Play Gray -The Movement

[#93fanclub]

We are currently a one dimensional team. We have a quarterback who is a threat to take off down the field ON EVERY PLAY. Based upon our performance to date, there is no downside to a) starting Gray or b)platooning Gray and Weber. Do we think that 3 and 4 star recruits don't see this? I do not like the philosophy that anoints a person quarterback for the duration. Let Gray compete for the job during a game.

[kingston10]

I agreeeeeeeee!!!!!!

[Ole]

STUPID:rolleyes:

The coaches would have had him playing by now if he was ready.
Downsides include:
INT's, injuries(our Oline is not just going to block better overnight), bad habit forming(happy feet... see Weber after running for his life for three years, and overall less chance to gain chemistry and ultimately win. Are you ok with a 4-8, 5-7 season with Gray? or a 6, 7 , 8 win season with Weber?

[i'm batman]

We have a quarterback who is a threat to take off down the field ON EVERY PLAY.

and maybe even fumble ON EVERY PLAY.

[ilovethebarn]

I agree play Gray!!!

[ncgo4]

If I was convinced the problems rested with Weber, I'd agree. There is plenty of evidence, however, that our offenive line is the real issue. Look at the end of the game when Weber had zero time to drop back and throw. The offensive line was pourous.

I also have an issue with the play calling at that time. It looked to me as though they had Weber in a deep drop offense trying to make the big play. We had 2:20, or so, left when we got the ball. With the clock stopping on each 1st down I thought we should have been trying to make 10 yard plays for 1st downs. Looking at the TIVO of the game it appears to me that Wisc. was giving us that but we were committed to hitting a home run. Foolish, given our O Line. Our 1st objective was a field goal.

[Bayfieldgopher]

Am I satisfied with Webers performance thus far? No. Do I want to see a green untested and not game ready QB struggling to run an offense like we saw with Weber in 07? No.

I defer to the coaches.

What I think is realistic is to allow Gray to run the base offense when he is out there versus gadget and wildcat plays. Can't they allow him to throw a safe, base route in gametime conditions? Continue to use him but let him be a QB.

[Hates Monikers]

Am I satisfied with Webers performance thus far? No. Do I want to see a green untested and not game ready QB struggling to run an offense like we saw with Weber in 07? No.

I defer to the coaches.

What I think is realistic is to allow Gray to run the base offense when he is out there versus gadget and wildcat plays. Can't they allow him to throw a safe, base route in gametime conditions? Continue to use him but let him be a QB.

Agree, mostly. I don't think Gray should start, but why not give him a full series on occasion instead of one play? Why play him at WR while others who play there full-time (Carpenter?) watch from the sidelines?

However, to all those people who say the coaches know better because they see the two QBs in practice (which is true) and that's why Weber continues to play: It was the coaches who told us that Gray was going to be a big part of this offense this year. Both Brewster and Fisch. I'm sure they watched Gray occasionally in spring practice and fall camp before they got so excited about him -- and got US so excited about him.

[jovs]

We are currently a one dimensional team. We have a quarterback who is a threat to take off down the field ON EVERY PLAY. Based upon our performance to date, there is no downside to a) starting Gray or b)platooning Gray and Weber. Do we think that 3 and 4 star recruits don't see this? I do not like the philosophy that anoints a person quarterback for the duration. Let Gray compete for the job during a game.

I think next week will determine alot of this. If you go with Gray you are preparing for the future. There are going to be some ups and downs. There is no way he can step in and be consistant as a freshman. If the Gophers lose next week they are looking at 1-4 big ten start and probably no bowl game, it may be time to start preparing for the future if that happens.

[monk10]

I'm glad our program is developing that a talent like Gray can learn under a talent like Weber, and we don't have to play people at this position too early.

[wait!what?]

Weber is doing fine with the time he has. We are in every game.

[dpodoll68]

Do I want to see a green untested and not game ready QB struggling to run an offense like we saw with Weber in 07? No.

Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.:rolleyes:

In all seriousness though, too many people are making this an either-or issue. It shouldn't be, nor need it be. There is absolutely no reason why Gray cannot play more than he has been over the course of the season. I thought the Northwestern game was a sign of things to come, that his role would steadily increase, and that by the end of the season, he would be taking 25-30% of the snaps, and (gasp!) throwing the ball once in a while! The few times he has seen the field he has been absolutely electric, and many of us would like to see more of that.

Even to the untrained eye, it is obvious that Weber has regressed. Sure, our o-line doesn't help matters any, but it's not like they're any worse than last year's version. I'm not saying put Weber on the bench and never let him see the field again (I think only a select few are of that mindset) but let Gray see the field more! He's the type of talent that only comes to this University once every few years, at best.

