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gopherbadgerman

gopherbadgerman

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Maybe someone here has insight that I do not have - why is Rodney Williams unable to see much of the floor. He looked really strong early in the year, and was a what, top 50 or 75 player coming out of HS, usually those types of players make some sort of an impact.

Was he overrated coming out of HS? Just has not developed?

I dont know, just looking for some perspective...
 

Rodney was not overrated IMO, but a lot of what went into his ranking was raw potential. He is very far from being a finished product and will continue to get better. He wasn't brought in to be an immediate go-to player, but rather be a good defender and possible spark off the bench before he develops into that player he has the potential to be. He's the type of guy that could end up being either just a solid college player or a lottery pick in the NBA draft and future all-star, it all depends on how hard he works. I'm hoping for the latter, or at least close to.
 

He could develop into nice a player, he's just raw. I think a good example would be Damian Johnson, who needed a redshirt and frosh season before his game caught-up to his athleticism.

I don't know if Coach Smith trusts him enough to put him on the floor in conference play. As it is, he's battling Westbrook, Hoffarber, and Johnson for PT on the wing. 2 of those 3 are gone next season, so there will be minutes to compete for.
 

akgopher said:
He could develop into nice a player, he's just raw. I think a good example would be Damian Johnson, who needed a redshirt and frosh season before his game caught-up to his athleticism.

I don't know if Coach Smith trusts him enough to put him on the floor in conference play. As it is, he's battling Westbrook, Hoffarber, and Johnson for PT on the wing. 2 of those 3 are gone next season, so there will be minutes to compete for.
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He should be better than Johnson though? At least some must think so. Johnson is a ok player, I just thought Williams was supposed to be an impact type guy. I dont really think Johnson is a major impact player...
 

Recruiting is a very inexact science, so jsut because Rodney was rated higher doesn't necessarily mean he will be better. I do think that in time he will be and could be one of our best players, but it's not a given and he needs to work for it. His potential is off the charts and it's up to him to take advantage of it, and I think/hope he will.
 


gopherbadgerman said:
He should be better than Johnson though? At least some must think so. Johnson is a ok player, I just thought Williams was supposed to be an impact type guy. I dont really think Johnson is a major impact player...
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Who knows. Johnson is struggling this year, but was the glue last year. He's still a top 7-8 player on any Big Ten Team.

Williams appears to have more athleticism and burst than Johnson. People need to remember what Johnson brings to the defensive side of the floor. He might be struggling because he's playing a lot out of position at the 4.
 

Williams did not bring much to the game today as he did not match up well with MSU. I look for him to do well against some other BT teams and next year as he gains in experience. I'm not worried - when he shines, he really shines.
 

akgopher said:
Who knows. Johnson is struggling this year, but was the glue last year. He's still a top 7-8 player on any Big Ten Team.

Williams appears to have more athleticism and burst than Johnson. People need to remember what Johnson brings to the defensive side of the floor. He might be struggling because he's playing a lot out of position at the 4.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27057

Struggling? Johnson is playing about the same as last season... In stats and on the court.

I watched the game again, I'm not sure why people are so thrilled about RS3's play. He did some good things, not a great game.
 

98VQueens said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27057


I watched the game again, I'm not sure why people are so thrilled about RS3's play. He did some good things, not a great game.
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Agree not a great game by any means. If you look at 8pts 9rbs that looks ok, but he did miss a couple easy shots and does not take the ball hard at the hoop. If at this time next year this is still the case I will give up on him, but hopefully he continues to improve.
 




gopherbadgerman said:
He looked really strong early in the year, and was a what, top 50 or 75 player coming out of HS, usually those types of players make some sort of an impact.

Was he overrated coming out of HS? Just has not developed?

I dont know, just looking for some perspective...
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Errr.. he is making 'some sort of an impact'. Definitely a top 50 (35ish is about right) recruit, but that certainly does not guarantee you're going to make a great impact in year 1.

In Rodney's case, he's a freak athlete. Long and obviously has crazy hops... but the tendency to 'disappear' at times has been there even before college. He'll be fine - whether he'll be just a good player at the U or a great one is yet to be seen, but at a minimum he'll be very exciting and is capable of making 14,000 jaws drop at any given moment. I was hoping for a little bit more from him this year, but with Tubby as his coach I understand. The athleticism is amazing.
 

