8 wins is unrealistic

Please break down this "culture" thing.

Honestly, what needs to stay and what needs to go and how will a coach improve on it.

Just ask Coyle and Fleck. They both stated that in their pressers. I'm not going to speculate and put words in their mouths. Whatever Fleck and Coyle intended is what Fleck will work on and affect as a coach. He may succeed or he may fail.

As far as what I want is a better game day atmosphere (traditions restored), steady academics from where they are today, more support from the people of the state of Minnesota, PC idiocy elimated, and a few thousand other things I'm not going to list. The coach can affect all of the above in how I view them.

Oh one other thing. I love the culture on this board. All the piss ant bickering is fun to read and very entertaining. I hope nothing changes here.
 

Yes. I'm sure that's what he meant.

Nice waste of time posting this.

We want to stop graduation.
We want to present hearsay as fact.

Nice job looping in those two items because no kids will graduate if we don't have multiple guys banging the same drunk gal in a given evening.

It's like you are correlating the two together or something.



And yes, again, the culture change that needs to take place, since none of you seem to understand it is:

1. Improve game day experience by increasing attendance by having the public be proud of the players off the field actions instead of despising the team based on their off the field actions. I think most people is fine with whoever the team wants to have sex with as long as they aren't bordeline sexually assaulting others.

A simple rule, if you are making news that could alienate the broad fan base who have varied opinions on what is right or wrong for a student athlete, that is going to hurt attendance, your negatively affecting the program.

Many of you seem to think that performing actions that make the newscast isn't a big deal, or that it should just go away, but others actually care and realize that even though a girl may not have been raped, or it might not have even been sexual assault (if you want to believe that) the majority of the public can still be sickened and turned off by what happened and decide to not attend games or purchase tickets.

That's the culture change that needs to happen.
IT DOES NOT MEAN, we want to supervise or sign off on any sexual acts they do. Just don't put yourself in situations that tarnish the University of Minnesota to the degree that this did.

This is the final time I'll explain this to you people who don't seem to understand that public perception is based off of independent opinions, many which appear to differ than many of you die-hards.

I believe everyone will agree that the number of season tickets (which is the back bone of attendance) has declined greatly in the last couple of years. Which happened before the incident after the opening game. What do you think is the single greatest reason for this decline ? I'm guessing you will say it's because of the product on the field. If you believe this, I would encourage to go back and read numerous threads here where many season ticket holders stated why they were not renewing.
 

As far as what I want is a better game day atmosphere (traditions restored), steady academics from where they are today, more support from the people of the state of Minnesota, PC idiocy elimated, and a few thousand other things I'm not going to list. The coach can affect all of the above in how I view them.

I'm with you there Maverick. All those would be wonderful and what I would like PJF to influence.


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Did Walker pass away while they didn't have an AD? I'm honestly asking, I don't know. The fact that we didn't have an AD is the unusual circumstance I'm talking about. We really didn't have much choice we basically were forced to hire from within. Your comparioson falls flat sorry.

I hate siding with dpod but you are reaching here. Not exact but similar circumstances.
 



Active head coaches dying at a young age happens all the time. It's not an unusual circumstance at all.:rolleyes:

That is obviously rare captain obvious. But they had an AD and could conduct a normal coaching search if they desired while we could not. Big difference IMO.
 

Umm, he said losing kids to graduation was part of culture change. Not me. You seem to forget that. He said those exact words.

As for the rest of the garbage you are spewing (for the last time, apparently) it is nonsense. First, no you shouldn't care if the players, or anyone, engage in group sex if it was consensual. Second, Hearsay as fact? Yes you are. 10-20. Drunk. Should I continue? Third, are we going to pretend that this one incident happened because of some out of control culture? To do that we need to ignore all the positives and the record for all the other years JK and TC were here. An incident is not a culture. Jerry had a culture to change. PJF doesn't. These things aren't even in the same ball-park. I again assume you didn't follow the Gophers at all when Brew was here.

