Cheating Per Gary Williams

[feich101]

Long read. Coach williams can't recruit good players because he won't cheat.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR2009021202299.html

[Cmich Gopher]

He sure is a stubborn antagonistic old guy but I cant help but smile when I read some of those comments. I agree with him in that I like the old style of recruiting better too, its just a lot of politics nowadays.

Im definently rooting for him, better Maryland than duke or nc(talking ACC standings)

[Friend Of Tubby]

Long read. Coach williams can't recruit good players because he won't cheat.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR2009021202299.html

UK signed good players in 1990's and 2000's without cheating.

UK signed good players in 1970's and 1980's but got caught cheating 3 times.

[TWeber]

He sure is a stubborn antagonistic old guy but I cant help but smile when I read some of those comments. I agree with him in that I like the old style of recruiting better too, its just a lot of politics nowadays.

Im definently rooting for him, better Maryland than duke or nc(talking ACC standings)

Even when you look at him compared to Pitino, Donovan, Calipari, etc. you see this grumpy old guy with wrinkled clothes and he does not seem to fit in. Yet he won a national title and plays in the toughest conference in the nation at the school he played for. He comes across to me as a real basketball coach, and not a program administrator like many of the others today.

[Friend Of Tubby]

Even when you look at him compared to Pitino, Donovan, Calipari, etc. you see this grumpy old guy with wrinkled clothes and he does not seem to fit in. Yet he won a national title and plays in the toughest conference in the nation at the school he played for. He comes across to me as a real basketball coach, and not a program administrator like many of the others today.

Williams is a good coach. Maybe past his prime a bit.

[The Truth]

Gary Williams is literally sitting on a recruiting gold mine. Since 2002 these are some of the players to come from Maryland's "turf" stretching roughly from Maryland into Northern Virginia:

Carmello Anthony
Rudy Gay
Ty Lawson
Kevin Durant
Micheal Beasley
Nolan Smith
Jack McClintock
Sam Young
Austin Freeman
Chris Wright
Jeff Green
Roy Hibbert

Those are the ones just off the top of my head. There are more and they keep coming as it is (especially Prince George County) quite possibly the hottest source of elite level high school basketball talent. How many of these kids did Gary Williams land? Zero. You can brush it off as "cheating" or you can assign a much simpler solution: These kids, generally speaking, just don't want to play for Williams and he doesn't put the work in. Some Maryland high school coaches would agree with that assessment from what I understand.

[What Up Guy]

I will always root against Huggins, Calipari and all the other slime balls out there. Good for Gary Williams, it sounds like he could make a little more of an effort to at least be friendly with these coaches, but on the other hand the way these coaches use these players for personal gain is sickening.

[Friend Of Tubby]

I will always root against Huggins, Calipari and all the other slime balls out there. Good for Gary Williams, it sounds like he could make a little more of an effort to at least be friendly with these coaches, but on the other hand the way these coaches use these players for personal gain is sickening.

Huggs has had off-the-court issues but he does NOT cheat at recruiting.

[Friend Of Tubby]

Gary Williams is literally sitting on a recruiting gold mine. Since 2002 these are some of the players to come from Maryland's "turf" stretching roughly from Maryland into Northern Virginia:

Carmello Anthony
Rudy Gay
Ty Lawson
Kevin Durant
Micheal Beasley
Nolan Smith
Jack McClintock
Sam Young
Austin Freeman
Chris Wright
Jeff Green
Roy Hibbert

Those are the ones just off the top of my head. There are more and they keep coming as it is (especially Prince George County) quite possibly the hottest source of elite level high school basketball talent. How many of these kids did Gary Williams land? Zero. You can brush it off as "cheating" or you can assign a much simpler solution: These kids, generally speaking, just don't want to play for Williams and he doesn't put the work in. Some Maryland high school coaches would agree with that assessment from what I understand.

Williams has 1 NC and 2 FF this decade without them.

[MillionMoves]

The text emphasizes how Gary Williams doesn't get top DC players because he doesn't "cheat" (whatever that means in recruiting), but the video emphasizes his lack of effort to even contact potential recruits.

