Is Brewster really that bad.

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rivergopher

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I like the direction the FB program is going a lot more than I like the way the basketball program direction is going yet Brewster is blasted all the time. Tubby really hasn't done anything that Brewster has done NCAA tourney entry I would equate with two non descript bowl games. Brewster has proved that he isn't afraid to play teams in the non conference where as Tubby puts High Point, Dakotas, and directional schools from around the country and charges us for them. (For his home games, otherwise FOT will list all the teams we played in cali and Miami) I believe this team will be not better than 8th next year. We are losing 2 of our best players and replacing them with two top 150 recruits. My guess is we will have to scramble in April and May to find a over hyped JC guy when Corey Joseph goes else where. Mbkawe is 50/50 to be with the team next year, and who knows if Nolen has his academics in order. Like I said I feel a lot better of the direction that the football team is headed.
 

Do we really have to go through the whole Tubby vs. Brew debate again? It's kind of getting like the "Royce and Trevor would have helped out today" threads that popped up after every loss earlier in the year.
 

I agree that I (still, but starting to waver) like Brewster, but we haven't seen his teams play a tough non-conference schedule yet... (Cal this year was an average team in the end (8-5) and wasn't even scheduled by Brewster)
 

Sorry relatively new on here didn't know there was a lot of previous posts about this topic. Ok Cal was over hyped last year, but take a look at our next 5 years of non conference. ( I am sure you have) Putting Siena on the schedule is a step in the right direction I would like to see 2 more tourney teams, but not SF Austin and other small schools that only got in because they won there conference tournament. Siena would get in even if they lose there tourney.
 

Tubby Smith= 1 national title....Tim Brewster= 0-9 in rivalry games...not fair comparison.
 


True

PapaHawk21 said:
Tubby Smith= 1 national title....Tim Brewster= 0-9 in rivalry games...not fair comparison.
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Tubby Smith @ Minne = mediocre at best

Brester @ Minne = nearly mediocre

Not much difference, other than a few million $$ more to Coach Smith.
 

Based on Tubby Smith's history as a coach....it seems obvious that he will bring more success to Minnesota. With Tim Brewster...it is much less clear.
 

PapaHawk21 said:
Tubby Smith= 1 national title....Tim Brewster= 0-9 in rivalry games...not fair comparison.
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I'm a lot more interested in what Tubby is doing at the U of M now as opposed to what happened at Kentucky 13 years ago. True the NC gives him HOF credentials but if he can't produce today he isn't of much use to the U of M.
 

History is History

PapaHawk21 said:
Based on Tubby Smith's history as a coach....it seems obvious that he will bring more success to Minnesota. With Tim Brewster...it is much less clear.
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And today does not look very good.
 



What is the standard for you guys? The cupboard was not very full when Tubby arrived and he has improved so many players on this team. Minnesota does not have a long history of success in basketball and have been irrelevant, the scandal years notwithstanding, for quite some time. Tubby Smith is the right guy and will make the program successful over time. It amazes me that people except so much more here when there was little to start with in the first place.
 

I don't think many people are ready to pull the plug on Tubby. What is aggravating to some is that Brewster is constantly bashed in the media and treated as if he is an awful coach, while Smith gets a free pass. Brewster = mediocre results. Tubby = mediocre results. Media coverage of the two should be relatively equal as well, but it isn't even close.
 

Well, If White was playing the sentiment may be different but he clearly could not handle himself. Brewster spouts fabrications about anything as a smokes-screen to hide his apparent inability to coach. Tubby has a history of success and is a basketball icon. With time, the Gophers will be better off. And whenever you feel like things are bad, just take a look to the south (Todd Lickliter) and remember how much better off you actually are.
 

Tubby worries me because he was looking for a "less stress" job

Well he got one at Minnesota

His offense looks like garbage and his recruiting has done little

I see next year as being crap also for the gopher basketball team......we will still have no guards

also, with the brewster comparison......i will always say it is much easier to win at basketball at minnesota than football.....football has been crap for decades........basketball you need 5 players
 



From a 1.9 million bb coach, I would expect a lot more than 2 NITS and 1 one and done. Also because we were irrelevant under Monson we are not to expect more from the 9th highest paid coach in the country. As far as the cupboard being bare, look at our 3 leading scorers, none of who were Tubby recruits. Basketball is not Football if you look at successful coaches around the country by their 3rd year is the year that they make the biggest jump. I don't think it is to much to ask to be consistently in the top 4 or 5 of the conference, and make a run to the Sweet 16 every 2 or 3 years instead of just being the last stop on a supposed HOF coaches career.
 

