PiPress: Pitino on Buggs in starting lineup: “We’ll stick with it”

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BleedGopher

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per Marcus:

“We went bigger in the starting lineup,” Pitino said. “We went with Buggs over Carlos (Morris) because I wanted more size. Buggs played well until he had that meltdown in the last two minutes. He did a lot of really good things defensively, did a lot of good things on (Jarrod) Uthoff for most of it.”

“I think I’ll stick with it a little bit more — I like it,” Pitino said of Buggs over Morris. “I think he’s practicing hard and he’s getting better. Tonight will be good for him, kind of having that mini-meltdown as I call it. That’ll be good for him because he’ll grow from it.”

http://blogs.twincities.com/gophers...game-pitino-buggs-starting-lineup-well-stick/

Go Gophers!!
 


It's a tough situation to be in. Pitino doesn't trust Buggs on defense, or really at all for that matter, but he's shown enough potential and Morris has been so bad that this is a necessary move. Hopefully Buggs continues to get better with more experience and I think he will.
 

jaymil said:
It's a tough situation to be in. Pitino doesn't trust Buggs on defense, or really at all for that matter, but he's shown enough potential and Morris has been so bad that this is a necessary move. Hopefully Buggs continues to get better with more experience and I think he will.
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Both guys have their flaws. By playing Buggs, Pitino sends a message to Morris that playground ball is not acceptable, it builds Buggs confidence and motivation, and ultimately the team finished with a much needed victory, so he probably wants to see how this play out. Was great to see Buggs take a strong drive to the hoop and nail down a 3 on offense. His defense also looked much improved and I liked the energy. Now, to rid him, and for that matter the rest of the team, their inherent ability to try to piss away the game late...well thats another story.
 

jaymil said:
It's a tough situation to be in. Pitino doesn't trust Buggs on defense, or really at all for that matter, but he's shown enough potential and Morris has been so bad that this is a necessary move. Hopefully Buggs continues to get better with more experience and I think he will.
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His man to man d isn't bad but his zone and help defense definetly needs work
 


I've loudly been one of Buggs biggest critics, and I probably still will be based off of the response to last nights game from many of you. That said, he is improving.

I still haven't seen the "things happen when Buggs is on the floor" at least no more than any other guy, a lot of things happen when anyone on this team is on the floor. What I've seen is a guy that is playing within himself and he isn't turning the ball over, so by way of not being a negative I guess that's a positive. I'm with Pitino, I don't trust him, his defensive rotations are absolutely terrible and he has some massive defensive lapse in mental concentration usually at key times. Inbounds plays hes a problem because he can't throw it in, he can't set a pick, and he cant really come off a screen so what do you do with him? Offensively he is feast or famine, most of the time he is simply looking to pass the ball to the next guy, absolutely no threat to attack in a half court offense. If he had a chance to catch and shoot he was pulling the trigger last night which was good. He is improving, and we are better with him being able to get 15 minutes. I still don't think he should get the majority of the minutes.

One thing I do want to point out is that this isn't a 0 sum game. We don't have to get more from Buggs and less from Morris. Minutes, maybe yes, we have 40 minutes to distribute at the 3 spot, but we can get productive minutes from both. Morris needs the time in the offense and the film study just as bad as Buggs does, so I'm not a proponent of this Buggs>Morris stuff. We NEED them both next year.

I think Pitino has done it the right way with both of these guys. Morris has to make better decisions with the ball and be more of a reliable option on the defensive end to get minutes late in the game. Buggs has to be more of the same to get minutes in the beginning of halves. Fact of the matter is coach is going to play Mo, King, Mason, Dre and Math in most late game situations until one of those two break the trend or until Math loses coaches trust like he may have done late last night when Mason got more of the minutes at the PG in crunch time.
 

I think Morris is pretty immature. Don't think the bench role will sit well with him.
 


Winasota Gopher said:
I've loudly been one of Buggs biggest critics, and I probably still will be based off of the response to last nights game from many of you. That said, he is improving.

I still haven't seen the "things happen when Buggs is on the floor" at least no more than any other guy, a lot of things happen when anyone on this team is on the floor. What I've seen is a guy that is playing within himself and he isn't turning the ball over, so by way of not being a negative I guess that's a positive. I'm with Pitino, I don't trust him, his defensive rotations are absolutely terrible and he has some massive defensive lapse in mental concentration usually at key times. Inbounds plays hes a problem because he can't throw it in, he can't set a pick, and he cant really come off a screen so what do you do with him? Offensively he is feast or famine, most of the time he is simply looking to pass the ball to the next guy, absolutely no threat to attack in a half court offense. If he had a chance to catch and shoot he was pulling the trigger last night which was good. He is improving, and we are better with him being able to get 15 minutes. I still don't think he should get the majority of the minutes.

