Not to get ahead of ourselves but...

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MKE_Gopher

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What is the timeline that we are looking at for the expansion up to 80,000 seats? What will it take?

10 years?
Big Ten title?
Both?
 

Never or Vikings leaving town.
 

I think it will take a healthy waiting list over a period of several (many?) years to consider expansion. And, when/if that expansion takes place it will be in steps, not an immediate jump to 80,000.

A couple things to keep in mind... On one hand, The Gophers haven't drawn that well in the dome as we all know but the last 10 years outdoors at Memorial Stadium were also low. Someone can look it up but I think it was in the 40K's.

On the other hand, the ill-fated move to the Metrodome was done to jump start the program. Instead, it moth-balled it at that low level of interest that had settled in at Memorial Stadium. TCF was built to be expanded if needed so I really do think a rebirth of the program is the ultimate goal (just as it was when the team moved to the Metrodome).

I think it will really be hard to build long-term interest in the Gopher program that is needed for that expansion to 80K. It will be hard, but not impossible. It all starts with the students and alumni. If the team can build success and the students have a good time, they will be more apt to purchase tickets once they become alumni. The "hard" part is building that interest in an environment where the Gophers have to compete with pro sports for season tickets and fan interests.

With a fan base this size, and the multitude of teams to cheer for... it sort of lends to a migrating fan base that zeros in on the flavor of the month (who is winning?). That is the hard part. It is going to take a big combination of winning, success over a longer period of time, traditions, and a much bigger core of people interested to the degree you see on this Gopher Hole message board.

That is my opinion anyway...
 

Minnesota also has to compete for spectators with three of the best lower college conferences in the country in the MIAC, WIAC, and Northern Sun. I really can't see it expanding more than 65,000 unless the Vikings leave or they win multiple Big Ten titles.
 

I don't think you can discount the possibility that the NFL may price the average fan out some day down the line. College football may become a much greater value in terms of the average joe being able to buy a ticket to see a game. I honestly believe in the future Vikings games will have 75% corporate ticketholders with the remaining 25% being people with either big bucks or diehards that would mortgage their house to maintain season tickets. Its already moving in that direction and I don't see anything keeping that from continuing.
 


I think the better question is, "Why do so many seem to be in such a rush to expand?" It has been proven over decades that this program will not support an 80,000 seat stadium (unless the unexpected happens and we do some serious winning - I'm talking multiple Big Ten titles and/or national championships).
We won six national titles with a stadium that held 52,809. That's pretty much where we are back to now. Why are we worried about competing with other teams for stadium size? A smaller stadium does not make a poorer stadium (see: Fenway Park). We have the right size stadium for our program, and that should be what's important.
 

I hope we never go to 80K. This market will not be able to support that large a stadium for college football. The only people that would buy upper deck end zone seats are Iowa and Wisconsin fans. The rest of the year the seats would be empty. 65-70K is a better size.
 

Some Stats,

Minnesota Census Numbers
1980 - 4,075,970
1990 - 4,375,099
2000 - 4,919,479 CAGR = 0.94%

Twin Citites Census Numbers
1990 - 2,538,776
2000 - 2,968,806
2008 - 3,229,878 CAGR = 1.35%

Natural growth won't alone get us there. I agree that it will take either a) Vikings leave town and Gophers are competitive or b) Gophers become an elite team that regularly competes for Big Ten titles.

I think the long term goal should be to always finish in the top five and to win a Big Ten title once every five years. This is roughly the level of success Wisconsin, Iowa, and PSU have. Gophers need to displace one of them.
 

I am of the opinion that we should wait at least 5+ years before even thinking about expansion.

My criteria for expansion at that time would be: if the Gophers are consistenly selling out our least attended conference game and at least 47,000 seats to our least attended overall game, then we can talk about expansion.

As reference, those numbers (least attended BT game and least attended ooc game) are as follows:

2008: Indiana (40,511), Florida Atlantic (41,003)
2007: Illinois (46,604), Miami of Ohio (45,383)
2006: Indiana (44,610), Kent State (45,612)
2005: Michigan St. (45,187), Colo. State (40,221)
2004: Northwestern (44,657) we were ranked #18 for goodness sake, Ill. St. (34,006)
2003: Michigan St. (38,778), Troy St (31,093)
2002: Illinois (32,663), SW Texas St (32,209)

When we have 5+ years of a packed house, ask the question again and then I will get into how much we can expand. For now, lets be "tremendously excited" over what we have.
 