Ron Johnson Super Fan said:
I don't think many people are ready to pull the plug on Tubby. What is aggravating to some is that Brewster is constantly bashed in the media and treated as if he is an awful coach, while Smith gets a free pass. Brewster = mediocre results. Tubby = mediocre results. Media coverage of the two should be relatively equal as well, but it isn't even close.
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Brewster is probably bashed more because of how he came into the job and what he has said to the press since. Tubby has a very different demeanor.

I think Tubby had a solid team coming into the year, sadly he has run into some issues that he can't entirely control. Losing Nolen really hurt, pg is the most important position in the college game.
 

the whole 'tubby has a better history' argument is lame. because tubby has a history of winning, has his NCs and his final fours and his twenty win seasons should be the one reason that his mediocrity nowis such a problem. tim brewster is a rookie head coach with no head coaching experience and no coordinating experience. Brewtser is in his first three years as a HC and he has achieved mediocrity and two bowl games, tubby in his first three years as minnesota head coach (coming to minnesota with almost 300 wins and 20 yeas of head coaching experience to go along with the plaudits) has one NIT berth with a loss in the first round, one tourney berth with a first round loss and who knows what now. that's mediocrity, no matter what the situation (remember, brewster didn't exactly have a full cupboard either). brewster has over achieved for a rookie head coach learning on the job, while tubby's mediocrity is a sign of underachieving.

i am still a huge tubby fan. i think he is the guy for the U of M, but stop throwing his history out there like it is a trump card that kills all criticism.
 

one thing they have in common, both of their QBs are painful to watch.

Weber's lazy throws to the flat = Devoe's lazy bouce passes to the middle of the floor.

results: a pick 6.. the other a highlight dunk.

yet Weber keeps trotting out there while everyone is hoping for Gray... Devoe brings the ball up while everyone is looking for.... Allen?
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
the whole 'tubby has a better history' argument is lame. because tubby has a history of winning, has his NCs and his final fours and his twenty win seasons should be the one reason that his mediocrity nowis such a problem. tim brewster is a rookie head coach with no head coaching experience and no coordinating experience. Brewtser is in his first three years as a HC and he has achieved mediocrity and two bowl games, tubby in his first three years as minnesota head coach (coming to minnesota with almost 300 wins and 20 yeas of head coaching experience to go along with the plaudits) has one NIT berth with a loss in the first round, one tourney berth with a first round loss and who knows what now. that's mediocrity, no matter what the situation (remember, brewster didn't exactly have a full cupboard either). brewster has over achieved for a rookie head coach learning on the job, while tubby's mediocrity is a sign of underachieving.

i am still a huge tubby fan. i think he is the guy for the U of M, but stop throwing his history out there like it is a trump card that kills all criticism.
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I think most would agree that Minnesota has been really decimated by off the court issues with White, Mbakwe and Nolen. If these three guys were playing Minnesota would probably be in a much different situation. Tubby will continue to recruit better players and despite this season being a disappointment I honestly believe the gophers have a bright future. Tim Brewster has not over achieved. Anyone in a major conference can now go to a bowl game with 6 wins and to imply that 2 Insight Bowls in 3 seasons is over achieving is simply wrong. Brewster has 1 victory over a big10 team (NU) that finished the season with a winning record in his three years. Tubby has a clear identity in mind for his basketball team, setbacks off the court have derailed this idea to a point, but Brewster has changed his approach schematically and lost multiple coordinators already because of his indecisiveness and inability to make in-game adjustments. I am confident in saying Minnesota has the right guy in Tubby and the jury is still out on Timmy B.
 

PapaHawk21 said:
I think most would agree that Minnesota has been really decimated by off the court issues with White, Mbakwe and Nolen. If these three guys were playing Minnesota would probably be in a much different situation. Tubby will continue to recruit better players and despite this season being a disappointment I honestly believe the gophers have a bright future. Tim Brewster has not over achieved. Anyone in a major conference can now go to a bowl game with 6 wins and to imply that 2 Insight Bowls in 3 seasons is over achieving is simply wrong. Brewster has 1 victory over a big10 team (NU) that finished the season with a winning record in his three years. Tubby has a clear identity in mind for his basketball team, setbacks off the court have derailed this idea to a point, but Brewster has changed his approach schematically and lost multiple coordinators already because of his indecisiveness and inability to make in-game adjustments. I am confident in saying Minnesota has the right guy in Tubby and the jury is still out on Timmy B.
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but they're not playing. Tubby should be held to a higher standard than Brew. I am not calling for his head by any means, and am glad he is here. But the constant defending of the guy gets a little tired, IMO. He is paid for results. I am happy to chalk this up to a bad year, but if next year is similar, then time to re-evaluate.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
but they're not playing. Tubby should be held to a higher standard than Brew. I am not calling for his head by any means, and am glad he is here. But the constant defending of the guy gets a little tired, IMO. He is paid for results. I am happy to chalk this up to a bad year, but if next year is similar, then time to re-evaluate.
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In all seriousness, what is your standard for Tubby Smith? Remember, Minnesota basketball has been thrust into the national spot light because of him.
 

