Phillip Nelson Today

Donate To GopherHole
D

diefirma

Active member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
473
Reaction score
120
Points
43
I just got back from the playoffs. I specifically went to watch Phillip Nelson.

The good news - He accurate on short to medium passes and throws well on the run His long passes need some work but some of that could be due to his receivers. A couple of times on long passes they picked up the pace when they could see the pass was going to be too long. Perhaps if they had been running full speed the entire time the passes would have been on target. He also seemed to have good field awareness. He does have a nice quick release.

The Bad - There is no chance he runs a 4.4 or even a 4.5 as someone posted on here. He did have a nice long run for a touchdown and I would say he is faster than Shortell but slower than Gray.

I would also say there is no chance he starts next year. He may not even start as a RS freshman. He will have to work hard to beat out Shortell. This is not to dog on the kid - just to say he is a nice PROSPECT at this time. In a few years I could easily see him as a good B10 QB.

Two players to keep an eye on from this game.

Bemidji has a slim 6'9" 270lb 11th grade tackle that the U should watch. I would say he is a bit slow for B10 tackle but that could change as he grows into his frame.

Bemidji also has a nice receiver - Carey Woods. He is 6'1" and 185 and to my eye was the fastest player on the field. He is a senior and at the least should get a walk on offer from the U.

By the way, the best QB on the field today was Bemidji's. Very accurate. He is listed at 6' and 160 lbs but I doubt he is that tall. Too small for the U but would make a nice D2 or D3 QB

Bottom line - I am glad we have Nelson but I’m not expecting anything for a few years.
 

I didn't go to the game but I did watch and I came away with pretty much the exact same thoughts. That Nelson has the potential to be great and a star for us but he is not Joe Mauer and he could definitely use a redshirt. I was also really impressed with Woods as well but I don't know if I'm just blind or dumb but I didn't even notice this tackle everyone is talking about.
 

I've seen a lot of good deep throws from him but they've been highlights...so I can't comment on consistency but ability is there at least.

And I'm not one who's ready to give him the Heisman already but I don't understand all these people pointing out that he doesn't run a 4.4. Of course he doesn't. MBIII's best 40 was barely under 4.5 after 5 months of training specifically to run the best 40 he could at the combine and pro day.
 

Gophers09 said:
I've seen a lot of good deep throws from him but they've been highlights...so I can't comment on consistency but ability is there at least.

And I'm not one who's ready to give him the Heisman already but I don't understand all these people pointing out that he doesn't run a 4.4. Of course he doesn't. MBIII's best 40 was barely under 4.5 after 5 months of training specifically to run the best 40 he could at the combine and pro day.
Click to expand...
I think the comments about him not running a 4.5 is because awhile back there was a big thread with a couple people claiming that he did run a 4.4-4.5 despite a bunch of people saying that was almost impossible
 

He ran a 4.48 handheld time, so ~4.65 - 4.70 electronic probably. I think once Friesen went down with an injury the offense kind of stalled for West. He's Philip's security blanket and without him, and not to mention Severns who got banged up, there were plenty of Sophomores and Juniors taking WR snaps that weren't as experienced. However, I heard he still passed for 300 and rushed for 200 (just what I heard don't quote me haha).

Gotta give a lot of credit to Bemidji's defensive gameplan though. Looked like a blowout waiting to happen four minutes into the first quarter but they kept West out of the endzone for basically the rest of the game. Carey Woods is a great player and should get an offer/preferred walk-on spot for the Gophers in my opinion. A 6'1" receiver with that speed is hard to come by in MN. Definitely impressive!
 


I had planned on talking to Phil after the game, but once they lost, I decided the interview could wait. He finished 24 of 42 for 307 yards and 2 TDs. He rushed 25 times for 183 yards in the 45-26 loss to Bemidji.
 

Chris Monter said:
I had planned on talking to Phil after the game, but once they lost, I decided the interview could wait. He finished 24 of 42 for 307 yards and 2 TDs. He rushed 25 times for 183 yards in the 45-26 loss to Bemidji.
Click to expand...
490 yards of offense from Nelson and they lost. Team needed a defense.
 

The injuries to the Mankato West receivers hurt a lot, but I give credit to Bemidji. They were down 14-0 2:39 into the game after West scored on their first drive and recovered a fumble on the kickoff. The Lumberjacks only allowed two field goals and a 67 yard Nelson touchdown run after that.
 

Nelson looked good today, not as good as he did against SSP. I think a lot of that had to do with Friesen going down. He wasn't as accurate on the deep pass today, but I do think that was largely to do with not having his two best WR's healthy. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't as sharp either.

He's a decent runner, but probably not even as fast as Harnish. He is still a perfect fit into Kill's offense.

As far as the Mauer comment (it was in reference to mine), I think some people forget just how good that Cretin team was.