Potential lottery picks don't go scoreless in 4 minutes in a crucial game like this. Rodney very well could be a solid B10 player and even get a cup of coffee in the NBA, but I think any talk of that sort should be put to bed for now. This isn't college football where future NFL players need a year or 2 to develop. In basketball, if you're a stud future lottery pick, you make an impact almost immediately.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Potential lottery picks don't go scoreless in 4 minutes in a crucial game like this. Rodney very well could be a solid B10 player and even get a cup of coffee in the NBA, but I think any talk of that sort should be put to bed for now. This isn't college football where future NFL players need a year or 2 to develop. In basketball, if you're a stud future lottery pick, you make an impact almost immediately.
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IMO he could definitely be a FUTURE lottery pick, but it will probably take the full four years
 



Art Vandelay said:
Potential lottery picks don't go scoreless in 4 minutes in a crucial game like this. Rodney very well could be a solid B10 player and even get a cup of coffee in the NBA, but I think any talk of that sort should be put to bed for now. This isn't college football where future NFL players need a year or 2 to develop. In basketball, if you're a stud future lottery pick, you make an impact almost immediately.
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Every player is different. It wasn't long ago that freshmen making big impacts was a rarity.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Agree not a great game by any means. If you look at 8pts 9rbs that looks ok, but he did miss a couple easy shots and does not take the ball hard at the hoop. If at this time next year this is still the case I will give up on him, but hopefully he continues to improve.
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Ralph has a long way to go, but big improvement this year.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Potential lottery picks don't go scoreless in 4 minutes in a crucial game like this. Rodney very well could be a solid B10 player and even get a cup of coffee in the NBA, but I think any talk of that sort should be put to bed for now. This isn't college football where future NFL players need a year or 2 to develop. In basketball, if you're a stud future lottery pick, you make an impact almost immediately.
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These were pretty much my thoughts in the OP. Just not quite as firm. I agree Art.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Potential lottery picks don't go scoreless in 4 minutes in a crucial game like this. Rodney very well could be a solid B10 player and even get a cup of coffee in the NBA, but I think any talk of that sort should be put to bed for now. This isn't college football where future NFL players need a year or 2 to develop. In basketball, if you're a stud future lottery pick, you make an impact almost immediately.
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Joe Alexander averaged 1.3 points per game as a freshman at West Virginia before leaving after his junior season and was picked 8th overall in the 2008 NBA draft. Him and Rodney are somewhat similar players in the sense that they are freakishly athletic and were somewhat raw coming into college. Who knows, maybe Rodney will follow a similar path.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27301
 

How do you think DJ was any better last year? I don't think he's way improve this year but I think he's clearly better this year. It also doesn't help playing out of position at times as you said and having an injury.

akgopher said:
Who knows. Johnson is struggling this year, but was the glue last year. He's still a top 7-8 player on any Big Ten Team.

Williams appears to have more athleticism and burst than Johnson. People need to remember what Johnson brings to the defensive side of the floor. He might be struggling because he's playing a lot out of position at the 4.
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GophersOnTheRise said:
Joe Alexander averaged 1.3 points per game as a freshman at West Virginia before leaving after his junior season and was picked 8th overall in the 2008 NBA draft. Him and Rodney are somewhat similar players in the sense that they are freakishly athletic and were somewhat raw coming into college. Who knows, maybe Rodney will follow a similar path.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27301
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good perspective.

Hopefully it can work out. Pretty frustrating as of now, getting NOTHING from a recruiting class ranked so high at the beginning of the year.
 

Rodney looks scared to do anything other than pass on offense in the halfcourt. Even in the non-conference his points seemed to come on fast break situations. He will shoot if absolutely necessary - like at the end of the half @ Indiana, but IMO Tubby has drilled into him that he is a role player and if he wants minutes he better not do anything more.

This is the main problem I have with Tubby's "offense." He won't let anyone do anything creative - then people wonder why the offense bogs down in late game situations.

It would do wonders for Rodney's confidence if he were allowed to dribble drive once in a while during his freshman year - kick it out to a teammate. It might not be until yr 3 until he finally is allowed to do so - IMO not the way to develop a player offensively.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Joe Alexander averaged 1.3 points per game as a freshman at West Virginia before leaving after his junior season and was picked 8th overall in the 2008 NBA draft. Him and Rodney are somewhat similar players in the sense that they are freakishly athletic and were somewhat raw coming into college. Who knows, maybe Rodney will follow a similar path.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27301
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Joe Alexander is an exception to a lot of rules - not a 'path' that many can go. My recollection: the kid played in Asia and then got to the US for two years of high school ball. He was getting no interest from D-1 colleges and therefore went to Hargrave Military Academy for a year of prep school in hopes of getting scholarship offers. During that year, his stock grew, and Pittsburgh obviously offered him. A a relative unknown.. intriguing guy with potentially a ton of upside, but was still behind a lot of kids...

Contrast that with Rodney Williams, who had been on the recruiting radar of many for years, and has played AAU and with the big boys for years. Alexander played in only 10 games and less than 40 minutes the entire season -- Rodney plays 13 minutes a game and could earn more if he was playing better.