PJF started preaching "culture change" at his opening presser. He had been in MN for like an hour. You think he sat down and evaluated everything about our players and program and determined we needed a culture change? You are naive. He would have said the same no matter what job he went to. RTB. Ski-U-Mah. Elite. Change. Make America Great Again. They all mean nothing and folks like you eat it up like candy. You are the type of person the media preys on.

I like PJF. I think he could be successful here. I am optimistic for the future and expect more than most next year with him. Boy oh boy could I do without the rhetoric tho. And those that eat it.




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Please explain what factual evidence you have to show this was an isolated incident?? The public perception is this sort of event happens all the time with the football players and if it was consensual or not is irrelevant. The perception is and it got 10 players suspended and the head coach fired. Hence the AD steps in to tell Fleck we want you to come here and change the culture. Fleck did not start that the AD told him that's why he was being hired. And when the culture changes the perception will be all the crap was put behind them.
 

Please explain what factual evidence you have to show this was an isolated incident?? The public perception is this sort of event happens all the time with the football players and if it was consensual or not is irrelevant. The perception is and it got 10 players suspended and the head coach fired. Hence the AD steps in to tell Fleck we want you to come here and change the culture. Fleck did not start that the AD told him that's why he was being hired. And when the culture changes the perception will be all the crap was put behind them.

LOL.
 

Please explain what factual evidence you have to show this was an isolated incident?? The public perception is this sort of event happens all the time with the football players and if it was consensual or not is irrelevant.

Are you kidding? Maybe that is your perception. If it is anyone else's I feel bad for them.
Proof that it was an isolated incident? How about the fact that there is no other talk or claims to the contrary.
Irrelevant on if it was consensual or not? WTF are you even talking about. Dumbest thought yet.
Bye Troll.


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Assuming it was consensual (because this debate is about consensual sexual activities), that is the single dumbest argument that I've ever heard.

Your argument is that you shouldn't engage in something legal and consensual IF there is a risk that someone will lie about what happened and it becomes a national story? Wait. . .what?

You can't really hold that opinion can you?

Like it's ok to go to the supermarket and buy seafood, however, if you get falsely accused of stealing seafood, your fault.
You should simply never have sex, Jameis Winston was accused of it (1 on 1) and it was kind of a big story.
You better not go to the mall, someone could accuse you of stealing jeans.

This stance is putrid. If they engaged in consensual sex and she lied, it is a big story because of her lies. You can't stop someone from making something up about you, you certainly shouldn't be punished for it.

In the US, we let people engage in the kind of consensual sexual activity they prefer, it's just weird to have any sort of opinion on that.

So 10 Players were suspended and the coach was fired because of the event whether consensual or not. Apparently the AD, President, and general public cared.. but I guess it's really weird!!!
 

So 10 Players were suspended and the coach was fired because of the event whether consensual or not. Apparently the AD, President, and general public cared.. but I guess it's really weird!!!

Why can't all fan bases be cool with gang banging an intoxicated co-ed?
 

Why can't all fan bases be cool with gang banging an intoxicated co-ed?

Well, she admits that she hadn't had drinks in many hours and police who saw the video said she didn't appear drunk. Yet you and others like to beat that drum. Why should facts matter, right?


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So 10 Players were suspended and the coach was fired because of the event whether consensual or not. Apparently the AD, President, and general public cared.. but I guess it's really weird!!!

Interesting. I thought they were suspended the first time due to the rape allegation and the second time due to the EOAA's opinion that it was 'more likely than not' that they did rape her. I guess I was wrong. Seems from you they were suspended for group sex - consensual or not. Twice. Again, we should never let facts get in the way.


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Interesting. I thought they were suspended the first time due to the rape allegation and the second time due to the EOAA's opinion that it was 'more likely than not' that they did rape her. I guess I was wrong. Seems from you they were suspended for group sex - consensual or not. Twice. Again, we should never let facts get in the way.


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Let me explain one more time to the ignorant and naive. The public perception of a rampant gang bang, taking advantage of women, or even rape is the CULTURE that Fleck was hired to clean up. I don't get why that is so hard for you to understand. You can argue all you want about whether anything happened or not, but the state and public perception doesn't change because of your opinion!!!!!
 

