Request for Hodger

Let's fast forward a few years and pretend this year's tournament has 96 teams. Assuming that the automatic bids are still just one per conference, what would the "Bubble" look like and who would be your 96 teams?

Sounds like a big waste of time IMO.

NDSU would make it for sure, Art, especially if lakesbison has his way.

They had something like this up on College Gameday last weekend where they asked Lunardi the same thing. He had North Carolina and some other teams barely above .500 as his last 4 in. The guys on Gameday hated it saying it took away the special/all the hard work paying off feeling that teams have if they just let everyone in. I agree with them and hope it never goes up from 65 teams.

SaturnSweater said:

Sounds like a big waste of time IMO.

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Are you serious? He lives for this kinda stuff.

Art Vandelay said:

Let's fast forward a few years and pretend this year's tournament has 96 teams. Assuming that the automatic bids are still just one per conference, what would the "Bubble" look like and who would be your 96 teams?

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If I were the NCAA, I would worry about attendance dropping (and TV ratings dropping) for regular season games. With 64 bids, the regular season has some meaning, with 96, it doesn't. Much tougher to justify the cost of tickets at the Barn when the games don't matter.

Going to 96 would be a disaster. The tournament and the few weeks leading up to it would not be as exciting.

If they expand, i could see it going to 68, with play in games going up against the 4 #1 seeds, that would be about all I could stomach. I would rather have it go down to 48 than expand to 96, IMO...

Going to 96? I think it would take away from the run-up to Selection Sunday. As far as logistics would they have like 16 'play-in' games MON OR TUE after Selection Sunday to get to the field of 64 and play on from there?

Thanks for asking Art, but what I'm doing now keeps me busy enough.

skoalvikings said:

If I were the NCAA, I would worry about attendance dropping (and TV ratings dropping) for regular season games. With 64 bids, the regular season has some meaning, with 96, it doesn't. Much tougher to justify the cost of tickets at the Barn when the games don't matter.

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This is very true. You hope the people in charge can see the forest for the trees. Even for ESPN, this isn't a great deal. Picking up 16 games of NCAA tournament action but significantly damaging the interest in the 500 or so regular season games you televise is not a smart trade.

gopherbadgerman said:

If they expand, i could see it going to 68, with play in games going up against the 4 #1 seeds, that would be about all I could stomach. I would rather have it go down to 48 than expand to 96, IMO...

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I would go to 68 as well but I would make the last 8 at-large teams play the play-in games. Then the four winners will be matched up against the #4 seeds.

You're on the bubble and think you should be in, then prove it.

96 teams wouldn't technically eliminate the "dramatics" of Selection Sunday, the issue is it would apply those dramatics to sucky teams, instead of teams who have at least had something you can call a "successful" season in beating more teams than they lost to. Move that to 96, and suddenly you're looking at .500 teams and you have a joke on your hands IMO. North Carolina shouldn't even be remotely considered for anything this season, yet, they'd be in the mix for a tourney berth even with a 5-11 conference mark. C'mon now.

Would the NIT cease to exist if they did this?

GophersInIowa said:

I would go to 68 as well but I would make the last 8 at-large teams play the play-in games. Then the four winners will be matched up against the #4 seeds.

You're on the bubble and think you should be in, then prove it.

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If anything happens this will probably be it. 4 play-in games on Tuesday with the winners advancing to the 12 seed, rather then playing-in the 16 seeds. I don't have a huge issue with this, other then that it makes bracket-pools more complicated (do you make them due by Tuesday, where no one will get them done, or just not do them until after Tuesday etc.) That is the life-blood of the popularity of March Madness afterall.

Are you kidding? With 96 teams, UNC would be safely in.

The teams competing for those coveted 19 and 20 seeds would be the likes of Ill St. (22-10), BC (15-15), Portland (21-12), Alabama (16-14), S Carolina (15-15), Northeastern (20-12), Wright St. (20-12) and NC St. (17-14).

Northwestern, Colorado, Oklahoma and Georgia might still be left out! (Better make it 128 teams to be sure.)

