QB situation going forward

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There is another thing to consider in this debate. Is the team better with a QB that is maybe second best if the first best QB becomes the best WR? It's not as simple as saying if Gray is the better QB, then play him. If Shortell is a little behind Gray but Gray has no one to throw to where Shortell could throw to Gray, that changes the equation. I don't know if this is necessarily an accurate statement that the team is better w/ Shortell as starter and Nelson backup w/ Gray at WR, but I don't think it's cut and dry. It depends a lot on what receivers we have next year...
 

Rosemountian said:
Definitely not writing him off. I'm just not one to proclaim him anything more than what he is. A freshman backup who only played because the starter was kept having health issues.

He will get a shot. And he should. I wouldn't bet on him though. I have not been impressed by him nearly as much as some others have.
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Uh Oh, look out, I agree with you on this on Rose. Also, earlier in the thread I said Nelson would be the QB from 2013-2016 and was ripped for prediciting that. Of course I do not know what will happen in 2016, I just get the sense that Nelson is the type of QB that fits this system perfectly, will red-shirt and beat out Shortell in 2013 and be a 4-year starter. Do I know this will happen? Heck no, just a prediction.

I cannot predict injuries or how a kid will adjust to the HUGE jump in competition, I just have a feeling Nelson will be the answer.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Is the team better with a QB that is maybe second best if the first best QB becomes the best WR?
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No. Unless you're a service academy or another team that runs 75% or more of the time, having the best possible QB you can put on the field is of paramount importance.

Lakeville Goldy said:
It's not as simple as saying if Gray is the better QB, then play him.
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Yes, it is. Would you rather have your best player touching the ball 30-40 times a game, or (at best) 8-10?
 

Since we are all on the speculation bandwagon, how about this for consideration equation?

a) Shortell transfers - perhaps he reads all this speculation, thinks he has no shot here and decides to take his 3 remaining yrs of eligibility elsewhere
b) Someone gets injured - this is the game changer and the reason you bring in new talent every season
c) Foreman becomes a beast in Spring ball and beats out everyone including the new savior
d) Gray decides he has had enough and declares for NFL draft (not out of the realm of possibility)
 

WHB Brewer said:
Since we are all on the speculation bandwagon, how about this for consideration equation?

d) Gray decides he has had enough and declares for NFL draft (not out of the realm of possibility)
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I really like Gray and have wanted him to be the QB all along. Please tell me the above comment is tounge-in-cheek. If it is not, you have some serious explaining to do. Gray going to the NFL draft?
 


mattw1067 said:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2011&workout=FORTY_YARD_DASH&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC
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I'm really glad you posted that link. Let's examine it in a little more detail for a moment.

To start, how many football players graduate and/or leave early for the NFL each year? Thousands?

Out of those thousands, how many ran a true 4.40 or better, in a highly monitored and accurate environment?

Ten.

And these are all young men who are all between the ages of 21-25.

They have all had the benefit of 3-5 years' worth of high-level speed and fitness training from individuals who get paid six or seven figures annually to do so.

How many of those 10 are QBs? Zero.

How many of those 10 are white? Zero.

How many of those 10 come from Minnesota? Zero.

How many of those 10 come from a state within 3 states of Minnesota? Zero.

How many of those 10 are 6'3" or taller? One - Julio Jones. You know, the top 10 overall draft pick who played in the best amateur football conference on Earth and a guy who is getting paid millions of dollars to ply his trade?

How many of those 10 are 216 lbs. or heavier? Two - the aforementioned Julio Jones and Mario Fannin, who also played in the SEC, except for the best amateur football team on Earth in the 2010-11 season.

So, yes, it's totally plausible that Philip Nelson runs a 4.40 40.:rolleyes:

Can't we just say that he's fast for a big, tall QB and leave it at that? Why do people have to assign such ridiculous hyperbole to everything?
 

