan puts a stadium on the west side of DT with the Dome site redeveloped as housing/mixed use. That's done in conjunction with the business leaders so they don't want it there. The city council doesn't want the new stadium on the Dome site. The Vikings don't want it there. Only Rybak and the city council president have come out in favor of it.

That's why I think this is Dayton stating a political reality versus pushing for the Dome site. If the Vikes want it done this session, it'll have to be the Dome. If they are willing to wait, then something else might become possible.
 

Parski1 said:
I love the Vikes but stay away from The Bank.
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If they help out the University by paying for upgrades, use of the facilities, etc., why? Especially if it keeps the team you love in Minnesota.

As a Packer fan, I hope (and have confidence) that something will get worked out. Losing that rivalry would be a massive bummer.
 

I just hope the u of m doesn't do anything stupid like adding 2k extra ugly seats in the open end.
 

EG#9 said:
It's a joke that something was not figured out for the Vikings years ago. With the notable exception of Los Angeles, major cities have NFL football. Why anyone thinks it is a good idea to jerk around with something so important is beyond me.
Click to expand...

+1. I don't know why they can't let Ramsey County solve this for itself the same way Hennipen did for the Twins. And in 2018 we'll pay $1.5 billion to build a new stadium for the Jaguars.
 

Rosemountian said:
I just hope the u of m doesn't do anything stupid like adding 2k extra ugly seats in the open end.
Click to expand...

I would agree. I am fine with the Vikings playing at the U as long as the improvements to the stadium are not too overwhelming. Meaning, things that we obviously will not need after the vikings no longer play there (too many added seats, etc.). BTW, anyone know of what improvements they did in Champaign so that the Bears could play there when they were revamping soldier field?
 

howeda7 said:
+1. I don't know why they can't let Ramsey County solve this for itself the same way Hennipen did for the Twins. And in 2018 we'll pay $1.5 billion to build a new stadium for the Jaguars.
Click to expand...

it is politics my friend. nothing more than turf politics. they are making the vikings play by a different set of rules than the twins were told to play by. think of it this way since the twins were never looking to move out of minneapolis. dayton is from minneapolis, most of dayton's administration is from minneapolis. and most of the dfl votes you would need to wrangle up in order to pass it through the house or senate would be from pro-urban dfl legislators from minneapolis or st. paul (who don't want to see a stadium in suburban ramsey county if it won't be in downtown st. paul). in their minds they just can't imagine a stadium in the suburbs with ample tailgating space. the people must be forced to ride to all games on light rail or ride the silly green ride-share bikes to them. ;-)

not saying i agree with putting a football stadium in a downtown area, but unfortunately it is just the reality of the politics these slime ball legislators are making everyone play.

and the red-herrings the basillica of st. mary is throwing out there about the linden avenue site are just that.......red herrings.
 

The Zigster got greedy and chumped the Anoka/Blaine site. Lester B. is now running around like a chicken with his head cut off. They wasted time in thinking they were going to get the Linden Ave site. ( You don't mess with God Lester) You do wonder now if the Zigster is thinking California Dreaming? Sid didn't need a blast to the ticker in regards to Dayton's comments. Get ready for a Thursday Sid piece blasting everybody from the the rev. John Bauer (basilica) to the State Legislature, MPLS City Council,, Mayor Rybak, and I'm sure he'll fire shots at Council member Meg Tuthill who called the Linden site totally unacceptable because of the harm to the basilica. I'm laughing my butt off because you know this is going to turn into a total goat f... Here's a thought Ziggy, go to the IRRR in St. Louis County and build it up in Duluth.
 

e.bigelow said:
I would agree. I am fine with the Vikings playing at the U as long as the improvements to the stadium are not too overwhelming. Meaning, things that we obviously will not need after the vikings no longer play there (too many added seats, etc.). BTW, anyone know of what improvements they did in Champaign so that the Bears could play there when they were revamping soldier field?
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WCCO ch 4 will have a segment at 5:00 today about what improvements are needed at TCF for the Vikings to play there.
 

Formo said:
Here's a quick rundown of how this garbage came to be:
Vikings: What do we need to do to get a stadium deal in place?
Minnesota: We aren't going to even talk about this until you have a local partner.
Vikings: OK, we have a partner! Minnesota, meet Anoka County!
Anoka County: We are excited to partner with the Vikings. We will pay for our third with a county wide sales tax.
Click to expand...

