??s for Recruiting Aficionados

Enough is enough!

I'm so glad to hear that sumtimegoph! You know, everytime I see your moniker it reminds me of that old Don Henley classic: "Boys of sum(time)mer..." You do have your "...hair slicked back and those wayferers on..."

You sound like you are just too much sumtimes...

Fortunately, your post was very short. It kind of fits what you have to say!

; 0 )

Monitors it is time to ban Wren. He has proven time after time he is only interested in disrupting this blog with his personal agenda. He seems to get a great of joy in turning the conversation away from what is being discussed to his personal agenda. This site deserves better than his incessant babbling and high jacking.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Here's a thought to ponder:

Does winning bring better recruits? OR

Do better recruits bring winning?

If you have to win games before you can attract a better class of recruits, then how do you win games without upgrading your talent base?

If you have to upgrade your talent base before you can win games, then how do you convince quality kids to play for a 'losing' team?

I don't have any answers. Just mulling over those questions - and wanted to throw it out to add to the discussion.

I tend to believe that winning needs to lead. Brew and Zook are examples where recruiting led. Find a case where recruiting leads wins (like I expect for Meyer @ Ohio State) and usually it's a guy who would have won anyway.

I think Tiller/Purdue might be a better reference for us than Alvarez/UW. I think Kill and his guys want "chess pieces". When they ask a guy to do something he does it. They don't expect to win the war by winning all the individual battles, they expect to win it with preparation & schematic advantages. Don't get me wrong, they'd take better players if they can get them, but they will prize consistency, toughness, and experience perhaps more than most.

This I'd kind of what Don Lucia has been taken to school on the last five years.

This is why I'm not worried - yet.
 

Monitors it is time to ban Wren. He has proven time after time he is only interested in disrupting this blog with his personal agenda. He seems to get a great of joy in turning the conversation away from what is being discussed to his personal agenda. This site deserves better than his incessant babbling and high jacking.

Hey Killer. Then we would see your future posts diminish about 75%. It seems as if you have a habit of making a post on the tails of just about every Wren post.

The ignore button is there for you to use. But I think you get a big rush by doing your post Wren thing.
 

imthewalrus, I was away from my computer all afternoon, but for once, you wrote something I agree with 100%. Coach Kill is a ball coach, that will get his wins, intially through superior coaching, The recruiting will follow. If the team goes through the NC schedule, playing like they did against Illinois, recruiting will not be a problem.
 

EG- I find this quote to be fascinating. I have heard the arguments that Kill can't recruit, but I have gone to practices and watched the freshmen he brought in versus the guys Brewster had recruited the last two years, and Kill's are better. From Brew's recruiting, we have one or two potential starters at dback, a bunch of wasted scholarships at WR. (On a team with good depth, Jones and DCT redshirt last season). Two freshmen starting over supposed three star recruits at DE, and the topper, no backup to a junior QB who has not played the position. (The issue with Brew's backup QBs is not fit in the system, they just are not B1G QBs.) No backup MLB, and apparently two kids at most ready to play DT next year. The only place Brewster became competent was o-line recruiting, and that was after he forgot to do that for two years. Our recruiting has been much worse than under Mason, because the three star kids we got at skill and DL positions were apparently three star kids other schools were too smart to take. (In Jacques case they may have been wrong).
If your fear is that we would not be competitive versus other teams in the B1G, I don't think so, but you could be right, but if your fear was our recruiting would go backwards, there is just about zero chance of that happening.

I strongly disagree with a lot of this. The last 4 (FOUR!) Glen Mason classes produced a total of 3 NFL draft picks and only 2 guys who stuck in the NFL in Dom Barber and Eric Decker. I do agree that Brewster wasted a lot of scholarships at WR in his last 2 classes or so (trying to make up for guys like Hill who didn't qualify and Hawkins who bolted for TCU (and then didn't qualify). I think Brewster clearly did a much better job instate in keeping the top guys home. I think Shortell is more qualified to be a Big 10 QB than any backup we've had at the U that I can remember. Guys like Gray, Hageman, Stoudermire, and Tinsley are guys who simply are a different breed of athlete than we have been used to at Minnesota. Because we are not used to getting recruits that other schools actually want, we (as a fanbase) seem to want guys to be superstars as freshman or sophomores when very few guys fit that bill. If we recruited like Brewster did in his first and second classes over the long haul, I think we'd have a very nice program. We've seen what recruiting at/near the bottom of the Big Ten gets you over the long haul which has been a lot of losses to Iowa/Wisconsin and being one of only 2 schools to not finish in the top 3 of the Big Ten.
 



