If the Vikes stay it looks like they'll need to play in TCF Bank Stadium

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1gophergnu said:
I hope I'm wrong, but I can see the Gophers forced to play only 11:00AM home games to give the ground crew enough time to convert the stadium from a Gopher stadium to a Viking stadium. I really liked the afternoon games last year and would hate to go back to the morning ones.
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if the vikings at gopher stadium happens, this is where the U of M needs to hold their ground. on issues just like this. their mindset has to be first and foremost what is best for the U of M football program and what is best for U of M football fans. not was appeases and makes the vikings and their rubes happy.
 

supadupafly said:
it is b.s. if the legislature is going to paint the U of M into a corner on the alcohol sales issue. then the U of M should tell the state and vikings to "go pound sand" and no alcohol in general admission as well. that is unless the legislature finally wants to cooperate, come back to reality and work with the U of M regents on the issue and make a compromise where they cede control of the liquor issue back to the U of M regents in return for allowing the vikings to sell alcohol throughout the stadium only on NFL game days.
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So you want the U to take what might be a horrible public PR position against the #1 sports team in the state? I'm all for pushing the issue in private negotiations but telling the Vikings to go eff themselves if a stadium bill passes over beer would not be a good position to take.
 

If the NFL wants to block the Vikings playing at TCF, that's fine. But if they are going to do so, they should do so right away, even now, it is pretty late in the game for the NFL to make such a decision. It's been known for some time that the Vikings would be playing at TCF if a new stadium was built on the Metrodome site, there's been plenty of time for the NFL to decide whether or not they were OK with TCF being a temporary home for the Vikings.
 

GoAUpher said:
So you want the U to take what might be a horrible public PR position against the #1 sports team in the state? I'm all for pushing the issue in private negotiations but telling the Vikings to go eff themselves if a stadium bill passes over beer would not be a good position to take.
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ummmmm......YES. i am not concerned one bit (and the U of M shouldn't be either) about pissing of some of the vikings rubes who honestly couldn't give a rats arse about the U of M or our football program. unfortunately, there are probably more vikings rubes %-wise that feel that way towards the U of M and the gophers than the other way around. so why should we care how they feel? and those who are in fact gopher sports fans as well would for the most part understand where the U of M is coming from on this issue in terms of knowing that the legislature screwed the U of M back in 2009 on the alcohol sales issue at the 11th hour.

the U of M has leverage here. take full advantage of it to get what you want and need.

the way some think the vikings are so mighty and so important and that the U of M and the gophers should work hard to appease them and their wishes is bunk.
 

Plus, the Vikings have the leverage to get the legislature to allow the U to set its own alcohol policy. Then everyone wins, there is alcohol and Vikings games, and the U gets to make its own decisions. You couldn't ask for a better opportunity than this, and it would be a mistake to throw it away.
 


supadupafly said:
ummmmm......YES. i am not concerned one bit (and the U of M shouldn't be either) about pissing of some of the vikings rubes who honestly couldn't give a rats arse about the U of M or our football program. unfortunately, there are probably more vikings rubes %-wise that feel that way towards the U of M and the gophers than the other way around. so why should we care how they feel? and those who are in fact gopher sports fans as well would for the most part understand where the U of M is coming from on this issue in terms of knowing that the legislature screwed the U of M back in 2009 on the alcohol sales issue at the 11th hour.

the U of M has leverage here. take full advantage of it to get what you want and need.

the way some think the vikings are so mighty and so important and that the U of M and the gophers should work hard to appease them and their wishes is bunk.
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I agree partially with this statement about the leverage. I like the prospects of bringing in a bunch of extra revenue for the program (after the dome bent us over for years) and would rob the vikings blind in this situation.

Extra practice facility money, anyone?
 

Mason's comments on the situation on KFAN last night were very interesting.
Basically he said the U and more specifically the Gophers Football program better have a tough negotiator and have a bare minimum list of demands and things they will not compromise on.
He mentioned how badly the Gophers were treated in the dome, how they were second class citizens not allowed to use the home locker room, or even have their own lockers, how they were always to cater to the Vikings and Twins needs, they had no say in it.

Then he mentioned how Illinois and Ron Turner struggled with the Bears being hosted in Champagne, how it was a factor in that program struggling during those years.

