Should have been a technical foul

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Trying to switch who the free throw shooter was on that away from the ball foul should have been an automatic technical on Michigan State. I have seen it called on teams. Izzo should be made to apologize. Not in the spirit of the big ten. Refs got it right but I generally like izzo and lost a bit of respect for him.
 

Agreed. I would have been shocked to have it called on MSU, even at the barn (sigh).
 

Some guy said:
Trying to switch who the free throw shooter was on that away from the ball foul should have been an automatic technical on Michigan State. I have seen it called on teams. Izzo should be made to apologize. Not in the spirit of the big ten. Refs got it right but I generally like izzo and lost a bit of respect for him.
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Meh. I don't particularly like it, but it's not all that uncommon and I don't see a reason to give a tech. Would have no problem with it if the NCAA makes it a rule that it's an automatic technical, but until that happens it's just gamesmanship.
 

bizzle22 said:
Meh. I don't particularly like it, but it's not all that uncommon and I don't see a reason to give a tech. Would have no problem with it if the NCAA makes it a rule that it's an automatic technical, but until that happens it's just gamesmanship.
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disagree. that's not gamesmanship, it's cheating and disrespectful to the other team and refs.

and Ed Valentine is a DB in the highest order.
 




bizzle22 said:
Meh. I don't particularly like it, but it's not all that uncommon and I don't see a reason to give a tech. Would have no problem with it if the NCAA makes it a rule that it's an automatic technical, but until that happens it's just gamesmanship.
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You do that at the high school level...automatic T.
Do that at the D3 level, automatic T.

Do that and you're izzo. Nothing.


You don't see a reason to give a technical foul. I do, because they intentionally sent the wrong guy to the line. If I hadn't seen it called half a dozen times in my life I wouldn't expect it.
 

That seems like begging if you're hoping for that to get called. Happens all the time. Izzo wasn't the first and he won't be the last.

If you want to know when a T should be called, go to the end of the Oregon-UCLA game last night. Oregon makes a 3 with .9 seconds left on the clock, fans storm the court. Game delayed for 10-15 minutes. No T called on Oregon fans. There needs to be a penalty on the home team for jack-asses that can't wait until the end of the game to rush the court.
 

No Call...

I didn't expect a T, but not surprised in what Izzo will do. Unfortunately, he has the BIG refs in his back pocket (esp a guy like Valentine) and the conference lets him by with it. Whenever you play MSU, it is a given that you have to beat MSU + the refs, that's just the rules in our conference... Having said that, we still could have beaten them with any number of "1 less mistakes"... Starting with - Lynch has to play more than 11 minutes for us to win in the BIG...
 



row19gopher said:
I didn't expect a T, but not surprised in what Izzo will do. Unfortunately, he has the BIG refs in his back pocket (esp a guy like Valentine) and the conference lets him by with it. Whenever you play MSU, it is a given that you have to beat MSU + the refs, that's just the rules in our conference...
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Not sure this would be the game to make that argument. By Izzo's standards he was pretty calm most of the game, except for being really pi**ed at his own players.

31 fouls called on Michigan State.
20 fouls called on the Gophers.

22 free throws attempted by Michigan State.
45 free throws attempted by the Gophers.

The officials had nothing to do with determining who won that game. Both teams left a lot of points at the free-throw line, especially Ward (4 for 13) and Murphy (6 for 13).
 

SelectionSunday said:
Not sure this would be the game to make that argument. By Izzo's standards he was pretty calm most of the game, except for being really pi**ed at his own players.

31 fouls called on Michigan State.
20 fouls called on the Gophers.

22 free throws attempted by Michigan State.
45 free throws attempted by the Gophers.

The officials had nothing to do with determining who won that game. Both teams left a lot of points at the free-throw line, especially Ward (4 for 13) and Murphy (6 for 13).
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Ss I will be waiting for you to pick a game that will indeed make that argument. There will be more than a few to choose from in the next 90 days.

You have to admit izzo gets the calls don't you?
 

SelectionSunday said:
That seems like begging if you're hoping for that to get called. Happens all the time. Izzo wasn't the first and he won't be the last.

