Kill can recruit!

[DrunkGopher]

I like Wells and Thompson however, Royston was a better safety (IMO).

Royston had the impossible task of being our best safety, the last line of our defense and an amazingly productive tackler and also having to cover WR's like a safety...ALL THE TIME.
Last year, we generated very little pass rush without bringing the house (think of the amount of corner blitzes coming from Henderson), which left guys like Royston and Lewis in an almost impossible task. Furthermore, last year we played without Stoud (almost all year), without Carter, etc.

Wells, Thompson and Vereen played well last year, but they also had the fortune of the emergence of Hageman and much improved corner play.

I completely agree that Royston was the better safety (lets not forget though that Royston was a senior and Wells is only a sophomore) and probably the best player on the team last year he just had no to pass rush to help him cover. No DB can cover for 7+ seconds. I am actually surprised that he didn't even get a shot at the NFL or the combine. He would seem like prototypical player that the NFL scouts would want to see up close.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I don't think the obvious improvement is primarily a result of good recruiting. I think Kill & his staff are much better coaches than they are recruiters the attention to details and the 2nd year under the same staff are the main reasons for the improvement. I for one am sure looking forward to year Kill3.

I agree with this but I think it goes back to the question of how you define the term "recruiting". If recruiting simply means the ability to get players to choose your school over better/equal alternatives...I agree with your point.
If "recruiting" also includes the ability to identify the players who fit your scheme and the players who you think will be able to develop according to your coaching style, I think that Kill is a terrific recruiter.

However, I think we are thinking along the same lines, Kill does a great job at finding and developing "diamonds in the rough", whether you lump that ability into "recruiting" or "coaching" is just semantics.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I completely agree that Royston was the better safety (lets not forget though that Royston was a senior and Wells is only a sophomore) and probably the best player on the team last year he just had no to pass rush to help him cover. No DB can cover for 7+ seconds. I am actually surprised that he didn't even get a shot at the NFL or the combine. He would seem like prototypical player that the NFL scouts would want to see up close.

I completely agree, I think the sky is the limit for Wells. I wouldn't be shocked if he moved back to corner (boundary corner ala Stoud).

As far as Kim, unfortunately, I believe he was unable to prepare for the NFL Draft / Rookie Free Agency due to injuries again. It's an unfortunate part of the game, but with his age and injury history, it made it almost physically impossible for Kim to have a career in the NFL.

 

[Schnauzer]

​

You know me so well...lol.

You were much more objective and level headed than I would be if I were in your shoes in replying to the OP.

 

[GopherInPittsburgh]

Royston also played last season injured, am I correct?

 

[GopherHomer]

I don't always agree with Sportsfan24, but you have to respect him. He is definitely more level-headed than your typical sports-dad. He defends his son (who wouldn't) but allows for honest debate. He's absolutely an asset to this board.

 

[DMB123]

This year we had 3 corners playing safety which is another reason why the pass defense was so good and part of the reason the run defense struggled. Give Claeys credit for fixing one gap, and look for Wells to move back to corner next year.
I'm equally impressed with the ability of Kill to find some pass rushers and have been really impressed with Amaefula. We have 4 nice DE's who all played a lot this year and still have 2-3 more years remaining.

No chance that happens. Wells has a chance to be an all-conference safety before he leaves. He's set at his position.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Royston also played last season injured, am I correct?

Correct.

 

[MaxyJR1]

No chance that happens. Wells has a chance to be an all-conference safety before he leaves. He's set at his position.

Ok he might make the team better at corner or he could be all-Big Ten at safety. If this I the case Kill will move him to corner. It has nothing to do with all-conference potential. It's where he makes the team better.

 

[victor04]

...

 

[John Galt]

No chance that happens. Wells has a chance to be an all-conference safety before he leaves. He's set at his position.

Given that one of our recruits said it during his interview (Godwin if I remember right), I would say there is a strong chance. It will be either Wells or Thompson, as we need someone to play corner for the next 2 years.

 

[Unregistered User]

You were much more objective and level headed than I would be if I were in your shoes in replying to the OP.

True, true, true.

I don't always agree with S24, but I have much respect for him for continuing to post here. And he knows a hell of a lot more than I do.

Related, I did like when Doogie posted here. Also didn't agree with him all the time, but I respected that he posted here while not being anonymous.