Let me explain one more time to the ignorant and naive. The public perception of a rampant gang bang, taking advantage of women, or even rape is the CULTURE that Fleck was hired to clean up. I don't get why that is so hard for you to understand. You can argue all you want about whether anything happened or not, but the state and public perception doesn't change because of your opinion!!!!!

I guess I didn't realize I was cheering on such a dispicable group of young men. Sounds like an institution rotten to its core. How could I be so stupid. And how could this stop at just the firing of a football coach? I demand to see more blood.
 

Let me explain one more time to the ignorant and naive. The public perception of a rampant gang bang, taking advantage of women, or even rape is the CULTURE that Fleck was hired to clean up. I don't get why that is so hard for you to understand. You can argue all you want about whether anything happened or not, but the state and public perception doesn't change because of your opinion!!!!!

I get it. You aren't talking for yourself, but rather the entire public. Thanks for explaining it. You certainly have made me look ignorant and naive.


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That is obviously rare captain obvious. But they had an AD and could conduct a normal coaching search if they desired while we could not. Big difference IMO.

Yes, DI schools conduct football coach searches in July all the time.
 

I believe everyone will agree that the number of season tickets (which is the back bone of attendance) has declined greatly in the last couple of years. Which happened before the incident after the opening game. What do you think is the single greatest reason for this decline ? I'm guessing you will say it's because of the product on the field. If you believe this, I would encourage to go back and read numerous threads here where many season ticket holders stated why they were not renewing.

The reason for ticket decline could be numerous, but part of it is winning and losing. Part of it is whether people feel connected to the team. Do they have a relationship with it. Are they more likely to have a good relationship if they hear more positive coming from the team than negative?

Right now the football team is viewed by many as a group of guys playing ball who get free rides and who are there to play football, have women chase them, and that's about it.

If you change the culture where they are positive figures in the community, where every day there is an article about them doing good things, that would help outweigh the one or two bad things that pop up which then makes them lose all the positive credibility they've gained with the community.

This is the definition of culture change. They need to change the culture where socially they are viewed as an essential contributor to the community, whether it's volunteering, visiting kids in the hospital, recognizing community members, etc., these are things they need to do, because in MN it is different than Alabama or Texas or LSU. It's not just about football here. You need to be more than just football. In the south that's good enough, but the Minnesota consumer has far more choices so it's easy to cut bait when the University Football program is embarrassing itself.

For all I know, the Gophers could be doing all of this already, but if so they need someone better and publicizing it. As much as i hate the term "marketing" that's essentially what the teams biggest need is at this point.

If their grade point average is above University average, that should be publicized. But a newspaper isn't just going to write about that, so they need to take the next step and do something unusual like create a Football Tutoring Program where the football players are actually tutoring the other students. It would be a complete 180 on what people's perceptions are.

Also, we neighbor Wisconsin. We should have Goldy and the football team visiting Wisconsin hospitals all the way to Marshfield Clinic. These kids are going to grow up and move to Minneapolis or Chicago for jobs in 10-20 years. Might as well start making connections to these families early on.

There's a lot they can do and that's why when PJ says, we're going to get people who don't even like football to be fans, that's the angle I think he's coming at.
 

The reason for ticket decline could be numerous, but part of it is winning and losing. Part of it is whether people feel connected to the team. Do they have a relationship with it. Are they more likely to have a good relationship if they hear more positive coming from the team than negative?

Right now the football team is viewed by many as a group of guys playing ball who get free rides and who are there to play football, have women chase them, and that's about it.

If you change the culture where they are positive figures in the community, where every day there is an article about them doing good things, that would help outweigh the one or two bad things that pop up which then makes them lose all the positive credibility they've gained with the community.


This is the definition of culture change. They need to change the culture where socially they are viewed as an essential contributor to the community, whether it's volunteering, visiting kids in the hospital, recognizing community members, etc., these are things they need to do, because in MN it is different than Alabama or Texas or LSU. It's not just about football here. You need to be more than just football. In the south that's good enough, but the Minnesota consumer has far more choices so it's easy to cut bait when the University Football program is embarrassing itself.