We had two (maybe three) WRs who were as good if not better than Friesen. They were similar guys who were fast, great hands, good route runners who didn't have Div 1 size (I think two of the guys COULD have played for the U). We had a tight end who ended up going to Notre Dame, our running back was better than any RB in the state this year, and our offensive line had 3 div 1 SRs, some really talented underclassmen as well. Our defense also had 2 Div 1 Srs. My point....Mauer was good and was one of the best players on the team, but if you magically switched Nelson with Mauer....we win the state and he's every bit as good as Mauer. I don't think Mauer gets 500 yards of offense if he was in Nelson's shoes today.

Mauer was really good, huge arm, smart, accurate...however, he had a long windup, wasn't as good of a runner as Nelson and didn't throw on the run as well as Nelson.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Nelson looked good today, not as good as he did against SSP. I think a lot of that had to do with Friesen going down. He wasn't as accurate on the deep pass today, but I do think that was largely to do with not having his two best WR's healthy. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't as sharp either.

He's a decent runner, but probably not even as fast as Harnish. He is still a perfect fit into Kill's offense.

As far as the Mauer comment (it was in reference to mine), I think some people forget just how good that Cretin team was.

We had two (maybe three) WRs who were as good if not better than Friesen. They were similar guys who were fast, great hands, good route runners who didn't have Div 1 size (I think two of the guys COULD have played for the U). We had a tight end who ended up going to Notre Dame, our running back was better than any RB in the state this year, and our offensive line had 3 div 1 SRs, some really talented underclassmen as well. Our defense also had 2 Div 1 Srs. My point....Mauer was good and was one of the best players on the team, but if you magically switched Nelson with Mauer....we win the state and he's every bit as good as Mauer. I don't think Mauer gets 500 yards of offense if he was in Nelson's shoes today.

Mauer was really good, huge arm, smart, accurate...however, he had a long windup, wasn't as good of a runner as Nelson and didn't throw on the run as well as Nelson.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to call you out with the Mauer comment, I realize its your opinion and we disagree. I also know that you played with Mauer so your take is probably better than mine but the thing you keep forgetting to mention is that while Mauer had better players around him he also played much better competition and Mauer was widely considered the best player in the country.

When I watch Nelson he doesn't do anything that tons of kids across the country don't do, I mean he plays great and I think he has the potential to be great in college. But I think that he is a solid 4 star player not the 5 star that Mauer was.

Just my opinion
 

DrunkGopher said:
I didn't mean to call you out with the Mauer comment, I realize its your opinion and we disagree. I also know that you played with Mauer so your take is probably better than mine but the thing you keep forgetting to mention is that while Mauer had better players around him he also played much better competition and Mauer was widely considered the best player in the country.

When I watch Nelson he doesn't do anything that tons of kids across the country don't do, I mean he plays great and I think he has the potential to be great in college. But I think that he is a solid 4 star player not the 5 star that Mauer was.

Just my opinion
Click to expand...

No, I didn't take it in a bad way, I was just responding to your comment. I can understand why people would think that Mauer was signficantly better than Nelson, and he was REALLY good. I just think that Mauer played with SO much talent, arguably the most talented MN HS football teams ever, that he looked even better than he really was (which was already obviously great).

Imagine how good Nelson would have looked with 4 Div 1 OL (3 SR and 1 JR), 3 WRs close to (or better) than Friesen and the best TE (probably 2nd best behind Carlson) and RB in the state (both Notre Dame players).

But I can understand why people would argue that Mauer was better, he played against the big schools, the premier team, had the cannon arm, and was a fantastic football player. I just think Nelson does things that Mauer wouldn't have been very comfortable doing.

I think in another thread I compared Mauer to Brady and Nelson to Rodgers (in style). If given time to sit in the pocket, Mauer was perfect, rarely didn't throw a perfect pass with a perfect read.
 

Joe Mauer was considered the top recruit in the country his senior year. Nelson is a special player, but Mauer was the best h.s player in the nation in two sports
 

bemidjigopher said:
Joe Mauer was considered the top recruit in the country his senior year. Nelson is a special player, but Mauer was the best h.s player in the nation in two sports
Click to expand...

I get that, I think Mauer was partially overvalued and I think Nelson is undervalued.

He played with probably the most talented team in MN, ever, and he played against horrible competition (they were still in the Saint Paul City conference). His stats were obviously gaudy, he was a great player and he deserved to be highley recruited.

I'm not saying Nelson is better than Mauer, I just think he's more of a natural passer. What I mean by that is that he is better at throwing on the run and throwing from non-ideal situations. When Mauer had time, in a pocket, he was the best. Mauer probably deserved to be the higher rated recruit because his arm strength was NFL caliber. Nelson does not have that. However, in my opinion (which is obviously debatebale), Nelson is more versatile as a thrower.

If they both played for teams that had great WR's, great offensive lines, and great running backs...I would take Mauer. If I needed to count on one of them to do everything (like Nelson at Mankato West), it's a lot closer.
 



Nelson is an above average QB. He is over-hyped because of his cream puff schedule that he played every year. It's as simple as that. To even put his name in the same sentence as Mauer is pretty ridiculous.
 

