Kevin Love

[coolhandgopher]

I know he has his critics on here, and all I have to go on is box scores (don't know if I'd be watching the Wolves much more if I was in St. Paul though), but he's turning out to be quite the rebounding machine, isn't he? Four of last five games in double figures, with 15, 15, 14 the last three games.

I also know many people regard the O.J. Mayo trade with disdain, and even though Mayo's NBA career is of to a great start, he still strikes me as a guy who will get him points but not elevate the team around him-a poor man's Vince Carter. Mayo seems a guy destined to play out his rookie contract and sprint for the biggest media market that will take him.

[Zeppelin Gopher]

KLove is one of the best offensive rebounders I've ever seen. The dude has a motor that never stops.

[Goph4phan]

KL has the motor of Mad Dog and Matt Harpring combined. As I stated in another thread, this trade is starting to really grow on me. OJ Mayo never wanted to step foot in MN and KL was as excited as ever to get things going. I like that kind of enthusiasm. Once KL bulks up a little bit and actually gets on a workout plan long enough to see results, watch out. I guy can always get bigger, stronger, faster but they'll never lose that knack for finding the basketball. That's what most excites me.

[bga1]

KL has the motor of Mad Dog and Matt Harpring combined. As I stated in another thread, this trade is starting to really grow on me. OJ Mayo never wanted to step foot in MN and KL was as excited as ever to get things going. I like that kind of enthusiasm. Once KL bulks up a little bit and actually gets on a workout plan long enough to see results, watch out. I guy can always get bigger, stronger, faster but they'll never lose that knack for finding the basketball. That's what most excites me.


"Bulks up?" If you simply mean adding muscle, I'll agree with you. Although he is already strong as an ox. But my concern is that he needs to lose weight. He is huge. His biggest issue is getting lift off the floor. If he can get a little more ups to him he would get a ton of putback baskets and three point plays. I like the guy. Right now it looks like we missed on Mayo but it may be that Love is better for the long term and a guy the team can build a winning attitude around.

[jamiche]

Love is a hustle guy without a lot of natural ability. He rebounds well but can't get his shot off near the basket. He has a lot of opportunity to board because we miss a lot of shots and Al doesn't want to work hard on the offensive glass.

It's hard to say if this will be the worst of a lot of bad trades but it certainly will be close.

[JimmyJamesMD]

Jamiche, let me change what you said, a little. Love is a hustle guy with out a lot of natural athletic ability.

He has sound fundamentals, and will show he has a post game once he gets some plays called for him. And yes he hustles, all of his rebounds are coming from hustle.

At best, he's going to be the top big men off of the bench.
At best, Mayo is going to be an all-star.

At the position they were in, with the top #3 overall pick, the Wolves needed to shoot for the stars. With the trade, their intention was to free up cap space for 2010. But no top players want to come here, so you have to draft them. They had to know Love wouldn't be a star, thats why you hold the Mayo.

Then they said Mike Miller was a big part of the deal. Sorry, but Miller is the type of player that makes a good team better, but does nothing for a bad team.

Yes, K-Love is getting a lot of rebounds, but anything that comes hard off the rim, he can't get to due to his lack of athleticism. He can't get his shots off, he can't play good D. Is this a player you want on the court during crunch time? I think not.

K-Love will always be too limited to be a star. This will go down as yet another bad trade. (Unless miraclously, they land D-Wade, or Bosh, or some star in 09 or 10.)

[Ogee Oglethorpe]

... who are the Wolves going to sign in the 2009 or 2010 free agent market with all the money they will have available?

Let's not forget, one of the main "wins" of the Mayo/Love trade was dumping the horrible contracts of Antoine Walker and Marko Jaric.

That being said, I hope we tank it seriously this year and bring home a top 2 or top 3 pick.

Here's hoping it's an incredibly deep draft since we could have as many as 4 first rounders if I recall correctly.

[jamiche]

There are several times that are lining up their cap money for 2010. Nobody who is anybody is coming to the tundra.

[tikited]

There are several times that are lining up their cap money for 2010. Nobody who is anybody is coming to the tundra.

The only free agents that would consider coming here would have to be grossly overpaid. If guys wouldn't come here when KG was here they certainly won't come here now.

[jamiche]

Nobody agrees with me but I would trade Jefferson (he's the only one on the roster who has much value) for a couple of first rounders and an expring contract or two to even out the money. The only way that the wolves are going to rebuild within five years is through the draft. Free agents aren't coming here and our trade options are limited because we don't have players that other teams want.