GMan said:
I hope we never go to 80K. This market will not be able to support that large a stadium for college football. The only people that would buy upper deck end zone seats are Iowa and Wisconsin fans. The rest of the year the seats would be empty. 65-70K is a better size.
Click to expand...

+1

Expanding mostly would just supply WI and IA fans with tickets.
 

I'm sure Bruiniks and company have the multiple-regression cost/benefit analysis in place that shows when the variables are right, an expansion would proceed.

To me, it would all start with a rebuilding of the Gopher tradition and that would take four or five years of national top 25 play. That would build the waiting list.
 

Koppco made a good point about the NFL pricing their fans out, but the more accurate answer is that it will take as long as it takes.

I don't get why people here are so eager to get to 80K, either.
 

WanderingGopher said:
+1

Expanding mostly would just supply WI and IA fans with tickets.
Click to expand...

well, if that is the attitude many start out with, then yeah i guess it will be hard to get to 80K. admitting defeat before the battle has even begun.......sounds like a great strategy and very minnesotan! ;)
 



Go Gophers Rah said:
I am of the opinion that we should wait at least 5+ years before even thinking about expansion.

My criteria for expansion at that time would be: if the Gophers are consistenly selling out our least attended conference game and at least 47,000 seats to our least attended overall game, then we can talk about expansion.

When we have 5+ years of a packed house, ask the question again and then I will get into how much we can expand. For now, lets be "tremendously excited" over what we have.
Click to expand...

If we aren't sold out for every game (via season tickets) then we shouldn't be considering an expansion. The length of the waitlist for tickets will give us the best indication of the pent up demand for tickets and how many more seats to add if it is appropriate.
 

never

Why didn't the Lakers build a 50k basketball arena? The Yankees 100k? You must always put yourself on the supply side. FYI...there is no expansion plans available without drastically altering the structure. The early talk about footings was just that, talk. There are no footings for an easy, cheap expansion. We will never see it, Vikings or not. Besides the legislature would require a 5 million seat expansion because a seat should not just be available to those who have season tickets, everyone should be allowed to go.
 

gopherjay said:
FYI...there is no expansion plans available without drastically altering the structure. The early talk about footings was just that, talk. There are no footings for an easy, cheap expansion. We will never see it, Vikings or not.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? All we've heard is how easy stadium expansion will be. If you're not joking, please provide some more info.
 

I hope never expands, I like how it looks now. If anything, add the deck across from the press box when the time is right is enough. Personally, I like the open end.

Plus, if you expand it --where is that scoreboard going to go? Size wise it looks like its too big to sit on top and not look out of place.
Also, as a potential concert venue the open end is pretty cool.
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
I am of the opinion that we should wait at least 5+ years before even thinking about expansion.

My criteria for expansion at that time would be: if the Gophers are consistenly selling out our least attended conference game and at least 47,000 seats to our least attended overall game, then we can talk about expansion.

As reference, those numbers (least attended BT game and least attended ooc game) are as follows:

2008: Indiana (40,511), Florida Atlantic (41,003)
2007: Illinois (46,604), Miami of Ohio (45,383)
2006: Indiana (44,610), Kent State (45,612)
2005: Michigan St. (45,187), Colo. State (40,221)
2004: Northwestern (44,657) we were ranked #18 for goodness sake, Ill. St. (34,006)
2003: Michigan St. (38,778), Troy St (31,093)
2002: Illinois (32,663), SW Texas St (32,209)

When we have 5+ years of a packed house, ask the question again and then I will get into how much we can expand. For now, lets be "tremendously excited" over what we have.
Click to expand...
\

I agree with you 100%, talking about expansion before this is definitely putting the cart in front of the horse. We haven't had a sellout for a whole season, heck even half a season in how many years. The culture needs to change drastically to allow this and once and if this occurs then we can talk about expansion. Like you said in the meantime lets enjoy what we have.
 

MNGophers said:
I hope never expands, I like how it looks now. If anything, add the deck across from the press box when the time is right is enough. Personally, I like the open end.