 

[e.bigelow]

You were much more objective and level headed than I would be if I were in your shoes in replying to the OP.

+1. Don't agree with Sportsfan24 on a lot of stuff. But, I do respect his opinion. Plus, I thought Kim was a heck of a football player and a great rep of the U. IMO.

 

[golden]

It's a D1 board to discuss our team, players are going to get praised and criticized.

I watched every minute of every game and by far the most noticible improvement is safety movement in space.

I'm a former D3 all-conference MIAC player, and now asst. varsity coach. I'm not maybe the expert some on here are, but feel like I know football somewhat.

DL Wilhite & Michael Carter were the two best players on the team IMO. I also think Roland Johnson, Cockran, & Amefula, Stoudermire, Thompson & Wellls were average to above average players. I feel like our LB's were the greatest weakness of our team. They were noticably poor vs. the run. Cooper looked like a true freshman vs. a 5th year senior, and Rallis was inconsistent at best.

Our O-line was so beat up it was hard to tell what we have there. Mottla, Epping, & T Olson are the 3 best we've got, and Campion improved as the season went by. I'm not a big E Olson fan, even early before he was healthy he didn't do much.

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

If Kim was a decent prospect he would have been picked up by an NFL team or been on a practice squad.

Again, I didn't come here to bash your Royston, but rather I'm pleased to see guys like Wells, Thompson, Cockran, Amafula be impact players that KIll's staff found.

Peace out

 

[mnsports1]

It's a D1 board to discuss our team, players are going to get praised and criticized.

I watched every minute of every game and by far the most noticible improvement is safety movement in space.

I'm a former D3 all-conference MIAC player, and now asst. varsity coach. I'm not maybe the expert some on here are, but feel like I know football somewhat.

DL Wilhite & Michael Carter were the two best players on the team IMO. I also think Roland Johnson, Cockran, & Amefula, Stoudermire, Thompson & Wellls were average to above average players. I feel like our LB's were the greatest weakness of our team. They were noticably poor vs. the run. Cooper looked like a true freshman vs. a 5th year senior, and Rallis was inconsistent at best.

Our O-line was so beat up it was hard to tell what we have there. Mottla, Epping, & T Olson are the 3 best we've got, and Campion improved as the season went by. I'm not a big E Olson fan, even early before he was healthy he didn't do much.

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

If Kim was a decent prospect he would have been picked up by an NFL team or been on a practice squad.

Again, I didn't come here to bash your Royston, but rather I'm pleased to see guys like Wells, Thompson, Cockran, Amafula be impact players that KIll's staff found.

Peace out

What does your moms BF have to say about this?

 

[MNVCGUY]

It's a D1 board to discuss our team, players are going to get praised and criticized.

I watched every minute of every game and by far the most noticible improvement is safety movement in space.

I'm a former D3 all-conference MIAC player, and now asst. varsity coach. I'm not maybe the expert some on here are, but feel like I know football somewhat.

DL Wilhite & Michael Carter were the two best players on the team IMO. I also think Roland Johnson, Cockran, & Amefula, Stoudermire, Thompson & Wellls were average to above average players. I feel like our LB's were the greatest weakness of our team. They were noticably poor vs. the run. Cooper looked like a true freshman vs. a 5th year senior, and Rallis was inconsistent at best.

Our O-line was so beat up it was hard to tell what we have there. Mottla, Epping, & T Olson are the 3 best we've got, and Campion improved as the season went by. I'm not a big E Olson fan, even early before he was healthy he didn't do much.

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

If Kim was a decent prospect he would have been picked up by an NFL team or been on a practice squad.

Again, I didn't come here to bash your Royston, but rather I'm pleased to see guys like Wells, Thompson, Cockran, Amafula be impact players that KIll's staff found.

Peace out

First off to your qualifications....thank god you have those to see that the LB's were terrible this year. Us non-coaches who didn't see every minute of every game clearly couldn't see that.

You say you are not out to get Royston yet you keep going after him. The entire secondary was a liability last year because we had zero pass rush so QB's could just sit in the pocket, check their e-mail, then throw to an open receiver because no DB can stay with a receiver forever if the QB has all the time in the world to throw.