[tikited]

Nobody agrees with me but I would trade Jefferson (he's the only one on the roster who has much value) for a couple of first rounders and an expring contract or two to even out the money. The only way that the wolves are going to rebuild within five years is through the draft. Free agents aren't coming here and our trade options are limited because we don't have players that other teams want.

We can do that and still keep Jefferson. We have a lottery pick coming next draft. The Miami pick should be decent. We also have two late 1rst rounders with Utah's and the Boston pick. We only owe the Clippers a pick in the future. If the dolts at First Ave. can actually make a good pick or two--we have a chance to right the ship.

[Roy Christensen]

If the dolts at First Ave. can actually make a good pick or two--we have a chance to right the ship.

IF wolves history is an indicator then that (making good picks) almost certainly will not happen.

[bga1]

JJMD - I tend to agree with you, but I wouldn't count Love out as a possible upper echelon player. he's got tremendous desire and he has the ability to shoot from outside. I would say that absolutely nobody thought McHale (for instance) would be a Hall of Famer based on just athletic ability but he made up for it with toughness and an incredible craftiness around the bucket. Love is barely 20 years old -if that.......

They will have their shot at fixing the team for the long term with whatever they do in next year's draft. (5 picks in the first 34) Also, we forget but the European kid they drafted last year is labeled by some as a sure thing. The only reason he didn't go first round is because he is under contract for another year over there.

[BleedGopher]

Good column from Reusse revisiting the Love/Mayo trade.

Love is putting up some amazing numbers, although we continue to blow big leads that even Glen Mason would be aghast at.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/111570229.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUi D3aPc:_Yyc:aUgOy9cP3DieyckcUsI

Howl Wolves!!

[Schlic Daddy]

Mayo really isn't that great. He doesn't even start for Memphis (I saw him play the Nuggets here in Denver on Sunday). He didn't stand out at all in the game.

Looks like Love has been phenomenal this season.

[Section2]

Jamiche, let me change what you said, a little. Love is a hustle guy with out a lot of natural athletic ability.

He has sound fundamentals, and will show he has a post game once he gets some plays called for him. And yes he hustles, all of his rebounds are coming from hustle.

At best, he's going to be the top big men off of the bench.
At best, Mayo is going to be an all-star.

At the position they were in, with the top #3 overall pick, the Wolves needed to shoot for the stars. With the trade, their intention was to free up cap space for 2010. But no top players want to come here, so you have to draft them. They had to know Love wouldn't be a star, thats why you hold the Mayo.

Then they said Mike Miller was a big part of the deal. Sorry, but Miller is the type of player that makes a good team better, but does nothing for a bad team.

Yes, K-Love is getting a lot of rebounds, but anything that comes hard off the rim, he can't get to due to his lack of athleticism. He can't get his shots off, he can't play good D. Is this a player you want on the court during crunch time? I think not.

K-Love will always be too limited to be a star. This will go down as yet another bad trade. (Unless miraclously, they land D-Wade, or Bosh, or some star in 09 or 10.)

Yikes. Sucks having this post in the permanent record.

[jamiche]

After watching most of the last couple of games I'm glad this thread was resurrected. (I watched last night mostly to see OKC because, as I've said for the umpteenth time, they are my favorite team. Love everything about them. But I digress...) I have to come to the defense of JJMD's post from '08 because it wasn't that far off. Yes, it turns out that Mayo has done nothing so chalk up a rare good trade for McHale. Yes, Love is collecting rebounds by the bushel but there are two areas where he is really hurting the team. He really ought to try giving defense a shot every once in a while. It doesn't do much good to score 20 when the guys you guard go for 30 every night. That is why Rambis sat him so much last year and it is still a problem. Secondly, he could be much more effective offensively if he saw himself as a complimentary player. I'll bet that he scores most of his baskets (not FT's) in the first half when defenses are more lax. When defense tightens late in the game and he tries to take the ball inside, he gets killed. Last night he didn't get any calls late because the refs correctly saw it as a mismatch and they weren't going to bail him out. He would get more points late in games and help the team more by doing it off of the glass instead of calling for the ball.

K-Love's numbers are great but, after seeing a couple of rare televised games, something isn't adding up. The team isn't losing as badly but it is still losing about as often, so he's not making them better. Finally, I'm not sure he would get much more than 15 minutes a night on OKC. Love that team...