Bayfield

Hey Killer. Then we would see your future posts diminish about 75%. It seems as if you have a habit of making a post on the tails of just about every Wren post.

The ignore button is there for you to use. But I think you get a big rush by doing your post Wren thing.

Bayfield – You are clearly a very nice person and mean well when it comes to wren. From my perspective you seem to be very naive about his behavior and what he has done. This is the guy who teamed up with Pantherhawk to make it impossible to have a conversation at the Strib blog site. The two of them supported each other in their agenda to cause chaos there. As a result both of them were eventually banned from the site but then kept on returning again to do “their thing”. This cycle happened several times. All during this time wren could have cared less what he was doing to the rest of us.

Obviously you see wren’s behavior quite differently than I do. It doesn’t seem to bother you that he is rude, demanding, and always changing the discussion to his agenda. He clearly doesn't have any respect for the rest of us by posting long, but often the same, babbling diatribes. His inconsistencies are well documented but the one that I find most ironic is that when he gets on his moral soapbox with his demands. Then he goes ballistic if you don’t agree with him. He loves to dish it out but he can’t take it. You may find this charming or cute but I don’t.

Lastly, I don’t get a rush in posting about him. I do though find his behavior outlandish and would very much like to see him banned. I hope you do realize though that he has been banned at several sites including this one. You might think about why this has been the case. I could call you a “wren apologist” but I don’t feel that way and I know you mean well. The problem is that we seem to know two different wrens.
 

What outlandish lies you tell dopo....errrrr killjoy...

I say what I think and that is that.

You dopo...unregistered...killer-types can do your thing. It's fine with me. However, you do clog up the board with your outlandish campaigns that you attempt to wage. You will not succeed. You will never succeed.

So, here's "mud in your eyes..." and "happy new year..." Now...let's shake hands...go to your corner and NEVER resort to the things you and dopo, et al resorted to back on that old strib site where you would type your trash and attribute it to other posters in your attempts to make fools of the strib moderators. Eventually, they developed a bit more security. You and your type have never found a low that you would not stoop to.

But, enough of that.

I say what I think. Many people may not agree with me...but...I stand by my posts. You do NOT get to "tell your version of what I post..." Only MY posts can state what I say.

Now, dopo...unregistered...killer: be nice little children and remember to not say anything if you can NOT tell the truth.

You will not...and can NEVER intimidate me or my ability to help provide contrast, opinion and lively debate...

; 0 )
 

For the record, I have never posted on startribune.com. I barely even read any articles there, let alone take the time to post.
 



Getting back to the original intent of this thread, I failed to list one other item to opine, if so inclined: Every coaching staff seems to have a go-to person that is instrumental in the team's success in recruiting. Glen Mason's top recruiter was Mitch Browning . . . for Brewster, I believe (dare I mention his name?) it was Thomas Hammock; however, one year it was a defensive line coach (I forget his name (how soon we forget.)) that got a lot of press for his recruiting haul . . . it appears as though Bill Miller is the recruiting leader/coach for this year's edition. Is there any other current coach that leaps out as a recruiter?

Go Gophers!!
 

dpodoll68

For the record, I have never posted on startribune.com. I barely even read any articles there, let alone take the time to post.

I am sure you are correct. wren used to accuse me of being some guy from the GopherHole when I had never posted there before. Truth and reality have never been wren's strong points.
 

Delusion at its finest

I say what I think and that is that.

You dopo...unregistered...killer-types can do your thing. It's fine with me. However, you do clog up the board with your outlandish campaigns that you attempt to wage. You will not succeed. You will never succeed.

So, here's "mud in your eyes..." and "happy new year..." Now...let's shake hands...go to your corner and NEVER resort to the things you and dopo, et al resorted to back on that old strib site where you would type your trash and attribute it to other posters in your attempts to make fools of the strib moderators. Eventually, they developed a bit more security. You and your type have never found a low that you would not stoop to.

But, enough of that.

I say what I think. Many people may not agree with me...but...I stand by my posts. You do NOT get to "tell your version of what I post..." Only MY posts can state what I say.

Now, dopo...unregistered...killer: be nice little children and remember to not say anything if you can NOT tell the truth.

You will not...and can NEVER intimidate me or my ability to help provide contrast, opinion and lively debate...

; 0 )

Just like Don Quixote you are truly are delusional. You said it all with your words above.
 