As for ability to play in the NFL being the only indicator of how good a player is that is just complete BS. Do you realize how few guys actually make it to the NFL? Royston was a solid player who came back from a MAJOR leg injury and played as best he could on a crappy defense. Those impact guys you listed above....one, maybe two of them will get a true look in the NFL and they won't be top round guys.

I'm not Kim's dad but not really sure why you feel the need to pin all the deficiencies in the secondary on him. Seems like there were 3 other DB's and 7 other defenders out there with him as well. Our pass D got better this year because we actually managed to generate a pass rush from time to time against the teams that liked to throw the ball.

 

[Formo]

Wells and Thompson BOTH seem like DECENT Big Ten PLAYERS but I think it might BE a little EARLY to START tossing around NFL for either of THEM.

You might wanna check into fixing your caps lock. It's going wonky.

He's fair game. You play on the big stage folks are entitled to an opinion....I have mine so why shouldn't they have theirs?

This is why I love SF24's posts. Not because he's a players dad, but because of the respect he shows to others' posts. And I hardly agree with him most of the time.

What does your moms BF have to say about this?

Hahahahaah!

 

[doctor j]

It's a D1 board to discuss our team, players are going to get praised and criticized.

I watched every minute of every game and by far the most noticible improvement is safety movement in space.

I'm a former D3 all-conference MIAC player, and now asst. varsity coach. I'm not maybe the expert some on here are, but feel like I know football somewhat.

DL Wilhite & Michael Carter were the two best players on the team IMO. I also think Roland Johnson, Cockran, & Amefula, Stoudermire, Thompson & Wellls were average to above average players. I feel like our LB's were the greatest weakness of our team. They were noticably poor vs. the run. Cooper looked like a true freshman vs. a 5th year senior, and Rallis was inconsistent at best.

Our O-line was so beat up it was hard to tell what we have there. Mottla, Epping, & T Olson are the 3 best we've got, and Campion improved as the season went by. I'm not a big E Olson fan, even early before he was healthy he didn't do much.

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

If Kim was a decent prospect he would have been picked up by an NFL team or been on a practice squad.

Again, I didn't come here to bash your Royston, but rather I'm pleased to see guys like Wells, Thompson, Cockran, Amafula be impact players that KIll's staff found.

Peace out

I think your overall analysis is spot on. I didn't watch the O-line play that carefully so I would not have an opinion about the specific play of each player. Linebacking was a weakness this year (and last), and the defensive players you mentioned that are coming back are all solid and will likely improve for 2013.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It's a D1 board to discuss our team, players are going to get praised and criticized.

I watched every minute of every game and by far the most noticible improvement is safety movement in space.

I'm a former D3 all-conference MIAC player, and now asst. varsity coach. I'm not maybe the expert some on here are, but feel like I know football somewhat.

DL Wilhite & Michael Carter were the two best players on the team IMO. I also think Roland Johnson, Cockran, & Amefula, Stoudermire, Thompson & Wellls were average to above average players. I feel like our LB's were the greatest weakness of our team. They were noticably poor vs. the run. Cooper looked like a true freshman vs. a 5th year senior, and Rallis was inconsistent at best.

Our O-line was so beat up it was hard to tell what we have there. Mottla, Epping, & T Olson are the 3 best we've got, and Campion improved as the season went by. I'm not a big E Olson fan, even early before he was healthy he didn't do much.

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

If Kim was a decent prospect he would have been picked up by an NFL team or been on a practice squad.

Again, I didn't come here to bash your Royston, but rather I'm pleased to see guys like Wells, Thompson, Cockran, Amafula be impact players that KIll's staff found.

Peace out

What? Seriously?

Someone who only checked the stats might make an argument that Wilhite was better than Hageman last year. They'd be wrong, but you are somehow considering Roland Johnson to have had a better year than Hageman.

Hageman or Carter were our best defensive players last year, it really wasn't that close.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

No one is kissing up to SH24, people disagree with him all of the time on this board. However, I simply can not believe you did any film study if you think Royston was a liability on pass coverage. He was asked to do WAY more than Wells or Thompson (Vereen had a better year than Thompson, but that's beside the point).

Royston played on a team who only got a pass rush when they sent the house. He played with Kyle Henderson, Brock Vereen and Johnny Johnson as his CBs. He was asked to be a corner and a safety at the same time (and also a LBer).