I guess you can't cheat if you don't want to recruit in the first place!

[howeda7]

I hope old Gary can keep his job for at least a couple more years. I've always felt that Maryland is the one job Tubby would bolt MN for, and I still think that. It has everything Virginia tempted him with, plus talent that is much closer and easier to get into school. And it really is 'home' for him instead of just 'near home'.

[jmag21]

Huggs has had off-the-court issues but he does NOT cheat at recruiting.

If you're interested, FOT, I could give you a GREAT price on a one of a kind property investment. It's a bridge, in Brooklyn, and it could be yours tomorrow for the low, low price of 39.95, plus tax.

[Friend Of Tubby]

If you're interested, FOT, I could give you a GREAT price on a one of a kind property investment. It's a bridge, in Brooklyn, and it could be yours tomorrow for the low, low price of 39.95, plus tax.

Bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#. 100% unadulterated BS. Huggins doesn't cheat. He does have an off-the-court history of problems but he doesn't cheat. Period.

[GoAUpher]

Huggs has had off-the-court issues but he does NOT cheat at recruiting.

I have no idea what he does with recruiting. I do know that his commitment to academics (yes, you do sense sarcasm) is second to none. My wife was a UC professor while Huggins was there. He came to her office one day to pressure her to pass a bball player who hadn't shown up for most of the classes that semester and who hadn't completed a majority of the assigned work. She said no dice, but that she'd be willing to work with the player on how he could get caught up, even offering to work with the player one on one. Huggins didn't take this well, stormed out, and went to her dept head to try to get her overruled (the DH backed my wife on why she was failing the player). This is the rep Huggy Bear has around UC if you talk to anyone who ever taught his players.

[The-Real-Truth]

I have no idea what he does with recruiting. I do know that his commitment to academics (yes, you do sense sarcasm) is second to none. My wife was a UC professor while Huggins was there. He came to her office one day to pressure her to pass a bball player who hadn't shown up for most of the classes that semester and who hadn't completed a majority of the assigned work. She said no dice, but that she'd be willing to work with the player on how he could get caught up, even offering to work with the player one on one. Huggins didn't take this well, stormed out, and went to her dept head to try to get her overruled (the DH backed my wife on why she was failing the player). This is the rep Huggy Bear has around UC if you talk to anyone who ever taught his players.

Head coaches never go to the professors directly bud. Try another one.

[TWeber]

Bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#. 100% unadulterated BS. Huggins doesn't cheat. He does have an off-the-court history of problems but he doesn't cheat. Period.

I don't know if he cheats or doesn't, and really, no one except Huggins really does. What I do know is that I don't like what he does with the players academically once he gets them to school, and what he does to lure the kids to school (hiring coaches that bring players with them).

Neither of those things are cheating in the recruiting sense I suppose, but they are still unsavory. I know that other coaches do things like bringing assistants on board to get a player, but I don't think many others have made such a sham of academics like Huggins did while at Cincinnati.

[howeda7]

Bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#. 100% unadulterated BS. Huggins doesn't cheat. He does have an off-the-court history of problems but he doesn't cheat. Period.

FOT, you are very level-headed on most matters, but come on. Much as 'The Truth' does with Calipari, if you view it through tinted enough glasses, you can say he doesn't cheat. But anyone with any sense and no biases knows that Huggins and Calipari are two of the biggest sleazeballs out there.

Has he ever paid players or helped them cheat on ACT's? Who knows, maybe not. Is he a sleazeball who will do absolutely everything in every gray area and a lot of black area to win? Hell yes.

[GoAUpher]

Head coaches never go to the professors directly bud. Try another one.

Ah yes, except that Huggins did. You're tossing out a generalization that, frankly, isn't possible. Are you really trying to assert that no coach, ever, has gone to a professor? If so I've got lots of investment pyramids to sell you. Since I'm getting this firsthand from my wife I know its not BS. You can believe me or not, it's your prerogative. No skin off my back either way sport...I was just contributing the experience my wife had while at UC.

[Schlic Daddy]

Head coaches never go to the professors directly bud. Try another one.

One second, pal :D (Dane Cook, anyone?)

[GoAUpher]

One second, pal :D (Dane Cook, anyone?)

No problem, chief! :)

[Friend Of Tubby]

FOT, you are very level-headed on most matters, but come on. Much as 'The Truth' does with Calipari, if you view it through tinted enough glasses, you can say he doesn't cheat. But anyone with any sense and no biases knows that Huggins and Calipari are two of the biggest sleazeballs out there.

Has he ever paid players or helped them cheat on ACT's? Who knows, maybe not. Is he a sleazeball who will do absolutely everything in every gray area and a lot of black area to win? Hell yes.

He doesn't cheat on recruiting. No doubt whatsoever. He declined the opportunity to pay $35K to Alexander Johnson of Albany GA to attend UC in 2003 and 2004. AJ chose an SEC school in 2003 and ACC school in 2004.

As I clearly stated, Huggs has well documented "other" issues.

[Friend Of Tubby]

I have no idea what he does with recruiting. I do know that his commitment to academics (yes, you do sense sarcasm) is second to none. My wife was a UC professor while Huggins was there. He came to her office one day to pressure her to pass a bball player who hadn't shown up for most of the classes that semester and who hadn't completed a majority of the assigned work. She said no dice, but that she'd be willing to work with the player on how he could get caught up, even offering to work with the player one on one. Huggins didn't take this well, stormed out, and went to her dept head to try to get her overruled (the DH backed my wife on why she was failing the player). This is the rep Huggy Bear has around UC if you talk to anyone who ever taught his players.

Huggs graduated 91% of his players prior to UC (about 40% there) and close to 100% of his seniors in 3 years at K-St and WVU since UC.

[Friend Of Tubby]

I don't know if he cheats or doesn't, and really, no one except Huggins really does. What I do know is that I don't like what he does with the players academically once he gets them to school, and what he does to lure the kids to school (hiring coaches that bring players with them).

Neither of those things are cheating in the recruiting sense I suppose, but they are still unsavory. I know that other coaches do things like bringing assistants on board to get a player, but I don't think many others have made such a sham of academics like Huggins did while at Cincinnati.

Huggs pushes his players to graduate once he gets them to school. He pushes them 10 years after they leave school (if they hadn't graduated).

Ever been in his office? I have - he has a picture of every player he ever coached that graduated. A whole wall full of pictures. I'd guess 60 or 70 photos.

[The Truth]

Back to the topic of this thread i.e. Gary Williams


I think Williams is a solid coach but when you see a mass exodus from his wheelhouse in terms of talent and whine about cheating it looks bad. You can throw a rock from College Park and hit Prince George County and to lose a player like Kevin Durant to Texas tells me something is wrong.

Yeah he went to the Final Four and won a championship in the early part of the 2000's with Juan Dixon (who was lightly regarded) and Steve Blake (who was more heavily recruited coming out of Oak Hill) in the backcourt but since 2002 Maryland has fallen back to where they were before Dixon: average. Gary Williams loves to have excuses: Why he ignored Deron Williams because it was "easier" to recruit John Gilchrist, why he didn't pay that much attnetion to native Josh Boone or how everybody is cheating BUT Gary Williams and that's why he loses out on all these players.

The truth is much simpler: Williams just isn't that great of a recruiter and his inability to put together a consistent staff since 2002 to do it for him; who can work together and recruit the top talent in his own backyard has contributed to the downfall of the Maryland program from its high of the national championship. Maryland should be fielding Final Four/National Championship contending teams every couple of seasons just by recruiting Maryland and Northern Virginia! That they aren't is on Williams shoulders and his complaints come off as sour grapes of a man who doesn't want to work at recruiting.

[Friend Of Tubby]

Back to the topic of this thread i.e. Gary Williams


I think Williams is a solid coach but when you see a mass exodus from his wheelhouse in terms of talent and whine about cheating it looks bad. You can throw a rock from College Park and hit Prince George County and to lose a player like Kevin Durant to Texas tells me something is wrong.

Yeah he went to the Final Four and won a championship in the early part of the 2000's with Juan Dixon (who was lightly regarded) and Steve Blake (who was more heavily recruited coming out of Oak Hill) in the backcourt but since 2002 Maryland has fallen back to where they were before Dixon: average. Gary Williams loves to have excuses: Why he ignored Deron Williams because it was "easier" to recruit John Gilchrist, why he didn't pay that much attnetion to native Josh Boone or how everybody is cheating BUT Gary Williams and that's why he loses out on all these players.

The truth is much simpler: Williams just isn't that great of a recruiter and his inability to put together a consistent staff since 2002 to do it for him; who can work together and recruit the top talent in his own backyard has contributed to the downfall of the Maryland program from its high of the national championship. Maryland should be fielding Final Four/National Championship contending teams every couple of seasons just by recruiting Maryland and Northern Virginia! That they aren't is on Williams shoulders and his complaints come off as sour grapes of a man who doesn't want to work at recruiting.

Maryland never made FF or won NC even when Lefty Driesell recruited BOTB to play there in 1970's and 80's.

Williams achieved 2 FF and 1 NC in 2000's despite perceptions of some that he doesn't recruit the "right" players.

[The Truth]

And since 2002 he's missed the NCAA tournament 4 times. 4 out of 7 seasons since his national championship he's been relegated to the NIT. That's a direct result of both massive recruiting failure in terms of approaching, effort, offers and scouting and poor player development.

None of this would be an issue if Maryland had to recruit nationally because the in-state talent pool was poor. You could argue that Maryland was a hard school to recruit to if it weren't in the ACC and the beneficiary of tens of millions of dollars in basketball support and what Gary Williams did was amazing...but none of that is true. Maryland is knee deep in basketball talent and most of it exists within a thirty minute drive of College Park. Even his recuriting successes over that time frame have been hit or miss. John Gilchrist was talented but openly fueded with Williams over team direction and never developed into an NBA prospect. Travis Garrison was a high school All American who was nothing more than a role player.

[Friend Of Tubby]

And since 2002 he's missed the NCAA tournament 4 times. 4 out of 7 seasons since his national championship he's been relegated to the NIT. That's a direct result of both massive recruiting failure in terms of approaching, effort, offers and scouting and poor player development.

None of this would be an issue if Maryland had to recruit nationally because the in-state talent pool was poor. You could argue that Maryland was a hard school to recruit to if it weren't in the ACC and the beneficiary of tens of millions of dollars in basketball support and what Gary Williams did was amazing...but none of that is true. Maryland is knee deep in basketball talent and most of it exists within a thirty minute drive of College Park. Even his recuriting successes over that time frame have been hit or miss. John Gilchrist was talented but openly fueded with Williams over team direction and never developed into an NBA prospect. Travis Garrison was a high school All American who was nothing more than a role player.

And Billy Donovan is headed for 3 straight Missed NCAA's this year after back-2-back NCAA titles.

Gary Williams is the most accomplished basketball coach ever at University of Maryland. By far.

[Friend Of Tubby]

http://www.dbwoerner.com/basketball/coaches/coach109.html Ahead of some pretty good coaches.

[Friend Of Tubby]

Head Coach
Name Gary Williams
Alma Mater Maryland, 1968
Date Of Birth 03/04/1945

Career Breakdown School Years Record W/L Pct
American 4 72-42 .632
Boston College 4 76-45 .628
Maryland 20 418-229 .646
Ohio St. 3 59-41 .590
Career 31 625-357 .636

Year School W- L W/L Pct
1978-79 American 14-13 .519
1979-80 American 13-14 .481
1980-81 American 24-6 .800
1981-82 American 21-9 .700
1982-83 Boston College 25-7 .781
1983-84 Boston College 18-12 .600
1984-85 Boston College 20-11 .645
1985-86 Boston College 13-15 .464
1986-87 Ohio St. 20-13 .606
1987-88 Ohio St. 20-13 .606
1988-89 Ohio St. 19-15 .559
1989-90 Maryland 19-14 .576
1990-91 Maryland 16-12 .571
1991-92 Maryland 14-15 .483
1992-93 Maryland 12-16 .429
1993-94 Maryland 18-12 .600
1994-95 Maryland 26-8 .765
1995-96 Maryland 17-13 .567
1996-97 Maryland 21-11 .656
1997-98 Maryland 21-11 .656
1998-99 Maryland 28-6 .824
1999-00 Maryland 25-10 .714
2000-01 Maryland 25-11 .694
2001-02 Maryland 32-4 .889 NCAA champ
2002-03 Maryland 21-10 .677
2003-04 Maryland 20-12 .625
2004-05 Maryland 19-13 .594
2005-06 Maryland 19-13 .594
2006-07 Maryland 25-9 .735
2007-08 Maryland 19-15 .559
2008-09 Maryland 21-14 .600

[jovs]

It seems Williams is justifying losing some of the local recruits and it seems he is justified. Beasley's AAU coach was hired at Kansas State, Maryland would not hire him. Conneticut ran a fundraiser for Gay's AAU organization. These are things that stretch the rules but can impact the recruting process. To bad more coaches are not like that.

[The Truth]

It seems Williams is justifying losing some of the local recruits and it seems he is justified. Beasley's AAU coach was hired at Kansas State, Maryland would not hire him. Conneticut ran a fundraiser for Gay's AAU organization. These are things that stretch the rules but can impact the recruting process. To bad more coaches are not like that.

Williams has made accusations against Georgetown and Syracuse as well. There are just too many cases and too many coaches/schools involved to justify this "everybody's cheating but me" schtick he uses. The rest of the country is raiding Maryland's turf for elite prospects while Maryland for the past 7 seasons has floated between average and bad.

Tubby is good at building relationships with a players family and the player themselves and that's not even something Williams wants to do! His whole process is "come to Maryland. Here's the offer..now commit". It isn't working and instead of acknowleding his own flaws he takes the easy way out and makes accusations of cheating.

[WanderingGopher]

I know a thing or two about Maryland basketball and basketball in the DC area. A lot of what Williams says rings true.

And those of you who seem to suggest that Maryland "should" be doing better, should be a perennial contender or whatever, probably aren't aware of the environment here.

Yes, there is more bb talent in the DC area than, say, MSP. But unlike MSP, there's another equal or greater D-1 powerhouse in town (Georgetown), two other pretty good D-1 programs right in the area (GW and UVa), and at least a half dozen other powerhouse ACC schools and Big East within a manageable drive that are frequent recruiting presences in DC. This is hardly like recruiting against the likes of Wisconsin and Iowa.

Moreover, like the U, Maryland has an administration that will not "bend the rules" for athletes like so many competing schools (the SEC schools in football, the Kentucky's, Kansas's, even Duke's of the world in bb). There are a lot of guys Williams can't recruit and his competitors can. This is especially true since the Len Bias tragedy.

I for one applaud Williams, and certainly root for him versus the Huggins' and Calipari's and Kelvin Sampson's of the college bb world.

[The Truth]

I know a thing or two about Maryland basketball and basketball in the DC area. A lot of what Williams says rings true.

And those of you who seem to suggest that Maryland "should" be doing better, should be a perennial contender or whatever, probably aren't aware of the environment here.

Yes, there is more bb talent in the DC area than, say, MSP. But unlike MSP, there's another equal or greater D-1 powerhouse in town (Georgetown), two other pretty good D-1 programs right in the area (GW and UVa), and at least a half dozen other powerhouse ACC schools and Big East within a manageable drive that are frequent recruiting presences in DC. This is hardly like recruiting against the likes of Wisconsin and Iowa.

Moreover, like the U, Maryland has an administration that will not "bend the rules" for athletes like so many competing schools (the SEC schools in football, the Kentucky's, Kansas's, even Duke's of the world in bb). There are a lot of guys Williams can't recruit and his competitors can. This is especially true since the Len Bias tragedy.

I for one applaud Williams, and certainly root for him versus the Huggins' and Calipari's and Kelvin Sampson's of the college bb world.

I have no doubt some kids are enticed or are tempted by improper benefits but to claim ALL of them are and that's the reason he's losing out is disingenous and ignores some of the faults that former recruits have laid out that all seem to say the same thing: "I would have loved to play for Maryland and Coach Williams if he had actually spoken to me and my family."


Don't confuse integrity with stubborness.

[anonymous]

FOT,

I agree with you that Huggins gets a bad rap. That said, the program was cited for NCAA rules violations under his watch in the mid-to-late '90s.

[Friend Of Tubby]

FOT,

I agree with you that Huggins gets a bad rap. That said, the program was cited for NCAA rules violations under his watch in the mid-to-late '90s.

Indeed - it was assistant John Loyer who was fingered by the NCAA. Huggins received no penalty. Loyer was "banned" from future NCAA coaching by a Show Cause order.

[DuluthGopher]

Just want to throw my 2 cents into this topic. My father was recently playing golf with a well known ex-player/coach the other week and he asked him what he thought about Tubby. He said Tubby is a great guy and a great coach. He also said that Tubby was fired from Kentucky because he didn't cheat enough. Enough is the main phrase. Everyone cheats people, just how much a coach is willing to stretch is up to him. I think there are certain places like, Duke, NC, Kansas, who probably don't have to cheat as much to get the better talent. But on a simliar note, the guy who my dad was playing with also said that Patino is the greatest cheater out there. He said he will do anything to get the kids he wants. But it's even well known that Wooden cheated when he was dominating for all those years at UCLA. People cheat all the time, it's just about not getting caught and not cheating if you don't have to.

[anonymous]

FOT,

Huggs did not receive a direct penalty, but it is his program. The program was cited for lack of institutional control, was placed on probation and had scholarships taken away.

At the end of the day, it falls on the head coach when his program is cited. At least in my book it is. College coaches -- especially in FB and MBB -- are such control freaks that they know everything that's going on.

[Friend Of Tubby]

FOT,

Huggs did not receive a direct penalty, but it is his program. The program was cited for lack of institutional control, was placed on probation and had scholarships taken away.

At the end of the day, it falls on the head coach when his program is cited. At least in my book it is. College coaches -- especially in FB and MBB -- are such control freaks that they know everything that's going on.

Understand that. Gene Keady got blamed when Frank Kendrick cheated at Purdue in mid 1990's. Coach Keady doesn't cheat, either.

[Friend Of Tubby]

Just want to throw my 2 cents into this topic. My father was recently playing golf with a well known ex-player/coach the other week and he asked him what he thought about Tubby. He said Tubby is a great guy and a great coach. He also said that Tubby was fired from Kentucky because he didn't cheat enough. Enough is the main phrase. Everyone cheats people, just how much a coach is willing to stretch is up to him. I think there are certain places like, Duke, NC, Kansas, who probably don't have to cheat as much to get the better talent. But on a simliar note, the guy who my dad was playing with also said that Patino is the greatest cheater out there. He said he will do anything to get the kids he wants. But it's even well known that Wooden cheated when he was dominating for all those years at UCLA. People cheat all the time, it's just about not getting caught and not cheating if you don't have to.

Tubby was not fired by, at, or from Kentucky.

He left for a better opportunity at Minnesota.

[Gopher4Life]

FOT,

>>He doesn't cheat on recruiting. No doubt whatsoever.<<

Are you saying that Huggins didn't know about the bogus transcripts of a Kansas juco player or two when he signed them?

[The-Real-Truth]

Understand that. Gene Keady got blamed when Frank Kendrick cheated at Purdue in mid 1990's. Coach Keady doesn't cheat, either.

I agree. That's why he and coach knight are on TV rather than sidelines. They have the systems that could hardly be sold to the spoiled kids today. I think coach Williams will join them very soon also.