University of Memphis forward Robert Dozier's initial SAT scores invalidated

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Interesting story I saw on Catspause today regarding Robert Dozier's SAT score being invalidated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4233718

Former University of Memphis forward Robert Dozier's initial SAT scores were invalidated by the company that scores the exam, and when he took the test a second time, he scored 540 points lower, ESPN.com has learned through an open records request.
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Of greatest concern is the gross inconsistency in his testing record," the committee wrote in its report. "His [SAT verbal score of 590] would place him in the 76th percentile nationally, while his [SAT math score of 670] places him in the 89th percentile. This raises a serious red flag, since his PSAT from October 2000 places him in the 4th percentile nationally in both areas. Such a remarkable improvement in testing abilities in the span of nine months is highly improbable, particularly for a student with a C-minus record in average college prep courses in high school."
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Laurinburg Institute became a pipeline for Memphis during Calipari's nine-year tenure. Former Memphis player Joey Dorsey also attended the school, which is located about 90 miles southeast of Charlotte. While at Laurinburg Institute, Dozier met the NCAA's initial eligibility requirements. He signed to play for the Tigers in November 2004 and enrolled the next year.
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Why do I read this -

During this past season, Calipari often boasted that Anderson and Dozier would graduate from Memphis in only four years.

Calipari proved to be prophetic: Dozier graduated from the school on May 9 and received a degree in interdisciplinary studies.
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And think of Jan Gangelhoff, massive academic fraud, and haven't been caught yet.
 

Yet, the NCAA Clearinghouse still cleared him to play. Why? If there is a question, any question, why even rule him eligible?

I have to think this raises serious questions about the NCAA's process and an investigation into its own practices are warranted at this point. Of course most people assume that since it's just Rose and Dozier in question that this is solely a Memphis/Calipari problem. We can keep punishing these on a case by case basis and ignore the systemic problem at its core (which allows the NCAA to look like it's doing something) or we can look at how flawed the entire system is and delve deeper into the problems of big time athletics and their place in Higher Education.
 

The Truth said:
Yet, the NCAA Clearinghouse still cleared him to play. Why? If there is a question, any question, why even rule him eligible?

I have to think this raises serious questions about the NCAA's process and an investigation into its own practices are warranted at this point. Of course most people assume that since it's just Rose and Dozier in question that this is solely a Memphis/Calipari problem. We can keep punishing these on a case by case basis and ignore the systemic problem at its core (which allows the NCAA to look like it's doing something) or we can look at how flawed the entire system is and delve deeper into the problems of big time athletics and their place in Higher Education.
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The Truth, it's ok to admit that Calipari cheats his ass off. We won't think any differently about you. Many Gopher fans were shocked and disappointed when Campbellsville's native son, Clem Haskins, was busted for cheating his ass off as well. The only difference between Haskins and Cal is Haskins left an incredible paper trail (literally and figuratively) and Cal seems better at hiding things. I'm sure Cal's not the only coach either, he just happens to be the current coach under the fire. But this will all blow over soon when UK starts winning big again and it will be nothing more than a blip on the Calipari resume that most UK fans will choose to ignore.

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
The Truth, it's ok to admit that Calipari cheats his ass off. We won't think any differently about you. Many Gopher fans were shocked and disappointed when Campbellsville's native son, Clem Haskins, was busted for cheating his ass off as well. The only difference between Haskins and Cal is Haskins left an incredible paper trail (literally and figuratively) and Cal seems better at hiding things. I'm sure Cal's not the only coach either, he just happens to be the current coach under the fire. But this will all blow over soon when UK starts winning big again and it will be nothing more than a blip on the Calipari resume that most UK fans will choose to ignore.

Go Gophers!!
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It's not okay Bleed. And it's actually a shame that Clem Haskins and Minnesota had to endure what you and they did because the NCAA practices selective enforcement and won't acknowledge the entire system is rotten at the D-1 level. What happened with Clem Haskins is no different than what happened at UTK in regards to it's national championship football team and Tee Martin.

You can't claim the moral high ground while strip mining the mountain. The NCAA continues to do just that.
 


I think it is highly unethical for the NCCA or SAT to flag tests. If you catch someone cheating, bust his a**. If you don't catch them cheating, you have to give the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe on the first test, he had no desire to be there and didn't try. Stupid, yes but being stupid or immature shouldn't invalidate your second score.

PS I have no doubt cheating on the SAT is rampant (and not just by athletes) but if you don't catch them, you can't punish them.
 

Imagine the reaction Kentucky fans would be having over this Cal and Memphis cheating if Donovan was there new coach, some how I don't think they would be defending them the way they are now and blaming the NCAA for everything. Funny how that works out.
 

JohnnyGopher said:
Imagine the reaction Kentucky fans would be having over this Cal and Memphis cheating if Donovan was there new coach, some how I don't think they would be defending them the way they are now and blaming the NCAA for everything. Funny how that works out.
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Considering Donovan has had his own issues with the NCAA and recruiting (and been called out for it by his peers which is a rare thing in the coaching fraternity) it's hard for him to take the high ground either. UK just had to report a secondary violation that resulted in a three year disassociation from UK Athletics for a local establishment because some players under Coach Smith (and continued under Gillispie and I'm willing to wager has been going on far longer than that) were being comped meals. Does that make Coach Smith unethical or does it illustrate a problem with oversight and enforcement?

You or I can't speak for everyone. There are people who wanted Calipari two years ago and there are some who don't want him now. It's human nature and the old adage is true: You can't please everyone all the time.
 

The Truth said:
Considering Donovan has had his own issues with the NCAA and recruiting (and been called out for it by his peers which is a rare thing in the coaching fraternity) it's hard for him to take the high ground either. UK just had to report a secondary violation that resulted in a three year disassociation from UK Athletics for a local establishment because some players under Coach Smith (and continued under Gillispie and I'm willing to wager has been going on far longer than that) were being comped meals. Does that make Coach Smith unethical or does it illustrate a problem with oversight and enforcement?

You or I can't speak for everyone. There are people who wanted Calipari two years ago and there are some who don't want him now. It's human nature and the old adage is true: You can't please everyone all the time.
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The Truth, I remember former Vandy/USC coach who is a radio guy in Nashville now (can't remember his name) called Donovan a cheater several years ago. I also was at Purdue when the assistant coach (a scapegoat for Keady) was demoted to some job on campus bacause he bought a burger for a potential recruit. Head coaches never get any punishment from NCAA. Coach Cal will not get it either. Only schools and fans suffer. Calipari with destroy UK's reputaion in a few years. Then, he will take another job in another school.
 



The-Real-Truth said:
The Truth, I remember former Vandy/USC coach who is a radio guy in Nashville now (can't remember his name) called Donovan a cheater several years ago. I also was at Purdue when the assistant coach (a scapegoat for Keady) was demoted to some job on campus bacause he bought a burger for a potential recruit. Head coaches never get any punishment from NCAA. Coach Cal will not get it either. Only schools and fans suffer. Calipari with destroy UK's reputaion in a few years. Then, he will take another job in another school.
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I'm not concerned with Kentucky's reputation because it's always that of the "Evil Empire". When Pitino was the coach UK was cheating and he was a slick used car salesman with no substance. When Tubby was the coach UK fans were evil racists with unfair expectations. Jesus Christ could be the coach at UK and rival fans and the media would be against it.

The coach you were referring to was Eddie Fogler (a UNC alum and a guy while a great basketball mind is a bit of curmudgeon. I once listened to him lecture a youth basketball coach for playing zone for a good five minutes on the radio in a very condescending manner) and he was drawn into it by his old pal Roy Williams. Former Stanford and current Cal coach Mike Montgomery even got in on the action. It all stemmed from the Mike Miller recruitment and the involvement of former UK player, current Denver Nuggets executive and close Donovan friend Brett Bearup.

It was hypocritical for Williams to even say anything considering his own history with the NCAA and some questionable recruiting practices regarding guys like Lester Earl and the Rush brothers. I'm not saying that the Miller situation was above board (it wasn't) and that Donovan had zero blame but Williams was extremely bitter that he lost out on Miller and for a fellow coach to air that publicly was shocking at the time.
 

The Truth said:
I'm not concerned with Kentucky's reputation because it's always that of the "Evil Empire". When Pitino was the coach UK was cheating and he was a slick used car salesman with no substance. When Tubby was the coach UK fans were evil racists with unfair expectations. Jesus Christ could be the coach at UK and rival fans and the media would be against it.

The coach you were referring to was Eddie Fogler (a UNC alum and a guy while a great basketball mind is a bit of curmudgeon. I once listened to him lecture a youth basketball coach for playing zone for a good five minutes on the radio in a very condescending manner) and he was drawn into it by his old pal Roy Williams. Former Stanford and current Cal coach Mike Montgomery even got in on the action. It all stemmed from the Mike Miller recruitment and the involvement of former UK player, current Denver Nuggets executive and close Donovan friend Brett Bearup.

It was hypocritical for Williams to even say anything considering his own history with the NCAA and some questionable recruiting practices regarding guys like Lester Earl and the Rush brothers. I'm not saying that the Miller situation was above board (it wasn't) and that Donovan had zero blame but Williams was extremely bitter that he lost out on Miller and for a fellow coach to air that publicly was shocking at the time.
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Thanks. I am enjoying your posts. We seem to have some common opinion. Yes it was Eddie Fogler. Right after I sent the reply, I remembered his name. I had seen him in a store in Nashville. I really got the same attitude from him as you mentioned above. He looked at me like, do you know who I am? I never knew about Miller's situation. Thanks for the info.
 

Winnipegopher said:
I think it is highly unethical for the NCCA or SAT to flag tests. If you catch someone cheating, bust his a**. If you don't catch them cheating, you have to give the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe on the first test, he had no desire to be there and didn't try. Stupid, yes but being stupid or immature shouldn't invalidate your second score.

PS I have no doubt cheating on the SAT is rampant (and not just by athletes) but if you don't catch them, you can't punish them.
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I completely agree...the NCAA is an absolute joke with some things. If you're not smart enough to catch him right away, don't penalize the kid for getting a good score. Maybe it's as simple as he was unprepared on the first and then studied hard the second time.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
The Truth, I remember former Vandy/USC coach who is a radio guy in Nashville now (can't remember his name) called Donovan a cheater several years ago. I also was at Purdue when the assistant coach (a scapegoat for Keady) was demoted to some job on campus bacause he bought a burger for a potential recruit. Head coaches never get any punishment from NCAA. Coach Cal will not get it either. Only schools and fans suffer. Calipari with destroy UK's reputaion in a few years. Then, he will take another job in another school.
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With all due respect, I am not sure where you are coming from with your statement that Cal will destroy UK's reputation in a few years. After all, he was at Memphis for what, 9 or 10 years without an incodent what so ever and now he will all of a sudden destroy UK in just a couple of years. LOL!!!! Sorry, but I am not sure where you are coming from with this. Maybe it is just an opinion.
 



The Truth said:
I'm not concerned with Kentucky's reputation because it's always that of the "Evil Empire". When Pitino was the coach UK was cheating and he was a slick used car salesman with no substance. When Tubby was the coach UK fans were evil racists with unfair expectations. Jesus Christ could be the coach at UK and rival fans and the media would be against it.

The coach you were referring to was Eddie Fogler (a UNC alum and a guy while a great basketball mind is a bit of curmudgeon. I once listened to him lecture a youth basketball coach for playing zone for a good five minutes on the radio in a very condescending manner) and he was drawn into it by his old pal Roy Williams. Former Stanford and current Cal coach Mike Montgomery even got in on the action. It all stemmed from the Mike Miller recruitment and the involvement of former UK player, current Denver Nuggets executive and close Donovan friend Brett Bearup.

It was hypocritical for Williams to even say anything considering his own history with the NCAA and some questionable recruiting practices regarding guys like Lester Earl and the Rush brothers. I'm not saying that the Miller situation was above board (it wasn't) and that Donovan had zero blame but Williams was extremely bitter that he lost out on Miller and for a fellow coach to air that publicly was shocking at the time.
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Truth, I have read a lot of posts of yours before I started posting on this fine board, certainly hope to reply to many yet to come. You are right, as of now, the Lexington beat writers are taking shots at Coach Cal for the Memphis and SAT scores. Reference the recent Bill Story article from the Lexington Herald Leader. UK fans hate him with a passion at this time. The Texas Longhorns will win the BCS this year too. USC and UCLA should both be saddled with big sanctions in both basketball and football but it will not happen because of the outstanding market value. Your comment about Slick Rick was great. But you must admit, he is and always will be a big time coach for a big time program.

TexasBlue
 

Ethics matter

"I think it is highly unethical for the NCCA or SAT to flag tests."

I know the NCAA is far from perfect just like a lot of its members schools, but respectfully I can't agree with that at all. What that's bascially saying is "anything goes" with regards to SAT and ACT scores. So if the NCAA, testing agency or a school sees that a kid with a below-2.0 GPA has an off-the-charts test score (like Dozier did), they should stand idly by and not check into it? There has to be some semblance of an attempt at ethics.
 

TexasBlue said:
With all due respect, I am not sure where you are coming from with your statement that Cal will destroy UK's reputation in a few years. After all, he was at Memphis for what, 9 or 10 years without an incodent what so ever and now he will all of a sudden destroy UK in just a couple of years. LOL!!!! Sorry, but I am not sure where you are coming from with this. Maybe it is just an opinion.
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You can LOL as much as you want. Only time will tell. Memphis is not as high profile as Lexington. To be a head coach in UK is like to be the president of the country. You have to take care of Lobbyists or else.
 

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