All Things Gopher Players Appeals Process

[Bad Gopher]

Coyle's future is tied to the success of PJ Fleck. If the program beats Iowa and Wisconsin and wins the Big Ten west Coyle's legacy is preserved. Just win baby. Seriously.

Of course, that's what we said about Maturi and Brewster.

 

[bizzle22]

I'm not a Coyle fan. But, I assume the guy has some positive qualities, because he keeps getting hired for jobs. I can only go on what I'very witnessed here in MN. The Wrestling situation was a mess Coyle inherited, and I suspect he did the only thing he could. J cooked his own goose on that deal.

But, on the FB situation, it has been one mess after another.
1. Coyle claims Claeys took the lead on suspending players. Misleading.
2. Coyle meets with players - won't answer questions. G. Elmore says Coyle'S handling of meeting was a major factor in the decision to boycott.
3. Coyle was largely absent during crisis. AD should be out front -not hiding.
4. At Press conference firing Claeys, Coyle took unnecessary shots at FB program.

I don't recall Coyle ever saying Claeys took the lead on the suspensions. He always said that he and Claeys talked ("decision was made in consultation with coach Claeys" or whatever the quote is), and that Claeys agreed with them. I don't recall him ever saying Claeys took the lead on them. And In his radio interview with Mike Max the day after he was fired Claeys said he told Coyle he "understood why" the players had to be suspended.

 

[hungan1]

What is bothersome about these sexual assault cases is it seems like Miss Hewitt and her board were laser focused on the ten black football athletes with a McCarthyist like agenda to single-handedly change the "culture" of football athletes. They are willing to unfairly trample on their rights. I hope I am wrong.

Five of student athletes directly involved at the epicenter face expulsion and probably will.

The accused where not given the same due process rights as the accuser. She had an attorney present, but not the student athletes.etc...

There was a party at a student apartment where the alleged event(s) took place. How many other male and female students were present at the party who were not football players?

If so, how thorough was the investigation and inquisition? Did they include these other students in their widening investigative net?

These other students that were at the party outside of the room where the alleged "rape" event (by silent consent) took place, were they also put on suspensions/probations for knowing about the event and not reporting it or stepping in to stop the alleged sexual assault? Did they check all of their smart phones and social media posting too?

If there where others present and where not found guilty by the same standards given to the athletes, this will be tantamount IMHO to a purposeful public lynching of ten young black football athletes. Their mugs were posted in the media.

This may be just the beginning of a legal firestorm.

This extra-judicial kangaroo court is the equivalent of a communist system of justice or even worst.

Hopefully, it will be revamped so that there is a true fair due process. The sexual assault victims must be protected. That is unquestionable.

Lives can be ruined by someone pointing an accusatory finger without a right to defend oneself fairly.

We'll have to see if the process is "tweaked" in the next few days. They have one more appeal to the prevost (is she the "silent consent" lady)? Then on to lawsuits.

Mark Coyle talks about changing student athletes culture. Jerry Kill was upset in the insinuations of his public statements. When Jerry Kill took over, the players all attended classes, got tutoring when need, and did lots of volunteering with social causes. He did a lot to change the culture for the good.

I think an even bigger change at the U is needed. The administrative "culture" has to change.

What a fine mess you have members of the BOR, Mr. Kaler and Mr. Coyle.

 

[Maverick]

What is bothersome about these sexual assault cases is it seems like Miss Hewitt and her board were laser focused on the ten black football athletes with a McCarthyist like agenda to single-handedly change the "culture" of football athletes. They are willing to unfairly trample on their rights. I hope I am wrong.

Five of student athletes directly involved at the epicenter face expulsion and probably will.

The accused where not given the same due process rights as the accuser. She had an attorney present, but not the student athletes.etc...

There was a party at a student apartment where the alleged event(s) took place. How many other male and female students were present at the party who were not football players?

If so, how thorough was the investigation and inquisition? Did they include these other students in their widening investigative net?

These other students that were at the party outside of the room where the alleged "rape" event (by silent consent) took place, were they also put on suspensions/probations for knowing about the event and not reporting it or stepping in to stop the alleged sexual assault? Did they check all of their smart phones and social media posting too?