Watched the first half on the web and was impressed. The speed question becomes one of 40 yard time versus football speed and what I saw from Nelson is that he has above average football speed. No way he beats Gray in a 40 yard dash, but I wonder who would win the 10 yard dash?

I was extremely impressed with his ball handling skills. He gets into and out of his throwing motion effortlessly and smoothly, which allows him to throw on the run.

He obviously has a ton of arm strength and can throw all the passes, but I couldn't figure out why West kept throwing the ball deep down the field, especially after Freisen was hobbled.

I'm optimistic that he will be effective at the college level, but I don't want to just throw him out there. A red-shirt will well serve all concerned.
 

Glad to see a lot of the talk of Nelson starting as a freshman has gone away. The kid certainly has the raw ability to be a very good player for the Gophers but it is going to take him some time to adjust to the college game. Best thing that can happen is for him to sit for a year or two and then get handed the keys to the offense when he is ready.
 

Mauer was so hyped because he was multisport talented and also cause cretin was essentially running a spread that no one knew how to stop. Everyone was running 4-4s to stop the wing t at that point. You couldn't stop Mauer with cover 3 and that's all anyone could run (any of the good teams anyways).
 

Rosemountian said:
Mauer was so hyped because he was multisport talented and also cause cretin was essentially running a spread that no one knew how to stop. Everyone was running 4-4s to stop the wing t at that point. You couldn't stop Mauer with cover 3 and that's all anyone could run (any of the good teams anyways).
Click to expand...

We weren't really running a spread, we were running a pro style set. Rashon Powers ran for almost 2000 his senior season and had some insane touchdown total.

Nelson runs much more of a spread than Cretin did with Mauer.
 

Excuse ran an offense. Not spread option. But 4 verts all over the place. Cretin beat a 9-1 Eagan team that had given up fewer than 10 points a game 63-34 or Something like that. They ran a passing attack that wing t defenses couldn't stop. Shouldn't have spread. They spread the field vertically and horizontally to the poor where cover three didn't work and that's what most of the competition was running at the time.
 

JackiO said:
Nelson is an above average QB. He is over-hyped because of his cream puff schedule that he played every year. It's as simple as that. To even put his name in the same sentence as Mauer is pretty ridiculous.
Click to expand...

So Nelson was overhyped because of his cream puff schedule and Mauer wasn't overhyped by our extremely easy schedule? Remember, we were in the St. Paul City conference in the Mauer years.

Imagine the numbers Nelson would have put up with 2 more receivers as good as Friesen, 3 D1 OL, D1 TE, and a Prep All American RB, because the St. Paul City conference is every bit as bad (probably worse) than Nelson's conference. And yes, I understand how thin that conference was this year.

You can't argue that Nelson only looks good because of the competition he has faced when Mauer faced probably worse competition (with a MUCH better team).

The 1999 team was so good, they would have blown out everyone, and we did. Mauer was fantastic and probably the best player on the team, but an average HS QB would've looked amazing that year. His 2000 team was very good, had a lot of talent (lost a LOT of talent), and put up incredible numbers, however, they weren't that good against the best teams, and Mauer was just OK. They were shutdown by EP, I think scored 10 or 14. They lost to Wayzata in the reg season and squeeked by them in the playoffs.
 

Rosemountian said:
Excuse ran an offense. Not spread option. But 4 verts all over the place. Cretin beat a 9-1 Eagan team that had given up fewer than 10 points a game 63-34 or Something like that. They ran a passing attack that wing t defenses couldn't stop. Shouldn't have spread. They spread the field vertically and horizontally to the poor where cover three didn't work and that's what most of the competition was running at the time.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying.

Yeah, our receivers didn't and still don't run complicated routes. It's essentially the power running/vertical passing game. But yeah, we were a bit ahead of our time, most HS teams had never even practiced any sort of coverage beyond cover 3. It was especially apparent in conference games, where a lot of the teams were running cover 1.

I actually thought teams were way too afraid to blitz Mauer. Every team seemed to practice coverage with almost no blitzing, and we were so talented that sitting back and letting him have time was a god awful idea. EP and even Wayzata when they gave CDH fits in 2000, they did it by stopping the run and then bringing pressure. Mauer still burnt Wayzata a few times because he was that good, but those teams also forced quite a few mistakes.
 

Didn't the 99 team lose to Wayzata? Because the eagan vs cretin section final was in Eagan and Eagan had lost to Eden prairie that year.

Or was that 98?
 


Crap.

I was hoping to see Nelson play against my Pioneers next weekend. Now it's looking like neither Hill nor Mankato West will be playing. Oh well, it was a great season.
 


Nelson"s old man is another Craig james i hear and will be a huge PIA for Kill kid isn't that good and is a whiner when he doesn't get his way
 

DocfromDarwin said:
Nelson"s old man is another Craig james i hear and will be a huge PIA for Kill kid isn't that good and is a whiner when he doesn't get his way
Click to expand...

AND you heard that from your dad's sister's brother's barber???
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom