EE & Mo Together Thoughts

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If Dre isn’t going to be at full health this season (and that appears to be at least reasonably likely), it’s time to revisit an option that could help to improve certain areas of the team’s performance.

There may be limited opportunities to employ it, but there most certainly are some where it’s worth it to give it a try – including tonight vs. Iowa.

Elliott Eliason and Mo Walker in the game together. A trailing 3-point threat in Joey King is loss offensively, but the boost to rebounding and interior defense (with the right match ups --- dependent on the opposition’s personnel on the floor) can be meaningful enough to pair these two.

Do it now (even if for only 5-10 minutes per game) and increase your chances of winning basketball games.

When I look at this team’s pieces, playing these two together at times may be needed to optimize performance.

Do you agree or disagree? (No right or wrong answers unless you disagree.)
 

I think to NEVER play these two together just because is not a very thorough way of thinking. It limits what you make the other team have to see/defend/prepare for. I think Pitino is showing that his coaching skills are not yet as good as his recruiting skills and thus it is not likely that we will win many games due to Xs and Os but more due to our players outplaying the opposition. It was the same thing I felt with Tubby though my big issue with Tubby was less of coaching in game as it was player development. I hope the coaching improves (while he is here) and the recruiting improves to the next level as well to help with the in game masking of an inexperienced coach. Player development with Pitino is unknown/not there until a player under his coaching has a massive improvement over a season or offseason.

Sadly, every player recruited by Tubby was as good the year before he got here as he was when he left the program and I would hate to see Pitino have just a little success in that regard.

Thats my two cents for what is worth.
 

There aren't THAT many 4s in this league that one of Mo / EE wouldn't be able to defend. I'm in favor of trying it situationally.
 

I think it has the potential to be a disaster if we are playing an agile PF and it won't allow us to trap and push the ball as much, but I'd still try it out. Mo was a great passer earlier in his career and he also exhibited some nice touch on the outside. No reason not to extend him a tad. It should also take up space on D, and hopefully give us some more beef on the glass. Again, it won't fit Pitino's ideal style of play, but this roster isn't made up for 40 minutes of that anyway yet.

I'd rather have tried this against our December home schedule, but it's still worth a shot now.

Go Gophers!!
 

Gopher Warrior said:
If Dre isn’t going to be at full health this season (and that appears to be at least reasonably likely), it’s time to revisit an option that could help to improve certain areas of the team’s performance.

There may be limited opportunities to employ it, but there most certainly are some where it’s worth it to give it a try – including tonight vs. Iowa.

Elliott Eliason and Mo Walker in the game together. A trailing 3-point threat in Joey King is loss offensively, but the boost to rebounding and interior defense (with the right match ups --- dependent on the opposition’s personnel on the floor) can be meaningful enough to pair these two.

Do it now (even if for only 5-10 minutes per game) and increase your chances of winning basketball games.

When I look at this team’s pieces, playing these two together at times may be needed to optimize performance.

Do you agree or disagree? (No right or wrong answers unless you disagree.)
Click to expand...

I agree that there are no right answers here. Here is the problem I see: If you play EE away from from the basket - he will be terrible. If you play Mo away from the basket you take away the value of his great low post moves. Maybe it works in a few situations where you can play zone. EE is just a really limited player who can't shoot and can't handle the ball. Great on defense under the bucket. I'd rather play Konate with Walker than EE.
 


Also, when you are 0-4, no idea should be off the table, within reason. EE and Mo are both in our top 7 best players, so any combination of that group is worth trying.

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
I think it has the potential to be a disaster if we are playing an agile PF and it won't allow us to trap and push the ball as much, but I'd still try it out. Mo was a great passer earlier in his career and he also exhibited some nice touch on the outside. No reason not to extend him a tad. It should also take up space on D, and hopefully give us some more beef on the glass. Again, it won't fit Pitino's ideal style of play, but this roster isn't made up for 40 minutes of that anyway yet.

I'd rather have tried this against our December home schedule, but it's still worth a shot now.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

I think Pitino is looking long term. How do you sell fast paced ball to recruits if you slow it down and muck it up with those two? I have seen the comments of recruit after recruit about how they love the system. If they think that Pitino will alter his system ala Tim Brewster, at the first failing- then they won't trust what they are walking into. I get it that you have to win as well. However, I just don't think that the team is so far off that we have to give up the Pitino style to go this direction. He might try it though- who knows?
 

I've been screaming at Pitino to at least TRY the 2 center look for the past couple weeks.