What is also obvious is that the coaching staff has put Weber on a proverbial leash and told him to never, ever, ever run. They could not be more dense in this regard, and if he were allowed to move when able, he could get himself out of some of his self-imposed troubles before they even began.

[thailleagle]

Pryor came in and made an immediate impact while a Senior QB was struggling...so pretty much we're agreeing that Gray isn't as good as Pryor?

[CP Gopher]

I think Gray should be given a chance, and I really like Weber.
The problem: If Decker doesn't make plays, then no one does. We have a guy who's explosive (Gray) and is tough to defend because of his versatility.
No offense to Weber, but he looks slower this year. Has he busted a long run yet?
I liken it to the situation Ohio State had last year. That team was like night and day when they finally made the OB switch. Pryor struggled somewhat, but it turned out to be a good move.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

I agree with DPoll68. While I hate platooning, we need to change SOMETHING. Either let Weber run more (do they have him wearing a shock collar in practice that goes off if he crosses the LoS?) or get Gray in there AND let him throw it occasionally. Did Gray even see the field vs. UW.

Weber has either regressed, or opposing teams have figured out how to defend him better. At least in the past they had to respect his running ability. To be fair to #8, our lack of an OL or a running game haven't helped. But case in point: a few days ago there was a thread about how Weber should pump fake more. I saw him pump fake 3 times on one throw. Unfortunately, he pump faked to the guy he was throwing it to (Stoudemire), who got drilled right as the ball arrived for an incompletion.

Einstein wrote that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. If we continue to run the same offense we'll be lucky to go 3-5 in BT play, with 2-6 being more likely.

[thailleagle]

I agree with DPoll68. While I hate platooning, we need to change SOMETHING. Either let Weber run more (do they have him wearing a shock collar in practice that goes off if he crosses the LoS?) or get Gray in there AND let him throw it occasionally. Did Gray even see the field vs. UW.

Weber has either regressed, or opposing teams have figured out how to defend him better. At least in the past they had to respect his running ability. To be fair to #8, our lack of an OL or a running game haven't helped. But case in point: a few days ago there was a thread about how Weber should pump fake more. I saw him pump fake 3 times on one throw. Unfortunately, he pump faked to the guy he was throwing it to (Stoudemire), who got drilled right as the ball arrived for an incompletion.

Einstein wrote that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. If we continue to run the same offense we'll be lucky to go 3-5 in BT play, with 2-6 being more likely.

Genuis.......

[alpinegopher]

If Gray doesn't play more this week I surely don't see them putting him out there at OSU and PSU. If he can't handle more playing time then they should've redshirted him and hoped like heck that Weber doesn't get hurt. I thought they should've tried to get a juco quarterback last year to be a backup for a couple seasons. Then they could for sure redshirt Alipate and Gray. Colorado and Miami are in this situation and are desperatly trying to get thru the season with one quarterback taking all the snaps.

Gray is vitually running the same plays that Stoudamire could be.

Weber hasn't run the same since he had the minor knee surgery in the middle of last season. Somewhere around the Northwestern or Illinois game.

[husker70]

What we need is a QB who can throw on time. Weber keeps scanning the field and heaves it to Decker or is sacked. The practice time should focus on his favorite throws that he can excute on 5, 7 step drops. Those in the shot gun. Now, at those distances where are Stoudemier, Hoese, Green, Bennett or Eskridge, and Tow Arnett. I would bet even money on every play one of the above is wide open and yet he throws to Decker in double, even triple coverage. Its a testament to Decker's ability, and Webers inablity. 30 plus starts and all he can really do is throw it to Decker.

He is a Junior with over 25 starts and this is what its come to. The staff has tied its wagon to Weber rather that than an identity. And by design he no longer is a threat to run.


We are a severly limited offense. We are beyond one dimensional. If I am defending the Gophers I would double team Decker every play, and blitz. There is no run threat. Make Weber beat you.

And for those who want to castisgate Cosgrove, we had two picks one which yielded directly or indirectly 14 points. The offense is miserable. We cann't run, and we can throw.

You cannot win on talent alone. You either have to design your team around the talent. Or use the talent in your system. Can anyone tell me if we are doing either?

[Bayfieldgopher]

doddoll68: Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.

Yep. The same one who tossed 19 INT's, a BT passing efficiency of 116 and ranked in the bottom 1/3 of D-1 QB's, sacrificed his body, was overused as the main runner and ran for his life. Great learning experience.

[GoGophers2005]

This argument has nothing to do with Weber.
Gray is our best running back period.