If you want to know when a T should be called, go to the end of the Oregon-UCLA game last night. Oregon makes a 3 with .9 seconds left on the clock, fans storm the court. Game delayed for 10-15 minutes. No T called on Oregon fans. There needs to be a penalty on the home team for jack-asses that can't wait until the end of the game to rush the court.
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Bill Walton went ballistic over that non call for a T ... But isn't the rule that if fans are on the court when the team is in bounding the ball it will be called? UCLA wasn't trying to put the ball in play as they also thought the game was over? Great game last night. UCLA is one Final Four pick so far for me.
 

freshtrout said:
Bill Walton went ballistic over that non call for a T ... But isn't the rule that if fans are on the court when the team is in bounding the ball it will be called? UCLA wasn't trying to put the ball in play as they also thought the game was over? Great game last night. UCLA is one Final Four pick so far for me.
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I think you're correct on the rule, so I understand why they didn't call it. My thought is get rid of that rule, if the fans go on the court before the game is over, bust 'em for it, and especially when the technical free throws can make a difference in the result, as was the case last night.

I like UCLA, too. Lonzo Ball is special. And he has guys around him who can make shots.
 



BarnBurner said:
Ss I will be waiting for you to pick a game that will indeed make that argument. There will be more than a few to choose from in the next 90 days.

You have to admit izzo gets the calls don't you?
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Absolutely, Izzo gets calls. As does K, and a select few others.

That was not the case Tuesday night, not my from my vantage point in Williams Arena.
 

naw

Gopherbbdude said:
disagree. that's not gamesmanship, it's cheating and disrespectful to the other team and refs.

and Ed Valentine is a DB in the highest order.
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You are beggin' Gophers had a million ways to win the game!! Somebody has to make a play for the Gophers!
 

60's Guy said:
You are beggin' Gophers had a million ways to win the game!! Somebody has to make a play for the Gophers!
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I didn't say anything about the Gophers Play. all I said is it should have been a technical.

free throws
timely shots
foul trouble
All contributed to the loss.
 

SelectionSunday said:
That seems like begging if you're hoping for that to get called. Happens all the time. Izzo wasn't the first and he won't be the last.

If you want to know when a T should be called, go to the end of the Oregon-UCLA game last night. Oregon makes a 3 with .9 seconds left on the clock, fans storm the court. Game delayed for 10-15 minutes. No T called on Oregon fans. There needs to be a penalty on the home team for jack-asses that can't wait until the end of the game to rush the court.
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Doesn't happen all the time. Some people have integrity.

Doesn't always get called a technical. Certainly could have been called and that was about as blatant as it has ever been. In a high school game that would be called when it is that bad more than 50% of the time. Haven't seen it as much at the college level because when it is that obvious usually cosches have class. Sending the only guy near the foul who happens to be terrible from the line away from the line? That's a low class move. Something I'd expect out of Wisconsin. Something I'd expect out of Iowa.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I think you're correct on the rule, so I understand why they didn't call it. My thought is get rid of that rule, if the fans go on the court before the game is over, bust 'em for it, and especially when the technical free throws can make a difference in the result, as was the case last night.

I like UCLA, too. Lonzo Ball is special. And he has guys around him who can make shots.
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Yes, UCLA's game against Kentucky proved all of your points about UCLA and players who make shots.
 

This has never been a T and will never be a T in the history of the game. It is the responsibility of the officials to get the right shooter! The gophers got plenty of calls the other night that I thought were pretty 50/50. Never thought I would see that day against izzo.
 

Some guy said:
Doesn't happen all the time. Some people have integrity.

Doesn't always get called a technical. Certainly could have been called and that was about as blatant as it has ever been. In a high school game that would be called when it is that bad more than 50% of the time. Haven't seen it as much at the college level because when it is that obvious usually cosches have class. Sending the only guy near the foul who happens to be terrible from the line away from the line? That's a low class move. Something I'd expect out of Wisconsin. Something I'd expect out of Iowa.
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Still don't think it's that bad. If you go down the path of punishing players for deceiving officials then what about when a guy knows that the ball went out of bounds off of him and he still points in his direction like he thinks that is what the call should be? And it's just so hard to judge whether a guy is trying to deceive them or not. What if a player really thought he was the one who was fouled? In the Mich St game it was the player being guarded by Mason who went to the line. Wouldn't be unreasonable for him to think he was supposed to be the shooter. Nairn could say that he was just walking Ward away to say a few words to calm his nerves before he stepped to the line. Not completely unreasonable either. Happens all the time. Also, the officials didn't even appear to be 100% sure who the shooter was supposed to be. They had to review it to check. How can a player be held accountable for something the officials aren't even sure about?

