Tailgating Options

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LloydChristmas

LloydChristmas

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With an outdoor stadium and the no-alcohol policy, I'm concerned that there will be no formal plans for tailgating at the new stadium.

What are the tailgating options at TCF for fans without a parking pass?
Will the Goal Line Club have a dedicated tailgating area open for the public?
Will there be any common areas dedicated to tailgating, and open containers?

There has been some limited discussion on other threads, but wondering if anything has been published yet.
 

I don't think they have posted anything yet, but unless you are big time you will most likely end up tailgating far away from the stadium.
 

Our group has leads on 4 lots. All of these lots are within 4-5 blocks of the stadium. The problem is Mpls. Will they issue permits for tailgaiting at a resonable price. Mpls. city council holds our fate in there hands and I don't like this idea at all. Even if your in a $2,000 Gopher lot, there are NO gurantees of being able to tailgate. Should know more by April, but who know's.
 

LloydChristmas said:
With an outdoor stadium and the no-alcohol policy, I'm concerned that there will be no formal plans for tailgating at the new stadium.

What are the tailgating options at TCF for fans without a parking pass?
Will the Goal Line Club have a dedicated tailgating area open for the public?
Will there be any common areas dedicated to tailgating, and open containers?

There has been some limited discussion on other threads, but wondering if anything has been published yet.
Click to expand...

The formal plans are being finalized. I asked a lot of questions about this when I took my tour of TCF last fall. Here's the basic outline as I understand it. The U will allow tailgating in their SURFACE lots only. That means approx 4,000 spots on the East Bank. The remaining 9,000 or so spots on the EB are in ramps/garages and will not have tailgating. The U has given a rough explanation of the donation policy for parking saying that there will be 2 “zones” that will require donations. I’ve attached a few images that show all the info that the U has posted on the Gopher Points website thus far. Without further details I’d assume that all surface lots on the EB will require a donation.

Without paying extra the other tailgating options the U is exploring all seem to be off site. A few surface lots that the U owns on the West Bank should likely allow tailgating, but there is an extremely limited # of these (most WB parking is ramp/garage). The main “free” tailgating option the U has publicly discussed is a) lots on the St. Paul campus or b) lots at the State Fairgrounds. Both of these would be served by the Campus Connectors (for free) which would be approx a 10 minute ride to the stadium.

From what we’ve been told the GLC is not receiving an allotment of surface spots.

The U hasn’t publicly discussed any “common areas” for tailgating (ala The Grove at Ol’ Miss) and when I asked about relaxed open container laws on my tour the response I got suggested “no”. There’s been discussion of a U run tailgate (similar to Hineygate at OSU) near the McNamara Alumni Center but its only speculation and would be more of a group gathering than everyone bringing grills, tents, etc.

dlw4gophers said:
Our group has leads on 4 lots. All of these lots are within 4-5 blocks of the stadium. The problem is Mpls. Will they issue permits for tailgaiting at a resonable price. Mpls. city council holds our fate in there hands and I don't like this idea at all. Even if your in a $2,000 Gopher lot, there are NO gurantees of being able to tailgate. Should know more by April, but who know's.
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This isn’t totally correct. The U’s lots don’t fall under the City’s ordinances. The U decides if tailgating is allowed, and the word is that they’ll allow it in the surface lots only.

You’re right about the private lots. The current Minneapolis ordinances only allow tailgating in the vicinity of the Dome. These would have to be changed for private lots to offer tailgating near TCF. The U officials I spoke with on my tour were not hopeful that the City would accommodate this prior to next season.

As I’ve said before, I think people who really want to tailgate better be prepared to be creative and flexible if they don’t like the U provided options. Things would be better if the City cooperates but they don’t seem inclined too. Hopefully this will change quickly.
 

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GoAUpher, you may want to edit your "banks"

Here's the basic outline as I understand it. The U will allow tailgating in their SURFACE lots only. That means approx 4,000 spots on the West Bank. The remaining 9,000 or so spots on the WB are in ramps/garages and will not have tailgating.
Click to expand...


