A Little Truth About Tubby Smith

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Honyocker

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Tubby has two recruiting classes of HIS guys on this team. The Jr's and Sr's are either Monson recruits (Nolen, Hoff, Westbrook, etc.)or JC guys plugged in to fill gaps in the roster. And maybe the two most important recuits Tubby has brought to Williams Arena are sitting at the end of the bench in street clothes (Trevor and Royce).

Tubby is making a little lemonade out of lemons here. When Tubby took over for Pitino at Kentucky, he won a national championship in his first season....because the roster had talent. No such situation when Tubby took over here. He has to go get the talent, develop it and then start to win big.

And win big he will.
 

Honyocker said:
Tubby has two recruiting classes of HIS guys on this team. The Jr's and Sr's are either Monson recruits (Nolen, Hoff, Westbrook, etc.)or JC guys plugged in to fill gaps in the roster. And maybe the two most important recuits Tubby has brought to Williams Arena are sitting at the end of the bench in street clothes (Trevor and Royce).

Tubby is making a little lemonade out of lemons here. When Tubby took over for Pitino at Kentucky, he won a national championship in his first season....because the roster had talent. No such situation when Tubby took over here. He has to go get the talent, develop it and then start to win big.

And win big he will.
Click to expand...

Truth. Tubby has coached every player on this team for three years.

Truth. The best players on our team are Monson recruited players. Is that a good or bad thing? So 4 starting lemons here.

Truth. Basketball is a game you can turn around a team with 1-2 players in one season. Only RSIII and Colt 45 have consistently broke into Monson's starting lineup of lemons.

Truth. Tubby passed on adding players (or removing) before his first season. His choice.

Truth. This team that is a bunch of lemons went to the NCAA last year. Same exact team.

Truth. Royce, Mbakwe, Nolen all not playing has to fall onto the coaching staff as well as the players. This isn't a perfect storm situation. The coaching staff has made multiple bad decisions for all 3 players to be out.

Seriously. This isn't football. It really isn't a sport were it is necessity to develop every player on the roster. This is a sport were players can be good to go the day they step on the court.
 

Regardless of who recruited what player - I think all of us were expecting some offensive improvement from a guy so highly regarded as a great coach. Everyone was returning, but it is the same offense with no identity or gameplan.

Tubby has done a great job defensively but offensively from as great of a coach as people give him credit for I expect more offensive improvement from an experienced team.
 

Do you guys remember last season's offense? The offense has improved a ton this year. It's still far from great, but there certainly has been significant improvement in that area.

The unfortunate difference is that last year's team got a lot of lucky breaks at the end of games, where as this team seems to be on the opposite side of those breaks so far. Change just a couple of our close losses into wins and our season looks much different right now.

Unfortunately, the team as it stands is not positioned to get to the NCAA tournament this year. Next year, with Royce in for the whole year, along with hopefully Mbakwe and Cory Joseph, there should be a lot less chance involved in our success.
 

Anti - perfectly stated.

anticallihan said:
Truth. Tubby has coached every player on this team for three years.

Truth. The best players on our team are Monson recruited players. Is that a good or bad thing? So 4 starting lemons here.

Truth. Basketball is a game you can turn around a team with 1-2 players in one season. Only RSIII and Colt 45 have consistently broke into Monson's starting lineup of lemons.

Truth. Tubby passed on adding players (or removing) before his first season. His choice.

Truth. This team that is a bunch of lemons went to the NCAA last year. Same exact team.

Truth. Royce, Mbakwe, Nolen all not playing has to fall onto the coaching staff as well as the players. This isn't a perfect storm situation. The coaching staff has made multiple bad decisions for all 3 players to be out.

Seriously. This isn't football. It really isn't a sport were it is necessity to develop every player on the roster. This is a sport were players can be good to go the day they step on the court.
Click to expand...


Tubby chose Bostick, RS, CI.

Still, Nolen, Johnson, and Westy are the best players on the team - in the third year of tubby.


Next year, Johnson and Westy will be missed big time, imo.
 


anticallihan said:
Truth. Tubby has coached every player on this team for three years.

False.
Nolen, Hoffarber, Westbrook, Johnson = 2.5 years
Joseph, Sampson, Carter, Iverson, Bostick=1.5 years
Cobbs, Williams, Mbakwe, White = 0.5 years

Truth. The best players on our team are Monson recruited players. Is that a good or bad thing? So 4 starting lemons here.
False.
Our most experienced players are Monson recruits. Hence the point of this thread. I don't think anyone can argue that the younger talent we have some great potential.