And I'd add that it is already a correctable error by the rulebook. The play can be reviewed to check who the shooter should be even after the shots are taken.

(Along the same lines, one could also question the integrity of fouling a terrible free throw shooter away from the ball on purpose. Just gotta make it look good so it can't be called an intentional foul. It would make so much sense strategically that I'm not sure Mason didn't foul Ward on purpose. Pretty fortunate coincidence that we fouled a guy who was 4/12 on FTs at the time, no? If it was on purpose I see it as gamesmanship, and call it a smart play. Very strong odds that he misses at least one and we take over possession needing to just put the ball in the basket to win the game.)

Respect your opinion and agree to disagree.
 

bizzle22 said:
Still don't think it's that bad. If you go down the path of punishing players for deceiving officials then what about when a guy knows that the ball went out of bounds off of him and he still points in his direction like he thinks that is what the call should be? And it's just so hard to judge whether a guy is trying to deceive them or not. What if a player really thought he was the one who was fouled? In the Mich St game it was the player being guarded by Mason who went to the line. Wouldn't be unreasonable for him to think he was supposed to be the shooter. Nairn could say that he was just walking Ward away to say a few words to calm his nerves before he stepped to the line. Not completely unreasonable either. Happens all the time. Also, the officials didn't even appear to be 100% sure who the shooter was supposed to be. They had to review it to check. How can a player be held accountable for something the officials aren't even sure about?

And I'd add that it is already a correctable error by the rulebook. The play can be reviewed to check who the shooter should be even after the shots are taken.

(Along the same lines, one could also question the integrity of fouling a terrible free throw shooter away from the ball on purpose. Just gotta make it look good so it can't be called an intentional foul. It would make so much sense strategically that I'm not sure Mason didn't foul Ward on purpose. Pretty fortunate coincidence that we fouled a guy who was 4/12 on FTs at the time, no? If it was on purpose I see it as gamesmanship, and call it a smart play. Very strong odds that he misses at least one and we take over possession needing to just put the ball in the basket to win the game.)

Respect your opinion and agree to disagree.
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http://ref60.com/whos-your-shooter/


You see it as gamesmanship. Difference between that and gamesmanship is most officials would say you have the option of a Tech for this...which is not the case for most instances of gamesmanship.
 

gopherhoopsguy said:
This has never been a T and will never be a T in the history of the game. It is the responsibility of the officials to get the right shooter! The gophers got plenty of calls the other night that I thought were pretty 50/50. Never thought I would see that day against izzo.
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That's just flat out untrue.

It is not always a technical. But to say it is never a T is ignoring fact
 

Just for fun

Some guy said:
That's just flat out untrue.

It is not always a technical. But to say it is never a T is ignoring fact
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Just for fun, take a look at it from this perspective. A coach and a team knowingly send their best free throw shooter to the line deceiving the officials. The shooter at the line, with a conscience about right and wrong, sin and the bible has a mind so distracted that they never make the free throws.

In Izzo's defense, coaches are not always sure what the referee's called. It's your natural competitive nature to argue the best outcome for your team. It was a called set...Izzo's probably looking at the next action to see if they get the wide open look it's set up for.

And Pitino, I'd sure like to believe instructed his team to intentionally foul the poor shooter and get the ball back.

It's basketball. It's all part of the game. It's why the referee's are there...to sort things out. Coaches coach, refs ref, players play. You don't need officials becoming the focal point calling obscure technicals to decide games.
 

60's Guy said:
It's basketball. It's all part of the game. It's why the referee's are there...to sort things out. Coaches coach, refs ref, players play. You don't need officials becoming the focal point calling obscure technicals to decide games.
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Sure, but as fan, it's my job to criticize the refs' reffing and impugn the integrity of the opposing players and coach.
 

I have a hard time getting too upset about this, but what really should have been a tech is when the MSU player took an intentional swipe at Curry's face immediately after the nearest ref turned the other direction to make a different call, i believe early in the second half. That kind of stuff is totally unacceptable, and I get that the refs just didn't see it, but there needs to be some kind of review available when a player does that kind of stuff. I don't know if the broadcast showed it, but the whole arena was yelling about it when it happened.
 

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