Without paying extra the other tailgating options the U is exploring all seem to be off site. A few surface lots that the U owns on the Eastbank should likely allow tailgating, but there is an extremely limited # of these (most EB parking is ramp/garage).
Click to expand...

You have the East and West Banks flipped in the previous reply. Appreciate you having the foresight to ask the important "tailgating" questions.
 


norman dale said:
Appreciate you having the foresight to ask the important "tailgating" questions.
Click to expand...

Just doing my part to help everyone be better fans on game day.

I would hate to see typical Metrodome habits (arrive late, leave early) continue with the new stadium. That would do nothing for game day atmosphere.
 

Lloyd, not to burst your bubble but my

heathfelt thanks in my previous post was intended for GoAUpher whose wife purchased him a "stadium tour" and has posted in great detail both in written form and with photos about said tour. It was GoAUpher who asked the detailed questions regarding tailgating to Phil Esten, the U's lead stadium guy, during his tour.
 

norman dale said:
You have the East and West Banks flipped in the previous reply. Appreciate you having the foresight to ask the important "tailgating" questions.
Click to expand...

Yikes...you are correct...I've updated my post. -1 for me. :) Thanks!
 




I'd advise that tailgaters don't pick the two parking lots on St. Paul campus closest to the Fairgrounds. The skinny lot is about 12 feet from the beef barn, and the other one is just down the hill from the hog barns. For the hardy rural folks, tailgating there won't be much of an issue, but for townies, a hot October day might be more than they can stomach. They would be a good spot for the visiting team's tailgaters though.

GO GOPHERS!
 

Thanks GoAUpher

That was a great recap, and exactly the status on all fronts that I was looking for. I bet the tailgating situation will evolve each year, and hopefully what is allowed matches what the fans would like.

And Norman - Somehow my sarcasm meter was tripped on your sentence, must have been the cold-med-induced-stupor I was in at the time.
 

LloydChristmas said:
That was a great recap, and exactly the status on all fronts that I was looking for. I bet the tailgating situation will evolve each year, and hopefully what is allowed matches what the fans would like.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My plan is to be patient. I know that things won't be perfect right away but I hope that once the U and the City (ESPECIALLY the City!) actually see what the environment looks like they will make good adjustments (on their own if possible, with lobbying from fans if needed).
 

Hey Lloyd a Q for you

Are you the same Lloyd that used to post here? If I remember, he was somewhat complicit in the whole Kelly Leeks fiasco and maybe was banned or just disappeared.
 



Gut Cassidy said:
Are you the same Lloyd that used to post here?
Click to expand...

Nope.

Gut Cassidy said:
If I remember, he was somewhat complicit in the whole Kelly Leeks fiasco and maybe was banned or just disappeared.
Click to expand...

No idea what you are talking about. Please send me a summary offline though, as I may be in for a moniker change if I'll be unecessarily linked to old war crimes.
 

GoAUpher said:
The formal plans are being finalized. I asked a lot of questions about this when I took my tour of TCF last fall. Here's the basic outline as I understand it. The U will allow tailgating in their SURFACE lots only. That means approx 4,000 spots on the East Bank. The remaining 9,000 or so spots on the EB are in ramps/garages and will not have tailgating. The U has given a rough explanation of the donation policy for parking saying that there will be 2 “zones” that will require donations. I’ve attached a few images that show all the info that the U has posted on the Gopher Points website thus far. Without further details I’d assume that all surface lots on the EB will require a donation.

Without paying extra the other tailgating options the U is exploring all seem to be off site. A few surface lots that the U owns on the West Bank should likely allow tailgating, but there is an extremely limited # of these (most WB parking is ramp/garage). The main “free” tailgating option the U has publicly discussed is a) lots on the St. Paul campus or b) lots at the State Fairgrounds. Both of these would be served by the Campus Connectors (for free) which would be approx a 10 minute ride to the stadium.

From what we’ve been told the GLC is not receiving an allotment of surface spots.

The U hasn’t publicly discussed any “common areas” for tailgating (ala The Grove at Ol’ Miss) and when I asked about relaxed open container laws on my tour the response I got suggested “no”. There’s been discussion of a U run tailgate (similar to Hineygate at OSU) near the McNamara Alumni Center but its only speculation and would be more of a group gathering than everyone bringing grills, tents, etc.