The only 'path' to the NBA for Alexander was to make people learn about who he was, and it was going to take time. Even after his junior year at Pitt, it was hard to figure out who he really was. The Milwaukee Bucks, with the 8th pick, learned that indeed they didn't know who he was. 2+ years after being drafted, Joey is the highest-drafted player ever to not have this third-year option picked up in the NBA.

But, there are plenty of examples of non-bigs that improve greatly over their college years and become high NBA draft picks (Gophers example.. hmm.. Willie!)
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Joe Alexander is an exception to a lot of rules - not a 'path' that many can go. My recollection: the kid played in Asia and then got to the US for two years of high school ball. He was getting no interest from D-1 colleges and therefore went to Hargrave Military Academy for a year of prep school in hopes of getting scholarship offers. During that year, his stock grew, and Pittsburgh obviously offered him. A a relative unknown.. intriguing guy with potentially a ton of upside, but was still behind a lot of kids...

Contrast that with Rodney Williams, who had been on the recruiting radar of many for years, and has played AAU and with the big boys for years. Alexander played in only 10 games and less than 40 minutes the entire season -- Rodney plays 13 minutes a game and could earn more if he was playing better.

The only 'path' to the NBA for Alexander was to make people learn about who he was, and it was going to take time. Even after his junior year at Pitt, it was hard to figure out who he really was. The Milwaukee Bucks, with the 8th pick, learned that indeed they didn't know who he was. 2+ years after being drafted, Joey is the highest-drafted player ever to not have this third-year option picked up in the NBA.

But, there are plenty of examples of non-bigs that improve greatly over their college years and become high NBA draft picks (Gophers example.. hmm.. Willie!)
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He played at West Virginia, not Pittsburgh, and I don't know why him averaging less than two points per game would have anything to do with people figuring out who he was. It's not like he was waiting for people to figure out who he was before he decided to become effective. The point is that some players make immediate impacts, some don't, but that doesn't necessarily determine their long-term success. Just because Rodney isn't lighting the world on fire right now doesn't mean he can't become a future lottery pick. Joe Alexander is just one example that proves that point.
 

josh087 said:
It would do wonders for Rodney's confidence if he were allowed to dribble drive once in a while during his freshman year - kick it out to a teammate. It might not be until yr 3 until he finally is allowed to do so - IMO not the way to develop a player offensively.
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Does Rodney even have the handles to dribble-drive?
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
He played at West Virginia, not Pittsburgh, and I don't know why him averaging less than two points per game would have anything to do with people figuring out who he was. It's not like he was waiting for people to figure out who he was before he decided to start become effective. The point is that some players make immediate impacts, some don't, but that doesn't necessarily determine their long-term success. Just because Rodney isn't lighting the world on fire right now doesn't mean he can't become a future lottery pick. Joe Alexander is just one example that proves that point.
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No idea why I typed Pitt vs. WVU... I think Sam Young was also at Hargrave.. maybe that got into my mind. Anyway, I need a drink. Wow.

I agree - a player can not 'light the world on fire' in their first year and still become a lottery pick. I am saying Joe Alexander is a bad example because of his background and unique situation, which is very different from that of Rodney Williams.

At any rate, Rodney isn't ever going to be a NBA lottery pick, but he may become a great player for the Gophers.
 

josh087 said:
Rodney looks scared to do anything other than pass on offense in the halfcourt. Even in the non-conference his points seemed to come on fast break situations. He will shoot if absolutely necessary - like at the end of the half @ Indiana, but IMO Tubby has drilled into him that he is a role player and if he wants minutes he better not do anything more.

This is the main problem I have with Tubby's "offense." He won't let anyone do anything creative - then people wonder why the offense bogs down in late game situations.

It would do wonders for Rodney's confidence if he were allowed to dribble drive once in a while during his freshman year - kick it out to a teammate. It might not be until yr 3 until he finally is allowed to do so - IMO not the way to develop a player offensively.
Click to expand...

Tubby will put everyone on the baseline and let LW create his own shot. Towards the end of the game yesterday, Tubby called that offense but LW didn't get off a good shot. I to want to see if RW will be that player someday.....hope so.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
No idea why I typed Pitt vs. WVU... I think Sam Young was also at Hargrave.. maybe that got into my mind. Anyway, I need a drink. Wow.

I agree - a player can not 'light the world on fire' in their first year and still become a lottery pick. I am saying Joe Alexander is a bad example because of his background and unique situation, which is very different from that of Rodney Williams.