Stan The Caddy said:
I really like Gray and have wanted him to be the QB all along. Please tell me the above comment is tounge-in-cheek. If it is not, you have some serious explaining to do. Gray going to the NFL draft?
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Dumber decisions have been made. Others have thought their talent beyond reality. consider Ralph Sampson III considered before withdrawing. Perhaps Gray needs a paycheck? Considering all the things he has dealt with over the past 4yrs (HS Sr. injury, ACT fiasco/sit out 1yr, play WR, coach fired, play QB in new system, battle new guy), he may say enough and move on.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
this is a good thread. mostly.

there needs to be less freaking out about conversations about where the team is heading. that's all we've got right now.

also, if gray continues to improve, then he will be the odds on favorite to start next year and will give kill the luxury to red shirt nelson. however, saying that gray is the starter next year as if that ends the conversation is just crotchety (and irrational). a million things could happen before next season that could change things, not least that nelson might be better. this is a message board and its purpose is to elicit discussion. why do people feel the need to shut down any discussion that they disagree with?

gray has looked great the last two games, but he isn't even at adam weber levels yet. he's got 8 tds and 7 ints. in his career. his rating is 122. his completion percentage is hovering around 50%. remember weber's performance versus michigan state in 2009? coming off three poor performances he went out and 19 of 31 for 416 and 5 tds and a 220 passing rating. everyone here jumped back on the weber bandwagon really quick.

remember, kill does not run the stanford offense. there have been true freshmen that have started in spread option offenses. i don't think that gray has been all that good at reading the option, though he has shown improvement, and yes i know that kill's is not a pure spread option (though it features heavily). but if nelson can read the defense on the option play better than gray, then he could be the better qb for the system. who knows. of course that's speculation, but none of us are the ones making these decisions, so i don't suppose its worth raised voices.
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Aren't you the same guy that predicted Alipate would be the starting QB this year? Gray just had the best two passing games (as measured by QB ranking) since Cupito in 2006. Sorry, the last two games were better than any two in a row that Weber ever had. Plus they were against good competition. And people like you are ready to move him to WR, which he played one year with moderate success, and annoint a true freshman from Mankato the starting QB. Unbelievable...
 

WHB Brewer said:
Dumber decisions have been made. Others have thought their talent beyond reality. consider Ralph Sampson III considered before withdrawing. Perhaps Gray needs a paycheck? Considering all the things he has dealt with over the past 4yrs (HS Sr. injury, ACT fiasco/sit out 1yr, play WR, coach fired, play QB in new system, battle new guy), he may say enough and move on.
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Because MarQuies Gray really strikes you as a guy who thinks his talent is beyond reality? Unbelievable. He has stated countless times that he WANTS to play QB in college. I have never heard an interview where he discusses his potential of playing professional football. He is improving EVERY game and said himself this week that he really has enjoyed evolving into more of a leader for this team. Comparing Gray to RSIII is apples-to-oranges. It is so different I am not going to take the time to explain it to you.

As has been said many times on this thread, Gray is the QB this year and next year, he is not going back to WR and he certainly is not going to the NFL after this year. After that it will be a competition, most likely between Shortell, Nelson, Foreman, Parrish and Leidner.
 




OK, cross him off then! As I stated before, I think it will be Nelson, but figured I would throw everybody in the mix...
 

Going back to the original topic of the post, it would make more sense to have Nelson RS immediately so he can get a grip of the offense completely before he sees the field. We have depth at QB, and I would be willing to take another year in the crapper if it means Nelson will be more prepared when he comes in. Kill has stated that he would prefer to redshirt everyone when they come in if he is able to do so because it gets them more time in the program and gets them on board with his way of doing things. If we have Gray/Shortell/Alipate/Foreman why not redshirt Nelson? I feel that we are going to continue to have growing pains next year, and Nelson should be saved for when we're in a position to break out and put up some .500+ BT seasons.
 

ran into a bunch of video clips of nelson at scarlettouchdownclub on youtube.
Kid is legit, hits kids in stride, throwing under pressure with great accuracy, barking out audibles, hitting open guys quickly, running with good power and some impressive speed/quicks.
Compares to me like a bigger, faster(maybe) Dan Persa.
 




Ole said:
ran into a bunch of video clips of nelson at scarlettouchdownclub on youtube.
Kid is legit, hits kids in stride, throwing under pressure with great accuracy, barking out audibles, hitting open guys quickly, running with good power and some impressive speed/quicks.
Compares to me like a bigger, faster(maybe) Dan Persa.
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Yeah, I watched those clips too - the kid is good. We haven't had a QB recruit this polished since I started paying attention to this stuff - let's say right around the time the Rivals database begins.