I took a few thoughts from that.
1) Joel Maturi cannot be allowed to negotiate ANYTHING with the NFL, he will be too spineless and flexible to them.
2)They should be allowed to use the facilities at an acceptable rental rate, with upgrades to the stadium paid for by the NFL, etc. Nothing over the top, but there should be no expectation the U will bend over backwards to accommodate or pay for any of it.
3)The money should go to the football program 1st, the athletics department 2nd, and the campus traffic/police 3rd, no general fund BS. The arts department gets no cut, the business department gets no cut, etc. This will be a hassle for the football team and the money collected from the rent needs to go the the programs it will affect, not spread out over the University to pad pockets and pay for research/staff/administration.
4)The NFL and the Vikings need to allow the football program as much positive press and access as possible to parlay this situation into recruiting and PR. shots of the stadium, discussion of the beautiful campus and building football program need to be weekly additions to the gameday descriptions.
5) The alcohol law needs to be changed to allow the regents to control it once again, like it was before. The law now may allow the NFL game to be served, but it does nothing to help out the U's situation in the suites.
6)Any damages, wear and tear, or issues with the stadium will be fixed and paid for by the Vikings when they move out, possibly including new turf/carpet in the locker rooms, etc.

The U has no obligation to help out the billionaire(possibly trillionaire?) NFL, hopefully they get good, tough negotiators who can make this work without an ugly situation brewing.
 

supadupafly said:
ummmmm......YES. i am not concerned one bit (and the U of M shouldn't be either) about pissing of some of the vikings rubes who honestly couldn't give a rats arse about the U of M or our football program. unfortunately, there are probably more vikings rubes %-wise that feel that way towards the U of M and the gophers than the other way around. so why should we care how they feel? and those who are in fact gopher sports fans as well would for the most part understand where the U of M is coming from on this issue in terms of knowing that the legislature screwed the U of M back in 2009 on the alcohol sales issue at the 11th hour.

the U of M has leverage here. take full advantage of it to get what you want and need.

the way some think the vikings are so mighty and so important and that the U of M and the gophers should work hard to appease them and their wishes is bunk.
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Rubes are one thing. Legislators who will have FINALLY put together a deal are another. I'd be more worried about pissing them off. Some public pushback via press releases and statements from Regents/Prez/etc are one thing. "Go eff yourself" (or the PR equivalent of) is another. Plus, it's pretty clear at this point that while the U wants that alcohol revenue from premium seating back they aren't concerned enough about it to take on positions that are overly confrontational.

The U does have leverage but I don't think they have as much as you'd like to think. To do so they'd need public opinion on their side, but as you note, the rubes won't support this option and there was never a huge public show of support for the U's position the first few times this came up. But that's opinion and we're prob at "agree to disagree" on this one. :)
 

GoAUpher said:
Of course they'd prefer otherwise. The only thing that matters is if they'd actually stand in the way of a new stadium over this. Do you really think the NFL is going to get pissy about the short term revenue hit if it results in a long term stadium solution that dramatically increases the team's yearly revenue and solidifies their position in the market? Obviously they'd prefer a solution that avoids it, but when push comes to shove if a bill passes that puts the new stadium on the Dome set its a safe bet that the NFL signs off.
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+1. It's not like they're going to scuttle a new stadium after 15 years of trying over this, and there isn't any alternative. Target Field would be no better and probably need far more renovations to possibly work.
 



RodentRampage said:
Plus, the Vikings have the leverage to get the legislature to allow the U to set its own alcohol policy. Then everyone wins, there is alcohol and Vikings games, and the U gets to make its own decisions. You couldn't ask for a better opportunity than this, and it would be a mistake to throw it away.
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bingo. but with passive-aggressive maturi on the watch, i unfortunately fear for the worst when it comes to being a good negotiator on behalf of the U of M and the U of M athletic department. wish i had a better read on pres. kaler to know how he would potentially approach the subject and a willingness to smartly use it as a negotiating chip.
 

Ole said:
Mason's comments on the situation on KFAN last night were very interesting.
Basically he said the U and more specifically the Gophers Football program better have a tough negotiator and have a bare minimum list of demands and things they will not compromise on.
He mentioned how badly the Gophers were treated in the dome, how they were second class citizens not allowed to use the home locker room, or even have their own lockers, how they were always to cater to the Vikings and Twins needs, they had no say in it.

Then he mentioned how Illinois and Ron Turner struggled with the Bears being hosted in Champagne, how it was a factor in that program struggling during those years.