Gray=1 play vs. Wisconsin? To me that equals an unorganized OC that didn't have a game plan.
Don't put him in at all if its just 1 play. Gray should be touching the ball at least 10 times a game.

So are you telling me that Eskridge is better than Gray? Out of your friggin mind.


AND IF I SEE WEBER OUT AT WR WHEN GRAY COMES IN AT QB I AM GOING TO PUKE. Weber is NO THREAT whatsoever out there. Stoudermire and Pittman both were QB's and both could lap Weber on a 40 yard dash.

The whold point on bringing Gray into the game is athleticism and matchups. Imagine the mismatches bringing in Hayo, Decker, Whaley, Stoudermire, Pittman, Green into the game? Put guys in motion to freeze LB's and speed rushers on the DE for extra protection.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

[QUOTE=husker70;104284]What we need is a QB who can throw on time. Weber keeps scanning the field and heaves it to Decker or is sacked. QUOTE]

If it wasn't for Decker one could make a very valid argument that this team would be 0-5, rather than 3-2. Certainly no better than 1-4.

[dpodoll68]

doddoll68: Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.

Yep. The same one who tossed 19 INT's, a BT passing efficiency of 116 and ranked in the bottom 1/3 of D-1 QB's, sacrificed his body, was overused as the main runner and ran for his life. Great learning experience.

'07 Weber: 3,512 yds total offense, 24 TDs passing, 19 INT, 5 TDs rushing, 120.8 passer rating

'09 Weber (on-pace statistics): 2,633 yds total offense, 14 TDs passing, 14 INT, 0 TDs rushing, 122.9 passer rating

Of course you're going to focus on the turnovers. But if you tell me that you wouldn't take an additional 5 INTs at the expense of almost 1,000 yards of offense and 15 TDs, then you are a complete and total idiot.

Face it: Weber is no better, and probably worse, than he was as a RS freshman.

[jmag21]

I'm on board. Give Gray some time to learn on the job. I've seen more than enough from Weber. Although, frankly, I'm not sure exactly how to assign the blame between the horrid o-line play, Weber's inability to find the open man, throw the ball away, or scramble, and the coaching staff's sometimes incredibly awful game planning and play calling. From what I've seen, though, I think Weber is at best a slightly below mediocre D-1 qb, who's been incredibly lucky to be throwing to one of the best Minnesota receivers of all time.

[steffyboy]

This argument has nothing to do with Weber.
Gray is our best running back period.

Gray=1 play vs. Wisconsin? To me that equals an unorganized OC that didn't have a game plan.
Don't put him in at all if its just 1 play. Gray should be touching the ball at least 10 times a game.

So are you telling me that Eskridge is better than Gray? Out of your friggin mind.


AND IF I SEE WEBER OUT AT WR WHEN GRAY COMES IN AT QB I AM GOING TO PUKE. Weber is NO THREAT whatsoever out there. Stoudermire and Pittman both were QB's and both could lap Weber on a 40 yard dash.

The whold point on bringing Gray into the game is athleticism and matchups. Imagine the mismatches bringing in Hayo, Decker, Whaley, Stoudermire, Pittman, Green into the game? Put guys in motion to freeze LB's and speed rushers on the DE for extra protection.

I think the Gray issue is sad. If anyone saw that scrimmage last spring he was off the charts good and in that game he wasn't allowed to run. He looked heads above Weber that day. When I spoke with Brewster at a golf outing I was stunned when he told me "He'll play some" to which I replied I must have had a different vantage point because I hadn't seen that kind of talent in a while.

At the minimum, Gray should be getting similar time to what Michael Robinson (the guy who plastered Owens) received at Penn St a few years back where they split time. He started out getting couple of series a game and I would be fine with that. Robinson eventually won that battle and is now a serviceable backup RB at San Fran.

The Weber situation is tough because I hear he's a good leader and he hasn't had a real chance to grow with any offense, as he's seen three seperate systems each year. While he has shown flashes of brilliance, for the most part he has been a one-dimensional drop back passer who has trouble making more than one read. I also think our horrible offensive line is a huge part to Weber's demise, because for the most part he has had zero time. (This is a whole other topic but can we just get rid of Wills. Just because you have size doesn't translate into being able to play RT.)

I like your call on Weber lining up at WR when Gray is in the game. IT IS A TOTAL WASTE OF A MAN. Gray is perfectly capable of throwing the ball. If anything, line Gray up at WR with Stoudamire at QB.

I've also heard through several sources in the program that the Weber situation is sensitive because of his family ties to the U and their relationships with Brew. (I don't know if I believe this, it is just what I hear. The problem is that as I see less and less of Gray, I have to wonder why? It doesn't make sense).