Plus, if you expand it --where is that scoreboard going to go? Size wise it looks like its too big to sit on top and not look out of place.
Also, as a potential concert venue the open end is pretty cool.
Click to expand...

The open end will never be enclosed regardless of future expansion.
 

MNGophers said:
I hope never expands, I like how it looks now. If anything, add the deck across from the press box when the time is right is enough. Personally, I like the open end.

Plus, if you expand it --where is that scoreboard going to go? Size wise it looks like its too big to sit on top and not look out of place.
Also, as a potential concert venue the open end is pretty cool.
Click to expand...

The addition would be adding a 3rd deck across from the press box/suites. Like Zeppelin wrote, the open end will remain open.
 

Has anyone actually seen exactly how it would be expanded to 80K? Most everything I have heard talks about that third deck starting on the NW corner and extending around the existing structure right up to the existing press box. There is one thing that always puzzles me about this third deck assumption... If currently the stadium's capacity is about 50K, that means the first deck is about 25K and the second deck is about 25K. Now, if a third deck is added it can only extend 2/3 the way around the structure due to the press box. So, with much LESS horizontal space 30K seats have to be made up while the entire first and second deck are 25K each? Either that third deck has to be massive (twice as big as existing decks?), or they are going to have to fiddle with the open end to get to 80K overall capacity.

It seems to me that the third deck would get you to about 65K but some missing ingredient would be required for the final 15K (maybe increasing the first deck to uniform size still fitting under the scoreboard on the west side)?
 

I'd like to see expansion to 60K at some point. I don't see 80K as being realistic in the forseeable future. But we should let demand build up. I wonder how many people are going to expect to be able to walk up to the stadium and just buy a ticket on gameday.
 

I would think temporary bleacher seating could be used in the open end for few years prior to any possible expansion. Also, if/when expansion happens I hope it is only to 60k at first, and only after multiple Big Ten Titles.

Let's not get brainwashed by our neighbors to the East over the imprtance of capacity. IMO, they make far too much out of that issue. Huge crowds can help the atmosphere if it is otherwise lacking, but it's not 100% of the equation as their fans seem to suggest.
 

Schnauzer said:
Has anyone actually seen exactly how it would be expanded to 80K? Most everything I have heard talks about that third deck starting on the NW corner and extending around the existing structure right up to the existing press box. There is one thing that always puzzles me about this third deck assumption... If currently the stadium's capacity is about 50K, that means the first deck is about 25K and the second deck is about 25K. Now, if a third deck is added it can only extend 2/3 the way around the structure due to the press box. So, with much LESS horizontal space 30K seats have to be made up while the entire first and second deck are 25K each? Either that third deck has to be massive (twice as big as existing decks?), or they are going to have to fiddle with the open end to get to 80K overall capacity.
Click to expand...

The split is more like 22K downstairs and 28K upstairs (I don't know the exact number, someone who has been following season ticket dispersals can be more accurate). Each row gets more and more seats in it the further away from the field you get, if for no other reason than the radius of the corner circles get bigger ad bigger.

I'm also just fine with the stadium as it is.
 

No Temporary Bleachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would that ever look cheap!!!! If and when there is expansion I say add a third deck with about 15,000 seats and a small overhang like on the pressbox. We do not need 80,000 seats. having more people does not enhance the gameday experience.

Go Gophers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I agree that it all depends on the consistency of a very large waitlist. If the waitlist is over 12,000 for five or six years.... then you can add 10,000 seats. And even then, 2,000 of those should be given to students (not necessarily in that new section, but adjacent to rest of the students).

I love the Vikes, but I dont see this happening anytime soon unless the Purple leaves the cities.
 

Even after the Vikings move, it's hard to imagine the demand for an 80K stadium, unless the program is consistently in the top 20.
 


Our stadium is just right

Let's end this thread, and just enjoy what we have. I can't wait for the first game. I was at the last game outdoors in Memorial stadium (as a student) and will be at the first game outdoors as an alum and father of an incoming freshman (who will be sitting in the student section).

Go Gophers!
 

expansion

personally, I think they should've built the stadium to seat about 58,000 just like Memorial Stadium and left it at that, but that's just my opinion. I wonder if there are plans that would allow them to expand Little by little, instead of jumping all the way to 80,000, which i think is a little far fetched. I'd love to see only about 8,000 more seats added in about 5 yrs.
 

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