Comparing his assignment and ability to execute that assignment with what Wells, Thompson and Vereen had the luxury of playing this year is laughable.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

No chance that happens. Wells has a chance to be an all-conference safety before he leaves. He's set at his position.

I actually think he'll make a much better boundary corner than a safety. He was great this year, but he was god awful against the run on occasion because of the angles that he was taking (watch the Iowa and NWestern games...he was bad).

The boundary corner spot (Stoud was last year) isn't that big of a jump schematically for him. I think he'll be better there, better size for the position and we'll be better as a team because of it.

As far as there being "no chance" of it, well, we'll see.

 

[golden]

Watch every play that Roland Johnson had and everyone play that Hageman had....while Hageman had a lot of great plays, he was the single reason for a lot of bad ones. I'll take two Roland Johnson's as me DT's and you can have 2 Hageman's. You might get more sacks and tackles for losses, but you'll be giving up way more big plays as he lacks any sort of consistency.

The reason I singled out Royston is that my view was so skewed. I thought he was our best player last season, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. He may have lead the team in tackles last season, but he certainly lead the nation in missed tackles.

Royston was our best secondary player in 2011....its just that he wouldn't be in the top 6 on the 2012 team.

 

[Gopherprof]

Someone who only checked the stats might make an argument that Wilhite was better than Hageman last year.

We've had this discussion before, but I'll again disagree here. If anything, the stat line benefits Hageman more, as he made a lot of flashy plays, but was also terribly inconsistent. He's going to get the pub because of his size and flashes of dominance, but Wilhite and yes, Roland Johnson, were more consistent last year, especially against the run. Hageman would disappear for games; the above poster is absolutely correct. He needs to learn how to play with a consistent motor.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

We've had this discussion before, but I'll again disagree here. If anything, the stat line benefits Hageman more, as he made a lot of flashy plays, but was also terribly inconsistent. He's going to get the pub because of his size and flashes of dominance, but Wilhite and yes, Roland Johnson, were more consistent last year, especially against the run. Hageman would disappear for games; the above poster is absolutely correct. He needs to learn how to play with a consistent motor.

Like I said, the Wilhite argument could be a matter of opinion but I refuse to believe that anyone who closely watched the game would come to that conclusion. Roland Johnson was terrible against the run. He was an undersized speed guy who got pushed around on non-passing situations.

 

[Gopherprof]

Hageman was clearly the better player, but I do think Johnson was more consistent, particularly in his motor.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Watch every play that Roland Johnson had and everyone play that Hageman had....while Hageman had a lot of great plays, he was the single reason for a lot of bad ones. I'll take two Roland Johnson's as me DT's and you can have 2 Hageman's. You might get more sacks and tackles for losses, but you'll be giving up way more big plays as he lacks any sort of consistency.

The reason I singled out Royston is that my view was so skewed. I thought he was our best player last season, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. He may have lead the team in tackles last season, but he certainly lead the nation in missed tackles.

Royston was our best secondary player in 2011....its just that he wouldn't be in the top 6 on the 2012 team.

Yet, every single team double teamed Hageman and Roland Johnson rarely got double teamed. So my team of "2 Hagemans" would already be at a huge advantage. Our DE's would get sacks and our secondary would look better.


As far as Royston goes....don't you think some of the same things that helped Stoud, Carter and our safeties look better in 2012 (see pass rush generated by having a really good DT) could have possibly helped Royston?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Hageman was clearly the better player, but I do think Johnson was more consistent, particularly in his motor.

I agree, Johnson played harder at times, but he simply could not stand up to a Big 10 running game.

 

[Sportsfan24]

It's a D1 board to discuss our team, players are going to get praised and criticized.

I watched every minute of every game and by far the most noticible improvement is safety movement in space.

I'm a former D3 all-conference MIAC player, and now asst. varsity coach. I'm not maybe the expert some on here are, but feel like I know football somewhat.

DL Wilhite & Michael Carter were the two best players on the team IMO. I also think Roland Johnson, Cockran, & Amefula, Stoudermire, Thompson & Wellls were average to above average players. I feel like our LB's were the greatest weakness of our team. They were noticably poor vs. the run. Cooper looked like a true freshman vs. a 5th year senior, and Rallis was inconsistent at best.

