Grasping at Straws

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Rosemountian

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First let me say this. I am in the camp where Brewster has to show something serious by the end of the year to maintain employment. I don't care if you want to talk recruiting or X's and O's, but to me, what is important is this: Product on the field.
I would hope that it is most important for everyone.

To this point in his career Brewster has been underwhelming. We fired Mason to take a step forward, and while I wouldn't say we have taken a step back, I would say we are on the same step with the wood rotting beneath us. I am not going into why I believe Brewster is not the answer, because it is not relevant to this thread.

Secondly, I am the most anti-Weber guy you will see. I think he has been below average to horrible at times since his freshman year and never better than average. I am of the belief that he was never a good QB in any system, but merely below average. I have accredited his all big ten honors to bad QB play in the rest of the conference, not good play on his part.


Now let me get to my point: we are all grasping at straws on both of them. First let me talk about the QB.

Regardless of what you want to say, the facts are these: Weber played one of his best games of his career today. If you catch half of the 5-7 drops maybe more of you would agree with me. His mistakes today were bad, that INT was terrible (one of his worst), but it did not cost the team anything. The throw to McKnight was possibly the best of his career. I know people want to rip Weber for today's performance, but QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS. He played fairly well today. He executed the game plan and gave the team a chance to win. There is plenty to rip Weber for, today's performance is not one of the things to rip him for.


On Brewster:
I have my gripes with Brew. I am thinking he is most likely NOT the guy. But today was not poorly coached. Today was well coached.

1) Gameplan: Great gameplan today on both sides of the ball. They ran the ball (which people hate) to shorten the game. They were badly outmatched on both sides of the ball, so a short game benefits them. While everyone is complaining they didn't throw enough, they fail to realize that the team managed to have the lead late in the third quarter executing this gameplan. On defense they mixed the blitzes and the coverages well. They improved greatly from last week on the most important thing (alignment) they didn't have any blown coverages today. They did get caught in a blitz and get beat deep on a play, but that is going to happen when you are outmatched. If you didn't know coming in that USC was going to bust a couple of plays, you were not thinking clearly. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS. Plenty to rip Brew for, not today's gameplan. Everyone wants to rip on a game plan that had us up late in the 3rd and within 1 possession for much of the 4th.

2) Kicking game. Again, good gameplan. We are kicking away from their best playmaker. At times it was improperly executed. The Kicker kicked it out of bounds, okay that is bad, but it is better than kicking it to their best player. They return one for a TD, but it wasn't to their stud, that is on the kickoff team, not Brewster. The ball bounces and hits our Punt return blocker, it is a bad bounce, not bad coaching. The punts are going 19 yards, but they are not being returned by one of the best returners in the country. Though at times the kicking teams did not execute, they were not poorly coached today. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.

3) Penalties. 12 men in the huddle "BAD COACHING." Wrong. Clearly you have never coached and do not realize these are college kids. A coach yells a package you've been working on all week and the wrong guy runs into the huddle. Bad coaching right? Wrong, dumb college kid that had a mental lapse. I am sure Brewster was planning all week on having a 12th guy in the huddle. It happens (see the Vikings or any High School game) QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.
The facemask, "How can you not teach them to not do that." Well I wasn't at practice, but I can tell you with 100% certainty he did not tell his guys to grab the facemask. QUIT GRASPING

4) Clock management. Running the clock down, taking timeout, then passing. You all say dumb, but coaches say smart. 3rd and long, may not get it. Run the clock down so they have less time, throw because a first down ends the half or gives you a chance to score. A run, they call timeout and you punt anyways. So throw. Throw is picked, not the coaches fault.
On running the clock out at the end. Think about Dallas v Washington, or MN vs Northwestern (2009). Running the clock out is the right thing to do there (especially after Weber's previous throw). I will give you that first down should have been a run rather than a knee, but it should not have been a throw. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.

5) On Hageman not playing, perhaps if he is the 3rd DT on the depth chart right now it is possible that he is not as good as the other DTs. It is possible that the staff is playing their best guys in an effort to win and save their job. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.



There are many things to rip Brewster and the staff for. Today hardly included them.
There are many things to rip Weber for, other than the pick that cost us nothing, Today did not include any of them.

There are times that you are playing a team that is better than you. Sometimes you lose. Today that happened. Lets quit grasping at straws and actually talk about things rationally. There are plenty of things to rip on the two for. There are things to rip on for the team today, coaching and QB play are not things to rip on. Execution on the kickoff team, execution by the kickers and punters, dropped passes. But not coaching or QB play.
 