PapaHawk21 said:
In all seriousness, what is your standard for Tubby Smith? Remember, Minnesota basketball has been thrust into the national spot light because of him.
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on the court - top half of the B10 and NCAA Tournament wins.

For a coach of his stature and his income, I think that is fair. Do you disagree?
 

Yeah, I agree with your assessment. However, with a program like Minnesota, it takes time. There is not doubt the team has underachieved this season but I would argue this is only partially Tubby. Nolen has to make grades, White and Mbawe have to stay out of legal trouble. The big10 is an extremely difficult conference and when you shoot yourself in the foot in a league like this it becomes very hard to recover. Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue,Wisconsin and Illinois all have been building over the last decade to become the teams they are. Minnesota can be the next team to join this group but it takes time, patience and commitment from the players and the administration. Indiana is down because of their the Sampson Violations, Iowa is down because we should not have fired Steve Alford (Our best players transfer every year because of Lickliter), Michigan has been off and on due to changes and the inability to find the right coach, and PSU/NU are perennial bottom tier big10 teams. It will take longer for Tubby to get into that top tier than most probably expected because of the above reasons. Minnesota will not get anyone better than Tubby Smith to come coach them, I feel like I can say that with nearly 100% confidence. Patience my friend.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
on the court - top half of the B10 and NCAA Tournament wins.

For a coach of his stature and his income, I think that is fair. Do you disagree?
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My expectations are a repeat of what we had with Clem with even some improvement. NCAA's 70% of the time. Sweet 16 30% of the time. A Final Four at some point or at least an awfully close attempt.

Through 2 seasons, expectations were in line. Much more was expected out of this season that has run completely off the rails. It is a disappointment. But those wanting to run Tubby out of town are impatient, irrational morons. He had a very talented Sweet 16 caliber team 4 months ago that everyone was very excited about. Now, after one tough season, aw screw it, let's fire him? Give me a break. Even if that were remotely logical, who exactly would you expect to hire in his place? Flip? Give me another break.

As for Brewster versus Tubby, this is a silly debate. First the arguement that Tubby's not facing heat is becoming less true by the day. Until about a month ago, he didn't deserve a lot of heat. As the losses mount, he's facing more. He's hardly being coddled. No, the fans and media aren't going to go postal like they would in Lexington. That doesn't mean he's getting some free pass.

As for Brewster, do you think if we had hired Steve Spurier and he's put up the exact same results that he'd face the ridicule Brewster does? No. Would it be because of some conspiracy? No. It would be because he's got a proven Hall-of-Fame resume and deserves the benefit of the doubt. It would also be because he wouldn't have come in spewing BS and false expectations. And when the team lost because of poor play or effort, he'd sure as heck call them out for doing so. Both of the above sentences apply to Tubby. Neither apply to Brewster. It's not hard to figure out. Brew can't control #1. He could have controlled #2. He's chosen not to.
 

Excuses Papa

PapaHawk21 said:
Yeah, I agree with your assessment. However, with a program like Minnesota, it takes time. There is not doubt the team has underachieved this season but I would argue this is only partially Tubby. Nolen has to make grades, White and Mbawe have to stay out of legal trouble. The big10 is an extremely difficult conference and when you shoot yourself in the foot in a league like this it becomes very hard to recover. Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue,Wisconsin and Illinois all have been building over the last decade to become the teams they are. Minnesota can be the next team to join this group but it takes time, patience and commitment from the players and the administration. Indiana is down because of their the Sampson Violations, Iowa is down because we should not have fired Steve Alford (Our best players transfer every year because of Lickliter), Michigan has been off and on due to changes and the inability to find the right coach, and PSU/NU are perennial bottom tier big10 teams. It will take longer for Tubby to get into that top tier than most probably expected because of the above reasons. Minnesota will not get anyone better than Tubby Smith to come coach them, I feel like I can say that with nearly 100% confidence. Patience my friend.
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Who recruited White and Mbakwe?

Who recruited Bostick?

It is his team, and he alone is responsible for results.
 

This was a lost season. It sucks. But it happens. Tubby gets at least 2 more years to prove that he can win here. Don't forget, we were ranked #17 preseason, and deserved that ranking based on who we had coming back and coming in. The coming in's didn't pan out like we expected, and the coming back's regressed in some cases. Let's see what happens next year and the year after that and we'll see.