If there where others present and where not found guilty by the same standards given to the athletes, this will be tantamount IMHO to a purposeful public lynching of twelve young black football athletes. Their mugs were posted in the media.

This may be just the beginning of a legal firestorm.

This extra-judicial kangaroo court is the equivalent of a communist system of justice or even worst.

Hopefully, it will be revamped so that there is a true fair due process. The sexual assault victims must be protected. That is unquestionable.

Lives can be ruined by someone pointing an accusatory finger without a right to defend oneself fairly.

We'll have to see if the process is "tweaked" in the next few days. They have one more appeal to the prevost (is she the "silent consent" lady)? Then on to lawsuits.

Mark Coyle talks about changing student athletes culture. Jerry Kill was upset in the insinuations of his public statements. When Jerry Kill took over, the players all attended classes, got tutoring when need, and did lots of volunteering with social causes. He did a lot to change the culture for the good.

I think an even bigger change at the U is needed. The administrative "culture" has to change.

What a fine mess you have members of the BOR, Mr. Kaler and Mr. Coyle.

Agree 100%

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Yeah, it sounds like Jerry talked to the guys regarding the EOAA (based solely on Well's tweet and I may be reading into it) and probably warned them they had big targets on their backs and to keep it on the straight and narrow. This is probably just one of the issues that poisoned the water between Jerry and Kaler and led to his leaving the U and lack of subsequent job offer. Jerry and Kaler are oil and water. Actually most decent people would be.

 

[caliGopher]

Two different types of due process out there. In plain English it is either the preponderance of the evidence or overwhelming evidence. In the hearings, evidence only needs to meet the minimum standard. Not even one time did the President of the U or the AD ever use words that conveyed that they believe it was rape. Not once. And, I dare anyone to provide the quotes that support that they did.

If I get fired for standing up for victims of sexual violence, then so be it. - Eric Kaler

Vicitm = sexual assault occurred. Report indicates that intercourse took place. if A = B and B= C then A = C he indicated all 10 players were guilty of rape. It may not have been what he meant, but it is what he said.

Took my 2 minutes to find this. There are more quotes that live in other places. So welcome to the conversation Dean. These have been posted ad nauseam. I expect you'll make some excuse that it is not what he said or what he meant, but it is verbatim from the press. The context was in report to the push back he's facing from some who believe that if he TRULY was supporting an alleged Victim of Sexual Assault, the original 5 never would have been reinstated. A culture change is in order, at you don't change culture unless you start at the top. Kaler is the man who brought us Norwood Teague and now Mark Coyle. And for those willing to give Coyle a break, here's my challenge to you -- Compare and contrast how he handled the wrestling issues to the football situation. In one, he looked like a somewhat competent AD. In the other, he was a total baboon and contributed to making things worse, much, much worse. Again, all of this ends if he'd only had the courage, apparently, to stand up to Tracy Claeys.

 

[Atl Gopher]

If I get fired for standing up for victims of sexual violence, then so be it.

Then let it be that actually does happen. Not for standing up for victims of sexual violence, but for.................

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Two different types of due process out there. In plain English it is either the preponderance of the evidence or overwhelming evidence. In the hearings, evidence only needs to meet the minimum standard. Not even one time did the President of the U or the AD ever use words that conveyed that they believe it was rape. Not once. And, I dare anyone to provide the quotes that support that they did.

This entire paragraph doesn't make any sense. You have a bunch of sentences that have nothing to do with each other.

You seem to be wanting to talk about the evidentiary standards. There are definitely more than 2. For civil cases, we use two difference standards, preponderance of the evidence (but a real preponderance of the evidence, not this gimmick) and clear and convincing. The evidentiary standard to make an arrest is probable cause. The evidentiary standard to criminally convict is beyond a reasonable doubt.

Here is a breakdown of the different evidentiary standards:

(1) Reasonable Suspicion - - This is the standard needed for police to stop someone, to frisk someone. It is the lowest standard. The suspicion must arise from specific facts and rationale inferences from those facts.