One thing I do want to point out is that this isn't a 0 sum game. We don't have to get more from Buggs and less from Morris. Minutes, maybe yes, we have 40 minutes to distribute at the 3 spot, but we can get productive minutes from both. Morris needs the time in the offense and the film study just as bad as Buggs does, so I'm not a proponent of this Buggs>Morris stuff. We NEED them both next year.

I think Pitino has done it the right way with both of these guys. Morris has to make better decisions with the ball and be more of a reliable option on the defensive end to get minutes late in the game. Buggs has to be more of the same to get minutes in the beginning of halves. Fact of the matter is coach is going to play Mo, King, Mason, Dre and Math in most late game situations until one of those two break the trend or until Math loses coaches trust like he may have done late last night when Mason got more of the minutes at the PG in crunch time.
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Every player on this roster has some flaws. King is a PF who can't rebound. Mo not great on defense. Elliot can't shoot free throws or play on offense. Lil dre with the dives into the lane and epic rejections. Morris - poor shot selection and missed defensive assignments. Mason has not shot great. Mason and Hollins are really our best two way players.

Buggs has flaws and a number of them. But he has size and the potential to make some plays that no one else on the roster seems to make. He makes the size and athleticism of the team on the floor improve when he is out there at the 3. He is hustling and learning and getting better. In each of the last several games he has shown the desire to dive to the floor and recover the ball and has made some big plays. I like the direction he is going.
 



I REALLY want to see Dorsey, Mason, Morris, Buggs, and Konate as the starters next year. If that line up can minimize the turnovers it could really flourish in Pitino's system. A bench of Jarvis, McBreyer, King, Diedhiou, and Nwankwo isn't horrible either. I'm sure I'll be labeled a Pollyanna by some (where is Howie by the way?), but that team has a lot of upside.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I've loudly been one of Buggs biggest critics, and I probably still will be based off of the response to last nights game from many of you. That said, he is improving.

I still haven't seen the "things happen when Buggs is on the floor" at least no more than any other guy, a lot of things happen when anyone on this team is on the floor. What I've seen is a guy that is playing within himself and he isn't turning the ball over, so by way of not being a negative I guess that's a positive. I'm with Pitino, I don't trust him, his defensive rotations are absolutely terrible and he has some massive defensive lapse in mental concentration usually at key times. Inbounds plays hes a problem because he can't throw it in, he can't set a pick, and he cant really come off a screen so what do you do with him? Offensively he is feast or famine, most of the time he is simply looking to pass the ball to the next guy, absolutely no threat to attack in a half court offense. If he had a chance to catch and shoot he was pulling the trigger last night which was good. He is improving, and we are better with him being able to get 15 minutes. I still don't think he should get the majority of the minutes.

One thing I do want to point out is that this isn't a 0 sum game. We don't have to get more from Buggs and less from Morris. Minutes, maybe yes, we have 40 minutes to distribute at the 3 spot, but we can get productive minutes from both. Morris needs the time in the offense and the film study just as bad as Buggs does, so I'm not a proponent of this Buggs>Morris stuff. We NEED them both next year.

I think Pitino has done it the right way with both of these guys. Morris has to make better decisions with the ball and be more of a reliable option on the defensive end to get minutes late in the game. Buggs has to be more of the same to get minutes in the beginning of halves. Fact of the matter is coach is going to play Mo, King, Mason, Dre and Math in most late game situations until one of those two break the trend or until Math loses coaches trust like he may have done late last night when Mason got more of the minutes at the PG in crunch time.
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There's no doubt that Buggs does some ugly things, but his actions lately (except at the end of the game) haven't resulted in turnovers or wasted offensive possessions. King and Morris effectively turn the ball over with awful decision making throughout the game. You say Buggs isn't a threat and passes the ball along the perimeter to other guys; I say Buggs doesn't catch and shoot baseline jumpers with momentum his momentum going into the corner (King), drive to the lane against three defenders while trying to avoid contact (Morris), welcome a trap in the corner instead of passing to an open teammate (King). No one on this team is perfect, but if anyone is forcing shots, I want it to be Dre, not Morris or King. So I'll opt with Bugg's length and athletism making an impact once or twice a game if it means king or Morris are not wasting our offensive possessions for 10 fewer minutes a game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MadtownGopher said:
I REALLY want to see Dorsey, Mason, Morris, Buggs, and Konate as the starters next year. If that line up can minimize the turnovers it could really flourish in Pitino's system. A bench of Jarvis, McBreyer, King, Diedhiou, and Nwankwo isn't horrible either. I'm sure I'll be labeled a Pollyanna by some (where is Howie by the way?), but that team has a lot of upside.
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I guess Howie was sort of right when it came to Morris, but maybe for the wrong reasons. I remember him bringing up offensive deficiencies and 3-point shooting percentage. Not sure whether defense was one of the knocks. But the real problem, of course, is shot selection and discipline. All that said, I see some potential for him to be good next year - and still make some big plays for us the rest of this season.
 