I for one am excited to see Paul Carter and Rodney Williams play more this year and next year. I believe those 2 guys will be leaders in scoring, rebounding, and hustle plays next year and the more they play the better we will be.
 

1. no one's arguing that tubby should be fired (at least i don't think).

2. tubby should share some of the blame for half of his recruiting class not showing up, his starting PG being academic ineligible, and for the discipline problems (all things brewster has taken major heat for--starting strong safety, though).
 

howeda7 said:
As for Brewster, do you think if we had hired Steve Spurier and he's put up the exact same results that he'd face the ridicule Brewster does? No. Would it be because of some conspiracy? No. It would be because he's got a proven Hall-of-Fame resume and deserves the benefit of the doubt. It would also be because he wouldn't have come in spewing BS and false expectations. And when the team lost because of poor play or effort, he'd sure as heck call them out for doing so. Both of the above sentences apply to Tubby. Neither apply to Brewster. It's not hard to figure out. Brew can't control #1. He could have controlled #2. He's chosen not to.
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Your point about Steve Spurrier illustrates what is getting some people upset. Evaluate results. What happened on your resume in the past doesn't matter if you can't perform now. I also wouldn't describe Brewster as "spewing BS and false expectations." His stated goals are his goals. Just because he hasn't achieved them yet doesn't mean that it isn't his ultimate goal. Lastly, I would argue that calling players out in the media is a dangerous strategy to pursue. Once your players feel betrayed by their coach its all over.
 

Ron Johnson Super Fan said:
Your point about Steve Spurrier illustrates what is getting some people upset. Evaluate results. What happened on your resume in the past doesn't matter if you can't perform now. I also wouldn't describe Brewster as "spewing BS and false expectations." His stated goals are his goals. Just because he hasn't achieved them yet doesn't mean that it isn't his ultimate goal. Lastly, I would argue that calling players out in the media is a dangerous strategy to pursue. Once your players feel betrayed by their coach its all over.
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Of course your resume matters. If Steve Spurrier was our coach, we'd give him more time because he's proven at Duke, Florida and SC that he's a winner. Yes he only one 1 NC, and his recruiting tailed off at Florida (remind you of any of our coaches?) but he's ulitimately proven over many years and multiple teams that he can get the job done. Therefore, if he hits a few bumps along the road, you don't worry too much. He's also a straight-shooter much as Tubby is and not afraid to take the blame when things to bad. Brewster's never proven a darn thing other then that he 'might' be a decent recruiter. So when he hits bumps in the road and has complete chaos on his gameday sideline, it's far more concerning because you have no proof that he knows how to fix it. And his non-stop positivity even when it sounds completely ridiculous (such as after the Iowa game) only makes it worse.

Don't tell me that in your own job if you hired two new employees and they both had rough starts you wouldn't fire the one right out of college a little quicker then someone with 10 years experience?
 

This is tubby's third recruiting class. He arrived late for the first one, the second one was decent, and the third was decimated by off court issues. He is still building depth. I think the basketball program is still in pretty good shape. They have three losses by one basket two of them in overtime. It wouldn't take much to make this team 8-4 and in contention for the big ten title. Tell me the football program is that close. Football is exponentially more difficult to turn around so the comparison is unfair.
 

howeda7 said:
Of course your resume matters. If Steve Spurrier was our coach, we'd give him more time because he's proven at Duke, Florida and SC that he's a winner. Yes he only one 1 NC, and his recruiting tailed off at Florida (remind you of any of our coaches?) but he's ulitimately proven over many years and multiple teams that he can get the job done. Therefore, if he hits a few bumps along the road, you don't worry too much. He's also a straight-shooter much as Tubby is and not afraid to take the blame when things to bad. Brewster's never proven a darn thing other then that he 'might' be a decent recruiter. So when he hits bumps in the road and has complete chaos on his gameday sideline, it's far more concerning because you have no proof that he knows how to fix it. And his non-stop positivity even when it sounds completely ridiculous (such as after the Iowa game) only makes it worse.

Don't tell me that in your own job if you hired two new employees and they both had rough starts you wouldn't fire the one right out of college a little quicker then someone with 10 years experience?
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Let me rephrase my argument in another way. Why is it that 99% (unscientific number I just made up) of the fans are willing to give Tubby more time on the job and far, far fewer are willing to give Brewster more time? They have both had similar results and neither have their programs where they want to be. Why does Tubby need more time to get things rolling then Brewster does? Brewster should be given enough time to get it done just like Tubby should.
 

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