Anyway, the way I see it, give Gray a couple of series per game so we can see how far he is along. His talent is way to high to be riding the pine. A running QB like Gray would give Big 10 D's fits.

[MaxyJR1]

This argument has nothing to do with Weber.
Gray is our best running back period.

Gray=1 play vs. Wisconsin? To me that equals an unorganized OC that didn't have a game plan.
Don't put him in at all if its just 1 play. Gray should be touching the ball at least 10 times a game.

So are you telling me that Eskridge is better than Gray? Out of your friggin mind.


AND IF I SEE WEBER OUT AT WR WHEN GRAY COMES IN AT QB I AM GOING TO PUKE. Weber is NO THREAT whatsoever out there. Stoudermire and Pittman both were QB's and both could lap Weber on a 40 yard dash.

The whold point on bringing Gray into the game is athleticism and matchups. Imagine the mismatches bringing in Hayo, Decker, Whaley, Stoudermire, Pittman, Green into the game? Put guys in motion to freeze LB's and speed rushers on the DE for extra protection.

Not a bad idea. I would like to see Gray at QB with Weber off the field for 2-4 series a game starting this week. It only will help the future of this program. I'm not a fan of wasted eligibility.

[monk10]

This is starting to remind me of the Sims -- Applewhite discussions that ended up dominating every game thread for the longhorns.

[scools12]

Pryor came in and made an immediate impact while a Senior QB was struggling...so pretty much we're agreeing that Gray isn't as good as Pryor?

Which one is better has nothing to do with this. Pryor's situation and Gray's situation are completely different.

Pryor had a better O-Line, Beanie Wills, Brian Robiskie and Brian Hartline on his team and a top defense. Ohio St wasn't asking Pryor to win the game on his own. Other than Decker who on the Gopehrs offense is comparable to what Pryor had? Stoudemeier and Green look like they have a chance but to put a freshman QB in with this O-Line and still a defense that needs help and expect him to win games for you is asking for failure IMO.

I haven't been a fan of Weber's since he won the starting QB job but he is not the biggest problem on offense. This is Weber's 3rd OC since he has been here. Gray can not fix the real problem which is the O-Line. And who is to say that Gray even understands how to run this offense?

[gopherjay]

Play Gray, play Weber when...our running backs learn how to block. I see that they have no idea who to block or how to block. There would be no discussion about our QB play if we could protect the passer.

[littlebigboy]

Almost everyone, except Brewster seems to agree that Grey should be thrown in for experience and a change up, and that Weber has his strengths in leadership and toughness, but reading and adjusting to different receivers is beyound his capability. Brewsteris starting to remind me of Mason once he gets something in his head there is no way in hell he is going to change. I like Brewster and the direction of the program, but he has to learn to take a step back and adjust. Joe Pa was once asked how he was able to hold on so long, and he said "not being so bull headed to think I know everything, and being able to adjust".

[thailleagle]

Which one is better has nothing to do with this. Pryor's situation and Gray's situation are completely different.

Pryor had a better O-Line, Beanie Wills, Brian Robiskie and Brian Hartline on his team and a top defense. Ohio St wasn't asking Pryor to win the game on his own. Other than Decker who on the Gopehrs offense is comparable to what Pryor had? Stoudemeier and Green look like they have a chance but to put a freshman QB in with this O-Line and still a defense that needs help and expect him to win games for you is asking for failure IMO.

I haven't been a fan of Weber's since he won the starting QB job but he is not the biggest problem on offense. This is Weber's 3rd OC since he has been here. Gray can not fix the real problem which is the O-Line. And who is to say that Gray even understands how to run this offense?

Pryor had the same thing Boekman had so I don't see that as a valid point........

My whole point is not whether Gray this or Gray that...I just want to *SEE* it, let him play, he either is gonna be good or isn't at this point but just freaking give him a series, is that really that much to ask?

[Ole]

Pryor had the same thing Boekman had so I don't see that as a valid point........

My whole point is not whether Gray this or Gray that...I just want to *SEE* it, let him play, he either is gonna be good or isn't at this point but just freaking give him a series, is that really that much to ask?

Kinda like his first play in D1 football, we were all waiting to *SEE* him all offseason, all year, his first play, nice speed to the corner and .... ..... Fumble! Oh man!
He needs time people. Hope for a blowout against SDSU.

[thailleagle]

Kinda like his first play in D1 football, we were all waiting to *SEE* him all offseason, all year, his first play, nice speed to the corner and .... ..... Fumble! Oh man!
He needs time people. Hope for a blowout against SDSU.