Rosemountain----very good synopsis

A couple of big plays(KO return and facemask penalty) really hurt but this game was won/lost at the line of scrimage.

.......................... USC MN
NET YARDS RUSHING 216 83
Rushing Attempts 38 37
Average Per Rush 5.7 2.2
Rushing Touchdowns 2 1
Yards Gained Rushing 233 111
Yards Lost Rushing 17 28

Edit: Complete stats.
http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArt...280&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=8400&ATCLID=204996865
 

The LOS was lost because USC was bigger and stronger at virtually every position on the field. The only guys on the MN team that would compete for playing time on USC are Gray and McKnight (who would compete for time at receiver). USC had MN outgunned in every aspect of the game. Good coaching allowed this team to be very much in the game late in the 3rd and just a few lucky breaks away from victory. Take away that long rush (that occurred on the drive of the facemask...I.E. wouldn't have occurred had they punted) and the stats are still lopsided, but not nearly as much.

The fact is that Weber and the staff got the team in position to have a chance in the 2nd half. The staff should be indicted for being so outgunned, not for their strategy or in-game coaching. At least not today.

The point was not that we out played them, the point was that people are looking for reasons to rip on people. And they are grasping at straws to find them. There is not much in-game to rip on the staff for. Other than the pick that cost the team nothing, there wasn't a ton to rip Weber for.
 

[QUOTE=Rosemountian;262123]The LOS was lost because USC was bigger and stronger at virtually every position on the field. The only guys on the MN team that would compete for playing time on USC are Gray and McKnight (who would compete for time at receiver). USC had MN outgunned in every aspect of the game. Good coaching allowed this team to be very much in the game late in the 3rd and just a few lucky breaks away from victory. Take away that long rush (that occurred on the drive of the facemask...I.E. wouldn't have occurred had they punted) and the stats are still lopsided, but not nearly as much.

The fact is that Weber and the staff got the team in position to have a chance in the 2nd half. The staff should be indicted for being so outgunned, not for their strategy or in-game coaching. At least not today.

The point was not that we out played them, the point was that people are looking for reasons to rip on people. And they are grasping at straws to find them. There is not much in-game to rip on the staff for. Other than the pick that cost the team nothing, there wasn't a ton to rip Weber for.[/QUOTE]

Got your point, hope you got mine.

Line of scrimmage=Bold
 

I actually 100% agree with Rosemountain. I am completely in the camp that barring something drastic BRew needs to go and i'm very critical of Weber, but this game was on neither of them.

I will "grasp at straws" and be nit picky on your post in that I think a lot of those drops were behind the receivers. The one to grey would have been a really good catch. Granted, Weber was rushed on that throw, but you can't expect a WR coming off his break to catch a ball on his back hip. Either way, it was a nice game for Adam Weber today and he's actually played well this season.
 


Rosemountian said:
4) Clock management. Running the clock down, taking timeout, then passing. You all say dumb, but coaches say smart. 3rd and long, may not get it. Run the clock down so they have less time, throw because a first down ends the half or gives you a chance to score. A run, they call timeout and you punt anyways. So throw. Throw is picked, not the coaches fault.
On running the clock out at the end. Think about Dallas v Washington, or MN vs Northwestern (2009). Running the clock out is the right thing to do there (especially after Weber's previous throw). I will give you that first down should have been a run rather than a knee, but it should not have been a throw. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.
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100% agree. The booing at this point was shameful and utterly stupid. I was trying to explain why what we did made sense to some around me to no avail. We were down 13-7 and had played our best half of the year and the crowd is booing lustily. Just stupid.
 

Wasn't a big fan of the knee right there. Conservative plays to see if you can move into field goal position sure, but I think you've got to be trying to make a little something happen.

But you know that's just philosophy, and just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong.
 

Even though we lost, I thought the game went better than expected. Take away the kick off return and we're till in the mix late in the game. That really stole the momentum from McKnight's touchdown.
 

Bigger, faster, stronger

People like to use this as an excuse in why we lose. I Understand what people are trying to say but great coaches lead their teams to victories over teams despite those odds. When you look at Brewster he accomplished this feat twice. We beat Northwestern and MSU last year. Those two teams were better then the U but it was not a huge mismatch. We are now in our 4th year and we have only won two games against superior opponents.

