Brewster recruiting

Much has been said about Brewster's recruiting. I'd be curious as to how many didn't make it academically both here and Texas. At the same time how many of these were cut loose because of their character.

I would think the guys would great character would prefer to mingle with the guys like them as opposed to guys who don't cut the mustard in some way.

I think that has been talked about before and if I remember correctly his retention of highly ranked players has been very poor. He was able to recruit them but for various reasons grade wise or other ... they have not stayed in school. Folks who are more knowledgeable than I can give you a better rundown of who they are.

nm

Here we go again! LOL.

50PoundHead said:

Here we go again! LOL.

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No S@#! HE'S FIRED! WHO CARES?

Point being ...

Point being ... how many of Brewster's recruits are still on the team compared to how many scholarship players started with MN. That point is relevant to the condition of the present team.

No it's not, because those players no longer play for us. So it makes no point to talk about them.

Damn the off-season sucks...

MNSpaniel said:

Point being ... how many of Brewster's recruits are still on the team compared to how many scholarship players started with MN. That point is relevant to the condition of the present team.

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I find it funny how the mere mention of Brewster brings out the "It's over, move on" crowd. As though the history of this program can never be discussed, unless you are discussing the history of this program from 50 years ago. But last year's history, forget about it; it did not happen; Brewster wasn't even our coach. I just can't get over how people just cannot talk about the Brewster era. It was just last season for crying out loud, it is relevant for this season. If you don't want to talk about Brewster, don't enter the thread. My rant is over. Thank you.

Yes it DOES matter...

Coach Kill won't really have to take the fall or the responsibility for any negative things for at least the first 3.5 seasons if we use the same criteria some people TRIED to use to make excuses for that brewster character. The brewball apologists were really nasty about that sort of thing...and would always fall back on that pathetic excuse for brewster, bjm and prexy b. for putting the program into such a horrible place.

So, people: what do we do? Do we blame everything that goes badly or does not work well on brewster? Or, are some of you still into trying to blame the coach before brewster for every single loss the program suffers? You people know who you were that did that ALL the time...

The bottom line, people, is that in my opinion, the day a coach takes over the program EVERYTHING...good/bad/indifferent that happens in that program is the responsibility of the CURRENT Coach. It is up to the current coach in his first year to put ALL the players he has into the best schemes, positions and game plans to win as many games as is possible...including Big Ten games. When Mason was here, that was always all HIS responsibility. When brewster was here it was always ALL his responsibility. And now that Coach Kill is here, it will always ALL be HIS responsibility.

It was SO pathetic reading all the excuses some of you tried to make for that brewster character. Well, it didn't work. But, some of you still tried to do it...and most likely some still will try to do that. It still doesn't fly. In my opinion, brewster can not be blamed for any problems Coach Kill may have this first year. Coach Kill has an opportunity to assess the stiuation, do some masterful coaching, utilize the great coaches he has brought with him and work with these kids. He can instill some discipline, change up a few things here and there and before you know it, this entire program will have his personality, look and character. What a GREAT thing change CAN be sometimes. Coach Kill took this job and when he bought the job he bought EVERYTHING about the job...sight unseen, as is...and none of it is "returnable" or refundable... ; 0 ) He and his staff will make this program THEIR program.

Coach Kill has taken on the responsibility for the Golden Gopher Football Program. I am sure he wouldn't want it any other way. That's really good because that is the ONLY way it can be.

So, as far as I am concerned: this is Coach Kill's Team starting from Day ONE! He is a coach and he will put his players into the best possible situations to allow them to win Big Ten Football games...and any games they play. And, it looks to me as though Coach Kill is NOT a whiner and I don't think he would take too kindly to having anyone trying make any excuses for him or his program. What a wonderfully refreshing attitude THAT will be...after the last four years.

We KNOW this program has a LONG ways to go...a LOT of work to do...and it will need some good fortune in terms of injuries, academics, learning schemes, technique, etc. But THAT's ok. The Program basically needs to start all over. In a way, it really is pretty exciting. It is going to be tough goine. We will ALL need to be patient. But, I think Coach Kill has been preparing for this season the entire time he has been coaching. I think the same is true for his staff. Good luck...best wishes...give 'em hell Coach Kill! Go Gophers!

Another Example of a Simple but Extreme Viewpoint

In appears that in Wayne's World everything is black and white.