(2) Probable Cause - - This is the standard used for arrests, warrants, bringing charges (Grand Jury). They have a hard time defining this one, but generally, it's "in looking at this, in the totality of circumstances, would a prudent and cautious person believe that a crime had been committed."

(3) Preponderance of the Evidence - - This is the standard used in most civil cases. It simple means "more likely than not". If you notice, the difference between Probable Cause and Preponderance of Evidence is really small. Courts have had a really hard time with this.

(4) Clear and Convincing - - Here is the actual definition - - "a party has the burden of proving any claim or defense by clear and convincing evidence, it means that the party must present evidence that leaves you with a firm belief or conviction that it is highly probable that the factual contentions of the claim or defense are true".

(5) Beyond a Reasonable Doubt - - This is needed in order to get a conviction (not to bring charges, that was an outright lie). We all know this one.


So, if you are arrested without PC - - - due process violation.
If you are stopped and frisked for no reason - - - due process violation.
There are countless other scenarios.

Additionally, there are due process violations that have NOTHING to do with evidentiary standards.

 

[rugger14]

An interesting website that talks specifically about the different aspects of student conduct and due process:

https://www.thefire.org/fire-guides/fires-guide-to-due-process-and-campus-justice/fires-guide-to-due-process-and-fair-procedure-on-campus-full-text/#__RefHeading__2500_2127946742

 

[Ewert86PC]

Yeah, it sounds like Jerry talked to the guys regarding the EOAA (based solely on Well's tweet and I may be reading into it) and probably warned them they had big targets on their backs and to keep it on the straight and narrow. This is probably just one of the issues that poisoned the water between Jerry and Kaler and led to his leaving the U and lack of subsequent job offer. Jerry and Kaler are oil and water. Actually most decent people would be.

Y'know, this is the thing that swayed me over to being okay with the firing of Claeys. If Kill tells the players that they have huge behavioral targets on their backs, didn't Claeys hear this message, too? He had to have heard the message and not impressed it's importance enough to the players. Especially before the first game of the season, which is when the incident in question occurred.

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[Pompous Elitist]

An interesting website that talks specifically about the different aspects of student conduct and due process:

https://www.thefire.org/fire-guides/fires-guide-to-due-process-and-campus-justice/fires-guide-to-due-process-and-fair-procedure-on-campus-full-text/#__RefHeading__2500_2127946742

From the very good link and relevant to the gopher 10:

Relatedly, success in a “probable cause” hearing conducted by the criminal justice system may help you earn an acquittal in the campus proceeding. A probable cause hearing is a preliminary proceeding conducted prior to the bringing of a formal charge on which one then would stand trial. If “probable cause” is found, you are then formally charged and put to trial. If the prosecution is unable to prove that they have probable cause to try you, the failure to meet even this very low standard should signal to the campus tribunal that its case against you is likewise too weak to proceed to a hearing on the merits of the charge. Where no probable cause to proceed is found by the criminal justice system, the university cannot credibly argue that it can find you guilty, even under the comparable (and arguably higher) “preponderance of the evidence” standard discussed in greater detail below.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Y'know, this is the thing that swayed me overy to being okay with the firing of Claeys. If Kill tells the players that they have huge behavioral targets on their backs, didn't Claeys hear this message, too? He had to have heard the message and not impressed it's importance enough to the players. Especially before the first game of the season, which is when the incident in question occurred.

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Hard to know what Claeys did or didn't say. Some people will do dumb things no matter who's in charge. How common is it for a coach to be fired for acts that have not been proven to occur?

Is there an unreasonable standard of responsibility set? Imagine if a teacher, professor, manager, CEO were held responsible for any alleged act of their student or employees. We've had some pompous individuals come on here and say things like I would never hire Mitch or any of these players in my company. Well, what if one of your employees is accused of a serious crime? Do you censure yourself, fire their manager? I'm being a bit facetious because I think at times we jump on coaches that have only limited control of their players lives. If there is a repeating pattern of behavior outside expected norms, or the coach turns a blind eye e.g. Baylor, then that's another animal altogether.