Here is the thing Killjoy.

Wren stated his opinion on the topic just as others did. Then two or three others ripped into him. Why? Now we have another pi$$ing contest which is way too common on GH. But it seems that whenever Wren posts some automatically see the need to rip and Wren rips back. IMO, this is the problem but its not totally on Wren.

Rarely have I defended Wren. He is very capable of doing that solo. Yes, we all know his style which can get old. Wren and I go back a long time on these message boards and we basically agree to disagree yet we respect each others opinions. I think that is how GH is meant to operate.

Banned? For what? For stating his opinion like others? How about those who ripped on Wren? IMO, they too are deliquent in not following the rules of the game on GH. Go ahead Killjoy and campaign for Wrens dismissal but all GH-ers, me too, need to look in the mirror once in awhile.

I wish the moderators would delete more posts that do nothing but rip on another. It seems that this would help sustain the purpose of the thread and create a better board for all.

I enjoy coming to GH Killjoy and reading your stuff. And yes, I do read Wren's posts. And I have learned over the years that Wren is very capable of discussing issues if he is given the chance.
 



I have learned over the years that Wren is very capable of discussing issues if he is given the chance.

He very rarely discusses the issue at hand, and goes off into whatever agenda he is pushing that day. And therein lies the problem. No one has ever questioned his intelligence or love for the Gophers. His sanity, sobriety, and ability to actually stick to what is being discussed are all very much in question.
 

If we recruited like Brewster did in his first and second classes over the long haul, I think we'd have a very nice program. QUOTE]

Come on, really? Zero offensive line recruits in 2008. Please let me know who these superstar recruits are from the 2009 class outside of Hageman and Carter. Thanks in advance...
 

Getting back to the original intent of this thread, I failed to list one other item to opine, if so inclined: Every coaching staff seems to have a go-to person that is instrumental in the team's success in recruiting. Glen Mason's top recruiter was Mitch Browning . . . for Brewster, I believe (dare I mention his name?) it was Thomas Hammock; however, one year it was a defensive line coach (I forget his name (how soon we forget.)) that got a lot of press for his recruiting haul . . . it appears as though Bill Miller is the recruiting leader/coach for this year's edition. Is there any other current coach that leaps out as a recruiter?

Go Gophers!!

In an effort to save this thread as well from all the name calling arguing between one or two people I will attempt to address your question.

From the interaction I had with the staff I think Miller and Sawvel are probably two of the top recruiters on the staff. I think the Brewster staffer you were trying to come up with was Tim Cross who was a key recruiter for them and you are correct that for whatever reason Hammock was a great recruiter.
 

Wren's the only regular poster I have on ignore, give it a try the whole place will be better for it.

BUT the original discussion topic is relevant and basically will be until results for good or bad are proven on the field, IMO:
I think Kill knows what he needs to right the ship, and it's not taking risks on kids who will be looking to transfer, may fail out, or have a one dimensional game.

I also do think several of our commits are legit under the radar types, the shot track record Kill has here already shows he can find some underrated kids and get impact from them. Jones, Amaefula, Wells, Thompson, Cobb, and Goodger all played as true freshmen, many of those were unknowns on the recruiting front. Bush and Cockran could be proven good finds next year too if they have similar impacts.

In this class I see similar potential in quite a few guys, with multiple position flexibility.
Davis, Plsek, Keith, Lynn, Murray, Williams, and the two most recent commits Travis and Johnson all have good athleticism and could be tried at multiple positions which to their value and can help fins mismatches in the schemes they will learn.

Kill also hasn't wasted a deep in state class and signed 7 in staters so far.

Add in the JUCOs who can and should be counted on for immediate help and it's a solid class.

IMO this class is a stabilizing one, in that it gives the program redshirted depth in some key positions that typically need redshirts(OL, DL, TE, QB) no more 220 lb DE's and 18 year old starters up front.

It also has plugged holes in the secondary which has been decimated by attrition/other issues. Might not be stellar, but we'll have bodies and some experience.

Finally it seems like most of these kids are ok/good students, ok/good citizens, and haven't been sold on snake oil or unrealistic recruiting pitches. All that adds up to a good shot at keeping the majority of these kids until their seniors years.

I think that besides the change in schemes and coaches, attrition and transfers is what truly did Brewster in. There are way too many names who signed letters of intent to the U and didn't impact the program at all or did for only a season or two.
Keep a kid like Plsek or Eric Murray around for 5 years and i'm betting you get an impact from that scholarship.
 