Kill will make the right decision next fall - we don't know what that is yet, but it's Gray's spot to lose.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
OK, cross him off then! As I stated before, I think it will be Nelson, but figured I would throw everybody in the mix...
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At least I hope he will be. He is a 7 on 7 all American, but when the bodies start flying he isn't that great. So I hope the coaches see that and move him to a spot where they can use him. If he plays qb I think liedner becomes alipate 2.0. Good player when it's non-contact.
 

Rosemountian said:
At least I hope he will be. He is a 7 on 7 all American, but when the bodies start flying he isn't that great. So I hope the coaches see that and move him to a spot where they can use him. If he plays qb I think liedner becomes alipate 2.0. Good player when it's non-contact.
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The scary thing about Nelson is that they've faced such little competition, that he is often running a version of 7 on 7. I wish I could have seen Nelson playing in Leidner's conference, just so I could see how he reacted to good/punishing defenses.

That said, I am going to see him play against SSP, maybe they'll push him a little.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The scary thing about Nelson is that they've faced such little competition, that he is often running a version of 7 on 7. I wish I could have seen Nelson playing in Leidner's conference, just so I could see how he reacted to good/punishing defenses.

That said, I am going to see him play against SSP, maybe they'll push him a little.
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I doubt you will see it Friday night. If I am in town, I am going to head out to the game. I fully expect to see Mankato West blow SSP off the field. SSP's only chance is to grind it out offensively and keep Nelson on the bench.
 

WHB Brewer said:
Since we are all on the speculation bandwagon, how about this for consideration equation?

a) Shortell transfers - perhaps he reads all this speculation, thinks he has no shot here and decides to take his 3 remaining yrs of eligibility elsewhere
b) Someone gets injured - this is the game changer and the reason you bring in new talent every season
c) Foreman becomes a beast in Spring ball and beats out everyone including the new savior
d) Gray decides he has had enough and declares for NFL draft (not out of the realm of possibility)
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So Gray is going to declare for the NFL draft?
 

dpodoll68 said:
No, they don't. I'm just aMy buddy has two seats for the gopher/badger game. $50 a piece. 30 yardline. Sunny side. Upper deck. You and joe interested? random nobody. My opinions mean nothing in the grand scale. When someone's close friend/family member/etc. is posting about the person they're close to, they need to disclose it if they want to be taken seriously. Why do you suppose that Wikipedia bans people from editing their own profiles?



What if someone was, say, a moderator for this site and still posted as a 'random nobody'? Would this. Break this unwritten rule of yours?
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Don't forget that much of the success and failures this season from the quarterback position has been largely dictated by the play of the offensive line. Other factors like dropped passes and stupid penalties have also killed drives and made matters worse. Both Gray and Shortell were affected by this early in the year and with Shortell's limited playing time you must take that into account.

Gray's confidence increased when the O-line started to play better as a group. His increased confidence has allowed his natural instincts to take over so that can just react rather than think and THEN react. Right now and most likely next year he will be our best option at QB. Period.

Shortell has shown a lot of promise and obviously is the #2 QB going into spring ball next year. Alipate and Parrish look to be totally out of the mix. The challengers for the #2 spot, besides Shortell, are Foreman, Nelson and Leidner. Kill would likely prefer to redshirt the two freshmen but they will probably be allowed to challenge Shortell.

One of the most important aspects of the QB position is how well they are able to read defenses. In Limegrover's offense that he's been using for at least the past few years it's based on QB read options. They seem to favor athletic quarterbacks with a dual threat of pass or run but if one of these challengers is able to show that he is the best at making the right reads and executes the best then HE will be the man. Here's my logical take for the end of fall camp and my opinion of their attributes that would most affect the outcome :

(1) Gray - Experience, execution, knowledge of the offense, athletic ability that fits the offense, leadership, confidence

(2) Shortell - Experience, knowledge of the offense, execution, poise

(3) Foreman - Knowledge of the offense, athletic ability that fits the offense

(4) Nelson - (Redshirt) - Athletic ability that fits the offense, execution

(5) Leidner - (Redshirt) - Reads, execution

The real battle will be in 2013 with Shortell the slight favorite. There will be some seriously long threads on the board like this one then!
 

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