 

[gopherlaney]

What is bothersome about these sexual assault cases is it seems like Miss Hewitt and her board were laser focused on the ten black football athletes with a McCarthyist like agenda to single-handedly change the "culture" of football athletes. They are willing to unfairly trample on their rights. I hope I am wrong.

Five of student athletes directly involved at the epicenter face expulsion and probably will.

The accused where not given the same due process rights as the accuser. She had an attorney present, but not the student athletes.etc...

There was a party at a student apartment where the alleged event(s) took place. How many other male and female students were present at the party who were not football players?

If so, how thorough was the investigation and inquisition? Did they include these other students in their widening investigative net?

These other students that were at the party outside of the room where the alleged "rape" event (by silent consent) took place, were they also put on suspensions/probations for knowing about the event and not reporting it or stepping in to stop the alleged sexual assault? Did they check all of their smart phones and social media posting too?

If there where others present and where not found guilty by the same standards given to the athletes, this will be tantamount IMHO to a purposeful public lynching of ten young black football athletes. Their mugs were posted in the media.

This may be just the beginning of a legal firestorm.

This extra-judicial kangaroo court is the equivalent of a communist system of justice or even worst.

Hopefully, it will be revamped so that there is a true fair due process. The sexual assault victims must be protected. That is unquestionable.

Lives can be ruined by someone pointing an accusatory finger without a right to defend oneself fairly.

We'll have to see if the process is "tweaked" in the next few days. They have one more appeal to the prevost (is she the "silent consent" lady)? Then on to lawsuits.

Mark Coyle talks about changing student athletes culture. Jerry Kill was upset in the insinuations of his public statements. When Jerry Kill took over, the players all attended classes, got tutoring when need, and did lots of volunteering with social causes. He did a lot to change the culture for the good.

I think an even bigger change at the U is needed. The administrative "culture" has to change.

What a fine mess you have members of the BOR, Mr. Kaler and Mr. Coyle.

You forgot: "How many other sexual assaults investigated with accused students and victim resulted in expulsion if no criminal charges were pressed?"


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[gopherswinagn]

Some of you are still really slow to get it. The president and AD are taking action to clear the PERCEPTION of rampant sexual culture issue of taking advantage of women, gangbangs, rape or whatever you want to call it. It makes zero difference if there was a crime or not. They are making decisions to clear up this culture. I hope if some players were not involved they get their names cleared, but attacking the AD for doing his job is ridiculous.

 

[Deleted_User]

As for A = B = C and C = "rape", what a false argument and assumes too much. So, let's review the quote. "If I stand with the victims of sexual violence..." The word you typed was "victims". So, he was speaking "in general" and A does not equal B, which therefore could not equal C. But, you knew that already and just ignored the plural form of the word for the sake of propagandizing your argument and puffing up your position at the expense of the President and his irrefutable honorable reputation. Then again, I have been told I am in the learning impaired class from my betters on this board.

Just saying, if you are going to try to use false logic, try editing out the plural form of the word and go with the singular in this case. Then, you might get a tiny bit closer to the claim of being logical. Just a suggestion from the village idiot.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I think all coaches tell players to be careful and stay out of trouble. I remember Glen Mason talking about Brandon Hall's death. (for newer fans, Hall was shot at a downtown club and died in 2002). Mason said that after the game, he told all of the players to stay out of trouble, and specifically warned them about visiting certain clubs in the downtown area where there had been some violence. So what happens - Hall goes to one of those clubs, a fight breaks out, and he was shot. (apparently an innocent bystander).

I suppose some people could blame Mason for not having more control over his players. The sad truth is that young guys think they are invincible and think nothing bad is ever going to happen to them. Hey - I'm a recovering alcoholic. During my peak drinking era, I probably drove drunk hundreds of times. I could have killed myself - or someone else. I didn't - got lucky.

Point being - Tracy Claeys did not tell players, "hey, go out and get kinky with some babes tonight." He - like all coaches - told them to be careful and don't get in trouble. some of those players didn't listen and made bad decisions. Short of locking the players in their rooms at night, I don't know what a coach could do to ensure there will never be an incident.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Hard to know what Claeys did or didn't say. Some people will do dumb things no matter who's in charge. How common is it for a coach to be fired for acts that have not been proven to occur?