Need to stay on topic

In order to respect DL65's and others desire to stay on topic I will not be posting today any more comments about wren's behavior. Bayfield, I have always appreciated your desire and ability to have a lively and civil football discusions here. If others followed your lead this would be a much better place. Having said that, I believe dpodoll 9:07 am post said it best as to what I see is the problem. Sorry for having to have the last word but let's get back to football.
 

Well said Ole! This is the class that stabilizes and balances the team.
 

Well said Ole! This is the class that stabilizes and balances the team.

I have to second Ole's comment. What I really appreciated about Kill is how everything he does seems to be linked together and supports of his vision. Per Ole, the class of 2012 is "the class that stabilizes and balances the team." Now all we have to do is hope he is right. I think he just may be!
 

Wren's the only regular poster I have on ignore, give it a try the whole place will be better for it.

BUT the original discussion topic is relevant and basically will be until results for good or bad are proven on the field, IMO:
I think Kill knows what he needs to right the ship, and it's not taking risks on kids who will be looking to transfer, may fail out, or have a one dimensional game.

I also do think several of our commits are legit under the radar types, the shot track record Kill has here already shows he can find some underrated kids and get impact from them. Jones, Amaefula, Wells, Thompson, Cobb, and Goodger all played as true freshmen, many of those were unknowns on the recruiting front. Bush and Cockran could be proven good finds next year too if they have similar impacts.

In this class I see similar potential in quite a few guys, with multiple position flexibility.
Davis, Plsek, Keith, Lynn, Murray, Williams, and the two most recent commits Travis and Johnson all have good athleticism and could be tried at multiple positions which to their value and can help fins mismatches in the schemes they will learn.

Kill also hasn't wasted a deep in state class and signed 7 in staters so far.

Add in the JUCOs who can and should be counted on for immediate help and it's a solid class.

IMO this class is a stabilizing one, in that it gives the program redshirted depth in some key positions that typically need redshirts(OL, DL, TE, QB) no more 220 lb DE's and 18 year old starters up front.

It also has plugged holes in the secondary which has been decimated by attrition/other issues. Might not be stellar, but we'll have bodies and some experience.

Finally it seems like most of these kids are ok/good students, ok/good citizens, and haven't been sold on snake oil or unrealistic recruiting pitches. All that adds up to a good shot at keeping the majority of these kids until their seniors years.

I think that besides the change in schemes and coaches, attrition and transfers is what truly did Brewster in. There are way too many names who signed letters of intent to the U and didn't impact the program at all or did for only a season or two.
Keep a kid like Plsek or Eric Murray around for 5 years and i'm betting you get an impact from that scholarship.

All very good points Ole and I think the last few paragraphs are really key. Hopefully with the JUCOs coming in, Kill can red-shirt most of the incoming freshmen and start the five-year cycle that all the good programs have.

It wouldn't have saved him, but Brewster's decision to burn a ton of red-shirts really hurt (at least in my view). You have to get kids in, keep them in school and eligible, and build up quality depth across the board. Sprinkle in some playmakers and the program should be solid.
 

I'll add that with the limited scholarships next year we probably won't see Kill take many risks until the 2014 class, maybe by then we've established the program and a rapport with some top prospects and can land that impact type freshman. Until then though I just see Kill trying to "heal" the program and add depth and age to our now thin and young positions.
 

Sounds like a plan Killjoy!

I took a look at the current verbals and which coach was the lead recruiter. To date it shows; Miller-5, Poore-5, Zebrowski-5, Sawvel-2, Limegrover-2 and Anderson-1. Not all verbals list a lead recruiter so this is not a complete list and some list two coaches.

Reading GI, I was under the impression that Coach Sawvel was a name that has been mentioned by many recruits.

It appears that Coach Kill is intent on bringing in players "who want to be at Minnesota." I know this is a cliche that has been used many times in the past, but I have the feeling that Kill is bringing in kids who really mean that. They seem to be high quality young men. But this is one main key to success.

One thing that has hamstrung the program for years has been high roster turnover. Rosters full of players who really did not want to be at the UM for various reasons. Both Mason and Brewster failed in this area and, as a result, depth suffered.

Volumes have been posted about Coach Kills inability to draw in the name recruits thus the need to bring in lesser recruited athletes. And then coach them up. This is common amongst the majority of BCS teams.

So our roster will be made up of a bunch of "project-type" players who, if given a chance, may develop into good players. Rather than be thrown out there before they are "game ready" like we have seen for a long time as well as this past season.

To date, the number of transfers have been less than in the past. Lets hope this trend continues.

Depth is the key and Coach Kill knows that very well.
 

It appears that Coach Kill is intent on bringing in players "who want to be at Minnesota." I know this is a cliche that has been used many times in the past, but I have the feeling that Kill is bringing in kids who really mean that. They seem to be high quality young men. But this is one main key to success.

One thing that has hamstrung the program for years has been high roster turnover. Rosters full of players who really did not want to be at the UM for various reasons. Both Mason and Brewster failed in this area and, as a result, depth suffered.

Volumes have been posted about Coach Kills inability to draw in the name recruits thus the need to bring in lesser recruited athletes. And then coach them up. This is common amongst the majority of BCS teams.

So our roster will be made up of a bunch of "project-type" players who, if given a chance, may develop into good players. Rather than be thrown out there before they are "game ready" like we have seen for a long time as well as this past season.

To date, the number of transfers have been less than in the past. Lets hope this trend continues.

Depth is the key and Coach Kill knows that very well.

I think it is a little early to judge the quality of character on the kids being recruited because we really know next to nothing about how they will behave once they get on campus. I totally agree with the point on roster turnover being an issue, that combined with all the coaching changes the last few years makes it tough to find consistency.

Recruiting the lesser known guys can certainly work if you get the right ones. Recruiting is very subjective so two people can look at the same recruit and have a different opinion on him. Kill will get things back on track with stability and more of an old school approach, I have no doubt we will be middle of the pack in the next year or so, the million dollar question will be, can Kill get us to the next level where we are in the mix for the conference title at least every few years?
 

I think it is a little early to judge the quality of character on the kids being recruited because we really know next to nothing about how they will behave once they get on campus. I totally agree with the point on roster turnover being an issue, that combined with all the coaching changes the last few years makes it tough to find consistency.

Recruiting the lesser known guys can certainly work if you get the right ones. Recruiting is very subjective so two people can look at the same recruit and have a different opinion on him. Kill will get things back on track with stability and more of an old school approach, I have no doubt we will be middle of the pack in the next year or so, the million dollar question will be, can Kill get us to the next level where we are in the mix for the conference title at least every few years?

There have been bits and pieces of info on quite a few recruits that lead to strong work ethics and involved community work, along with solid academics, it may turn out not to be so, but there have been some positive signs.

Agreed on the point that we will be middle of the pack soon, as for the next step, I think it's obvious that the type of success we all want to see here is going to take time. It's simply not likely to follow a 3-4 year turnaround from crap to roses, possible yes, but more likely we will be able to build a solid program and if we can sustain that over time we can put in place the foundation for an impact recruit or superstar to flourish in and "lead us to the promised land". If 4 years from now this incoming class has 18+ kids still on the roster we'll be in good shape.
 

There have been bits and pieces of info on quite a few recruits that lead to strong work ethics and involved community work, along with solid academics, it may turn out not to be so, but there have been some positive signs.

Agreed on the point that we will be middle of the pack soon, as for the next step, I think it's obvious that the type of success we all want to see here is going to take time. It's simply not likely to follow a 3-4 year turnaround from crap to roses, possible yes, but more likely we will be able to build a solid program and if we can sustain that over time we can put in place the foundation for an impact recruit or superstar to flourish in and "lead us to the promised land". If 4 years from now this incoming class has 18+ kids still on the roster we'll be in good shape.

I think many people don't realize how realistic it is (or not as improbable) for the stars to align and for things to actually go WELL for a change. You don't have to hit on ALL of your recruits to be successful and I think that's largely forgotten.

Take this year's JUCO group for example. If it turns out that Gillum is a starter or primary back, the WR comes up with 25-35 catches, and ONE of the DB's is a starter and one of the other two is at least a nickel contributor, it will be a home run. More than that would be gravy.

The JUCO's work out as I mentioned, a few youngsters step up, and most importantly, they stay relatively healthy (which should improve with a full offseason under Kill's strength and conditioning program), and there's not a doubt in my mind that next year will be a good year; better than most expect.

The injuries that concerned me the most last year were on the O-Line; Gjere and the Olson's, in particular, I think really lost out on some valuable game experience by missing time. Had Gjere started and played the entire season, I would expect much more from him next year. I think he'll be better, just from simply being another year older, stronger, and smarter, but playing the whole year would have been nice. Hopefully we can see the same 7-8 guys getting regular time on the O-line next year.
 




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