This isn’t totally correct. The U’s lots don’t fall under the City’s ordinances. The U decides if tailgating is allowed, and the word is that they’ll allow it in the surface lots only.

You’re right about the private lots. The current Minneapolis ordinances only allow tailgating in the vicinity of the Dome. These would have to be changed for private lots to offer tailgating near TCF. The U officials I spoke with on my tour were not hopeful that the City would accommodate this prior to next season.

As I’ve said before, I think people who really want to tailgate better be prepared to be creative and flexible if they don’t like the U provided options. Things would be better if the City cooperates but they don’t seem inclined too. Hopefully this will change quickly.
Click to expand...

"The U’s lots don’t fall under the City’s ordinances." ??? Of course they do. The city council will have to rule (or has ruled) on any decisions involving alcohol in the U's outdoor lots and issue(d) permits. I have a feeling that what will transpire is similar to outdoor festivals, where the alcohol cannot leave the lots or may have to be cordoned off.

The city's biggest issue with lots is likely underage drinking. It is difficult to control on private property (even though the city of Minneapolis would love to trample on such personal rights/responsibility issues every day--that's another story for another time), but easy to control on city streets and sidewalks. However, how much police manpower do they want to waste on such a "politically important" issue? It's easier and cheaper to just say "no".

Likely, if the U's already been given the OK for alcohol, the city and the U have reached some sort of agreement on security and enforcement on the U lots, with the U taking the financial and liability responsibilities. The U’s lots do fall under the City’s ordinances. Both they and the private owners in the area will have the same hurdles to overcome--the U has more resources and influence.
 

highwayman said:
"The U’s lots don’t fall under the City’s ordinances." ??? Of course they do. The city council will have to rule (or has ruled) on any decisions involving alcohol in the U's outdoor lots and issue(d) permits. I have a feeling that what will transpire is similar to outdoor festivals, where the alcohol cannot leave the lots or may have to be cordoned off.

The city's biggest issue with lots is likely underage drinking. It is difficult to control on private property (even though the city of Minneapolis would love to trample on such personal rights/responsibility issues every day--that's another story for another time), but easy to control on city streets and sidewalks. However, how much police manpower do they want to waste on such a "politically important" issue? It's easier and cheaper to just say "no".

Likely, if the U's already been given the OK for alcohol, the city and the U have reached some sort of agreement on security and enforcement on the U lots, with the U taking the financial and liability responsibilities. The U’s lots do fall under the City’s ordinances. Both they and the private owners in the area will have the same hurdles to overcome--the U has more resources and influence.
Click to expand...

I'll gladly admit I could be wrong here. When on the tour the answers Phil Esten (Asst AD in charge of TCF) gave me clearly indicated that the U surface lots would have tailgating. This was during the same part of the conversation where he said he didn't think the City would be allowing ordinance changes to allow private lots to host tailgating. I assumed this to mean that the U made the decisions on its own lots. If that is not the case then I suspect you're correct and that "the city and the U have reached some sort of agreement on security and enforcement on the U lots, with the U taking the financial and liability responsibilities."

I went to a private college so I think I have a tendency to overestimate the power of a state university over its own property based on my own experiences.
 

I'm no expert, but...

...I am pretty good at reading statutes and ordinances. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

It does say in the Mpls city ord 319.20 that all commerical (pay lots) have to be licensed, and therefore fall under basically all restrictions therein.

However, it is really strange that I also found this:

"364.40. Consuming in public. No person shall consume intoxicating liquor as defined by Minnesota Statutes, Section 340A.101, Subdivision 14, or nonintoxicating malt liquor as defined by Minnesota Statutes, Section 340A.101, Subdivision 19, while (1) on a public street, highway, alley, sidewalk, boulevard, or any place frequented by the public; (2) on any private property without the consent of the owner of such property;..."

Maybe the city is blowing smoke?!? What a shock that would be.:eek: Consent of the owner seems pretty solid. It's not like the owner here is selling alcohol and it is a liquor license issue. That's another matter.