Is there an unreasonable standard of responsibility set? Imagine if a teacher, professor, manager, CEO were held responsible for any alleged act of their student or employees. We've had some pompous individuals come on here and say things like I would never hire Mitch or any of these players in my company. Well, what if one of your employees is accused of a serious crime? Do you censure yourself, fire their manager? I'm being a bit facetious because I think at times we jump on coaches that have only limited control of their players lives. If there is a repeating pattern of behavior outside expected norms, or the coach turns a blind eye e.g. Baylor, then that's another animal altogether.

I think that Claeys, first and foremost, didn't realize that there would be players who would push the behavioral boundaries with the changing of the head coach. Second, he did not have the threats of Hewitt and the EOAA as a realistic threat to his team and authority as coach.

Then the final straw was his snarky comments to ,iirc, KSTP's reporter about not having to be up here and being cold. It showed an callous immaturity that I don't want in a head coach.

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[rugger14]

From the very good link and relevant to the gopher 10:

Relatedly, success in a “probable cause” hearing conducted by the criminal justice system may help you earn an acquittal in the campus proceeding. A probable cause hearing is a preliminary proceeding conducted prior to the bringing of a formal charge on which one then would stand trial. If “probable cause” is found, you are then formally charged and put to trial. If the prosecution is unable to prove that they have probable cause to try you, the failure to meet even this very low standard should signal to the campus tribunal that its case against you is likewise too weak to proceed to a hearing on the merits of the charge. Where no probable cause to proceed is found by the criminal justice system, the university cannot credibly argue that it can find you guilty, even under the comparable (and arguably higher) “preponderance of the evidence” standard discussed in greater detail below.

In theory you are correct but in practice you are not. Subjects "can" be charged if probable cause is there. This is very common and is definitely the standard for offenses like misdemeanors that can be charged by a peace officer on a citation. In a case like a somewhat ambiguous sexual assault case, it is far more likely for the investigators to forward the case to the county attorney for a charging decision. The county attorney then weighs the case using "beyond a reasonable doubt" because they will generally only charge if they think they have a decent chance of winning the case in court.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

In theory you are correct but in practice you are not. Subjects "can" be charged if probable cause is there. This is very common and is definitely the standard for offenses like misdemeanors that can be charged by a peace officer on a citation. In a case like a somewhat ambiguous sexual assault case, it is far more likely for the investigators to forward the case to the county attorney for a charging decision. The county attorney then weighs the case using "beyond a reasonable doubt" because they will generally only charge if they think they have a decent chance of winning the case in court.

This has been talked about ad-nausem. Freeman is supposedly tough on crime? The police and Freeman found her to be an unreliable witness with a shotty story. It didn't help her case to first say the sex was consensual then change her mind later.

 

[Ewert86PC]

I think all coaches tell players to be careful and stay out of trouble. I remember Glen Mason talking about Brandon Hall's death. (for newer fans, Hall was shot at a downtown club and died in 2002). Mason said that after the game, he told all of the players to stay out of trouble, and specifically warned them about visiting certain clubs in the downtown area where there had been some violence. So what happens - Hall goes to one of those clubs, a fight breaks out, and he was shot. (apparently an innocent bystander).

I suppose some people could blame Mason for not having more control over his players. The sad truth is that young guys think they are invincible and think nothing bad is ever going to happen to them. Hey - I'm a recovering alcoholic. During my peak drinking era, I probably drove drunk hundreds of times. I could have killed myself - or someone else. I didn't - got lucky.

Point being - Tracy Claeys did not tell players, "hey, go out and get kinky with some babes tonight." He - like all coaches - told them to be careful and don't get in trouble. some of those players didn't listen and made bad decisions. Short of locking the players in their rooms at night, I don't know what a coach could do to ensure there will never be an incident.

The point is that Clays didn't understand how much to impress the point to his players. Saying "be careful and don't get in trouble" is a half hearted attempt at coaching CYA. Since it was the beginning of the season, he needed to say "be careful and don't get in trouble because there are people who told me (and coach Kill) that they are looking to punish this program for off the field behavior."

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[caliGopher]

As for A = B = C and C = "rape", what a false argument and assumes too much. So, let's review the quote. "If I stand with the victims of sexual violence..." The word you typed was "victims". So, he was speaking "in general" and A does not equal B, which therefore could not equal C. But, you knew that already and just ignored the plural form of the word for the sake of propagandizing your argument and puffing up your position at the expense of the President and his irrefutable honorable reputation. Then again, I have been told I am in the learning impaired class from my betters on this board.

Just saying, if you are going to try to use false logic, try editing out the plural form of the word and go with the singular in this case. Then, you might get a tiny bit closer to the claim of being logical. Just a suggestion from the village idiot.

Equivocations.

So you disagree that in an article about suspending players for alleged sexual assault which is public knowledge at the point of the article and say that you stand with victims of sexual violence, he wasn't talking about this case? if you want to take the quote out of context, go ahead. The reporter asked him how we felt about the pressure for his actions in this case, he responded that he stands with Victims of Sexual Assault. If he were as honorable as you suggest, he would have stepped in back in September. Also, how many other situations like this have people said he should be fired because of? That's curious to me. I hadn't heard of any others, so I guess, I'm wrong there. His head has been called for so many times over this, he takes the same approach. Good for him. Or is this just you doing the same thing you're accusing me of doing?

So if A= The EOAA report says the woman was raped. And B = he suspended the players because of the EOAA report. Then C=he was speaking only in general terms and he has vociferously expelled all males who have been accused of rape.

Let's see the proof of that, please, or is he innocent until proven guilty? Is there a double standard in here somewhere? There are other quotes out there, but this one does just fine. And no, you're not an idiot, but I disagree with your conclusions, logical analysis, and assertion that Kaler is honorable. There are many people at the U who think otherwise and have more reason to believe so than I do. I've heard much of this long before September 2 of this year. I have no first hand knowledge of any of those assertions. Seems like he's done some good things but he's done some bad things as well.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The point is that Clays didn't understand how much to impress the point to his players. Saying "be careful and don't get in trouble" is a half hearted attempt at coaching CYA. Since it was the beginning of the season, he needed to say "be careful and don't get in trouble because there are people who told me (and coach Kill) that they are looking to punish this program for off the field behavior."

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Since no crime has been proven to have occurred, and I believe this was Tracy's first brush with a sexual assault allegation regarding his players I think you're being a bit harsh. I can guarantee you many coaches around the country retain their jobs after their players are actually proven to have committed a crime. I guess we are special.

 

[Spoofin]

I think that Claeys, first and foremost, didn't realize that there would be players who would push the behavioral boundaries with the changing of the head coach. Second, he did not have the threats of Hewitt and the EOAA as a realistic threat to his team and authority as coach.

Then the final straw was his snarky comments to ,iirc, KSTP's reporter about not having to be up here and being cold. It showed an callous immaturity that I don't want in a head coach.

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Yeah, I have a real hard time getting over him ripping on MN weather too. Who does he think he is saying it is cold in Minnesota?


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[Pompous Elitist]

More relevant material from the FIRE link on the preceding page regarding the EOAA office:




In more serious cases, however, the prosecutor and judge very likely could not be the same person, because this would result in a decisionmaker with an unacceptable degree of bias and prior acquaintance with the matter. At the very least, you should argue that this is an unacceptable conflict if you are faced by such a situation.

Unfortunately, as of the publication of this Guide, risk management consultants, victims’ rights advocates, and even the White House Task Force to Protect Students from Sexual Assault are strongly advocating for colleges and universities to adopt a so-called “single investigator” model for adjudicating campus claims of sexual harassment and sexual assault. This model proposes eliminating hearings altogether for students accused of assault and harassment and effectively empowering a sole administrator to serve as detective, judge, and jury. Troublingly, this system would afford the accused no meaningful chance to challenge his or her accuser’s testimony. Nevertheless, the White House Task Force called the single investigator model “promising” and hailed its “very positive results” in a 2014 report. As defense attorneys (and FIRE Legal Network members) Matthew Kaiser and Justin Dillon wrote in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece in May 2014:

[The White House Task Force] praises the so-called single-investigator model in which a solitary “trained” investigator would handle the entire investigative and adjudicative process. In other words, one person—presumably paid by the university, whose federal funding may be at stake if the government says the institution has contravened Title IX—will effectively decide innocence or guilt. There is a name for a system like this, and it is Javert.