[Iceland12]

After watching most of the last couple of games I'm glad this thread was resurrected. (I watched last night mostly to see OKC because, as I've said for the umpteenth time, they are my favorite team. Love everything about them. But I digress...) I have to come to the defense of JJMD's post from '08 because it wasn't that far off. Yes, it turns out that Mayo has done nothing so chalk up a rare good trade for McHale. Yes, Love is collecting rebounds by the bushel but there are two areas where he is really hurting the team. He really ought to try giving defense a shot every once in a while. It doesn't do much good to score 20 when the guys you guard go for 30 every night. That is why Rambis sat him so much last year and it is still a problem. Secondly, he could be much more effective offensively if he saw himself as a complimentary player. I'll bet that he scores most of his baskets (not FT's) in the first half when defenses are more lax. When defense tightens late in the game and he tries to take the ball inside, he gets killed. Last night he didn't get any calls late because the refs correctly saw it as a mismatch and they weren't going to bail him out. He would get more points late in games and help the team more by doing it off of the glass instead of calling for the ball.

K-Love's numbers are great but, after seeing a couple of rare televised games, something isn't adding up. The team isn't losing as badly but it is still losing about as often, so he's not making them better. Finally, I'm not sure he would get much more than 15 minutes a night on OKC. Love that team...

Still say that Kevin Love is Wes Unseld without 30 pounds and with a jump shot.

What they need are a healthy Webster, Flynn and Darko, and yeah I didn't think I'd ever type Darko there either. He's become an eraser in the middle, much like Ibaka was last night. Darko now has earned respect on the Offensive end too. He allows Love more space underneath and gives both Love and Beasley the freedom to move around. Darko doesn't get hurt and they win the last two games. Hell, without his foul trouble they win the last San Antonio game also;but foul trouble and injuries are part of the game.

It was a revelation listening to the discussion after the Knicks game about how things "turned around" after Darko left and how it gave the Knicks a "chance to win".

This about Darko? In NEW YORK!!:eek:

The high lighted part above? That's another reason that a LOT of people hate the NBA. Jim Peterson whines last night about how Ellington (or Johnson) didn't "take it into his body" on a drive to the basket. He didn't because he wouldn't get the damn call. Love has been getting a few calls. The "they didn't bail him out" part? He was getting bodied big time and those are fouls and not getting called. The NBA sucks on this count. He, like many of the players on the NBA's Washington Generals teams can't just power the ball to the basket without getting fouled. Stars get to go to the line, non-stars get complaints for not getting it done.

That is my personal reason for hating the NBA and we have the NBA League Pass! I say bring back the lousy replacement refs. You know, the guys about who Barkley famously said " They don't know who we are!"

Pro wrestling is more honest then the NBA is. :)

[jamiche]

For the most part I agree with you. Durant is the perfect example as he now gets the call if the opposing player looks at him the wrong way. Last night he shoved Brewer nearly into the third row. No call. Brewer fouled him outside the arc and Durant threw his arms up after the fact and turned a non shooting foul into three FT's. However, I didn't have a problem with the late game non calls under the basket against Love because the refs correctly perceived that he was not capable of scoring in that situation and they weren't going to help him out.

Not sure if I've mentioned this but I love the Thunder. I'm going to move into G4's basement for the playoffs and we'll talk Cardinals, Thunder and not a word about his favorite author. :)

[tikited]

That is my personal reason for hating the NBA and we have the NBA League Pass! I say bring back the lousy replacement refs. You know, the guys about who Barkley famously said " They don't know who we are!"

Pro wrestling is more honest then the NBA is. :)

Right on! I have stated how much I hate all ref's/officials, but the NBA ref's are the worst by far. They simply cheat. The whole idea that you have to earn respect is garbage. The make-up call is garbage. Fire all of them and start over.

P.S. I was wrong on the Mayo trade. I liked Love, but I thought Mayo had the tools to be an all-star. I was way off on that one. I might be off on my assessment of Wesley Johnson. Not such a bad pick right now. I was right on the Corey Brewer pick though. I wanted Y. Noah bad. I still can't stand McHale.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

I don't have a basement, but you can share a huge deck with my three dogs. Sarah has the guest room booked until Jan 2013 when she moves to Washington.

Durant has just about peaked. Westbrook is the one who will get better and better.

[bga1]

After watching most of the last couple of games I'm glad this thread was resurrected. (I watched last night mostly to see OKC because, as I've said for the umpteenth time, they are my favorite team. Love everything about them. But I digress...) I have to come to the defense of JJMD's post from '08 because it wasn't that far off. Yes, it turns out that Mayo has done nothing so chalk up a rare good trade for McHale. Yes, Love is collecting rebounds by the bushel but there are two areas where he is really hurting the team. He really ought to try giving defense a shot every once in a while. It doesn't do much good to score 20 when the guys you guard go for 30 every night. That is why Rambis sat him so much last year and it is still a problem. Secondly, he could be much more effective offensively if he saw himself as a complimentary player. I'll bet that he scores most of his baskets (not FT's) in the first half when defenses are more lax. When defense tightens late in the game and he tries to take the ball inside, he gets killed. Last night he didn't get any calls late because the refs correctly saw it as a mismatch and they weren't going to bail him out. He would get more points late in games and help the team more by doing it off of the glass instead of calling for the ball.

