Rating Leidner's skills...

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beat bucky

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Watching the BigTen classic football games gives one a good opportunity to compare the recent qb play in the conference. After two years, we've all seen what Mitch Leidner's got, but how do his skills compare with other recent qbs that have taken their teams to the next level?
On a scale of 1-10, let's rate the necessary skills...
Passing- Cook MSU 7, Jones OSU 7, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 4
Playmaking- Wilson UW 8, Jones OSU 7, Cook MSU 5, Leidner UM 3
Clutch Time- Wilson UW 9, Jones OSU 8, Cook MSU 6, Leidner UM 4
Running- Miller OSU 8, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 5, Cook MSU 3
For those Gopher fans looking for the team to take the next step, the stats along with these honest ratings might indicate it may not happen for a couple of more years.
 

beat bucky said:
Watching the BigTen classic football games gives one a good opportunity to compare the recent qb play in the conference. After two years, we've all seen what Mitch Leidner's got, but how do his skills compare with other recent qbs that have taken their teams to the next level?
On a scale of 1-10, let's rate the necessary skills...
Passing- Cook MSU 7, Jones OSU 7, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 4
Playmaking- Wilson UW 8, Jones OSU 7, Cook MSU 5, Leidner UM 3
Clutch Time- Wilson UW 9, Jones OSU 8, Cook MSU 6, Leidner UM 4
Running- Miller OSU 8, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 5, Cook MSU 3
For those Gopher fans looking for the team to take the next step, the stats along with these honest ratings might indicate it may not happen for a couple of more years.
Click to expand...

Well if beatbucky says it must be true. LOL
 

Which of these skill comparisons do you disagree with? Or are you just another bobo?
 

Why is JT Barrett not on this list? He should probably be near the top of almost every category.
 

beat bucky said:
Which of these skill comparisons do you disagree with? Or are you just another bobo?
Click to expand...

I have always been convinced that Mitcheroo is a below avg d2 QB. then he won 8 games in a season. now i sit in the corner.
 


beat bucky said:
Watching the BigTen classic football games gives one a good opportunity to compare the recent qb play in the conference. After two years, we've all seen what Mitch Leidner's got, but how do his skills compare with other recent qbs that have taken their teams to the next level?
On a scale of 1-10, let's rate the necessary skills...
Passing- Cook MSU 7, Jones OSU 7, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 4
Playmaking- Wilson UW 8, Jones OSU 7, Cook MSU 5, Leidner UM 3
Clutch Time- Wilson UW 9, Jones OSU 8, Cook MSU 6, Leidner UM 4
Running- Miller OSU 8, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 5, Cook MSU 3
For those Gopher fans looking for the team to take the next step, the stats along with these honest ratings might indicate it may not happen for a couple of more years.
Click to expand...

I don't get the comparatives here?

Leidner has been in 2013- A change of pace runner at QB, and in 2014 a facilitator to a strong running game. His role now changes and I think we'll see higher numbers in the passing attempts, yards and completion percentage because of it.
What I do think is woefully unappreciated is Leidner's on field leadership and toughness. He plays as a lunch pail QB, and I think that type of attitude carries into a selflessness on offense that Kill appreciates.
I also think it's fair to rate his clutch numbers higher than you have them here. I'm not going to compare him with the other QB's you've chosen, but he has made some pretty good throws/plays in pressure situations or at critical moments.
 

Ole said:
I don't get the comparatives here?

Leidner has been in 2013- A change of pace runner at QB, and in 2014 a facilitator to a strong running game. His role now changes and I think we'll see higher numbers in the passing attempts, yards and completion percentage because of it.
What I do think is woefully unappreciated is Leidner's on field leadership and toughness. He plays as a lunch pail QB, and I think that type of attitude carries into a selflessness on offense that Kill appreciates.
I also think it's fair to rate his clutch numbers higher than you have them here. I'm not going to compare him with the other QB's you've chosen, but he has made some pretty good throws/plays in pressure situations or at critical moments.
Click to expand...

But leadership and toughness don't show up in Fantasy Armchair NCAA Mom's Basement 2015.
 

I think the book has yet to be written on Mitch.