For all I know, the Gophers could be doing all of this already, but if so they need someone better and publicizing it. As much as i hate the term "marketing" that's essentially what the teams biggest need is at this point.

If their grade point average is above University average, that should be publicized. But a newspaper isn't just going to write about that, so they need to take the next step and do something unusual like create a Football Tutoring Program where the football players are actually tutoring the other students. It would be a complete 180 on what people's perceptions are.

Also, we neighbor Wisconsin. We should have Goldy and the football team visiting Wisconsin hospitals all the way to Marshfield Clinic. These kids are going to grow up and move to Minneapolis or Chicago for jobs in 10-20 years. Might as well start making connections to these families early on.

There's a lot they can do and that's why when PJ says, we're going to get people who don't even like football to be fans, that's the angle I think he's coming at.

Do you believe our local press looks for and is interested in writing such stories? Can you provide an example of a program that fits this description?
 

Well, she admits that she hadn't had drinks in many hours and police who saw the video said she didn't appear drunk. Yet you and others like to beat that drum. Why should facts matter, right?


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Much like Trump...pretend it is worse than it is using made up facts so you can get credit for improving it even though it doesn't actually get better.
 

I really hate how "culture" has suddenly become the one-size-fits-all excuse for any problems, perceived or otherwise, in the Gopher FB program.

Again - for the record - High team GPA - High APR - some of the best academic results in Gopher History - but we have to change the "culture." A few players made mistakes - but the entire team is somehow at fault?

I blame a lot of this on Coyle. He's the AD - he has every right to bring in "his" guy as FB coach. But Coyle didn't have the guts, or the honesty, to just come out and say "I'm in charge and I'm making a change." Because that puts the onus on him. Instead, he cynically uses an incident - involving a handful of players from a roster of over 100 young men - and blames "culture" as the reason why he "had" to make a change. BS. BS. BS.

Since this thread is about expectations - here are my "expectations" for next season.

1. Anything that goes wrong for the Gophers will be blamed on "culture" and/or the previous coaching staff.

2. anything that goes right will be credited to Fleck and his efforts to "change the culture."

3. If the team fails to live up to expectations, it will be blamed on "culture" and people will say Fleck needs more time to change the "culture."

4. If the team meets or exceeds expectations, it will be because Fleck is a miracle worker and was able to change the "culture" in one off-season.

I am really torn here. I will root for the program, and the returning players - but I will have a very hard time cheering for Fleck and all of the BS. I feel like someone has yanked the heart right out of my chest - I'm just empty right now.
 

I really hate how "culture" has suddenly become the one-size-fits-all excuse for any problems, perceived or otherwise, in the Gopher FB program.

Again - for the record - High team GPA - High APR - some of the best academic results in Gopher History - but we have to change the "culture." A few players made mistakes - but the entire team is somehow at fault?

I blame a lot of this on Coyle. He's the AD - he has every right to bring in "his" guy as FB coach. But Coyle didn't have the guts, or the honesty, to just come out and say "I'm in charge and I'm making a change." Because that puts the onus on him. Instead, he cynically uses an incident - involving a handful of players from a roster of over 100 young men - and blames "culture" as the reason why he "had" to make a change. BS. BS. BS.

Since this thread is about expectations - here are my "expectations" for next season.

1. Anything that goes wrong for the Gophers will be blamed on "culture" and/or the previous coaching staff.

2. anything that goes right will be credited to Fleck and his efforts to "change the culture."

3. If the team fails to live up to expectations, it will be blamed on "culture" and people will say Fleck needs more time to change the "culture."

4. If the team meets or exceeds expectations, it will be because Fleck is a miracle worker and was able to change the "culture" in one off-season.

I am really torn here. I will root for the program, and the returning players - but I will have a very hard time cheering for Fleck and all of the BS. I feel like someone has yanked the heart right out of my chest - I'm just empty right now.