I took a few thoughts from that.
1) Joel Maturi cannot be allowed to negotiate ANYTHING with the NFL, he will be too spineless and flexible to them.
2)They should be allowed to use the facilities at an acceptable rental rate, with upgrades to the stadium paid for by the NFL, etc. Nothing over the top, but there should be no expectation the U will bend over backwards to accommodate or pay for any of it.
3)The money should go to the football program 1st, the athletics department 2nd, and the campus traffic/police 3rd, no general fund BS. The arts department gets no cut, the business department gets no cut, etc. This will be a hassle for the football team and the money collected from the rent needs to go the the programs it will affect, not spread out over the University to pad pockets and pay for research/staff/administration.
4)The NFL and the Vikings need to allow the football program as much positive press and access as possible to parlay this situation into recruiting and PR. shots of the stadium, discussion of the beautiful campus and building football program need to be weekly additions to the gameday descriptions.
5) The alcohol law needs to be changed to allow the regents to control it once again, like it was before. The law now may allow the NFL game to be served, but it does nothing to help out the U's situation in the suites.
6)Any damages, wear and tear, or issues with the stadium will be fixed and paid for by the Vikings when they move out, possibly including new turf/carpet in the locker rooms, etc.

The U has no obligation to help out the billionaire(possibly trillionaire?) NFL, hopefully they get good, tough negotiators who can make this work without an ugly situation brewing.
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all of the items you listed are items i would include too. i especially believe the one in bold (regarding alcohol sales or no alcohol sales only in premium seating during football, basketball and hockey) is one of extreme importance. the attractiveness and ability to sell premium seating by having alcohol sales as an option for premium seating holders in TCF Stadium, Williams arena and Mariucci Arena is of extreme importance to the U of M athletic department and U of M finances. they can not and will not be able to make their finances and debt management work unless the idiots at the legislature cede control of alcohol sales on campus back to the U of M regents like it used to be.

i honestly don't think some of the posters here who come off as ambivalent to this topic really understand or get just how this silly 11th hour on-campus alcohol sales law passed by the legislature back in 2009 has impacted and will impact the U of M's athletic finances and debt management abilities.
 

No adult beverages in campus stadiums - Ziggy will have to deal with it if he wants his stadium and our money to build it.
 

It the Vikes want improvements THEY pay for it!! TCF stadium is a stadium for College Football!!!

SCREW Ziggy!!! Wasn't Ziggy a cartoon character in the 70-80's?
 



Haugy#33 said:
It the Vikes want improvements THEY pay for it!! TCF stadium is a stadium for College Football!!!

SCREW Ziggy!!! Wasn't Ziggy a cartoon character in the 70-80's?
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Ziggy played guitar.
 

Parski1 said:
No adult beverages in campus stadiums - Ziggy will have to deal with it if he wants his stadium and our money to build it.
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you are fooling yourself if you think a NFL team might play 3 years in TCF without alcohol being sold.
 

scools12 said:
you are fooling yourself if you think a NFL team might play 3 years in TCF without alcohol being sold.
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sure, they can use the U's stadium and as part of that agreement alcohol can be sold to all vikings rubes. but imo, only if the idiotic pandering legislators at the capitol cede control and decision making of alcohol sales/distribution on campus back to the U of M regents how it was for years and years prior to 2009.
 

The U should stand firm on the alcohol issue, and get Ziggy to put some pressure on the legislature. If the Vikings want alcohol served at TCF, they have the means to persuade the legislature to restore control to the U.
 

RodentRampage said:
The U should stand firm on the alcohol issue, and get Ziggy to put some pressure on the legislature. If the Vikings want alcohol served at TCF, they have the means to persuade the legislature to restore control to the U.
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The political appointees on the Board of Regents are never going to stand in the way of beer being sold to every fan attending Vikings games at the Gophers Stadium. And they should finally come to their senses and start selling a legal product to Gopher football fans which is available every where in the world except at college sports events. This insanity has to end.
 


Go4Broke said:
The political appointees on the Board of Regents are never going to stand in the way of beer being sold to every fan attending Vikings games at the Gophers Stadium. And they should finally come to their senses and start selling a legal product to Gopher football fans which is available every where in the world except at college sports events. This insanity has to end.
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"Every where" [sic] in the world? Oh yeah? High school sporting events? Churches? Retail stores? Children's piano recitals? Auto mechanics? Etc., etc., etc. There are exponentially more places where it is illegal to sell alcohol than places where it is legal to sell. Your argument holds no water.
 

Go4Broke said:
The political appointees on the Board of Regents are never going to stand in the way of beer being sold to every fan attending Vikings games at the Gophers Stadium. And they should finally come to their senses and start selling a legal product to Gopher football fans which is available every where in the world except at college sports events. This insanity has to end.
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That is not true, and you know it is not true.

Beer is not available everywhere in the world. Beer is sold only at facilities that have liquor licenses. Institutions choose where and when they will sell beer. And the "legal product" argument has been thoroughly demolished. Just because it is a legal product doesn't mean it must be sold everywhere.