<a href="http://reactiongifs.com/?p=386"><img src="http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2011/05/THISGONBGUD.gif"></a>
 

anyone who thinks leidner will attempt more passes has not been paying attention.
 




beat bucky said:
Watching the BigTen classic football games gives one a good opportunity to compare the recent qb play in the conference. After two years, we've all seen what Mitch Leidner's got, but how do his skills compare with other recent qbs that have taken their teams to the next level?
On a scale of 1-10, let's rate the necessary skills...
Passing- Cook MSU 7, Jones OSU 7, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 4
Playmaking- Wilson UW 8, Jones OSU 7, Cook MSU 5, Leidner UM 3
Clutch Time- Wilson UW 9, Jones OSU 8, Cook MSU 6, Leidner UM 4
Running- Miller OSU 8, Wilson UW 6, Leidner UM 5, Cook MSU 3
For those Gopher fans looking for the team to take the next step, the stats along with these honest ratings might indicate it may not happen for a couple of more years.
Click to expand...

Well this is right on.. This is what i have been saying and people rip me left and right for stating the clear hard facts, mitch is a below average quarterback, for the gophers to get to the next level he will need to A) Change Identities this year with Payton Manning or B) I guess some how learn to throw a 5 yard pass and hang on to the ball when running.
 

Remember, He was just a Sophmore last year. He as 2 more years. Ihave been around H. S. and college sports for a long time and that year is quite often a "bad" year. I know it was for me.
 

beat bucky said:
For those Gopher fans looking for the team to take the next step, the stats along with these honest ratings might indicate it may not happen for a couple of more years.
Click to expand...

I have no idea if Mitch will take us to the next level. That said, your argument loses credibility when you present your own ratings as if they were some sort of almost-fact - "honest ratings".
 



BarnBoy said:
But leadership and toughness don't show up in Fantasy Armchair NCAA Mom's Basement 2015.
Click to expand...

How the heck do you rate leadership? Winning creates leaders. So by that yes, Mitch has led reasonably well-but not great.
As for clutch time, almost every big 4th quarter win was due to others play. Mitch fumbled twice in the last Nebraska drive before they scored and Boddy Calhoun stole the game. Mitch stalled out on the last Purdue drive before Santoso kicked a 53 yarder and Thompson stole the game. Mitch failed to move the team in the last drive of the Missouri bowl game. And let's not even talk about Wisconsin. Am I missing something?
 

BarnBoy said:
I have no idea if Mitch will take us to the next level. That said, your argument loses credibility when you present your own ratings as if they were some sort of almost-fact - "honest ratings".
Click to expand...

Hows this. Let your eyes and mind be the ratings.
 

beat bucky said:
How the heck do you rate leadership? Winning creates leaders. So by that yes, Mitch has led reasonably well-but not great.
As for clutch time, almost every big 4th quarter win was due to others play. Mitch fumbled twice in the last Nebraska drive before they scored and Boddy Calhoun stole the game. Mitch stalled out on the last Purdue drive before Santoso kicked a 53 yarder and Thompson stole the game. Mitch failed to move the team in the last drive of the Missouri bowl game. And let's not even talk about Wisconsin. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Missouri bowl game showed off his passing skills and maturity IMO. The final drives were stalled due to play calling and Missouri stuffing the run game.
 

wait!what? said:
anyone who thinks leidner will attempt more passes has not been paying attention.
Click to expand...

Count me in that group. I'm seeing most teams daring Mitch to pass as they put 8-in the box routinely. For better or worse, Mitch will be forced to throw.
 

beat bucky said:
How the heck do you rate leadership? Winning creates leaders. So by that yes, Mitch has led reasonably well-but not great. As for clutch time, almost every big 4th quarter win was due to others play. Mitch fumbled twice in the last Nebraska drive before they scored and Boddy Calhoun stole the game. Mitch stalled out on the last Purdue drive before Santoso kicked a 53 yarder and Thompson stole the game. Mitch failed to move the team in the last drive of the Missouri bowl game. And let's not even talk about Wisconsin. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

That was my point. You literally just made my point. Some (myself included) think that he has toughness and leadership that have helped us in games. Has he hurt us at times? Of course. If you're not a huge fan or his, or don't believe in him, that's cool.

But it's a little silly to compare his to two future first-rounders and a first rounder that just won the superbowl. You know that's not his skillset. He doesn't have to be those guys for us to go to the next level.

Why exclude Joel Stave in your analysis? Or other game managers?
 


BarnBoy said:
Why exclude Joel Stave in your analysis? Or other game managers?
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Well, I could have included Stave I guess, but he's very similar to Leidner, I think, in that he doesn't add much or subtract much from his team's capabilities.
Then there's the fact that Stave outplayed Leidner for the Axe last year...ouch!
 