Truth. Basketball is a game you can turn around a team with 1-2 players in one season. Only RSIII and Colt 45 have consistently broke into Monson's starting lineup of lemons.
False. With Tubby's rotation, the starting lineup doesn't mean much of anything. Also, 1 player does not make a team. See Humphries, Rickert, Grier...

Truth. Tubby passed on adding players (or removing) before his first season. His choice.
Not sure I understand your contradicting point. Your earlier point was saying the best players on our team are the ones that he inherited, you can't have it both ways. Also, see Kevin Payton and Travis Busch.

Truth. This team that is a bunch of lemons went to the NCAA last year. Same exact team.
Can't argue with that.

Truth. Royce, Mbakwe, Nolen all not playing has to fall onto the coaching staff as well as the players. This isn't a perfect storm situation. The coaching staff has made multiple bad decisions for all 3 players to be out.

Royce had offers from nearly every Big Ten school, are you saying it was a mistake to offer him? Mbakwe had no prior issues with the law, and may very well be innocent. What mistakes did they make there? Nolen not making his grades is mind boggling.

Seriously. This isn't football. It really isn't a sport were it is necessity to develop every player on the roster. This is a sport were players can be good to go the day they step on the court.
Click to expand...

This season has no doubt been a dissapointment , but there really is a lot of young talent and promise on this team. A perfect storm of off the court issues and inability to close games has this team really underachieving. A lot of blame can be on the coaching stuff for the latter, but to say there has been no progress in three years is just not true.
 

josh087 said:
Regardless of who recruited what player - I think all of us were expecting some offensive improvement from a guy so highly regarded as a great coach. Everyone was returning, but it is the same offense with no identity or gameplan.

Tubby has done a great job defensively but offensively from as great of a coach as people give him credit for I expect more offensive improvement from an experienced team.
Click to expand...

Tubby is a defensive minded coach. LISTEN to his shows and see how much he talks about DEFENSE
I think this is why Tubby will have trouble recruiting anything more than role players.

Imagine if you are a kid with great talent who truly has a shot at the NBA
( Nothing wrong with that, we all have our dreams )
Are you going to a school like UNC, Texas, Kansas, Duke where you will be given a green light
to slash, shoot, score, and showcase for the NBA scouts on TV or do you come to Minn so your
coach can teach you defense? Just like the announcers said yesterday. IT TAKES BOTH !!
Great teams have defense and offense. If a team gets by your defense and you don't have the offense to match them, game over.
Tubby is a good coach of defense, but in watching his games it shows where he is putting the emphasis of his coaching. You are right that you would expect more improvement from players who have now been taught by Tubby for 3 years. All teams have adversity. Great coaches and great teams rise above.
 

Truth. Tubby has coached every player on this team for three years.

False.
Nolen, Hoffarber, Westbrook, Johnson = 2.5 years
Joseph, Sampson, Carter, Iverson, Bostick=1.5 years
Cobbs, Williams, Mbakwe, White = 0.5 years

Ok... whatever. The point is Tubby has coached every player on this team that has seen the court for the majority of their D1 college career.

Truth. The best players on our team are Monson recruited players. Is that a good or bad thing? So 4 starting lemons here.
False.
Our most experienced players are Monson recruits. Hence the point of this thread. I don't think anyone can argue that the younger talent we have some great potential.

Oh we can definitely argue this point. If we don't bring in a point guard none of these players will be anything. If Mbakwe, Nolen, and Royce don't end up playing next year Tubby is going to really look bad. Potential to be what? All big ten 3rd team? That has yet to be seen.

Truth. Basketball is a game you can turn around a team with 1-2 players in one season. Only RSIII and Colt 45 have consistently broke into Monson's starting lineup of lemons.
False. With Tubby's rotation, the starting lineup doesn't mean much of anything. Also, 1 player does not make a team. See Humphries, Rickert, Grier...

You add one star player to this team, especially one at the PG position it makes a team. Humphries, Rickert, and Grier played with garbage. Grier took garbage to the NCAA tourney by himself. He won that Wisconsin game by himself. I will gladly give Tubby credit for raising the overall talent level of our players, but you named 3 players that are 2-3 times better than anyone on this team in terms of pure talent

Truth. Tubby passed on adding players (or removing) before his first season. His choice.
Not sure I understand your contradicting point. Your earlier point was saying the best players on our team are the ones that he inherited, you can't have it both ways. Also, see Kevin Payton and Travis Busch.
When Tubby came in he was currently a head coach in the NCAA. He could have brought one of those players here to Minnesota that he was currently recruiting or had contact with. He chose to keep Monson's latest class of Blake and Al and not add any players

Truth. This team that is a bunch of lemons went to the NCAA last year. Same exact team.
Can't argue with that.