There is no other mention of alcohol and parking lots outside of ordinances regulating lots adjacent to licensed liquor establishments. The ordinances are strangely silent. They do talk about insurance and security, although the security angle in 319.225 covers "chronic problems or complaints with loitering, disorderly behavior, consumption of beverage alcohol...", etc. Maybe some else with a real law degree can look at http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=11490&sid=23

It might be that the city is simply trying to intimidate lot owners into giving the city a piece of the action. Sounds like the mob, don't it.:cool:
 

highwayman said:
...I am pretty good at reading statutes and ordinances. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

It does say in the Mpls city ord 319.20 that all commerical (pay lots) have to be licensed, and therefore fall under basically all restrictions therein.
Click to expand...

This is where I wonder if the U has a little more power. Are their lots considered “commercial”? Lol…this is why a career in law never interested me. Interpreting statues, ordinances, etc…not my cup of tea! :)

highwayman said:
However, it is really strange that I also found this:

"364.40. Consuming in public. No person shall consume intoxicating liquor as defined by Minnesota Statutes, Section 340A.101, Subdivision 14, or nonintoxicating malt liquor as defined by Minnesota Statutes, Section 340A.101, Subdivision 19, while (1) on a public street, highway, alley, sidewalk, boulevard, or any place frequented by the public; (2) on any private property without the consent of the owner of such property;..."
Click to expand...

I also found it odd when Phil told me the city could regulate what private lots could do. Something tells me enterprising lot owners near TCF will be more than willing to push the limits of any ordinances in order to pull in the extra $$$ that are available.
 

The East Bank Flats is the answer to everyone's tailgating.
1. Grass that isn't manicured which cars can drive on.
2. Sort of unique being on the river.
3. On campus. (regardless if the park board has control of it)
4. Short distance to the stadium.

Get er done Maturi.....you don't have much land to begin with....don't flush this gem down the toilet.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
The East Bank Flats is the answer to everyone's tailgating.
1. Grass that isn't manicured which cars can drive on.
2. Sort of unique being on the river.
3. On campus. (regardless if the park board has control of it)
4. Short distance to the stadium.

Get er done Maturi.....you don't have much land to begin with....don't flush this gem down the toilet.
Click to expand...

From what the Minneapolis residents on the board have said I don't think you can underplay the fact that this is City Parks land. The City Park Board is apparently notorious for being difficult. Something tells me that as the U picks their battles coming into year 1 of TCF they are staying far away from the Parks Board.

That said, I would LOVE it if they managed to work something out. I'd gladly tailgate there!
 

GoGophers2005 said:
The East Bank Flats is the answer to everyone's tailgating.
1. Grass that isn't manicured which cars can drive on.
2. Sort of unique being on the river.
3. On campus. (regardless if the park board has control of it)
4. Short distance to the stadium.

Get er done Maturi.....you don't have much land to begin with....don't flush this gem down the toilet.
Click to expand...

This won't happen. The Park Board owns that land, so unless the U gets permission to start parking cars on the grass it's not a viable location. Vehicles would destroy the grass that is there if it rained a little anyway.
It is not on campus, it is adjacent to campus, the river road is the border for campus. Also, Park Board rules state that only 3.2 beer in cans is allowed in any park and the park police love ticketing people for unlawful booze. I used to work for the MPRB and, while they have a good relationship with the U (ie. Rowing Boathouse collaboration) I seriously doubt they would let cars park on the grass.
 

Park on the grass a problem? Amazing that Michigan allows for parking on their GOLF COURSE right outside the stadium. Minneapolis Park Board is worried about the quality of their grass is a joke.....our parks are infested with billions and billions of dandelions every year. Driving on the parkway its almost disgusting how bad the grass is. Who cares how nice the grass is in a flood plain. I would be amazed if we could find one blade of bluegrass or whatever is native to Minnesota on that flood plain...I bet the majority of green you see is a weed.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
Park on the grass a problem? Amazing that Michigan allows for parking on their GOLF COURSE right outside the stadium. Minneapolis Park Board is worried about the quality of their grass is a joke.....our parks are infested with billions and billions of dandelions every year. Driving on the parkway its almost disgusting how bad the grass is. Who cares how nice the grass is in a flood plain. I would be amazed if we could find one blade of bluegrass or whatever is native to Minnesota on that flood plain...I bet the majority of green you see is a weed.
Click to expand...