There are some folks in Anoka County who don't quite share your version.


"But Rep. Jim Abeler, R-Anoka, views the Anoka County/Vikings’ stadium proposal as troubled from the start. Abeler, too, believes Pawlenty wasn’t interested.
Beyond this, Abeler — who still has Zygi Wilf’s phone number on his cell phone — sensed that Wilf himself was not fully committed.
“I really felt he never bought it,” said Abeler.
Just when and why did the Vikings give up on Anoka County?
Betzold doesn’t know the exact reason, but recalls Vikings’ stadium point man Lester Bagley telling him late in the fall of 2006 the team had shifted its focus to downtown Minneapolis."

Don't want them to leave, but I have zero sympathy for Zygi's and Lester's frustrations now. Don't know if it was the same session, but at a time when it was apparent a stadium or two was going to be built, Zygi decided to back out. Maybe there were too many problems, but a lot of people thought he was looking for an even better deal. His greediness at that time sort of mirrors some of his other decisions: choice of coaches, Triangle of Authority, agreeing to bank a season on washed up quarterbacks, etc. The man has a reputation of knowing real estate development. His ability to run a franchise and his ability to read the political landscape seems to be lacking though.
 

"@Charley_Walters: U of M talking to U of Illinois about how Illini hosted Bears while Soldier Field under renovation."

Go Gophers!!
 

howeda7 said:
+1. I don't know why they can't let Ramsey County solve this for itself the same way Hennipen did for the Twins. And in 2018 we'll pay $1.5 billion to build a new stadium for the Jaguars.
Click to expand...

Talk to the "no new taxes" legislators who won't let that idea fly.

supadupafly said:
it is politics my friend. nothing more than turf politics. they are making the vikings play by a different set of rules than the twins were told to play by. think of it this way since the twins were never looking to move out of minneapolis. dayton is from minneapolis, most of dayton's administration is from minneapolis. and most of the dfl votes you would need to wrangle up in order to pass it through the house or senate would be from pro-urban dfl legislators from minneapolis or st. paul (who don't want to see a stadium in suburban ramsey county if it won't be in downtown st. paul). in their minds they just can't imagine a stadium in the suburbs with ample tailgating space. the people must be forced to ride to all games on light rail or ride the silly green ride-share bikes to them. ;-)

not saying i agree with putting a football stadium in a downtown area, but unfortunately it is just the reality of the politics these slime ball legislators are making everyone play.

and the red-herrings the basillica of st. mary is throwing out there about the linden avenue site are just that.......red herrings.
Click to expand...

No, the issue is that this isn't the same legislature that existed in 2006. This legislature is full of new blood, and much of that blood is of the "no new taxes" variety. Dayton is a governor, not a king. He can't tell the legislature what to do. There are definitely legislators who want Minneapolis for their own reasons (including: don't want public money to overwhelmingly benefit one private entity versus the wider business community and those who already represent Minneapolis). But this later group would have existed regardless. The biggest change is the influx of the no new taxes crowd.
 

How about the Vikings fund at least half of the new basketball practice facility as part of a deal to play at TCF?
 

Obviously the heating coils are needed. That's all the Vikes players b@tched about last year. Temporary stands to fill in the open end?
 

Whatever they do, they need to make sure that the turf is nice and soft for non-football player Chris Kluwe.
 

howeda7 said:
+1. I don't know why they can't let Ramsey County solve this for itself the same way Hennipen did for the Twins. And in 2018 we'll pay $1.5 billion to build a new stadium for the Jaguars.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind the Hennipen County(Target Field) sales tax was .15%. The proposed Ramsey County(Viking) sales tax was .5%. Big difference.
 

Typical Minnesota politics, no forward thinking allowed. We are going to let the Vikings leave and then 5 years from now we are going to pay double what it would cost to keep them for a new franchise. Just Typical
 

station19 said:
Keep in mind the Hennipen County(Target Field) sales tax was .15%. The proposed Ramsey County(Viking) sales tax was .5%. Big difference.
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The other issue is that the tax base is way different too. Hennipen Country has more people and those people are wealthier on average. In any case, that sales tax isn't the current funding source anymore. The new source is a county-wide 3% tax on food/beverages (there are details in how that applies that I'm too lazy to hunt down).
 

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