Coach Fitz is 3-0 when Northwestern is playing in Iowa. Purdue's coach beat OSU in his first year. Somewhere along the line you have to stop using that excuse. Good coaches find a way to get it done and Brewster has not.
 



gold04 said:
People like to use this as an excuse in why we lose. I Understand what people are trying to say but great coaches lead their teams to victories over teams despite those odds. When you look at Brewster he accomplished this feat twice. We beat Northwestern and MSU last year. Those two teams were better then the U but it was not a huge mismatch. We are now in our 4th year and we have only won two games against superior opponents.

Coach Fitz is 3-0 when Northwestern is playing in Iowa. Purdue's coach beat OSU in his first year. Somewhere along the line you have to stop using that excuse. Good coaches find a way to get it done and Brewster has not.
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yeah but not with freshmen and sophs.

Every style of play creates weird mismatches. I don't think it really means anything that fitz has success against Iowa.

So we haven't got lucky. Purdue's program isn't better because they got lucky once, it's not repeatable.
 

station19 said:
[
The fact is that Weber and the staff got the team in position to have a chance in the 2nd half. The staff should be indicted for being so outgunned, not for their strategy or in-game coaching. At least not today.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to indict the MN coaching staff for not having players of similar quality to USC or any of the other perennial powerhouse programs. It will take a long track record of success to be able to recruit at the same level as them.

I thought the Gophs did well for the most part, but when there was a breakdown in the defense, like on the long rushing TD, the physical disparity was easy to see. USC's running back kicked it into a higher gear and ran through our secondary with ease. There was no chance our safeties or LB's would be able to catch him. Same with the kickoff return. Once the KR made it into the backfield he was off to the races.

Good original post!
 

I sit behind the visitor's bench. USC did not have one player who looked like an underclassmen. Looking at the other teams that come to the stadium. there is always a group of players that look like they will not be playing today. This was not the case, today. To get to USC level, we need to have mostly juniors and seniors on the field. Most of our players are needing a couple of more years. We are playing pure freshman. If we allow the staff the time, I think in 2012 we will have a great year.
 

I don't necessarily think that your synopsis is incorrect or wrong, but have a different opinion and would like to point out that Boise State, in every game against a BCS school, is very outmanned and outgunned at nearly every position, just like the Gophers. But instead of taking their chances that they can "shorten the game" to win, or that maybe they'll win just on pure luck (which both can be done, but IMO give you very little room for error), Peterson tries to open up the game, bring everything at the other team, run HIS gameplan, and see if others can match up (similar to what South Dakota did). Taking some chances, from my experience, seems to be more successful than playing conservatively in hopes that you have far fewer errors than the team with better athletes.
 



1st $ 10 on your own 35 with a minute & a half left & you knee it...

You're pretty much telling people you're just happy to go into the half only down 6. Have some balls Brew, run some plays...the worst thing that can happen is you give USC the ball back with very little time to do anything....

I understand the booing...you want to see 60 minutes of Football...
 




thailleagle said:
1st $ 10 on your own 35 with a minute & a half left & you knee it...

You're pretty much telling people you're just happy to go into the half only down 6. Have some balls Brew, run some plays...the worst thing that can happen is you give USC the ball back with very little time to do anything....

I understand the booing...you want to see 60 minutes of Football...
Click to expand...

We kneed it with 20 seconds left after the INT after Weber's ridiculous INT. They DID NOT take a knee previous to that. In fact, Weber threw the INT.
 


Problem with the gameplan: Running the ball, eating time and running the clock is a great strategy. But the reality is, we couldn't do it. Period. So, when 9 are in the box on D, mix it up and pass the ball- Take what the defense give you!! Then you can come back to the run gradually-consistency does no one any good if what you do is ineffective. Every plan has to flex and adapt-ours did not. So we lost. I must respectfully disagree with your analysis that the gameplan. It was well conceived but did not flex to take advantage of the opptys granted us by the USC Defense.
 