Truth. Royce, Mbakwe, Nolen all not playing has to fall onto the coaching staff as well as the players. This isn't a perfect storm situation. The coaching staff has made multiple bad decisions for all 3 players to be out.

Royce had offers from nearly every Big Ten school, are you saying it was a mistake to offer him? Mbakwe had no prior issues with the law, and may very well be innocent. What mistakes did they make there? Nolen not making his grades is mind boggling.
The point is Royce could be not playing for someone else. Mbakwe could be not playing for someone else. Tubby hitched his cart to two very questionable recruits in terms of character because he had no other choice. And Tubby's staff clearly wasn't watching the team close enough. It was rumored at one time that up to 4 players almost didn't end up playing this current semester. I am just saying, stuff like this happens to lots of teams. All of this happening in one year points to a larger problem

Seriously. This isn't football. It really isn't a sport were it is necessity to develop every player on the roster. This is a sport were players can be good to go the day they step on the court.

This current season is beyond disappointing. It is a disaster. The expectations Tubby had for this current season were not to be a lock for the NIT, two players with high profile legal problems, and his starting PG out for academics.
 

Isnt this offense scoring the second most points in the big ten? As disjointed as it seems sometimes, Its not like we're trying to win games scoring 48 points every time out.
 



The reason they have scored as many points in the BT that they have are because of:
1) Their Defense
2) They have played in a few games that have been officiated very tightly resulting in a ton of FTs that have made their ppg misleading
 

Honyocker said:
Tubby has two recruiting classes of HIS guys on this team. The Jr's and Sr's are either Monson recruits (Nolen, Hoff, Westbrook, etc.)or JC guys plugged in to fill gaps in the roster. And maybe the two most important recuits Tubby has brought to Williams Arena are sitting at the end of the bench in street clothes (Trevor and Royce).

Tubby is making a little lemonade out of lemons here. When Tubby took over for Pitino at Kentucky, he won a national championship in his first season....because the roster had talent. No such situation when Tubby took over here. He has to go get the talent, develop it and then start to win big.

And win big he will.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the good post.

Tubby's first recruits (that are 100% his) are halfway through their sophomore years. Isn't it a little early to be jumping ship? I'm not counting Bostick and Carter because I'm never going to fault a coaching for trying to get immediate help from the JC ranks when there are so many holes to fill.

Yes, he has had Monson's recruits for going on three years now, but the problem is most of those guys are not complete players, and when you play them you're almost always going to sacrifice in some area. What counts to me is that we're seeing improvement and talent in players like Joseph and Sampson. These guys are the future of our team. If we're in this same position in year 5 then yeah I'm a little upset. But we're only 2.5 years into this thing.
 

I find it good humor that we blame the coaching staff for the three not playing. I can just hear the moaning about a year ago if Tubby doesn't recruit White, a prized Minnesota high school player, best high school player in the state. Mbakwe, yes I suppose a Minnesota coach should have shadowed him 24/7 at his JC. Nolan is only a junior, if he doesn't know how to study by now...
 

GophenGolder said:
Isnt this offense scoring the second most points in the big ten? As disjointed as it seems sometimes, Its not like we're trying to win games scoring 48 points every time out.
Click to expand...

If you are including the preseason schedule in that statistic it is self explanatory.
 



Some Truth Corrections

Tubby has averaged 24 W per season over 18 years as HC in Div I. Very few coaches average more than 24 W per season fior their career.

Somne of those players were recruited by others. Many were recruited by Tubby. His first Tulsa team had 5 leftover scholarship players. His second Georgia team had fewear than that.

His first team at Kentucky had (0) returning full-time starters but several part-time starters. No one on that team had ever averaged 10+ ppg or been named All-SEC before. Only one had ever started for a full season at Kentucky.
 

nuggett said:
Tubby is a defensive minded coach. LISTEN to his shows and see how much he talks about DEFENSE
I think this is why Tubby will have trouble recruiting anything more than role players.