A few legal products not sold at TCF bank stadium:

Helicopters
Gyroscopes
Musk Ox sweaters
Granite counter tops
Tofurky
Bowling pins
Clown shoes
Electric toothbrushes

I could continue, if you want to continue with the "legal product" argument.
 

Sure, I say let the Vikings play in our stadium. They'll just have to MOVE THEIR GAMES TO THURSDAY OR FRIDAY NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Payback is an effin' bitch, n'est ce pas?!?!
 

RodentRampage said:
That is not true, and you know it is not true.

Beer is not available everywhere in the world. Beer is sold only at facilities that have liquor licenses. Institutions choose where and when they will sell beer. And the "legal product" argument has been thoroughly demolished. Just because it is a legal product doesn't mean it must be sold everywhere.

A few legal products not sold at TCF bank stadium:

Helicopters
Gyroscopes
Musk Ox sweaters
Granite counter tops
Tofurky
Bowling pins
Clown shoes
Electric toothbrushes

I could continue, if you want to continue with the "legal product" argument.
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These are Bart Bienema's road game shoes...
When he comes to the Bank, or the Rose Bowl, they are NOT for sale.

clown_red.jpg
 

RodentRampage said:
A few legal products not sold at TCF bank stadium:

Helicopters
Gyroscopes
Musk Ox sweaters
Granite counter tops
Tofurky
Bowling pins
Clown shoes
Electric toothbrushes

I could continue, if you want to continue with the "legal product" argument.
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You make some good points here, Rodent. However, it has always been my understanding that it is better to sell products that customers are likely to purchase. But I could be wrong about this. Maybe we should have Carlson marketing students weigh in on this issue. The question for them is:

Which product will make the U the most money at Gopher football games - Clown Shoes or Beer?
 

Go4Broke said:
You make some good points here, Rodent. However, it has always been my understanding that it is better to sell products that customers are likely to purchase. But I could be wrong about this. Maybe we should have Carlson marketing students weigh on this issue. The question for them is:

Which product will make the U the most money at Gopher football games - Clown Shoes or Beer?
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So you're shifting your argument from "beer is sold everywhere" to "beer would be more likely to sell at TCF than clown shoes"?
 

I contend if you allow beer sales at TCF, clown shoe sales would pick up.
 

This is simply not entirely true.
Yea that's the policy.


If the league told the Vikings that they couldn't move they could move anyways (see al Davis).
short ornery norwegian said:
Any relocation of a franchise must be approved by a vote of the owners - I think the vote must be at least two-thirds or three-fourths in favor in order to allow a relocation.

Now, if the Vikes formally requested permission, I'd say the odds are fairly good that they would receive the necessary votes, but it's not an iron-clad guarantee.

If the Vikes leave, the Gophs might pick up a few fans - but I don't think it would be that many. The Vikes fans are a very different sub-set of fans than the Gophers - Vikes fans skew a little younger - and are more into the "party" aspects of attending a game (i.e. getting sh**-faced drunk.) If the Vikes leave, I'd bet that the vast majority of Vikes fans will be watching the NFL on Sunday Ticket, playing fantasy football, and drinking - NOT attending Gopher FB games.
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howeda7 said:
It's different with the NFL and MLB than it is for the NBA and NHL. The Oklahoma City Thunder are great and the city loves them. But they could never support an NFL team there. So yes, there are a lot of growing cities in those regions, but there really aren't any that are big enough to host an NFL team. Maybe Portland or Vegas, but they're borderline and certainly not preferable to MSP.
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The NFL brand is the only pro sport that doesn't require a larger market to be successful.
Oklahoma city supporting and NBA team is more of a stretch than an NFL team. The difference being I don't think they've expressed interest in an NFL team and they openly courted NBA teams.
 

RodentRampage said:
That is not true, and you know it is not true.

Beer is not available everywhere in the world. Beer is sold only at facilities that have liquor licenses. Institutions choose where and when they will sell beer. And the "legal product" argument has been thoroughly demolished. Just because it is a legal product doesn't mean it must be sold everywhere.

A few legal products not sold at TCF bank stadium:

Helicopters
Gyroscopes
Musk Ox sweaters
Granite counter tops
Tofurky
Bowling pins
Clown shoes
Electric toothbrushes

I could continue, if you want to continue with the "legal product" argument.
Click to expand...

I'm all for tofurtky, clown shoes and electric toothbrushes to be sold at TCF. Maybe we can lease the concourse to Walmart during the Vikings games so that fans could go shopping on the way home. Sur tax on any Food and Beverage for using our stadium -- 10%.
 

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