He says the coach is responsible for everything. If by this he means that the coach has overall responsibility for the program I agree with him, but if he is saying that the coach should and can control everything that goes on in the program, that is just plan ludicrous. Life isn’t that simple nor is it black and white. Wayne seems to realize this when it comes to Mason or Weber but not when it come to those things or people he disagrees with.

GO4INLALALAND said:

I find it funny how the mere mention of Brewster brings out the "It's over, move on" crowd. As though the history of this program can never be discussed, unless you are discussing the history of this program from 50 years ago. But last year's history, forget about it; it did not happen; Brewster wasn't even our coach. I just can't get over how people just cannot talk about the Brewster era. It was just last season for crying out loud, it is relevant for this season. If you don't want to talk about Brewster, don't enter the thread. My rant is over. Thank you.

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I think the point some are trying to make is that this stuff has been discussed over and over and over already.

The only player I can remember who left due to academics during Brewster's tenure was Tremaine Brock. We lost Brandon Smith due to a family situation and had a few JUCOs never get passed U admissions. I don't get this bizarre need to try to claim Brewster brought in a bunch of bad character guys when the facts just don't back that up. Blast the guy for changing offenses, blast him for not playing for OT against Northwestern in year 2, blast him for having his team unprepared to play FCS teams...there's plenty that's legitimate to criticize.

touchy bunch of folks here

Wow ... if you don't want to read or comment about a subject go to another. Brewster was just fired last year. So that means there are probably three years worth of his recruits on this team. The question was ... how many of his original recruits are still with the team. I'm interested in knowing and maybe someone else is too.

I don't mean to put all this pressure on one man, but I think that by January of 2013, there's going to be a groundswell of appreciation for Brewster bringing a certain QB to MN. Either that or Kill's seat is gonna start getting a little warm.

MNSpaniel said:

Wow ... if you don't want to read or comment about a subject go to another. Brewster was just fired last year. So that means there are probably three years worth of his recruits on this team. The question was ... how many of his original recruits are still with the team. I'm interested in knowing and maybe someone else is too.

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Agreed. And many threads on this board veer off on some silly pissing contest within a page or two, so if you're a little late to the party you wouldn't be able to participate in the original topic anyway. Kind of like this one.

Texas-Gopher said:

Agreed. And many threads on this board veer off on some silly pissing contest within a page or two, so if you're a little late to the party you wouldn't be able to participate in the original topic anyway. Kind of like this one.

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Must be a paint by numbers guy.

Texas-Gopher said:

Agreed. And many threads on this board veer off on some silly pissing contest within a page or two, so if you're a little late to the party you wouldn't be able to participate in the original topic anyway. Kind of like this one.

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With apologies to the original poster, this isn't that original a topic. It would be hard to mine all the threads that have been devoted to this over the past couple of years and the comparison of the attrition rates under Brewster and Mason.

The easiest way to glean this information is to do it one's self. Go to Rivals (the free site) and you can see all of Brewster's commits and then determine how many of them finished their tenure and how many did not.

EG#9, it's also important to count those who committed and didn't attend because of academic deficiencies (I'm thinking Tim McGee and a couple of others) and those we lost due to shenanigans (i.e Whaley, Maresh).

Whoa! I had only make the comment originally due to the fact that people were constantly comparing Kill's recruiting style to Brewster's. Also stating that Kill didn't have the skills that Brewster does. I was attempting to point out that it appears that Brewster's (I was a supporter of him) picks didn't always pan out which is why other colleges stayed alway from them due to academics and or character issues.

Kill's recruiting style suites me better. If you want to come to Minnesota we want you, if you're willing to work hard we'll help you become a solid football player and citizen and a get a good job here in Minnesota should a football career not pan out.

The Walrus says that "the day a coach takes over the program EVERYTHING...good/bad/indifferent that happens in that program is the responsibility of the CURRENT Coach."

But, it's fair to point out that a new coach is inheriting the previous coach's players. That mean if there were recruiting mistakes, or deficiencies under a previous coach, the new coach is going to have to deal with that.

I get the sense that the original poster was getting at this point - that for all his alleged prowess as a recruiter, Brewster had his share of failures, academic and legal casualties, leaving Kill to inherit a roster that he has himself criticized as lacking in key areas.

Yes, the new coach is now responsible for the future of the program - but the new coach is forced to deal with the legacy of the previous coach in terms of personnel. In order to truly assess a coach, I think you need to see him operate with his "own" players - and that doesn't start to happen until his 3rd or 4th year - unless he brings in a butt-load of Jucos, or plays a lot of true freshmen right off the bat.