Imagine if you are a kid with great talent who truly has a shot at the NBA
( Nothing wrong with that, we all have our dreams )
Are you going to a school like UNC, Texas, Kansas, Duke where you will be given a green light
to slash, shoot, score, and showcase for the NBA scouts on TV or do you come to Minn so your
coach can teach you defense? Just like the announcers said yesterday. IT TAKES BOTH !!
Great teams have defense and offense. If a team gets by your defense and you don't have the offense to match them, game over.
Tubby is a good coach of defense, but in watching his games it shows where he is putting the emphasis of his coaching. You are right that you would expect more improvement from players who have now been taught by Tubby for 3 years. All teams have adversity. Great coaches and great teams rise above.
Click to expand...

Tubby has had 18 of his players make the NBA in 18 years as HC in Div I. His recruits/players would do well to listen to his advice on getting to the NBA.
 

Honyocker said:
Tubby has two recruiting classes of HIS guys on this team. The Jr's and Sr's are either Monson recruits (Nolen, Hoff, Westbrook, etc.)or JC guys plugged in to fill gaps in the roster. And maybe the two most important recuits Tubby has brought to Williams Arena are sitting at the end of the bench in street clothes (Trevor and Royce).

Tubby is making a little lemonade out of lemons here. When Tubby took over for Pitino at Kentucky, he won a national championship in his first season....because the roster had talent. No such situation when Tubby took over here. He has to go get the talent, develop it and then start to win big.

And win big he will.
Click to expand...

Gophers were 77-80 cumulatively in 2003 thru 2007 seasons.

Gophers are 54-34 cumulatively in 2008 thru 2010 (so far).

Better (certainly) but disappointing in 2010 (so far). Should be at least 15-4 now.
 

nuggett said:
Tubby is a defensive minded coach. LISTEN to his shows and see how much he talks about DEFENSE
I think this is why Tubby will have trouble recruiting anything more than role players.

Imagine if you are a kid with great talent who truly has a shot at the NBA
( Nothing wrong with that, we all have our dreams )
Are you going to a school like UNC, Texas, Kansas, Duke where you will be given a green light
to slash, shoot, score, and showcase for the NBA scouts on TV or do you come to Minn so your
coach can teach you defense? Just like the announcers said yesterday. IT TAKES BOTH !!
Great teams have defense and offense. If a team gets by your defense and you don't have the offense to match them, game over.
Tubby is a good coach of defense, but in watching his games it shows where he is putting the emphasis of his coaching. You are right that you would expect more improvement from players who have now been taught by Tubby for 3 years. All teams have adversity. Great coaches and great teams rise above.
Click to expand...

What a load of crap. Tubby players are always regarded as well-coached players by NBA scouts. You guys have no clue about basketball. The reason that we have an offense like this is because of the most expierienced and worst player in the team. Westbrook is cancer as many have stated before. He never passes the ball and the time that he decides to do it, he turns it over. How many times did we see the ball in his hands while Devoe was wide open under the basket? Unfortunately, resources are limitted. This team almost won against # 7 team in the country and you are criticizing the coach? Also, this team is # 2 in Big10 in offense. Before you make stupid comments like this, Please read some books about basketball.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
What a load of crap. Tubby players are always regarded as well-coached players by NBA scouts. You guys have no clue about basketball. The reason that we have an offense like this is because of the most expierienced and worst player in the team. Westbrook is cancer as many have stated before. He never passes the ball and the time that he decides to do it, he turns it over. How many times did we see the ball in his hands while Devoe was wide open under the basket? Unfortunately, resources are limitted. This team almost won against # 7 team in the country and you are criticizing the coach? Also, this team is # 2 in Big10 in offense. Before you make stupid comments like this, Please read some books about basketball.
Click to expand...

Whoa there. If Westbrook were the "worst player on the team" and a cancer then wouldn't the coach bench him? Your statement doesn't add up - please recalculate. Tubby has had chances to sit Westbrook, especially when Nolen was still here. If Westbrook were really the worst player on the team he could certainly go with Cobbs at point and Joseph at the 2 or he could go with Joseph at the point and use Bostick or Hoff at the 2, or go three guards with all of the above playing. But he's not doing that.
 

bga1 said:
Whoa there. If Westbrook were the "worst player on the team" and a cancer then wouldn't the coach bench him? Your statement doesn't add up - please recalculate. Tubby has had chances to sit Westbrook, especially when Nolen was still here. If Westbrook were really the worst player on the team he could certainly go with Cobbs at point and Joseph at the 2 or he could go with Joseph at the point and use Bostick or Hoff at the 2, or go three guards with all of the above playing. But he's not doing that.
Click to expand...