K-Love's numbers are great but, after seeing a couple of rare televised games, something isn't adding up. The team isn't losing as badly but it is still losing about as often, so he's not making them better. Finally, I'm not sure he would get much more than 15 minutes a night on OKC. Love that team...

This team has potential Jamiche (as you ahve optimisticly stated). They are just getting used to each other. Look at the struggles Miami started with and they have three superstars. A really good point guard that knows how to play the game both on offense and defense would do wonders for this outfit. When the game is on the line these guys have trouble finding a way to make a field goal or get a stop. That starts with a good PG. Rubio?

[tikited]

jamiche,

Durant has just about peaked. Westbrook is the one who will get better and better.

You write that like it is a bad thing. I'll take a "peaked" Durant any day. Kid is scary good. In fact, I'd take him over Kobe and Lebron if I could start a team.

[Iceland12]

For the most part I agree with you. Durant is the perfect example as he now gets the call if the opposing player looks at him the wrong way. Last night he shoved Brewer nearly into the third row. No call. Brewer fouled him outside the arc and Durant threw his arms up after the fact and turned a non shooting foul into three FT's. However, I didn't have a problem with the late game non calls under the basket against Love because the refs correctly perceived that he was not capable of scoring in that situation and they weren't going to help him out.

Not sure if I've mentioned this but I love the Thunder. I'm going to move into G4's basement for the playoffs and we'll talk Cardinals, Thunder and not a word about his favorite author. :)

Buddy you and G4 are probably right about the Sonics, uh Thunder. It's on Love and whether he could make the shot or not that gets me mad. I've seen refs signal a shooting foul a thousand times where the shooter just throws the ball somewhere toward the basket and hundreds of times when a someone gets the ball near the ground under the basket tries to go up and gets a foul call. Now the refs are suppose to say "oh HE could have made the shot, FOUL!" or "He couldn't have made the shot, hack away!"

No, you're right at least under the basket they do that to often right now.

That's just wrong but I do remember that Stern's Lone Gunman Betting Ref said they were instructed to play the Star/No Star game. We all know it's true. My favorite T-Wolves examples were when Anthony Peeler was fouled by the Thunder, er Sonics Gary Payton. Payton snapped and got a T. It would have been his SECOND though so he would have been tossed. Payton talked to the ref right in front of the T-Wolves broadcasters. Clear as a bell we listeners heard "You know what this means don't you?" There was a conference and not only was the technical rescinded but Peeler got called with the foul!

The other was a game at Target Center where the Wolves were playing the Lakers. Shaq dribbled while he bumped and pushed Stanley Roberts from above the free throw line down to the basket. No call. I honestly don't remember if Shaq got the basket and a free throw or not.

The Wolves took the ball out and down the court. When they crossed mid-court Derek Fisher was whistled for a foul. Derek was barely NEAR a Wolf let alone fouling one. But he wasn't a star and they DID need to even-up the obvious lack of a call against Shaq.

A foul, is a foul is a foul and it should be called. Who the shooter is shouldn't matter but in the NBA it sure does.

You're a far better man them I am in many ways jamiche, in this case for sure because it just completely ruins my enjoyment of the game.:banghead::banghead:

[Iceland12]

From today's ESPN Chat with John Holinger

John T (Eagan, MN)


When's the last time the NBA had someone who averaged 15 boards a game and shot over 40% on 3s? Kevin Love is unique.
John Hollinger
(2:09 PM)


Um, never? Love is one of the most unique players in league annals. I think he has a real case for the All-Star team, but I guarantee the coaches will shaft him because of the Wolves' record

Hollinger isn't exactly a fan of the Wolves for what it's worth.

[jamiche]

This team has potential Jamiche (as you ahve optimisticly stated). They are just getting used to each other. Look at the struggles Miami started with and they have three superstars. A really good point guard that knows how to play the game both on offense and defense would do wonders for this outfit. When the game is on the line these guys have trouble finding a way to make a field goal or get a stop. That starts with a good PG. Rubio?