It obviously matters.

I think a lot of us are hoping that Coach Kill recruits in a manner that will limit the amount of attrition to a normal/understandable level. For whatever reason, that wasn't the case with the Brew years.

Signing a guy and not getting him into school (or having him leave within the first couple of seasons) is much worse than signing a kid who isn't quite as coveted.

I'm not saying it's entirely the case with Kill but it could certainly mean that we don't go after some of the riskier prospects that Brew seemed to build a large portion of his recruiting classes on. I'm not bashing Brew because he does have 1 realy good class and had other disadvantages when he took over.

However, when looking at Brew's style and seeing where he went wrong it might give us a little perspective into Kill's style. So it's not obsolete because he isn't our coach anymore.

I will say this, without looking at any specific numbers....the u of m seems to have an issue keeping kids playing the sport they come to play in every sport. This includes basketball men's
And womens (thinking about losing broback), and goes back further than Brewster (thinking gary russel).....to me it seems like a departmental problem that needs to be addressed.

Rosemountian said:

I will say this, without looking at any specific numbers....the u of m seems to have an issue keeping kids playing the sport they come to play in every sport. This includes basketball men's
And womens (thinking about losing broback), and goes back further than Brewster (thinking gary russel).....to me it seems like a departmental problem that needs to be addressed.

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You are correct, Mason was no prize at keeping kids in school. They took chances with kids like Russell who never went to class, and either did not monitor them, or did not have punishment severe enough to change their mind. My impression is that Mason tried to treat his players as adults, and a bunch just were not ready for the responsibility. A lot of 18 year olds are not ready, athletes or not, if you want high retention, taking extra steps to ensure kids are really following rules is required for a lot of kids.

I agree with Rosemountian and corcoran1. This university has had a terrible time over the past couple of decades of keeping kids here for all four years of eligibility (maybe it happens elsewhere as well and it just seems high because this is the university sports program we all follow).

Kill seems to want to reverse that and appears to be recruiting with that in mind. Different sport, but Tubby's problem doesn't appear to be related as much to academics as it does other off-court issues.

Some of the students who are admitted to the University...

are NEVER going to graduate from the University. This is pretty much true across the board. The largest problem always used to be in the second or third year...about the time when a major must be in place. Certain GPA's need to be maintained in order to be accepted into the various field of study. Many times, if a student doesn't make it at the U, it happens between the 2nd and third academic year.

Some students are probably not going to make it at the University. Do you want to not take a chance on students that "on paper" probably will never be able advance enough academically to be accepted into a specific major area or concentration in a degree granting program? Or, should any student be allowed to have the opportunity to beat the odds and succeed Or...to fail? We are NOT just talking athletes here. We are talking young students...men and women...not all students are prepared adequately. It is possible that some students will find a way to beat any disadvantages they may have had in their backgrounds or if their high schools were not sufficiently preparing them. Many young students DO succeed in spite of any and every challenge...but some do not succeed.

So, you folks be the judge, jury and the "experts..." Do you actively attempt to recruit only student athletes who are adequately prepared "on paper" with the history of excellent grades, strong college entrance exams and a long history of learning the basics of "reading, writing and 'rithmatic...taught to the tune of a hickory stick..."

Also, in your best judgements: should the coaches and assistant coaches move into the dorms, become roommates of the student athletes and monitor every waking and sleeping moment of these student athletes? Should the professors and TA's in the History department, English department, Biology department and Physics department all do the same with all the students who are majoring in their various departments?

How far do you folks want to take this? Are you willing to try to take away the ability of the student athlete competing on the football team to FAIL? If you want to take that risk away, wouldn't you also be taking away the chance for that "at risk" student athlete to SUCCEED?????

You can NOT make a student do everything that student needs to do to succeed in the classroom, to make satisfactory progress towards a degree and to be admitted into a degree-granting program. And I am talking across the board at the University of Minnesota...or any other Big Ten University.