Fantastic game plan. Congrads, you are hired as the new Gopher coach.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Fantastic game plan. Congrads, you are hired as the new Gopher coach.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't read basketball books on X's and O's so I am out of the running. I was thinking you would be great at it until I realized that your logic didn't add up. And that is the real truth. :)
 

bga1 said:
Actually, I don't read basketball books on X's and O's so I am out of the running. I was thinking you would be great at it until I realized that your logic didn't add up. And that is the real truth. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll work on it. Cheers.
 

bga1 said:
Whoa there. If Westbrook were the "worst player on the team" and a cancer then wouldn't the coach bench him? Your statement doesn't add up - please recalculate. Tubby has had chances to sit Westbrook, especially when Nolen was still here. If Westbrook were really the worst player on the team he could certainly go with Cobbs at point and Joseph at the 2 or he could go with Joseph at the point and use Bostick or Hoff at the 2, or go three guards with all of the above playing. But he's not doing that.
Click to expand...

4 assists and only 1 TO against MSU, all while turning it overe every time he passses, even though he never passes. Who knew?
 

From the Barn said:
4 assists and only 1 TO against MSU, all while turning it overe every time he passses, even though he never passes. Who knew?
Click to expand...

Stats are missleading. Even at the last play, he could have easily passed the damn ball to Ralph for an easy layup. Instead, he tried to be the hero. I can hardly wait to see him gone.
 

hate to nit-pick

The-Real-Truth said:
Stats are missleading. Even at the last play, he could have easily passed the damn ball to Ralph for an easy layup. Instead, he tried to be the hero. I can hardly wait to see him gone.
Click to expand...

I hate to nit-pink on these players because when you are on the floor you can't always see everything clearly, BUT, on Westy's last ill-fated drive Devoe was standing free and clear over in the corner.

Westy is what Westy is. I try to keep in mind he beat Wiscy last year in Madison. That makes me feel alot better. :D

Thank you for that, Lawrence.

:clap::clap::clap:
 

josh087 said:
The reason they have scored as many points in the BT that they have are because of:
1) Their Defense
2) They have played in a few games that have been officiated very tightly resulting in a ton of FTs that have made their ppg misleading
Click to expand...

So the fact that the team is leading the conference in scoring doesn't mean anything? Okay, got it. All anyone has done in this thread is talk about how awful the offense is, yet when the team's actual numbers indicate the offense is is not horrible, now it's only because of this or that (defense, high numbers of fouls). Funny, I was under the impression that scoring points off of defense and free throws still count towards offense. And for the record, our free throw shooting ranks near the bottom of the Big Ten, so to cite that as a reason why our offense is "misleading" is indeed very "misleading."

Does the offense bog down in the half court at times? Yes. So does the other schools' respective offenses apparently. It all comes down to making the plays when it counts. So far, these guys have not shown the ability to do that and that's why we're losing games.
 

MRJ said:
So the fact that the team is leading the conference in scoring doesn't mean anything? Okay, got it. All anyone has done in this thread is talk about how awful the offense is, yet when the team's actual numbers indicate the offense is is not horrible, now it's only because of this or that (defense, high numbers of fouls). Funny, I was under the impression that scoring points off of defense and free throws still count towards offense. And for the record, our free throw shooting ranks near the bottom of the Big Ten, so to cite that as a reason why our offense is "misleading" is indeed very "misleading."

Does the offense bog down in the half court at times? Yes. So does the other schools' respective offenses apparently. It all comes down to making the plays when it counts. So far, these guys have not shown the ability to do that and that's why we're losing games.
Click to expand...

OKAY. I hear ya. So I think you are saying that the offense is good except if we need it.
 

bga1 said:
OKAY. I hear ya. So I think you are saying that the offense is good except if we need it.
Click to expand...

No, that's not what I said. What I said is that the guys aren't making plays when they absolutely need to have one. That goes for both ends of the court. Against Michigan State, we couldn't make the key shot when we needed it. Against Indiana, we couldn't get a stop on defense to save our lives. It all comes down to making the play when it counts, whether it's on offense or defense. People want to blame the offense for all the losses, but the reality is that we've had times where we've struggled defensively and offensively and both have at times helped us lose games. It's not all offense and it's not all defense.
 

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