The Task Force evinced only the most meager sense of the rights necessary to secure fundamentally fair hearings, noting that it believes the single investigator model would still “safeguard[] an alleged perpetrator’s right to notice and to be heard.” FIRE remains deeply skeptical about this claim. At best, such a system would provide accused students with the bare minimum of due process required by the Constitution and any notion of fundamental fairness. At worst—and far more likely, given colleges’ checkered track record with regard to respecting student due process rights—the single investigator system would allow a lone, self-interested administrator to find a student guilty of sexual assault without ever having to justify the finding to anyone but him or herself.

If the single investigator model is adopted by campuses nationwide—and, sadly, indications are that it may very well be—legal challenges to its constitutionality are all but inevitable. If you find yourself accused of sexual harassment or sexual assault and forced through a procedure in which you are not afforded a hearing or an opportunity to challenge the testimony of your accuser or his or her witnesses, be sure to check FIRE’s website to learn more about what courts have said about the legality of such a system. You should also hire an attorney.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Since no crime has been proven to have occurred, and I believe this was Tracy's first brush with a sexual assault allegation regarding his players I think you're being a bit harsh. I can guarantee you many coaches around the country retain their jobs after their players are actually proven to have committed a crime. I guess we are special.

We are special. We have Kimberly Hewitt who made threats to Coach Kill about cleaning up the program in regards to sexual assault. We have administrators who actively look to damage the football program as a badge of accomplishment.

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[Tlsbhansen]

The point is that Clays didn't understand how much to impress the point to his players. Saying "be careful and don't get in trouble" is a half hearted attempt at coaching CYA. Since it was the beginning of the season, he needed to say "be careful and don't get in trouble because there are people who told me (and coach Kill) that they are looking to punish this program for off the field behavior."

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So do you have first hand knowledge of what coach Claeys did or didn't say to his players?? Maybe you should have been called as a witness this week!

 

[rugger14]

This has been talked about ad-nausem. Freeman is supposedly tough on crime? The police and Freeman found her to be an unreliable witness with a shotty story. It didn't help her case to first say the sex was consensual then change her mind later.

The standard they used to charge or not was not probable cause. Not saying there was or wasn't based on what they had, just saying they generally use a somewhat higher standard when making a charging decision. You used the definitions to make your case and all I am saying is that PC was not the standard used by the police or the county attorney.

 

[Ewert86PC]

So do you have first hand knowledge of what coach Claeys did or didn't say to his players?? Maybe you should have been called as a witness this week!

If we were bringing the women's studies program and psychology department to task for their trangressions, I could be called as a witness.

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[Ewert86PC]

Yeah, I have a real hard time getting over him ripping on MN weather too. Who does he think he is saying it is cold in Minnesota?


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Especially since Kansas has gotten more snow and ice than Minnesota this winter....

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[60's Guy]

I think that Claeys, first and foremost, didn't realize that there would be players who would push the behavioral boundaries with the changing of the head coach. Second, he did not have the threats of Hewitt and the EOAA as a realistic threat to his team and authority as coach.

Then the final straw was his snarky comments to ,iirc, KSTP's reporter about not having to be up here and being cold. It showed an callous immaturity that I don't want in a head coach.

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The man just got fired moments earlier...moments...nobody in America wouldn't be pissed!!! That's pretty good restraint. Imagine you JUST got fired (period! but it's also millions of dollars gone, it's humiliation, it's betrayal, it's injustice, you just lost 120 players who you love, you feel responsible for 20 guys with families losing their jobs, you won 9 games, on and on)
and RIGHT NOW some clown puts a microphone in your face and says how do you feel about getting fired? Come on man!!! Have just a smidge of walking in the guys moccasins.