After The Last 2 Weeks...Are There Still Any DOUBTERS...???

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Rosemountian said:
I attributed losing by huge margins to the coaches while others attributed it to the players.
I attribute the last two game to the coaches seeing as how the gameplans have changed but the players have not. Has anyone said we only have played well because of players?we have the players to at least look like we belong on the field. We have the entire year. Not a catch 22. Reality.
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The players did not change? Not the physical bodies on the field. But it seems pretty clear that the mental aspect of the game changed for many players. The blowouts included a lot of hangdog attitudes and trouble with adversity. Against both Iowa and MSU, that wasn't evident.
 

Rosemountian said:
Who did that?
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The guy sitting next to me.

He also said he agrees with everything you say.

Probably just a coincidence.
 

They are really playing better the last two weeks, thats for sure. Still doubt they are good enough to compete for the upper half of the B10 though...
 




I only doubt rosemountain and a few others' ability to fairly judge what is going on with the team.

other than that, I am excited about the Gophs progress over the last two weeks. the light appears to have gone on for many of the players with the systems, especially Q. It gives me some hope for another win or two this season if we keep playing hard. regardless, it is great to see improvement and competitive football again, regardless of the loss today. Beat the Badgers!
 

everyone can see improvement has been made but to say there should be no more doubt and the corner has been turned is bit premature based on the last 2 games.

Kill himself has said this is going to take at least 4 recruiting classes.
 

I agree with Schnauzer that this game was the first one all season where I've understood what Limegrover and Claeys were trying to do. I've been most impressed with how Claeys seems to finally have a handle on who his best players are and how to use them most effectively. He still can't hide some guys that he needs to hide, but that's just a flat-out talent gap and he's no magician.

It is a Catch-22 to some extent in trying to find an explanation for our early ineptitude. I don't believe the cupboard was as bare as was the early contention, but it takes time for players and coaches to get on the same page and that may be part of it. Add to that Gray's injury and Kill's bout with seizures and there were more than a few distractions that helped contribute to the rocky start.

All in all, I'm heartened by the last two weeks, but we have to keep building on this. Still a few too many mistakes and while the O-line is working its collective tail off, they are a bit out-manned.
 

Rosemountian said:
Just because we have played well for two weeks in a row doesn't mean we werent ill prepared in 6 games this season.Let's also not pretend like I have been saying he is terrible. I've said I don't like the hire. I've also said I think he will take us back to slightly less than mason levels.

Let's also not forget that the excuse making after those three blowouts was that we don't have the talent to compete. Apparently we do.


Last two weeks have been great. Hopefully I am wrong and he turns out to be the guy to completely turn it around. But I am not for a minute going to lie and say I am completely sold.
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And exactly how do you know that we weren't PREPARED for 6 games this year. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the coaching has been consistent from day 1, but that now the kids are starting to get it and buy into the system? I'll say it again, this is exactly what Kill expected/stated might happen at the start of the year (slow start, then progress). It takes time with a new coach/system. I'm definately excited for our future with Kill. I believe it will turn out to be a great hire, but time will tell.
 



I can't even follow this thread. Who can't see this team is getting better? Not a program changer. Kill obviously knows what he's doing but a long ways to go before he gets to (even) Mason levels much less beyond. If you've even worn a JV uniform 20 yrs ago you have to admire how this team has improved. Credit Kill and staff.
 

I can't stand moral victories, still it was great to see the Gophers go on the road against a quality opponent and be competitive. The one part that does bug me is that we have been hearing from Kill that the talent is not there on this team to be competitive yet against USC, Iowa, and Michigan State the talent certainly seemed good enough to keep the team in the game.

Whether it was players not buying into the system or the coaches being unable to figure out how to use the guys they have, it is clear that there is some ability on this team and that maybe things are not quite as bleak as Kill and company are trying to paint them to be. Kill is doing the classic under sell, lowering expectations in order to keep the pressure as low as possible on his staff and then if things turn around quicker then he is saying they will, they come out looking even better. There is nothing wrong or unique with what he is doing but his comments to date about not having the talent to compete have bugged me because I have felt all along that there were some quality players on this squad. Not saying we should be in the title hunt but clearly good enough to beat the likes of New Mexico State and NDSU.