Yet we're still seeing him run that same play right?

[scools12]

Pryor had the same thing Boekman had so I don't see that as a valid point........

My whole point is not whether Gray this or Gray that...I just want to *SEE* it, let him play, he either is gonna be good or isn't at this point but just freaking give him a series, is that really that much to ask?

It is a valid point because you are comparing Pryor to Gray not Pryor to the other QB on Ohio St.

Again how to you know that Gray can even run the offense? And you have seem him play. He fumbled on his first carry of his college career, had some nice runs against Northwestern and may just throw an interception on the first pass of his career. If Gray was ready for more playing time he would and will get it. As of right now by the way he is being used I think it is safe to assume he isn't ready for that as of yet.

[GoAUpher]

Pryor had the same thing Boekman had so I don't see that as a valid point........

All this means is that Pryor > Boekman. When you compare Gray to Pryor those other factors (OL, RB, etc) are exactly the point and very relevant. What you are saying here defies any sense of logic.

[CP Gopher]

Pryor and Boekman had the same weapons to use. Pryor was better.
Gray and Weber have the same weapons to use, and it's up for debate who is better.
While the SITUATIONS are similar, it's not about a comparison between the ability of Gray and Pryor, but whether Gray should get a shot as OUR quarterback.
I think he should.
All this talk that he "might throw an interception on his first pass" is ridiculous. Does this mean he'll never get to throw a pass?
I just think the offense needs a jumpstart, and a QB with a little mobility will make the system less predictable. Decker may not get as many looks, but we might be able to put more points on the board.
It's also amazing what a little lift from the offense will do for the morale of our defense.
With Weber we go 7-5 at best. With Gray we go 7-5 at best.
Give him a chance.

[thailleagle]

Pryor and Boekman had the same weapons to use. Pryor was better.
Gray and Weber have the same weapons to use, and it's up for debate who is better.
While the SITUATIONS are similar, it's not about a comparison between the ability of Gray and Pryor, but whether Gray should get a shot as OUR quarterback.
I think he should.
All this talk that he "might throw an interception on his first pass" is ridiculous. Does this mean he'll never get to throw a pass?
I just think the offense needs a jumpstart, and a QB with a little mobility will make the system less predictable. Decker may not get as many looks, but we might be able to put more points on the board.
It's also amazing what a little lift from the offense will do for the morale of our defense.
With Weber we go 7-5 at best. With Gray we go 7-5 at best.
Give him a chance.

Which is all I think we're asking.......

[alphagopher]

the margin for error was greater for pryor last year, because he had talent all around him to offset his errors--obviously we have little to no margin in that area!

that said-we still need to play gray more and give the offense some added punch and variability--the run threat from him is huge and will give defense fits as was mentioned--to hell with any political considerations mentioned earlier-brew must know that he needs to win now baby, and if he does that, these types of issues are null and void.

weber still starts, but gray plays more, each and every series. what a waste he is on the sideline. he will make mistakes, of course, but how is that any different from the status quo with weber?

[CP Gopher]

Again, the comparison is not between the ability of Gray and Pryor. Their CIRCUMSTANCES regarding playing time are similar, nothing else.
Our offense, when Decker isn't involved, has been dismal for most of the season.
Why not use a nationally-coveted player with extraordianary potential when the best outcome is likely to be another mid-tier bowl?
I agree with the previous post. It's a complete waste to have him standing on the sideline.

[denguegopher]

STUPID:rolleyes:

The coaches would have had him playing by now if he was ready.
Downsides include:
INT's, injuries(our Oline is not just going to block better overnight), bad habit forming(happy feet... see Weber after running for his life for three years, and overall less chance to gain chemistry and ultimately win. Are you ok with a 4-8, 5-7 season with Gray? or a 6, 7 , 8 win season with Weber?

OK, here's what I don't get. Why are some people so unwilling to let Gray show what he can do while being more than willing to let Weber re-prove (will get his 31 start this week) what he can't do? You say the coaches know better. Well, Brewster said that he had a PhD in football when he got here. My observation is that he's ABD at best and needs some additional coursework.

[GophersInIowa]

[QUOTE=dpodoll68;104253]Oh, you mean the Weber that threw 24 TDs? Heavens no. God forbid, we'd never want to see that Weber again.:rolleyes:

QUOTE]

1. He did that on a bad team that were getting blown out a lot. It's easier to put up good numbers in blow out situations because the defense sits in more of a prevent with subs in.