To restrict EE to 14 min/game and not even give a look to throwing both of them out there at the same time is a very limited way of thinking.
 

bga1 said:
I agree that there are no right answers here. Here is the problem I see: If you play EE away from from the basket - he will be terrible. If you play Mo away from the basket you take away the value of his great low post moves. Maybe it works in a few situations where you can play zone. EE is just a really limited player who can't shoot and can't handle the ball. Great on defense under the bucket. I'd rather play Konate with Walker than EE.
Click to expand...

Totally disagree. EE played a fair amount at the high post when we had Mbakwe/Williams flashing across the lane for dunks and showed flashes of being a pretty decent passer from there.
 



EE would never work. I posted on another related topic to run a high/ low post with Buggs up high and Mo low. Removing King from the lineup.
A. King has trouble setting the high screen
B. Buggs perimeter shot is equal to that of King
C. Buggs is a better athlete and quicker.
D. The high/low would create better wing shots and cuts around the high post.
E. Negative/positive. Would lose some on the defensive side. I think getting more playing time Buggs would board better. He is bigger and wider than King.
 

Pitino has said, and this isn't an exact quote, (Then something has gone terrible wrong.) regarding Mo and EE playing at the same time. I believe they did play a few minutes together in one of the non-con games. However, to see Mo at the 5 and EE or Gas-Tone and or Konate at the 4 might be interesting, very interesting.
 

Why not try a smaller lineup instead of going bigger? Try to bring in Mason and shift Morris to the 4? He will be outsized but I'm sure they could think of some defensive plan to counter that.

This way you get more ball handlers on the floor, quicker play, spread the floor by having legit threats to shoot, and it isn't like we would be missing much on the glass with Joey coming off the bench instead.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Totally disagree. EE played a fair amount at the high post when we had Mbakwe/Williams flashing across the lane for dunks and showed flashes of being a pretty decent passer from there.
Click to expand...

You must have a much better circulatory system then I. Watching EE receive the ball in space sends me to my knees. Him and Joey both.
 




tmvander said:
Why not try a smaller lineup instead of going bigger? Try to bring in Mason and shift Morris to the 4? He will be outsized but I'm sure they could think of some defensive plan to counter that.

This way you get more ball handlers on the floor, quicker play, spread the floor by having legit threats to shoot, and it isn't like we would be missing much on the glass with Joey coming off the bench instead.
Click to expand...

I'd be in favor of this against certain opponents, but then none of our 4 guards would be getting rest and you're just asking to wear those guys out. Playing 4 guys for 3 spots is already stretching it, now if you play all 4 at once at certain times, I just don't think it would end up being a net positive.
 

bga1 said:
I think Pitino is looking long term. How do you sell fast paced ball to recruits if you slow it down and muck it up with those two? I have seen the comments of recruit after recruit about how they love the system. If they think that Pitino will alter his system ala Tim Brewster, at the first failing- then they won't trust what they are walking into. I get it that you have to win as well. However, I just don't think that the team is so far off that we have to give up the Pitino style to go this direction. He might try it though- who knows?
Click to expand...

This is a good point.

EE and Mo together could work if EE had any offensive bones in his body. I think playing them together would cause too much clutter on offense. If EE plays outside the paint he's not a threat. If he plays inside there's no room for Mo, and while Mo has decent touch he still doesn't take too many outside shots. Say what you want about King and Buggs but them being able to shoot does provide some space for Dre, Morris, and Mason. That's not even including the defensive end where both guys are pretty slow. IMO, I think a good answer is to just play EE more. Him not starting this year could be a reason we're struggling. He's a mess on offense but he provides defense, rebounding, and energy.
 

jaymil said:
I'd be in favor of this against certain opponents, but then none of our 4 guards would be getting rest and you're just asking to wear those guys out. Playing 4 guys for 3 spots is already stretching it, now if you play all 4 at once at certain times, I just don't think it would end up being a net positive.
Click to expand...

With TV timeouts and normal timeouts I think they could pretty much avoid the fatigue, but I do see your point. Personally fouls would worry me here more than anything but again, this is just something they could try for minimal stretches same as the EE and MO idea.
 

My goal in this would be to optimize performance (net efficiency). EE can* help more than most others -- needs more minutes. His potential impact on defense is too great to have on the bench this much. His usage is low, but King's isn't high & Dre's need to be higher. I like it.
 

I don't know how our offense would flow but I'd like to see Bakary(more agile than walker or EE?), Walker, King, Morris, Mason at some point running a 2-3 zone. I know that defensively that'd be out longest team to put out on the floor while on offense leave it as an Iso for Morris or pick and role/pop with King and Mason. Other variations with EE instead of walker would work. Morris in instead of Hollins or Matheiu for his length on D and chucking ability on offense. King for pick and pop over putting EE or Gaston on the floor.
 