Hopefully they can continue to compete for the rest of the season and maybe even snag another win or two before it is all said and done.
 

You miss identified your self as a DOUBTER, when it seams more like you are rational supporter with doubt. There can be a gulf sized difference between the two.

In the same way Freshman or RSF no longer qualify as F or RSF at this point in the season so to at this point this team, this coaching staff can be thought of as being very different from the second game of the season.

Is it possible to have completely disciplined a team that had almost no discipline for years in a spring and thus far this fall? The past two weeks have not been perfect, but they have been greatly encouraging - even on the discipline angle. Things getting better.

Rosemountian said:
Just because we have played well for two weeks in a row doesn't mean we werent ill prepared in 6 games this season.

Let's also not pretend like I have been saying he is terrible. I've said I don't like the hire. I've also said I think he will take us back to slightly less than mason levels.

Let's also not forget that the excuse making after those three blowouts was that we don't have the talent to compete. Apparently we do.


Last two weeks have been great. Hopefully I am wrong and he turns out to be the guy to completely turn it around. But I am not for a minute going to lie and say I am completely sold.
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As others have said, progress is being made. But to say the corner has been turned is nearly as ridiculous as those who were all over Coach Kill eight days ago.

My only gripe with the playcalling was the use of play action on 4th and 10 from midfield with 4-5 minutes to play. Not sure what play action accomplishes in that situation.

Other than that, and the continued struggles of a certain DB, could not be more pleased with the effort today.
 



scools12 said:
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just like 08 when they beat Illinois. program changer!
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I_see_what_you_did_there_super.jpg
 

Jike Spingleton said:
As others have said, progress is being made. But to say the corner has been turned is nearly as ridiculous as those who were all over Coach Kill eight days ago.

My only gripe with the playcalling was the use of play action on 4th and 10 from midfield with 4-5 minutes to play. Not sure what play action accomplishes in that situation.

Other than that, and the continued struggles of a certain DB, could not be more pleased with the effort today.
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Yes! christian lewis is soo scared to tackle anybody that it is embarassing! He is straight up awful. If that is who you are talking about of course. :)
 

This is what happened with the Mason regime.


Prado89 said:
Pat Forde
“Wow, Gophers up early on Michigan State. Maybe the lights are coming on for that team. Big win last week over Iowa.”

Seems like we’re getting more positive feedback from other parts of the country than in TC. The team needs to get more constructive criticisms for recruiting process.
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THIS!

GoAUpher said:
The players did not change? Not the physical bodies on the field. But it seems pretty clear that the mental aspect of the game changed for many players. The blowouts included a lot of hangdog attitudes and trouble with adversity. Against both Iowa and MSU, that wasn't evident.
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The Gophers turned *A* corner. They didn't turn *THE* corner. There are a lot more than one corner, there are still more corners to turn. This team is learning the system.
 


Round hole, square peg

From day one, Kill set the "round hole"' i.e. what is expected in academics, discipline, football, schematics, etc. It has been pretty evident and painful that there were a lot of "square pegs" on this team when the season began. In no way when I say square pegs do I mean bad football players or people, simply players who had no experience/consistency in Kill"s or anybody else's system/requirements.

Instead of tweaking things from week to week, Kill opted to "build it on concrete" by setting the round hole, and teaching and recruiting players to be round pegs. What we have seen in the past two weeks is a bunch of square pegs becoming round pegs, which gives me hope for the future. I see marked improvement in so many players, Gray, Vereen, Jacobs, the Frosh DE's, DCT, The OL, etc.

It makes me optimistic that once Kill gets his roster filled with "round pegs" we might be pretty damn good.
 

There's still tons of room for doubt. That said, there's also plenty of room for optimism. The last thing the program needs right now is more doubters. Maybe Kill's in way over his head. Maybe he doesn't have what it takes to run a Big 10 program. But maybe he does. He's lost to NMSU and NDSU. That's beyond bad. He's also given a pair of Top 25 teams all they wanted on the road and beaten a rival in his first year. That's good. This team needs a "star". Gray certainly look the part more now than he did 6 weeks ago.
 