While I agree that grass on the floodplain is the last grass I'd be worried about you have to keep in mind that we're talking about a City Board here. It's not really applicable to compare their decisions/process to those of the University of Michigan owned golf course. The fact that the GC is University owned says it all...they have a vested interest in making it available to tailgating. It makes them money! What benefit does the Park Board see? They accept the liability and cost for something that benefits the University.
 

Some evidence that the U probably does control their own lots

I was doing some Google searching related to the U of Mich golf course and found an '04 article in the The Michigan Daily that was written in response to the new (and fairly draconian) tailgating rules MSU put into place in 2004. Part of the article reads:
The Michigan Daily said:
The on-campus tailgating lots regulated by the new policy fall
under the jurisdiction of Michigan State’s Department of
Police and Public Safety. Public safety departments at both
Michigan State and the University of Michigan generally have
jurisdiction only over university-owned property, and Brown said
most students do not tailgate on University of Michigan
property.

“We have a little different situation in that our
geography is different. Some schools — and I believe MSU
would fit into this category — have significantly-sized
parking lots in proximity to (the stadium), and that’s what
gets used for tailgating,” Brown said.
Click to expand...
(See here for full article: http://www.michigandaily.com/content/dps-wont-follow-michigan-states-rules-tailgating)

I suspect this is true for the U as well and that the U does control the drinking/tailgating rules on campus lots/property, not the City of Minneapolis.
 

If you believe this City Pages blurb from 2/18/09

then you can get that the City of Minneapolis will be a pain in the a$$ to deal with if the University needs their approval to allow drinking in University lots.

http://www.citypages.com/2009-02-18/news/minneapolis-city-council-taking-the-happy-out-of-happy-hours/

The Minneapolis City Council is currently exploring new regulations that would take all the fun and affordability out of drinking in public. Could Minnesota drinking become any more lame than it already is? Apparently Minneapolis is trying to make it so.

City Council members are discussing options to ban happy hour and other drinking specials at bars to help prevent binge drinking. They are also looking at ways to ban drinking games in bars (think beer pong and flip cup). Because, you know, young people can't play those games at home if they are so inclined.

Minneapolis is forming a task force to take a closer look at the recommendations on limiting drinking in bars to decide if the regulations should be considered by the City Council.

These recommendations are ridiculous. Businesses should be allowed to price their drinks how they choose. Particularly in a tough economy, bars have to find creative ways to get customers into their establishments. —Emily Kaiser

What if they ban flip cup? Heads will roll!

FlipCup_diagram_web.jpg
 

Only in Minnesota would they make something like tailgating such big deal. There are two concerns here, alcohol and fires.

-Pick a couple of lots and make them family friendly lots, no alcohol.
-Allow alcohol in all other lots but no kegs.
-Only allow grilling in uncovered (surface) lots.

There. Problem solved. Am I oversimplifying this?
 

SteveDave has it...

stevedave23 said:
Only in Minnesota would they make something like tailgating such big deal. There are two concerns here, alcohol and fires.

-Pick a couple of lots and make them family friendly lots, no alcohol.
-Allow alcohol in all other lots but no kegs.
-Only allow grilling in uncovered (surface) lots.

There. Problem solved. Am I oversimplifying this?
Click to expand...

I agree. But this is the land of "No Fun Allowed" and "You Need Treatment". However, if the stadium was located in ANY other city in the state, or any other state (other than maybe Mass. or Vermont) none of this would be an issue.
 

highwayman said:
I agree. But this is the land of "No Fun Allowed" and "You Need Treatment". However, if the stadium was located in ANY other city in the state, or any other state (other than maybe Mass. or Vermont) none of this would be an issue.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree. If the U was in a smaller "college town" vs. a big urban area I can see a much different dynamic. The cities and police of Madison, Bloomington, etc all give much more leeway to "gameday behavior" IMO then it seems like Minneapolis is prepared to.
 

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