Our O-line was so beat up it was hard to tell what we have there. Mottla, Epping, & T Olson are the 3 best we've got, and Campion improved as the season went by. I'm not a big E Olson fan, even early before he was healthy he didn't do much.

As for Royston, I don't know if he was hurt all year or not, or what the deal was, but he was a flat out liability in pass coverage, and wouldn't have been a top 3 safety on the 2012 team. I think if any of you take the time i did to study the film, you'd agree. I'm not going to suck up to SF24 just cuz he's Kim's dad.

If Kim was a decent prospect he would have been picked up by an NFL team or been on a practice squad.

Again, I didn't come here to bash your Royston, but rather I'm pleased to see guys like Wells, Thompson, Cockran, Amafula be impact players that KIll's staff found.

Peace out

My man, Kim's NFL evaluation PRAISED his pass coverage. It spoke specifically about his ability to function in space. You obviously have no idea how tough it is to tackle NFL caliber RB's; let alone in space to the tune of 200 plus time over just 2 seasons.

Kill? Last time I checked he could have had starting S tandem of Wells and Thompson in 2011....if Kim was so terrible and all.

I would suggest you wasted a hell of a lot of time watching a whole seasons worth of film...considering you didn't know what you were looking at.

You listed your credentials (seemed impressive enough) but then without knowing what schemes or passing coverages they were in you made an analysis? Lost credibility there my friend, head coaches don't even do that, and it's their team. As a college all conference player I'm sure youve heard coaches and players scream...."what was the coverage?"

They ask that rather important question because they need to know who had what assignment prior do determining who messed up. How did you make that determination? Oh I see, you pulled it out your arse?

You don't have to suck up to me, but you better come correct and on and point....I've played, coached and watched a little football myself.

 

[Sportsfan24]

I actually think he'll make a much better boundary corner than a safety. He was great this year, but he was god awful against the run on occasion because of the angles that he was taking (watch the Iowa and NWestern games...he was bad).

The boundary corner spot (Stoud was last year) isn't that big of a jump schematically for him. I think he'll be better there, better size for the position and we'll be better as a team because of it.

As far as there being "no chance" of it, well, we'll see.

Wells back to corner? It depends. That is a hell of jump from corner to safety. Kim was a safety in name only at Wisconsin (he really was nickel corner) and it took him 4 or 5 games to get comfortable in 2009. Had to learning tackling angles from that position which is completely different from being on the edge at corner.

I thought Troy would have made the transition better than any of them because he is a very physical corner. Today's safety has to be a combo player (cover and tackle), that's tough to do in the Big Ten. If the players in front of Wells play the run better and he improves some versus the run, I think he has All Conference written all over him. If not i agree with you, he should go back to corner because he has a future there as well (pun not intended). The bottom line is it won't matter who plays safety until we improve in the run game with the front seven....schematically and individual performance wise.

The thing I like that Kill has done is he has brought in football players. They all seem to be good enough to play at his level it's just where?

 

[lakesgopher]

Watch every play that Roland Johnson had and everyone play that Hageman had....while Hageman had a lot of great plays, he was the single reason for a lot of bad ones. I'll take two Roland Johnson's as me DT's and you can have 2 Hageman's. You might get more sacks and tackles for losses, but you'll be giving up way more big plays as he lacks any sort of consistency.

The reason I singled out Royston is that my view was so skewed. I thought he was our best player last season, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. He may have lead the team in tackles last season, but he certainly lead the nation in missed tackles.

Royston was our best secondary player in 2011....its just that he wouldn't be in the top 6 on the 2012 team.

I will watch every play, do you have the defensive schemes handy so I know if hageman was to rush the passer, take on blocks, etc etc? Not sure how they do things in d3...do they rush the qb every down? do they stand up blocks for lb's to flow to the ball? do their ends play strong contain or attack the ball? do they Do a little of everything depending on down and distance? too many situations and variables to decipher whats going each play imo. But if you have the teams play calls for the season I would love to check it out.

Hageman was easily our best dlineman, when the opponent singles him out as the guy to double team virtually every down, that means he is the biggest threat so yes Hageman was our best dlineman and carter can on very strong so he would be my number 2 defensive player.