Rosemountian said:
1) Gameplan: Great gameplan today on both sides of the ball. They ran the ball (which people hate) to shorten the game. They were badly outmatched on both sides of the ball, so a short game benefits them. While everyone is complaining they didn't throw enough, they fail to realize that the team managed to have the lead late in the third quarter executing this gameplan. On defense they mixed the blitzes and the coverages well. They improved greatly from last week on the most important thing (alignment) they didn't have any blown coverages today. They did get caught in a blitz and get beat deep on a play, but that is going to happen when you are outmatched. If you didn't know coming in that USC was going to bust a couple of plays, you were not thinking clearly. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS. Plenty to rip Brew for, not today's gameplan. Everyone wants to rip on a game plan that had us up late in the 3rd and within 1 possession for much of the 4th.
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Grasping at straws? You're criteria for a "great gameplan" is having a lead in the third. I could agree that the gameplan would successful had we had a lead late in the fourth before USC busted a big play or something, but a lead for ten seconds in the third? If you want to look at it a different way, this gameplan got us into a game that required a junk touchdown to keep the score somewhat respectable.

And I love a ball control game. I really do. But the stubborn refusal to change it yesterday was what upset me. We weren't running the ball well. Period. We averaged 2 yards per rush. Yet we stuck with the run, and just about the same runs, out of the same formations, over and over. First down, pound a run up the middle. Second down, the same. It set us up for consistent thirds and long. That's not a good gameplan, that's a coach being horribly stubborn and refusing to at least try something different.

That's not even to mention that USC stacked the box. 8-9 in the box every first and second down, yet we still ran it right into the heart of the defense. For little gains. They cram 9 in the box, and we don't try one first down play action pass. Don't try to loosen the up at all. Don't try to exploit the fact that they have two defenders more than four yards off the line of scrimmage. I can't agree that's a good gameplan. That's just stubborn.
 

We should petition the NCAA to give us the win. The game was well-called (for Brewster). We were outmanned at every position and we did the best we could. So, really, we didn't lose. If we can beat NIU -- or at least put forth our best effort like we did yesterday -- we will end the nonconference season 3-1 or, if you want to count the USD loss as a fluke, 4-0 -- which is better than any of us expected.

We are already half way to a January bowl game!
 

You are grasping for straws when you say Northwesterns style of play is the only reason why they beat Iowa. I suppose Purdue beat OSU last year because of their style of play. Listen Brewster has show an inability to win big games. We are in our fourth year and still no big wins. If we can't beat anyone good this year it's time for Brewster to go.
 

zman said:
I read the Strib this AM and Brewster implied as much as well with one particular quote.
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Why? Because he was out of position? Because he couldn't remember what he was supposed to do if the return man got past the rest of the team? really?? [sarcasm alert] Shouldn't we support our players? :rolleyes: [/sarcasm]
 

Maybe because the kick had a hang time of about one second and got no more than 10 feet off the ground? [Sarcasm alert]
 

Rosemountian said:
First let me say this. I am in the camp where Brewster has to show something serious by the end of the year to maintain employment. I don't care if you want to talk recruiting or X's and O's, but to me, what is important is this: Product on the field.
I would hope that it is most important for everyone.

To this point in his career Brewster has been underwhelming. We fired Mason to take a step forward, and while I wouldn't say we have taken a step back, I would say we are on the same step with the wood rotting beneath us. I am not going into why I believe Brewster is not the answer, because it is not relevant to this thread.

Secondly, I am the most anti-Weber guy you will see. I think he has been below average to horrible at times since his freshman year and never better than average. I am of the belief that he was never a good QB in any system, but merely below average. I have accredited his all big ten honors to bad QB play in the rest of the conference, not good play on his part.


Now let me get to my point: we are all grasping at straws on both of them. First let me talk about the QB.

Regardless of what you want to say, the facts are these: Weber played one of his best games of his career today. If you catch half of the 5-7 drops maybe more of you would agree with me. His mistakes today were bad, that INT was terrible (one of his worst), but it did not cost the team anything. The throw to McKnight was possibly the best of his career. I know people want to rip Weber for today's performance, but QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS. He played fairly well today. He executed the game plan and gave the team a chance to win. There is plenty to rip Weber for, today's performance is not one of the things to rip him for.


On Brewster:
I have my gripes with Brew. I am thinking he is most likely NOT the guy. But today was not poorly coached. Today was well coached.

1) Gameplan: Great gameplan today on both sides of the ball. They ran the ball (which people hate) to shorten the game. They were badly outmatched on both sides of the ball, so a short game benefits them. While everyone is complaining they didn't throw enough, they fail to realize that the team managed to have the lead late in the third quarter executing this gameplan. On defense they mixed the blitzes and the coverages well. They improved greatly from last week on the most important thing (alignment) they didn't have any blown coverages today. They did get caught in a blitz and get beat deep on a play, but that is going to happen when you are outmatched. If you didn't know coming in that USC was going to bust a couple of plays, you were not thinking clearly. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS. Plenty to rip Brew for, not today's gameplan. Everyone wants to rip on a game plan that had us up late in the 3rd and within 1 possession for much of the 4th.