SelectionSunday said:
At 0-4 I'd say anything's on the table.
Click to expand...

We easily could have won 3 of those games. IMO, the best strategy is to stay the course. It's not like those guys aren't capable of playing better. Starting a player who has yet to play, playing 4 guards, putting your two slowest guys out there when your style is totally the opposite are all panic moves. Hopefully, Richard has more confidence in himself than to start scrambling like this. Getting uncomfortably close to thinking like Tim Brewster.
 

Can't hurt to try. As another poster noted, Eliason has shown in the past that he can be a good passer out of the high post
 

Good points. Main thing is finding a combo of guys who can finish a tight game. That mix has to be on the roster somewhere?
 

What everyone has said...clearly, we need to try something different. I've always been in favor of this if it's the right match-up. I remember when Tubby finally started doing that with Iverson and Sampson, and it worked well.
 

Mulligan said:
We easily could have won 3 of those games. IMO, the best strategy is to stay the course. It's not like those guys aren't capable of playing better. Starting a player who has yet to play, playing 4 guards, putting your two slowest guys out there when your style is totally the opposite are all panic moves. Hopefully, Richard has more confidence in himself than to start scrambling like this. Getting uncomfortably close to thinking like Tim Brewster.
Click to expand...

Totally agree
 

Tim1406 said:
I don't know how our offense would flow but I'd like to see Bakary(more agile than walker or EE?), Walker, King, Morris, Mason at some point running a 2-3 zone. I know that defensively that'd be out longest team to put out on the floor while on offense leave it as an Iso for Morris or pick and role/pop with King and Mason. Other variations with EE instead of walker would work. Morris in instead of Hollins or Matheiu for his length on D and chucking ability on offense. King for pick and pop over putting EE or Gaston on the floor.
Click to expand...

My choice of the "new ideas" offered.
 

We would have to slow down and run out of a 1-4 high set in order to have any offensive success with both players on the court. So far I've yet to see Coach Pitino run anything out of a 1-4 set. He generally starts with a 4 out 1 in set, which is designed for more guards on the floor. How many of us would advocate for an entire switch in philosophy at this point in the season? I wouldn't. Because of Coach Pitino's approach and philosophy to offense, it makes it illogical to run both Elliot and Mo together. That being said...I could always be wrong.
 

bga1 said:
I agree that there are no right answers here. Here is the problem I see: If you play EE away from from the basket - he will be terrible. If you play Mo away from the basket you take away the value of his great low post moves. Maybe it works in a few situations where you can play zone. EE is just a really limited player who can't shoot and can't handle the ball. Great on defense under the bucket. I'd rather play Konate with Walker than EE.
Click to expand...

I'm not too crazy about EE & Mo together either although I could see it work for very short minute periods. Konate with Walker would probably work better but I thought Elliot and Konate off the bench worked OK when it was tried in preconference. I think Elliot and Joey off the bench would work well enough again as that has been done many times before (most of last season as starters).

Elliot can score (highest FG% on the team) but he can't do it by creating his own shot; he usually needs a good pass or a follow up of a missed shot. He can play away from the basket but only for passing and some defending of stretch big men.
 

EliteOpinionGuy said:
I think to NEVER play these two together just because is not a very thorough way of thinking. It limits what you make the other team have to see/defend/prepare for.
Click to expand...

I agree with your general theme even if I don't care much for the idea of Elliot and Mo playing at the same time. If a coach can only accommodate one type of lineup and one style of play, he is a pretty limited coach (not worth over a million per year I would say). The best coaches figure out ways to utilize the various strengths of their lineups and that's going to result in some variations of what you see on the floor.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
If Dre isn’t going to be at full health this season (and that appears to be at least reasonably likely), it’s time to revisit an option that could help to improve certain areas of the team’s performance.

There may be limited opportunities to employ it, but there most certainly are some where it’s worth it to give it a try – including tonight vs. Iowa.

Elliott Eliason and Mo Walker in the game together. A trailing 3-point threat in Joey King is loss offensively, but the boost to rebounding and interior defense (with the right match ups --- dependent on the opposition’s personnel on the floor) can be meaningful enough to pair these two.

Do it now (even if for only 5-10 minutes per game) and increase your chances of winning basketball games.

When I look at this team’s pieces, playing these two together at times may be needed to optimize performance.

Do you agree or disagree? (No right or wrong answers unless you disagree.)
Click to expand...


Agree. Also, I think Hollins is what he is at this point. The issue isn't really even if he's "healthy." He just seems to have aged 15 years since he was a frosh.
 

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