I've always thought and stated Buggs could/should be a serviceable 3, glad I was right and hope I get 'righter' as the season moves on.

He's done a good job so far and I think/hope the on court experience speeds up his learning process.
 



Buggs was in the line-up because of his length.....and it helped.
 

I like how I point out that this isn't a Buggs is better than xyz player and all of the quoted responses tear down others to boost up Buggs.... Same team Farva Same TEAM!!!

BGA, which play does Buggs make that no one else makes? I'm not trying to be combative, honestly. Would like to have a serious back and forth with someone about him that doesn't get personal. I'm not trying to attack Buggs, I just see SIGNIFICANT flaws in his game and I'm not seeing some of the same positives some of you are seeing.

Am I seeing improvement from Buggs? Absolutely, he looks better today than he did in the beginning of the season. Does his physical length and leaping ability get me excited about his potential? I'm with ya. Do I think he should be getting 20+ minutes game in and game out? No I don't, but I do think he should continue to get minutes.

Do I think Morris is as bad as you guys are making him out to be today? No, I can pull up a couple threads where many posters were calling him one of our best players from 2 weeks ago. We like to flip flop on him and its all about style. Morris fits the style much better than others on the roster, its just a matter of whether or not we can get the style on the court to match him.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I like how I point out that this isn't a Buggs is better than xyz player and all of the quoted responses tear down others to boost up Buggs.... Same team Farva Same TEAM!!!

BGA, which play does Buggs make that no one else makes? I'm not trying to be combative, honestly. Would like to have a serious back and forth with someone about him that doesn't get personal. I'm not trying to attack Buggs, I just see SIGNIFICANT flaws in his game and I'm not seeing some of the same positives some of you are seeing.

Am I seeing improvement from Buggs? Absolutely, he looks better today than he did in the beginning of the season. Does his physical length and leaping ability get me excited about his potential? I'm with ya. Do I think he should be getting 20+ minutes game in and game out? No I don't, but I do think he should continue to get minutes.

Do I think Morris is as bad as you guys are making him out to be today? No, I can pull up a couple threads where many posters were calling him one of our best players from 2 weeks ago. We like to flip flop on him and its all about style. Morris fits the style much better than others on the roster, its just a matter of whether or not we can get the style on the court to match him.
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Buggs is probably the only forward on the roster that scoops that board in the second half and squeezes in for the reverse layup. Buggs is a guy who when he is positioned right- which isn't always- provides length than you can't shoot over. Considering that Morris is out of position on defense fairly often himself- Buggs is a good replacement on the defensive side. I like Morris by the way- I still think there is a lot of potential to him, there is a little Levert in him. Also considering that the other option to pulling Morris is going 6-2 at the SF- I think that's just too small considering the rebounding and defensive liabilities of King and Mo. Buggs is also a guy who can rise up and get a shot off above a defender better than most on the squad. Finally, Buggs can be a big weapon in the press.

I like all the guys on the team and the point of my post is not to rip them but rather to say that all of them have deficiencies and there is a tendency to focus on those of Buggs. Part of that is that he is so noticeable on the floor - he has that length and a sort of inexplicable herky jerky athleticism that calls attention to himself- good and bad.
 

bga1 said:
Buggs is probably the only forward on the roster that scoops that board in the second half and squeezes in for the reverse layup. Buggs is a guy who when he is positioned right- which isn't always- provides length than you can't shoot over. Considering that Morris is out of position on defense fairly often himself- Buggs is a good replacement on the defensive side. I like Morris by the way- I still think there is a lot of potential to him, there is a little Levert in him. Also considering that the other option to pulling Morris is going 6-2 at the SF- I think that's just too small considering the rebounding and defensive liabilities of King and Mo. Buggs is also a guy who can rise up and get a shot off above a defender better than most on the squad. Finally, Buggs can be a big weapon in the press.