2. He also threw 19 interceptions and completed 58% of his passes.

[GophersInIowa]

Pryor came in and made an immediate impact while a Senior QB was struggling...so pretty much we're agreeing that Gray isn't as good as Pryor?

Yep, this Gophers offense is just as talented as Ohio State's last year. We have a good offensive line just like they did and there's no doubt Eskridge will be as good as Beanie Wells. :rolleyes: Two completely different situations.

Do I think Gray should play a little more? Yes, but I don't think he should be the starter right now.

[dpodoll68]

1. He did that on a bad team that were getting blown out a lot. It's easier to put up good numbers in blow out situations because the defense sits in more of a prevent with subs in.

2. He also threw 19 interceptions and completed 58% of his passes.

1. NOPE. That is a (seemingly) common misconception about the 2007 season. No doubt we were a terrible team, but we didn't get blown out all that often. Six of our losses were by a TD or less, and three were by a FG or less. Look it up if you don't believe me.

2. INTs are bad if that's all you do. I can handle a lot of interceptions if the guy throws more TDs than picks (in this case, five more). Not to mention the fact that, as I've already said, Weber accounted for almost 1,000 more yards of offense and 15 more TDs than he's on pace for this season.

Also, your completion % stats are wrong. He completed 57.5% of his passes that year, and is completing 57.2% this year. I fail to see your point in bringing that up. It is simply another example of how he's regressed.

I'm all in favor of using statistics, but generally your statistics should favor your own stance, not prove the other guy's point for him.

[thailleagle]

Yep, this Gophers offense is just as talented as Ohio State's last year. We have a good offensive line just like they did and there's no doubt Eskridge will be as good as Beanie Wells. :rolleyes: Two completely different situations.

Do I think Gray should play a little more? Yes, but I don't think he should be the starter right now.

Just let the kid play...is it really that complicated? Everybody keeps talking about how Weber leads these "Comebacks" in games where WE'RE THE ONES BLOWING LEADS.......

Last year? We blew a 24-13 lead against Northern Illinois, this year we blew a 13-3 lead against Syracuse and a 21-10 lead against Northwestern, games we should've never trailed in the first place.......

[GoGophers2005]

I think using Gray will HELP Weber out. Maybe take some of the pressure off of his shoulders. I really think on some of his throws he has put so much pressure on himself to make a play and he tries to do too much (the INT at the end of Cal).

I also think using Gray more will in some ways keep the defenses guessing. I'd like to see Gray come in and run a few plays, then bring Weber in with some no huddle.

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

Refresh my memory on one thing. Everyone can agree that Gray was a highly recruited QB coming out of HS. Not nearly as much as Pryor, but then again, we're not tOSU, SCum, or PSU either. Weber was one of Mason's recruits, but were any other BT schools after him? If so, we're they recruiting him as a QB or as an "athlete"? While Gray has not had the opportunity to show he has the potential of Pryor, Weber after 30+ starts has yet to demonstrate he has the ability of Boeckman. Who was a good pocket passer, but the wrong guy for the other talent tOSU had.

[magpie]

Weber was one of Mason's recruits, but were any other BT schools after him? If so, we're they recruiting him as a QB or as an "athlete"?

Weber was a "dual threat QB" with offers from Minnesota, Wisconsin, W Michigan, Miami (OH).

Since his injury, Weber no longer has the running ability, IMHO.

[magpie]

1. NOPE. That is a (seemingly) common misconception about the 2007 season. No doubt we were a terrible team, but we didn't get blown out all that often. Six of our losses were by a TD or less, and three were by a FG or less. Look it up if you don't believe me.

2. INTs are bad if that's all you do. I can handle a lot of interceptions if the guy throws more TDs than picks (in this case, five more). Not to mention the fact that, as I've already said, Weber accounted for almost 1,000 more yards of offense and 15 more TDs than he's on pace for this season.

Also, your completion % stats are wrong. He completed 57.5% of his passes that year, and is completing 57.2% this year. I fail to see your point in bringing that up. It is simply another example of how he's regressed.

I'm all in favor of using statistics, but generally your statistics should favor your own stance, not prove the other guy's point for him.

To add to your conversation, Weber ranks 11th in the Big Ten (out of 12 QB's with playing time) in QB rating and completion percentage, and he's tied for second most interceptions thrown. The numbers say one thing, but to compete in the Big Ten, they need to essentially be better than the competitions.

EDIT: and Decker leads the Big Ten in receptions, receiving TD's, and waaay ahead in total yards. So take him out, and Weber looks ungodly by comparison. He may be good -- but the rest of the Big Ten has someone way more effective. Time for Gray.