At any rate, Rodney isn't ever going to be a NBA lottery pick, but he may become a great player for the Gophers.
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May I ask what about his background and unique situation makes him very different? I understand people weren't aware of Alexander as much and he was under the radar, but what does that have to do with him averaging less than 2 points per game as a freshman? From what you said it seems you are implying that he only averaged those numbers because people didn't know who he was? Is that really what you mean? Comparing two players that need(ed) extra time for their skills to catch up to their athletic ability and happen to play the same position seems about as good of a comparison and you could possibly have. I'm not saying that Rodney will or will not be a lottery pick, but his combination of length and athleticism gives him the potential that 99.9% of players could only dream of.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
May I ask what about his background and unique situation makes him very different? I understand people weren't aware of Alexander as much and he was under the radar, but what does that have to do with him averaging less than 2 points per game as a freshman? From what you said it seems you are implying that he only averaged those numbers because people didn't know who he was? Is that really what you mean? Comparing two players that need(ed) extra time for their skills to catch up to their athletic ability and happen to play the same position seems about as good of a comparison and you could possibly have. I'm not saying that Rodney will or will not be a lottery pick, but his combination of length and athleticism gives him the potential that 99.9% of players could only dream of.
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Before college:
Alexander: Played basketball in Asia. Came back to the US for final two years of high school. Had zero interest from D-1 schools, so he went to a year of prep school before getting a scholarship from a good school. People didn't know what kind of player he might turn out to be.

Williams: Played basketball in the USA. Has played ball for years against people that also are going to be playing D-1 college ball and many that already have played college ball. Has been considered a high-major recruit for some time. People expect him to be a good college basketball player.

In year one:
Alexander: Didn't play. He took 8 flipping shots the entire year. Appeared in only 10 games, for a total of about 35 minutes. He had no chance to do anything in year one. He averaged what he did because he did not play, period.

Williams: Has played 13 minutes per game thus far. Table is set for him, should he want it. He can get more minutes if his performance warrants it. He has averaged what he did because he didn't play as well as he could have.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Before college:
Alexander: Played basketball in Asia. Came back to the US for final two years of high school. Had zero interest from D-1 schools, so he went to a year of prep school before getting a scholarship from a good school. People didn't know what kind of player he might turn out to be.

Williams: Played basketball in the USA. Has played ball for years against people that also are going to be playing D-1 college ball and many that already have played college ball. Has been considered a high-major recruit for some time. People expect him to be a good college basketball player.

In year one:
Alexander: Didn't play. He took 8 flipping shots the entire year. Appeared in only 10 games, for a total of about 35 minutes. He had no chance to do anything in year one. He averaged what he did because he did not play, period.

Williams: Has played 13 minutes per game thus far. Table is set for him, should he want it. He can get more minutes if his performance warrants it. He has averaged what he did because he didn't play as well as he could have.
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Why would that only apply to Rodney? Don't you think Alexander's lack of playing time may have been because he wasn't performing well enough? Perhaps that was because he needed extra time to develop into a capable contributor? I understand that their situations are different, but the fact is they both came into college as athletic freaks who needed extra time to develop their skills, who cares what the reason is that their skills weren't up to par with their athleticism? You might as well say they are different situations because Rodney has a different favorite color than Alexander and prefers comedy movies over thrillers. Who cares? It's the same situation as far as I'm concerned. I see we are probably never going to agree on this though, so I'll just leave it at that and let people discuss other topics.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Why would that only apply to Rodney? Don't you think Alexander's lack of playing time may have been because he wasn't performing well enough? Perhaps that was because he needed extra time to develop into a capable contributor? I understand that their situations are different, but the fact is they both came into college as athletic freaks who needed extra time to develop their skills, who cares what the reason is that their skills weren't up to par with their athleticism? You might as well say they are different situations because Rodney has a different favorite color than Alexander and prefers comedy movies over thrillers. Who cares? It's the same situation as far as I'm concerned. I see we are probably never going to agree on this though, so I'll just leave it at that and let people discuss other topics.
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It doesn't apply only to Rodney. It applies to many people that are projected as potential first year contributors. Joe Alexander was not in the same situation. He never had a chance to play. Rodney gets to play. Once Joe had a chance to play, he did better than Rodney currently has -- the 1.3 average ppg is unfair - it's better phrased as, 'he barely touched the floor'.

But, fine - let's use Joe as the perfect example. I can't argue with logic like this:

GophersOnTheRise said:
I understand that their situations are different
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GophersOnTheRise said:
It's the same situation as far as I'm concerned.
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You mean like the big play in yesterday's came where he cut their lead to 1 with under a min left.

akgopher said:
Johnson carried the team at crucial junctures and made big plays in the crunch last year, I haven't seen that this season.
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