I believe that it is possible to recruit students who may have the background and may have been EDUCATED enough in high school to have developed some of the academic skills, attitudes, the work ethic, the desire and the self-confidence to fight for, strive for and succeed in making satisfactory progress in the academic arena. But, unless those students are at least 3 *** fantasy recruits...do YOU want them? Do those kids still have a chance to be as good team players? Can they rise to the occasion...be disciplined...work hard...play with great heart? Do those characteristics matter to you...or do your interests ONLY lie in the STARS? If you recruit that type of better prepared student(on paper, anyway...), some of the fantasy high school recruiting "measurables" may not be bestowed quite as generously as some of of the real fantasy high school football recruiting junkies may like. Perhaps the "buzz factor" won't be as exciting. You can't have it all ways people. High risk may provide high reward for a year or two. Every once in a great while, you may pull off an upset in some "big" stadium as a result of a "high risk" situation paying off. Sometimes, probably much more often than not, that "high Risk" may merely fade away with no "high reward" payoff for the Universtiy...the football program...the student Or the student athlete.. But, at least that young person had the chance to succeed OR fail. The OPPORTUNITY is a priceless experience in life...regardless of the outcome, sometimes having an opportunity is a priceless experience.

It's a real numbers game IF you don't pay attention to the probability levels of individuals being prepared enough to succeed academically long enough to be with your program for four or five seasons.You folks can each decide just what you think the best strategy is. I know what I think...but...I'm not saying... ; 0 )

Why not?

From imthewalrus:

It's a real numbers game IF you don't pay attention to the probability levels of individuals being prepared enough to succeed academically long enough to be with your program for four or five seasons.You folks can each decide just what you think the best strategy is. I know what I think...but...I'm not saying... ; 0 )

...your secrecy is killing us!

all you need to know about Brewster's recruting is listen to the new HC repeatedly say that the team lacks depth, speed and athleticism. Brewster not quite recruiting at this so called high level as many want to believe.

scools12 said:

all you need to know about Brewster's recruting is listen to the new HC repeatedly say that the team lacks depth, speed and athleticism

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And he clearly has no vested interest in making the team appear worse than it is and thus lowering expectations.

A new song and dance man

Yes. We have a new type of all-buzz and no substance being uttered around here.

We keep hearing about how little ability Brewster's have athletically. But, most of these kids were evaluated for everything from how quick they are off the block to their footwork technique by professionals. Yet, Kill and company are said to be better judges of talent because... wait for it... they have coached at SIU and NIU successfully. Reminds me of the blind men who were asked to describe the elephant in the room... The rating services use measurable attributes to evaluate talent and their technique is fairly robust, reliable and valid.

Minnesota has talent on the team. Even undeniable 4 star talent, which for some reason is being low balled as being without talent. MG has talent. Edwards was blasted for not having talent for some reason on this board and he has yet to play a game. Olsen will start for likely 3 years and he has yet to start a game to be fully appreciated. Carpenter, well, it is uncertain why he has been on the sidelines for most of his games. He has been a mystery. But, this is his last season and we should wait and see what happens with him.

People were saying before Kill was hired that the team had talent in depth for the first time in years and Kill walks in and suddenly we are without talent because he says so.

I know why we lost the NIU game last year. Simple, players were out of position by the calls being made on the sideline and we got burned as a result. Kill didn't as much win that game as the Minnesota coaches failed to recognize how to defend against Kill. We have the players to be good. We had the S&C to be good. We lacked game management. We are being brainwashed into thinking that this is a very major rebuilding year to build Kills reputation later on.

Does anybody know?

NewEngland_Gold said:

From imthewalrus:

It's a real numbers game IF you don't pay attention to the probability levels of individuals being prepared enough to succeed academically long enough to be with your program for four or five seasons.You folks can each decide just what you think the best strategy is. I know what I think...but...I'm not saying... ; 0 )

...your secrecy is killing us!

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I can't stand the secrecy either. Please tell us!

Why all this secrecy?

Mustang Mountain Man said:

Minnesota has talent on the team. Even undeniable 4 star talent, which for some reason is being low balled as being without talent. MG has talent. Edwards was blasted for not having talent for some reason on this board and he has yet to play a game. Olsen will start for likely 3 years and he has yet to start a game to be fully appreciated. Carpenter, well, it is uncertain why he has been on the sidelines for most of his games. He has been a mystery. But, this is his last season and we should wait and see what happens with him.
People were saying before Kill was hired that the team had talent in depth for the first time in years and Kill walks in and suddenly we are without talent because he says so.

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First wren has a secret but he won't tell us. Then I find out Carpenter is still here because we need to wait and see what happens to him. Even more shocking is that coach Kill is down playing this team abilities.

3M man seems to be even more shocked than I am. This is an outrage! God I wish for the good old days of Brewster when we knew exactly what was going on!