[thailleagle]

To add to your conversation, Weber ranks 11th in the Big Ten (out of 12 QB's with playing time) in QB rating and completion percentage, and he's tied for second most interceptions thrown. The numbers say one thing, but to compete in the Big Ten, they need to essentially be better than the competitions.

EDIT: and Decker leads the Big Ten in receptions, receiving TD's, and waaay ahead in total yards. So take him out, and Weber looks ungodly by comparison. He may be good -- but the rest of the Big Ten has someone way more effective. Time for Gray.

The Weberians don't like Statistics.......

[GophersInIowa]

1. NOPE. That is a (seemingly) common misconception about the 2007 season. No doubt we were a terrible team, but we didn't get blown out all that often. Six of our losses were by a TD or less, and three were by a FG or less. Look it up if you don't believe me.

2. INTs are bad if that's all you do. I can handle a lot of interceptions if the guy throws more TDs than picks (in this case, five more). Not to mention the fact that, as I've already said, Weber accounted for almost 1,000 more yards of offense and 15 more TDs than he's on pace for this season.

Also, your completion % stats are wrong. He completed 57.5% of his passes that year, and is completing 57.2% this year. I fail to see your point in bringing that up. It is simply another example of how he's regressed.

I'm all in favor of using statistics, but generally your statistics should favor your own stance, not prove the other guy's point for him.

Yeah, I just reread your post, and I obviously didn't read it close enough. My bad

[AhliBobwa]

'There is absolutely no reason why Gray cannot play more than he has been over the course of the season. I thought the Northwestern game was a sign of things to come, that his role would steadily increase, and that by the end of the season, he would be taking 25-30% of the snaps, and (gasp!) throwing the ball once in a while! The few times he has seen the field he has been absolutely electric, and many of us would like to see more of that.'
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/images/smilies/clap.gif

There is no reason why Gray can't take the field to run and execute simple pass plays in high percentage situations. There is also no reason why Gray can't run a series or two in the first half of games. Webber is a seasoned vet and shouldn't be thrown off by this. If anything it should inspire him to play better. Gray is too good to deny him game experience. The Gophers are not good enough to keep arguably their most dynamic talent on the bench.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BENCH WEBBER TO PLAY GRAY

[breadtree]

Once again, I ask this board: raise your hand if you've seen Gray throw a pass. Keep in mind that he didn't play football for a year. I think every fan base gets really wrapped up in recruiting rankings and just assumes that those players will become instant stars at the next level. Remember that Jake Christensen was a 4 star recruit and was the #2 dual-threat QB prospect in the country. How did that work out?

There is no question that Weber is not very good. But Gray clearly must not be ready and it's not that hard to believe.

[monk10]

There is no question that Weber is not very good.

Just b/c a lot of people say this. It doesn't mean it is true.

[wdgold]

Let's not forget our inept defense that gave up 31pts to Wisconsin. Everyone wants to rip the offense and although they have their problems the defense is the bigger problem.

[AhliBobwa]

I saw the spring game. Gray threw an effortless 70 yd bomb and hit a receiver in stride. He made great plays in the short to mid range passing game as well. He IS the real deal. (Although to be fair, he seemed to regress in the fall scrimmage).

[chri1673]

Just let the kid play...is it really that complicated? Everybody keeps talking about how Weber leads these "Comebacks" in games where WE'RE THE ONES BLOWING LEADS.......

Last year? We blew a 24-13 lead against Northern Illinois, this year we blew a 13-3 lead against Syracuse and a 21-10 lead against Northwestern, games we should've never trailed in the first place.......

Your right and holding a lead to an inferior opponent has nothing to do with the inability to run the ball..,.

[thailleagle]

Your right and holding a lead to an inferior opponent has nothing to do with the inability to run the ball..,.

How building the lead bigger instead of going into conservative mode?

[NewEngland_Gold]

I didn't realize Weber ranks 11th out of 12 BT qb's with substantial PT. That's troubling when Deck is factored in as the #1 receiver in the conference...absolutely sobering looking ahead to next year because Weber's main task on the field is simply getting the ball in the hands of our best/speed playmakers with some reasonable consistency.

At some point in the not too distant future, I expect Brew to have some coaching answers because he certainly doesn't seem to be doing much gameday on-the-field prep work right now with Gray to address that problem as many have pointed out.

Maybe ardent Brew GHers can tell give us some insight about what he's planning as the season rolls on and especially for next year in the qb area re Weber and Gray.

[dpodoll68]

Just b/c a lot of people say this. It doesn't mean it is true.

You really have to be clubbed over the head to believe a point, don't you?