I think that Leidner will be much improved this year, if I'm wrong, I'll get on and eat my portion of crow. I hope the Leidner doubters will step up in a similar fashion.
 

beat bucky said:
Well, I could have included Stave I guess, but he's very similar to Leidner, I think, in that he doesn't add much or subtract much from his team's capabilities. Then there's the fact that Stave outplayed Leidner for the Axe last year...ouch!
Click to expand...

Sigh... You just made another point for me.

Stave: Game manager. Beat his rival. Won 11 games. Got to the big 10 champ game. Beat SEC team in bowl.
Yeah... he's a real loser. Why can't Mitch be that?

Your flawed strawman is that a QB has to be flashy to help his team.
 

If by much improved, you mean the Gophers finally win the Axe, go the BigTen Championship game, and win a bowl game, I'll have a serving of crow myself. But I'm going to store up some food just in case.
 

Comparative rankings against the three of the best QB's in the Big Ten? Ok. Real "honest".

All you need to do is read a few posts from this guy to realize that he has a few screws loose.
 

BarnBoy said:
Sigh... You just made another point for me.

Stave: Game manager. Beat his rival. Won 11 games. Got to the big 10 champ game. Beat SEC team in bowl.
Yeah... he's a real loser. Why can't Mitch be that?

Your flawed strawman is that a QB has to be flashy to help his team.
Click to expand...

That's ridiculous. Stave didn't beat anyone. He was terrible but he outplayed Leidner. Which only proves how important having a quality qb really is because if we had one, WE would have the Axe.
 

stocker08 said:
Comparative rankings against the three of the best QB's in the Big Ten? Ok. Real "honest".

All you need to do is read a few posts from this guy to realize that he has a few screws loose.
Click to expand...

Ah, character assassination...the predictable words of a man who has nothing intelligent to add.
 

BarnBoy said:
That was my point. You literally just made my point. Some (myself included) think that he has toughness and leadership that have helped us in games. Has he hurt us at times? Of course. If you're not a huge fan or his, or don't believe in him, that's cool.
Click to expand...
In Lincoln last year is a perfect example of this. He ran hard all game for over 100 yards including the tough go-ahead TD run where he ran someone over at the goal line. He also came up with HUGE passes in that game, most notably the 3rd down pass to Maye but he also threw a great pass to Maxx in the 3rd quarter on 3rd down in our own territory which led to Williams TD run I believe.

It's funny that the original poster uses this game to show the negatives of Leidner when in fact it was one of his better games so far. Whenever your team comes back from 14 down in the 2nd half on the road and wins the game the QB deserves a lot of credit. He sets the tone, the players look at him for leadership and the way he handles himself in the huddle and on the sideline makes a difference.
 

beat bucky said:
How the heck do you rate leadership? Winning creates leaders. So by that yes, Mitch has led reasonably well-but not great.
As for clutch time, almost every big 4th quarter win was due to others play. Mitch fumbled twice in the last Nebraska drive before they scored and Boddy Calhoun stole the game. Mitch stalled out on the last Purdue drive before Santoso kicked a 53 yarder and Thompson stole the game. Mitch failed to move the team in the last drive of the Missouri bowl game. And let's not even talk about Wisconsin. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Aaaaand your purposes for this weird comparison are revealed.

He's been touted by the coaches for his leadership. He's won on the road vs Nebraska and Michigan, it's possible few modern day gopher QB's have that distinction.
You neglect to add the plays he made to get us back into the Nebraska game, the Purdue game, and the pose and efficiency he showed against Michigan and Iowa.
Those are a few examples of how you can rate his leadership, it's not a number like you want it to be, but his teammates respect him and play hard for him.
 

There's no problem with having an honest discussion about the merits of Leidner as a QB. But, when you make up your own ranking system out of thin air, and assign the values based on your own perception/bias, that system has no legitimate value.

I think I will make up my own ranking system to rank posters on Gopher Hole. After painstaking research and computer analysis, my system has determined that I am the #1 poster on Gopher Hole. And, my system has just as much validity as your made-up QB ranking system.
 

beat bucky said:
Ah, character assassination...the predictable words of a man who has nothing intelligent to add.
Click to expand...

You have enough activity on this board by now. You've earned your "throw away poster" reputation several times over.
 

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