The most competitive first round match-ups, between 16 and 17 seeds might include Marshall vs. VCU or Cincy vs. Nevada.

"They" have been wanting to eliminate the NIT for a long time, this is their chance.

96 team Tournament

Whether we like it or not NCAA seems to be headed for a 96 team tournament.

The way the NCAA looks at it: Which way will they make more $$$

... with a 65 team NCAA Tourney coupled with a 32 team NIT Tourney

... or with a 96 team NCAA tourney?

I would guess the 96 team NCAA makes more $$$.

We may think it will dilute the product. I believe I thought that when ML Baseball went from the winner of the 8 team National League vs the winner of the 8 team American League to play in the World Series. A lot more money in Baseball now.

NCAA has an opt out of their Billion Dollar TV Contract in August 2010. I believe they see this as an opportunity to make more money with a more lucrative TV contract? (Also, a few more coaches - and AD's removed from the hot seat.)

A 96 team tournament seems to be unavoidable - the question is how to avoid (if possible) making the regular season more meaningless and how to possibly improve the seeding ---

How about this --- start with the 96 team field

32 teams are given a first round BYE.

32 TUE-WED "Play-in" Games after Selection Sunday to get to the remaining 32 teams to get to the 'final 64' team field.

How to determine the 32 team first round BYE:

Take the 31 Automatic (Conference) Bids

Give an Automatic Bid to 31 REGULAR SEASON Conference Champions (31 teams of 96 team field)

ALSO give an Automatic bid to Conference Tournament Champions (anywhere from 0 to 31 teams added to the 31 Regular Season champs to the 96 team field)

(NOT sure what history shows but if half the regular season champs also won the Conf Tournament Champship that would mean 46 teams with Automatic Bids --- 31 teams who win Regular Season Plus 15 teams who did not win their regular season but won their Conference Tourney - leaving 50 at Large bids)

IF a team wins their Regular Season Championship AND ALSO Wins their Conference Tournament they are given an AUTOMATIC BYE as one of the 32 first round byes into the field of 64. (If half WON both regular season and Tourney champs there would be 16 (about) Automatic 1st Round Byes.

The balance of the 32 first round BYEs would be determined by seeding.

Only teams with a PLUS .500 regular season conference record would be eligible to be one of the 32 teams with a first round bye.

The balance of the 64 teams are seeded as now.

vaporboy said:

Are you kidding? With 96 teams, UNC would be safely in.

The teams competing for those coveted 19 and 20 seeds would be the likes of Ill St. (22-10), BC (15-15), Portland (21-12), Alabama (16-14), S Carolina (15-15), Northeastern (20-12), Wright St. (20-12) and NC St. (17-14).

Northwestern, Colorado, Oklahoma and Georgia might still be left out! (Better make it 128 teams to be sure.)

The most competitive first round match-ups, between 16 and 17 seeds might include Marshall vs. VCU or Cincy vs. Nevada.

"They" have been wanting to eliminate the NIT for a long time, this is their chance.

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I heard either Seth Davis or Andy Katz (sorry they sound the same) on the radio the other day and they felt that this season has hit the NCAA with a bit of reality that 96 teams is not a good idea. Also, that they may never have been willing to go that far, but by floating that big of an expansion they would encounter less resistance if they expand just to 68 as is the most likely scenerio. We can only hope.

rrjackIII said:

Whether we like it or not NCAA seems to be headed for a 96 team tournament.

The way the NCAA looks at it: Which way will they make more $$$

... with a 65 team NCAA Tourney coupled with a 32 team NIT Tourney

... or with a 96 team NCAA tourney?

I would guess the 96 team NCAA makes more $$$.

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Purely looked at as $ gained from the NCAA tournament, you're right. But there is no stand-alone 'NCAA' just as there is no 'The Media'. The NCAA is just each school ulitimately pursuing what is the best interest of its members. If enough Presidents/AD's properly see how this will damage the value of thier regular season TV contracts and thier gate reciepts, hopefully they will do the right thing. I also don't buy that it will save a lot of coaches' jobs. Simply getting to the NCAA will become meaningless for the major-conference teams and advancing into the 'real 64' will become the new minimum standard.