2) Kicking game. Again, good gameplan. We are kicking away from their best playmaker. At times it was improperly executed. The Kicker kicked it out of bounds, okay that is bad, but it is better than kicking it to their best player. They return one for a TD, but it wasn't to their stud, that is on the kickoff team, not Brewster. The ball bounces and hits our Punt return blocker, it is a bad bounce, not bad coaching. The punts are going 19 yards, but they are not being returned by one of the best returners in the country. Though at times the kicking teams did not execute, they were not poorly coached today. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.

3) Penalties. 12 men in the huddle "BAD COACHING." Wrong. Clearly you have never coached and do not realize these are college kids. A coach yells a package you've been working on all week and the wrong guy runs into the huddle. Bad coaching right? Wrong, dumb college kid that had a mental lapse. I am sure Brewster was planning all week on having a 12th guy in the huddle. It happens (see the Vikings or any High School game) QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.
The facemask, "How can you not teach them to not do that." Well I wasn't at practice, but I can tell you with 100% certainty he did not tell his guys to grab the facemask. QUIT GRASPING

4) Clock management. Running the clock down, taking timeout, then passing. You all say dumb, but coaches say smart. 3rd and long, may not get it. Run the clock down so they have less time, throw because a first down ends the half or gives you a chance to score. A run, they call timeout and you punt anyways. So throw. Throw is picked, not the coaches fault.
On running the clock out at the end. Think about Dallas v Washington, or MN vs Northwestern (2009). Running the clock out is the right thing to do there (especially after Weber's previous throw). I will give you that first down should have been a run rather than a knee, but it should not have been a throw. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.

5) On Hageman not playing, perhaps if he is the 3rd DT on the depth chart right now it is possible that he is not as good as the other DTs. It is possible that the staff is playing their best guys in an effort to win and save their job. QUIT GRASPING AT STRAWS.



There are many things to rip Brewster and the staff for. Today hardly included them.
There are many things to rip Weber for, other than the pick that cost us nothing, Today did not include any of them.

There are times that you are playing a team that is better than you. Sometimes you lose. Today that happened. Lets quit grasping at straws and actually talk about things rationally. There are plenty of things to rip on the two for. There are things to rip on for the team today, coaching and QB play are not things to rip on. Execution on the kickoff team, execution by the kickers and punters, dropped passes. But not coaching or QB play.
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Couldn't agree more. While IMO they should have run maybe a little more to the outside to keep the D honest, or mixed in a couple (small number) of passes on first down, the gameplan kept us in it longer than we deserved.

However, this game clearly defined why Brewster should be gone. He was brought in to upgrade the talent through recruiting. Even if you think he is a bad coach, since we have not seen an upgrade in the talent, (other than Gray) Brew's time has run out. This game proved how far we are away talent-wise from a USC squad that is a shell athletically from their teams that won the Pac-10.
 

thailleagle said:
1st $ 10 on your own 35 with a minute & a half left & you knee it...

You're pretty much telling people you're just happy to go into the half only down 6. Have some balls Brew, run some plays...the worst thing that can happen is you give USC the ball back with very little time to do anything....

I understand the booing...you want to see 60 minutes of Football...
Click to expand...

If we throw the ball some there and Weber throws a pick or we go three and out and USC gets the ball back, I guarantee you would have been on here saying how stupid of a move it was.
 

GophersInIowa said:
If we throw the ball some there and Weber throws a pick or we go three and out and USC gets the ball back, I guarantee you would have been on here saying how stupid of a move it was.
Click to expand...

I would have at least liked to try something downfield on third down. If we throw a pick, is it really that much different than a punt? At that point, with that amount of time on the clock, I think the Gophs were the only team with a somewhat reasonable chance to put points on the board before the half.
 

Looking at the game again on DVR today, the core of the D-line was huffing and puffing in the 3rd and 4th quarters, but their coaches didn't send anyone in for relief. You can't wait for tired guys to take themselves out. Most won't do it. I thought there was better balance today than last week, but if I knew Jewhan Edwards was about to passout, I'm sure Matt Barkley could see that as well.
 

cncmin said:
would like to point out that Boise State, in every game against a BCS school, is very outmanned and outgunned at nearly every position
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What the hell are you talking about?
 

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