I like all the guys on the team and the point of my post is not to rip them but rather to say that all of them have deficiencies and there is a tendency to focus on those of Buggs. Part of that is that he is so noticeable on the floor - he has that length and a sort of inexplicable herky jerky athleticism that calls attention to himself- good and bad.
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How can you be the same bga from the Off-Topic board that gets everything wrong?? ;)
 


station19 said:
:clap:
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;)
bga1 said:
Buggs is probably the only forward on the roster that scoops that board in the second half and squeezes in for the reverse layup. Buggs is a guy who when he is positioned right- which isn't always- provides length than you can't shoot over. Considering that Morris is out of position on defense fairly often himself- Buggs is a good replacement on the defensive side. I like Morris by the way- I still think there is a lot of potential to him, there is a little Levert in him. Also considering that the other option to pulling Morris is going 6-2 at the SF- I think that's just too small considering the rebounding and defensive liabilities of King and Mo. Buggs is also a guy who can rise up and get a shot off above a defender better than most on the squad. Finally, Buggs can be a big weapon in the press.
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See, I don't see most of that.

So the positioning one, I see how he COULD be that. But he's so late defensively that he generally isn't a factor in altering shots. He has 7 blocks in his career as a Gopher, same as Morris. I'm not an advanced stats guy so there is likely something out there the could either support or refute my argument that his length isn't a positive in defending shots. I'll grant you that because of his size he SHOULD be able to stop others from shooting over him, but we haven't seen that yet (save last night IMPROVEMENT!)

As far as Buggs "rising up over defenders", I don't recall seeing that either. He only shoots when wide open. And I cannot cite examples, but I do remember him getting his shot blocked numerous times in half court sets because his shot is sooo slow. Again, he SHOULD be able to rise above others, but I don't recall ever seeing that. IMO he passes up on too many shots, I would like for him to shoot more.

The comparisons to Joey King and Carlos Morris are just not fair in my opinion. Both are asked to do much more that their minutes are not similar. I don't want to even start down that path as I think it clouds the arguement. Neither are great players today as you pointed out. I feel the opposite way about Buggs in that I think he gets unfair praise. People neglect that he adds very little from a dribble drive perspective simply because he doesn't dribble it off his feet like Morris.

bga1 said:
I like all the guys on the team and the point of my post is not to rip them but rather to say that all of them have deficiencies and there is a tendency to focus on those of Buggs. Part of that is that he is so noticeable on the floor - he has that length and a sort of inexplicable herky jerky athleticism that calls attention to himself- good and bad.
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I would say thats fair. He looks like a good basketball player, so people have these high hopes for him. I look like a good basketball player too, or I did at one time, but I'm not.
 

Well, first of all, I hope some of those who looked at Pitino's lineups and strategies during his formative months here and declared those to be immutable will learn something from this and stop writing foolish things like he would "never" play a three forward lineup. Those of you who have done that should remember a golden rule: when gazing at the future, intelligent people make unqualified predictions very reluctantly whereas stupid people have no memory of their historical errors.

I've been a little critical of Pitino's hiring because I thought that such a young coach with so little track record wouldn't have as much of the benefits of reflection from the trials and errors and having his assumptions challenged repeatedly, but I've admired how he has tried make different adjustments (and sometimes reversed them) over these recent weeks in order to make things work.

I like this change a lot. It makes the team bigger, doesn't sacrifice athleticism, increases the guard depth by reducing the number minutes three of them are playing at once, contributes to Buggs' understanding and confidence, and still leaves plenty of opportunities for Morris to make the contributions he is capable of making (I still like Morris). The temporary demotion seemed to have a positive effect overall on EE and it's quite possible that coming off the bench and being a primary scorer in those minutes could work well for Morris.

I also thought Pitino's brief use of Diedhou last night was oddly effective.
 

I'd rather he start over King, but either way I'll take it.
 




Was Fuller who Pitino was calling out with this comment last night?

-My biggest thing was one of our beat writers from the Pioneer Press implied that we couldn't press on the road, so we wanted to prove him wrong.
 