I can show you tons of statistics to prove this point, whether they be:

- counting stats (yards, TDs, completion %, passer rating)

- W/L

- comparison to other QBs in D-IA in general, and the Big Ten in particular

All will show you that Weber is a very mediocre QB at best, and a terrible one at worst. I defy you to show me any statistics, or personal observations, or whatever matrix you desire to use, that says otherwise.

He will end up with a lot of Minnesota career records by virtue of the fact that he will (likely) be a four-year starter. This is largely due to the realization that what has traditionally been a running school has now become a passing school - both because of scheme and because we haven't had even one decent RB his entire career. But even these records will not make him a good QB.

[upchurch]

I love the guys who say Gray isn't ready. They base this on faith in Brewster's football intelligence. That hasn't been proven yet. he has made many, many mistakes in game management and talent analysis (Harold Howell as a case in point). He keeps telling us how great Gray is so why not play him?

[UptownMaroon&Gold]

I think Gray is bound to bust a long run at some point, hopefully this week. When he takes one to the house from 80 yards out, zigzagging through the boiler D, it'll be hard to keep out of any other games this year. But I think we still need Weber, and we need his leadership, which includes Adam supporting us going to some kind of Weber70/Gray30 system. Gotta let Gray starts throwing some high percentage passes though, he is the future right?

[RedPoo]

I love the guys who say Gray isn't ready. They base this on faith in Brewster's football intelligence. That hasn't been proven yet. he has made many, many mistakes in game management and talent analysis (Harold Howell as a case in point). He keeps telling us how great Gray is so why not play him?


So you're saying that the collective analysis of a handful of rubes who watched the spring game means more to you than the opinion of a group of football professionals whose careers depend on their making the correct decision? Professionals who have been watching both of these kids throw and run the offense, side by side, for months?
These guys know these two players and their respective games better than anyone in the world...we know what we saw in a handful of practices.


I get that people want to see what Gray can do, but Brewster doesn't 'owe you a couple series' or a chance to see the difference for yourself. He doesn't have to demonstrate to everyone why he's doing what he's doing. He owes it to you to put the best team he has out on the field. Can someone please give me one piece of evidence that he isn't doing that?

Seriously...we all know the kind of promise Gray shows. Think about the possible reasons we wouldn't be playing him. Does Weber have some incriminating pictures of a coach? Did Grey lose his eyesight in a freak accident?? Is the Mafia forcing Brewster into keeping Weber in to control the point spread??? Or maybe the coaching staff thinks Weber is just the better option.

[tikited]

I love the guys who say Gray isn't ready. They base this on faith in Brewster's football intelligence. That hasn't been proven yet. he has made many, many mistakes in game management and talent analysis (Harold Howell as a case in point). He keeps telling us how great Gray is so why not play him?

I love the guys who say Gray is ready to start. They base this on faith in their own football intelligence. None has been proven yet. They keep talking about practice and spring games. They keep telling us Webber sucks but yet the coaches still play him over an untested freshman.

[WAGopher]

The question is, do you want to take a chance and ruin Gray by having him get shell shocked behind an o-line with problems? I know I don't. Next year is going to be a different story because Gray will know the offense better and therefore will have a better chance to be successful. I expect there to be a QB battle for the starting job next year, and I won't be surprised if Gray wins the job. I hope we get a comfortable lead against PU so Gray can get in for a full series or 2. That will go a long way in his development and may lead to some more snaps in closer games down the road. Developing a QB is usually about progression, and yes I know there are exceptions.

[RedPoo]

The question is, do you want to take a chance and ruin Gray by having him get shell shocked behind an o-line with problems? I know I don't. Next year is going to be a different story because Gray will know the offense better and therefore will have a better chance to be successful. I expect there to be a QB battle for the starting job next year, and I won't be surprised if Gray wins the job. I hope we get a comfortable lead against PU so Gray can get in for a full series or 2. That will go a long way in his development and may lead to some more snaps in closer games down the road. Developing a QB is usually about progression, and yes I know there are exceptions.

Well said

[denguegopher]

I love the guys who say Gray is ready to start. They base this on faith in their own football intelligence. None has been proven yet. They keep talking about practice and spring games. They keep telling us Webber sucks but yet the coaches still play him over an untested freshman.

If Gray never plays there will be no way to "prove it." The issue is that Weber (who I do not think is bad at all) is getting his 31st? chance to prove that he's a big time QB this weekend. I'm still waiting for him to prove it. He has passed for a lot of yards, but anyone who starts for 2 1/2 years will have a lot of passing yards. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that Weber is a nice person and he has been a warrior for the Gophers, but I don;t think that that means he should automatically start for 4 years. Go Gophers!