I was absurdly, foolishly high on them at the start of the season and they have suffered more than the usual amount of injuries. They are also at least more interesting to watch than last year. However, I'm less sure about the potential and athletic ability than I was. I watch the OKC players fly up and down the court and then I look at Wes Johnson who still seems afraid of his own shadow out there. He plays a strangely passive, careful game. Putting up four shots a night and never putting the ball on the floor is not going to make him an impact player. He's smooth and he looks like an NBA player but he doesn't play like one yet. Their PG play is probably, no not probably--definitely, the worst in the league, going both ways. Westbrook is an exceptional player but he had such free reign last night that he actually looked bored.

Darko has been a pleasant surprise. Beasley can be the fourth best player on a good team and, considering what they gave up to get him, an excellent investment. Love has exceeded expectations, at least on paper, which is why I think it would be the perfect time to trade him. His stock is very high, the wolves could get a lot for him, a team could control his rights for two years after this one, I think. He's an undersized PF who rebounds very well but he's not quite good enough to build a team around. Now is not the time to fall in love with him.

I'm excited to see what Webster can do and it would be interesting to see what the team could do with a full roster. I hope that Rambis gets that opportunity before he loses the club. I would guess that it's a fragile locker room because there can only be so many moral victories, especially with a history of losing by the bushel, before the anger and frustration take hold.

[Ogee Oglethorpe]

I was absurdly, foolishly high on them at the start of the season and they have suffered more than the usual amount of injuries. They are also at least more interesting to watch than last year. However, I'm less sure about the potential and athletic ability than I was. I watch the OKC players fly up and down the court and then I look at Wes Johnson who still seems afraid of his own shadow out there. He plays a strangely passive, careful game. Putting up four shots a night and never putting the ball on the floor is not going to make him an impact player. He's smooth and he looks like an NBA player but he doesn't play like one yet. Their PG play is probably, no not probably--definitely, the worst in the league, going both ways. Westbrook is an exceptional player but he had such free reign last night that he actually looked bored.

Darko has been a pleasant surprise. Beasley can be the fourth best player on a good team and, considering what they gave up to get him, an excellent investment. Love has exceeded expectations, at least on paper, which is why I think it would be the perfect time to trade him. His stock is very high, the wolves could get a lot for him, a team could control his rights for two years after this one, I think. He's an undersized PF who rebounds very well but he's not quite good enough to build a team around. Now is not the time to fall in love with him.

I'm excited to see what Webster can do and it would be interesting to see what the team could do with a full roster. I hope that Rambis gets that opportunity before he loses the club. I would guess that it's a fragile locker room because there can only be so many moral victories, especially with a history of losing by the bushel, before the anger and frustration take hold.

PG is easily the most glaring problem with the team. Yikes. The problem with the PG situation is, I don't know if Flynn is the answer. Fortunately, he should at least be an upgrade over the Ridnour/Telfair situation. Makes you wonder how much of an impact Rubio actually could make? Outside of the TO's, the Wolves also usually have an inordinately low number of assists on a given night. Not good.

I'm reserving judgment until maybe mid-January when hopefully there's a steady rotation of Darko, Love, Beasley, W. Johnson, Flynn, Webster, Pekovic, Brewer, and Ridnour. Barring any more significant injuries, if that core group gets a month or so to play together, they could win some games.

[jamiche]

PG is easily the most glaring problem with the team. Yikes. The problem with the PG situation is, I don't know if Flynn is the answer. Fortunately, he should at least be an upgrade over the Ridnour/Telfair situation. Makes you wonder how much of an impact Rubio actually could make? Outside of the TO's, the Wolves also usually have an inordinately low number of assists on a given night. Not good.

I'm reserving judgment until maybe mid-January when hopefully there's a steady rotation of Darko, Love, Beasley, W. Johnson, Flynn, Webster, Pekovic, Brewer, and Ridnour. Barring any more significant injuries, if that core group gets a month or so to play together, they could win some games.

You are correct. Flynn is not the answer. Unless his game has improved since last year I'm not sure that he's better than Telfair.

[jamiche]

jamiche,

I don't have a basement, but you can share a huge deck with my three dogs. Sarah has the guest room booked until Jan 2013 when she moves to Washington.

Durant has just about peaked. Westbrook is the one who will get better and better.

I can't imagine the lassie would be staying in the guest room for long when visiting a bon vivant like you, G.;)

I think that we are going to see Westbrook and Durant in the finals next June. I would love to see them thrash the Thrice. BTW, I also loved the kid from the Congo. Why did they draft a statue like Aldrich? Players like him belong on the wolves.

[Gopher4Life]

Shortness in the middle led to the draft of Aldrich. He's a project, but should contribute once he understands the pro game.

If the young Thunder sneaks past LA, San Antonio, and Utah, I think they would face the veteran Celtics, not Miami. That could set up a clash between energetic legs and the wiley old pros.