Coyle gave multiple reasons why Claeys was fired but you only focus on one. I think you're taking the culture thing too seriously. Every coach has a culture they want to establish at whatever program they go to and Fleck's happens to be unique.
 


Do you believe our local press looks for and is interested in writing such stories? Can you provide an example of a program that fits this description?

No.
They absolutely don't want to write positive stories, that's why you need to have a marketing type to pull this off.
It's not just coaching football.

If they did, KSTP or WCCO would be doing stories on how the football team has been affecting the school or community in a positive light where people who aren't football fans would think, "Hey, that's cool. These young men are doing A, B, and C to make Minnesota a better place"

Instead they think (not all, but maybe some): "Why do we even have a football program. Entitled kids, losing a lot of football games who never can win a championship (let alone win a football game, partying, abusing women, drinking, etc., and we're paying their tuition. Just cut the program and just keep women's sports".
 

The culture thing is BS. Culture is now a cute and trendy word that is way over played.

Its all very simple.

What the Gopher program needs to change is bring in players who can tackle, block, run, pass, catch and over all play the game better than what we have had. That is what Fleck needs to do.
 

While I have a great deal of respect for Mitch, no how is he NFL caliber IMO.

I saw far too many balls thrown to "God Knows Who?," too many "God Knows Why?," far too many "What were you thinking?"

Mitch was PAINFULLY inaccurate much of the time, threw into coverage far too often - whether he really "read defenses" is an open question for me (I have my doubts).

The TD pass in the bowl game was so bloody typical of what Mitch was throughout his career - thrown into triple coverage, there was no way in HADES that was the result of a "read" of the defense . . . . he was going to Brooks from the get go, regardless of what the defense did, and then he threw a bad pass which, but for the grace of God, would have been picked.

In which case the Gophers might well have lost the bowl game despite the lights-out performance by the defense.

If Mitch is "NFL Quality," it'll be because someone does a super-human retraining / teaching job between end of the season and training camp.

On occasion, he could be very good.
 

No.
They absolutely don't want to write positive stories, that's why you need to have a marketing type to pull this off.
It's not just coaching football.

If they did, KSTP or WCCO would be doing stories on how the football team has been affecting the school or community in a positive light where people who aren't football fans would think, "Hey, that's cool. These young men are doing A, B, and C to make Minnesota a better place"

Instead they think (not all, but maybe some): "Why do we even have a football program. Entitled kids, losing a lot of football games who never can win a championship (let alone win a football game, partying, abusing women, drinking, etc., and we're paying their tuition. Just cut the program and just keep women's sports".
To your first point, why did we then fire the football coach and not the marketing or PR director? Regarding the second point, I completely agree that those people will always be present. There simply is a large portion of the population that don't care for sports or anything associated with them. I prefer not to listen to them rather than allow them to influence our approach to athletics. But that's just me.
 

Coyle gave multiple reasons why Claeys was fired but you only focus on one. I think you're taking the culture thing too seriously. Every coach has a culture they want to establish at whatever program they go to and Fleck's happens to be unique.

What SON wrote is 100% accurate. Coyle should have just owned the decision. Instead, he shat on anyone associated with the program over the past several years. He came across as a weak, blameful administrator. He could have handled the situation much more respectfully.
 

Nonconf: 3 wins at minimum, OSU win on road makes it 4. Beating Purdue and Illinois should be givens, even if we have a newbie QB. Maryland? You are at 7 before tossups Nebraska and Iowa. 8 wins looks doable (appeals pending)

Appeals are and players involved have become the red herring for tamping down expectations. Handful of starters who missed a third of the season. Bonus if some come back and contribute, but eight regular season wins is reasonable expectation without them.
 

Are you kidding? Maybe that is your perception. If it is anyone else's I feel bad for them.
Proof that it was an isolated incident? How about the fact that there is no other talk or claims to the contrary.
Irrelevant on if it was consensual or not? WTF are you even talking about. Dumbest thought yet.
Bye Troll.


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Ditto from me.
 




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