This is an odd thread to say the least. It is now an argument of semantics. I think we all agree that improvement is being made. Rose is so unhappy that progress is being made, he chooses to focus on the earlier part of the season where we were awful. That is fine, that is his choice.

I agree that no grand judgments or pronouncements can be made based on two weeks, but anybody who cannot see the improvement is just denying the facts and seeing what they want to see.

Also, nobody has mentioned that in the two big blowout losses, the starting QB was a true freshman who is scared of his own shadow. If anything and least the last few weeks have shut the play Shortell crowd up.
 

Some of you guys are unbelievable in how obtuse you are in your black/white view of football/fan support/anything.


Things aren't as simple as some of you like to think they are. You can say a coach didn't prepare his team well for a bunch of games this year and still be a supporter of the program.
 

Obtuse? What, am I Warden Norton?

Rose, seriously. What are you looking at to claim the team was unprepared? Everything this team is doing is different than they did in the past. Clearly it is going to take time to get this done. Also, as I said before, in the Michigan and Purdue game, Shortell started and was completely overwhelmed. I know you and I are both "Gray guys" so you have to be encouraged by his improvement. I know you did not like the Kill hire, so you will find anything to support your position, but you have to agree progress is being made. What I do not understand is how you are throwing out the blanket statement that the coaching staff had the team unprepared to play. Based on what? What are your examples?

I am of the opinion that is just took more time than most of us anticipated to "get" all of the new systems and what the new staff expects.
 

The posters who say the players are buying into Kill's system are convincing; it appears that some of the older players who were flat in earlier games are following the example of younger guys who were putting more into it and being rewarded with playing time. Plus, as some have pointed out, the siezures and Gray's injury and the two-QB experiment all hurt earlier. The last two games are what we were all hoping for from the start, but didn't see until the second half against Nebraska.
 

Rosemountian said:
Some of you guys are unbelievable in how obtuse you are in your black/white view of football/fan support/anything.
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This is like a French mime saying "some of you aren't using your voice to express yourself."
 

Still a long ways to go but heading in the right direction. I'm just happy that the people who really didn't have a clue about what was going on have stopped giving Kill advice on how to do things either on the field, in the lockerroom, or with the media.
 

What made us look unprepared earlier in the season was a cavalcade of mistakes. Absolutely nobody making plays. Therefore, we didn't have any players. And therefore we were playing from behind in a panic. Even then we typically played much better in the second halves.

The coaches have done a very good job with a very difficult situation. Give them credit.

The message board at Miss. St was talking about firing Dan Mullen. He has one conference win and he can't recruit. Lot easier to recruit to Florida and Alabama. I'm happy Jerry Kill is our coach.

Don't think anybody said you were not a Gopher fan Rosemountain. Just a lot people saying you are wrong.
 

As much as I like the premise, with all possible respect this thread just seems premature. Taking nothing from the Iowa win (still smiling) or being one play from beating MSU on the road (Truly AMAZING), but I like to dampen the highs and lows. Enjoying the highs, but not going to be disappointed if the hard times we knew we were going to have aren't over.

Go Gophers!
 

50PoundHead said:
I agree with Schnauzer that this game was the first one all season where I've understood what Limegrover and Claeys were trying to do. I've been most impressed with how Claeys seems to finally have a handle on who his best players are and how to use them most effectively. He still can't hide some guys that he needs to hide, but that's just a flat-out talent gap and he's no magician.

It is a Catch-22 to some extent in trying to find an explanation for our early ineptitude. I don't believe the cupboard was as bare as was the early contention, but it takes time for players and coaches to get on the same page and that may be part of it. Add to that Gray's injury and Kill's bout with seizures and there were more than a few distractions that helped contribute to the rocky start.

All in all, I'm heartened by the last two weeks, but we have to keep building on this. Still a few too many mistakes and while the O-line is working its collective tail off, they are a bit out-manned.
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what were they trying to do? please be specific

were they trying better to hit mcknight on an 8 yard stop and have him break 3 tackles and go all the way

was it grays leaping catch in the back of the endzone while being covered like a tree is with leaves

what was it you understood better?
 

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