Bad Gopher said:
How can you be the same bga from the Off-Topic board that gets everything wrong?? ;)
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:) My brother keeps stealing my laptop. Cheap, heartless, idiot, conservative, whacko that he is. Dude has an 80 IQ on a good day- pay no attention to him. He claims he owns a business but he sleeps in my basement- unemployed.
 

bga1 said:
:) My brother keeps stealing my laptop. Cheap, heartless, idiot, conservative, whacko that he is. Dude has an 80 IQ on a good day- pay no attention to him. He claims he owns a business but he sleeps in my basement- unemployed.
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LOL...Yeah, see what you can do about that whack job ruining your reputation. :eek:
 

Winasota Gopher said:
;)

See, I don't see most of that.

So the positioning one, I see how he COULD be that. But he's so late defensively that he generally isn't a factor in altering shots. He has 7 blocks in his career as a Gopher, same as Morris. I'm not an advanced stats guy so there is likely something out there the could either support or refute my argument that his length isn't a positive in defending shots. I'll grant you that because of his size he SHOULD be able to stop others from shooting over him, but we haven't seen that yet (save last night IMPROVEMENT!)

As far as Buggs "rising up over defenders", I don't recall seeing that either. He only shoots when wide open. And I cannot cite examples, but I do remember him getting his shot blocked numerous times in half court sets because his shot is sooo slow. Again, he SHOULD be able to rise above others, but I don't recall ever seeing that. IMO he passes up on too many shots, I would like for him to shoot more.

The comparisons to Joey King and Carlos Morris are just not fair in my opinion. Both are asked to do much more that their minutes are not similar. I don't want to even start down that path as I think it clouds the arguement. Neither are great players today as you pointed out. I feel the opposite way about Buggs in that I think he gets unfair praise. People neglect that he adds very little from a dribble drive perspective simply because he doesn't dribble it off his feet like Morris.


I would say thats fair. He looks like a good basketball player, so people have these high hopes for him. I look like a good basketball player too, or I did at one time, but I'm not.
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He definetly alters shots with his length.

I also have seen, numerous times dating from last year, where he rises over defenders that our covering him tight to get a good shot over. If you have not seen him do that, you have not seen the games he plays a lot. Granted I agree he has had a couple blocked and he generally tries to get rid of the ball, by passing to a guy that leads to nowhere. I think buggs needs to be more aggressive on offense, like shooting more and not be so timid. Also, needs to learn the offense more , I have seen on several occasions other players have to tell him where to go....shouldnt he have learned the offense in two years that is beyond me.
 


Winasota Gopher said:
;)

See, I don't see most of that.

So the positioning one, I see how he COULD be that. But he's so late defensively that he generally isn't a factor in altering shots. He has 7 blocks in his career as a Gopher, same as Morris. I'm not an advanced stats guy so there is likely something out there the could either support or refute my argument that his length isn't a positive in defending shots. I'll grant you that because of his size he SHOULD be able to stop others from shooting over him, but we haven't seen that yet (save last night IMPROVEMENT!)

As far as Buggs "rising up over defenders", I don't recall seeing that either. He only shoots when wide open. And I cannot cite examples, but I do remember him getting his shot blocked numerous times in half court sets because his shot is sooo slow. Again, he SHOULD be able to rise above others, but I don't recall ever seeing that. IMO he passes up on too many shots, I would like for him to shoot more.

The comparisons to Joey King and Carlos Morris are just not fair in my opinion. Both are asked to do much more that their minutes are not similar. I don't want to even start down that path as I think it clouds the arguement. Neither are great players today as you pointed out. I feel the opposite way about Buggs in that I think he gets unfair praise. People neglect that he adds very little from a dribble drive perspective simply because he doesn't dribble it off his feet like Morris.


I would say thats fair. He looks like a good basketball player, so people have these high hopes for him. I look like a good basketball player too, or I did at one time, but I'm not.
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This is going to sound kooky.

Maybe winasota gopher you can't see what some of us see about buggs because you have a personal opinion on that player from what you seen in the past and don't want to be wrong through your subconscious mind. I have personally done this before I have said I don't think a player is that good when friends have told me I am wrong,
I would watch that said player and pick out the bad things he had done it was hard for me to be wrong. I have later admitted to doing this on some players that I was wrong when I looked at the big picture of what they did. Some players I think I was right about being bad just got really good with playing time and learning from their mistakes.

I just see a little bit in buggs, but I think how he plays is dictated by the game itself. When I say that I mean let's say he is playing bad don't expect him to be awesome in the second half. When he starts off good he rids that momentum. And you gotta love his hustle and tipping the ball persona, I have seen him a couple times this year get on the ground for that loose ball. And he had a key tip where we stole the ball last night late in the game.
 

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