Something to think about....

Curseislifted33

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Goldensports is reporting Minnesota is the only FBS team to have a 6 win improvement from last year's record. very impressive to me....
 


What if we have another 6 win improvement next season...:)
 

It is easy to forget how much we have improved from last year with the start we had and the end we had. With as many young players as we have I guess I am not surprised. Yong players wear down during a big ten schedule. That is why you don’t see really young teams win the big ten historically.
 

As we gain more perspective on the year it'll look better and better. We improve everywhere going into next season. That's exciting.
 


Something else to think about...

This program won 6 games the year before last so it's a one game improvement over 2 years. There's no excuse for 1-11 last year. That's the only reason 7-5 looks so good right now.
 

Something else to think about...

This program won 6 games the year before last so it's a one game improvement over 2 years. There's no excuse for 1-11 last year. That's the only reason 7-5 looks so good right now.

No excuses for the 1-11? You mean except for the complete lack of talent that the new coaching staff inherited, right Art?
 

Something else to think about...

This program won 6 games the year before last so it's a one game improvement over 2 years. There's no excuse for 1-11 last year. That's the only reason 7-5 looks so good right now.

Do the mighty Michigan Wolverines have an excuse for this season? Last year they beat FLA in a New Year's day bowl game, and they were lousy this year. They had the same growing pains this year as the Gophers did last, namely: a new staff, new system, new type of incoming recruits, etc.

There is absolutely NO question they have a huge advantage in talent as well. What say you Barrei-, er, Chad Hartm-, er Reuss-, I mean Art?
 

Well, let’s look at this statistically. I plagiarized some numbers from someone on GH a long time ago to some in an email so I am sorry I do not remember who to give credit, but to illustrate my point.

Barry Alvarez:
1990 ... 1-10
1991 ... 5-6
1992 ... 5-6
1994 ... 10-1 (Rose Bowl)

Gary Barnett (at Northwestern):
1992 ... 3-8
1993 ... 2-9
1994 ... 3-7-1
1995 ... 10-2 (Rose Bowl)

Ron Zook:
2005 ... 2-10
2006 ... 2-10
2007 ... 8-4 (Rose Bowl)

Kirk Ferentz:

1999 ... 1-10
2000 ... 3-9
2001 ... 7-5
2002 ... 11-2 (Orange Bowl)


Here is my statistical analysis and my thoughts. What I notice about the teams is that they struggle for at least three years before they win in the Big Ten. Thus you need to be playing Jr’s and Sr’s that have come up in your system. The upperclassmen of the forth year have been through the system changes and developed into what the coaches needed to make the system work. Yes that sucks for the players that get caught in the transitions, but that is life. Everyone wants to win now, and they do not have the patients that are necessary to let young men develop. The Big Ten is a top tear conference. Kids that played in high school last year or the year before can not come in and compete against men every week through a Big Ten schedule. They get worn down, tired or hurt and if the someone goes down someone that is even less prepared to compete at the Big Ten level comes in.
 



The difference between the analysis of s93skier is we hit Rock Bottom last year under Brewster, we've been 7-5 and 8-4 recently.

I did see improvement this year which is good to see.
 

Every time someone posts those records for Alvarez, Ferentz, Barnett, and Zook I always ask....of those 4 guys, how many inherited a program that just went to a bowl game and did so 5 of the 6 previous years? Guess what? Nobody ever answers because they're in a box.

Those 4 coaches took over programs that were already rock bottom. There was nowhere to go but up. Brewster took over a program that won 6 games. They hit rock bottom on his watch. I'm not saying it can't or won't get better but people seem to forget this stuff. I'm no Masonite but my God, we're ready to rename University Ave "Brewster Way" after he won ONE more game than Mason did in his final year....
 

I'm no Masonite but my God, we're ready to rename University Ave "Brewster Way" after he won ONE more game than Mason did in his final year....

I'm sure after the victory over Purdue you were on here....c'mon guys, settle down every one. Keep it in perspective. We'll probably lose the last four.
 

Every time someone posts those records for Alvarez, Ferentz, Barnett, and Zook I always ask....of those 4 guys, how many inherited a program that just went to a bowl game and did so 5 of the 6 previous years? Guess what? Nobody ever answers because they're in a box.

Those 4 coaches took over programs that were already rock bottom. There was nowhere to go but up. Brewster took over a program that won 6 games. They hit rock bottom on his watch. I'm not saying it can't or won't get better but people seem to forget this stuff. I'm no Masonite but my God, we're ready to rename University Ave "Brewster Way" after he won ONE more game than Mason did in his final year....

Iowa was not at rock bottom when Ferentz took over. They were two years removed from a Top Ten ranking, one year removed from a bowl game, and had been to 14 bowl games and won three Big Ten titles in the 17 years prior to Ferentz showing up.
 



Art-You're right and you're wrong. You're definitely right that the 2006 team won 6 games under Mason. But the 2007 team didn't return the 3 year starter at QB or have a ready replacement in the upper class. The team also lost it's best offensive player in TE Speath. We returned the leading rusher but inadequate depth behind him when he got hurt (or started fumbling). Defensively the team lost definitely their best and probably their second or third best returning starter due to an off field issue and then had to play with an injured Van De Steeg throughout the season.

So yes, we went to a bowl in 2006 but the team in 2007 didn't have the talent of 2006 either due to graduation, injuries with a lack of depth, or other issues. However, we should have won more than one game. The team turned the ball over way too much and even though the defense was consistently overmatched they were poorly coached.

I'm not ready to annoint Brewster as anything other than a great recruiter and a guy that tries to fix problems he has identified (Roof last year, Davis this year). The measure of Brewster is going to be wins, losses and bowl appearance, the same measure for every college coach. But he still has time to get his players in to the system before he has a mandate to win now.
 

Art-You're right and you're wrong. You're definitely right that the 2006 team won 6 games under Mason. But the 2007 team didn't return the 3 year starter at QB or have a ready replacement in the upper class. The team also lost it's best offensive player in TE Speath. We returned the leading rusher but inadequate depth behind him when he got hurt (or started fumbling). Defensively the team lost definitely their best and probably their second or third best returning starter due to an off field issue and then had to play with an injured Van De Steeg throughout the season.

So yes, we went to a bowl in 2006 but the team in 2007 didn't have the talent of 2006 either due to graduation, injuries with a lack of depth, or other issues. However, we should have won more than one game. The team turned the ball over way too much and even though the defense was consistently overmatched they were poorly coached.

I'm not ready to annoint Brewster as anything other than a great recruiter and a guy that tries to fix problems he has identified (Roof last year, Davis this year). The measure of Brewster is going to be wins, losses and bowl appearance, the same measure for every college coach. But he still has time to get his players in to the system before he has a mandate to win now.

The biggest loss from the 2006 team was Dominic Jones, who was the best and most valuable player on that 2006 squad. Add in starters Keith Massey and Alex Daniels getting the boot, the graduation losses and other attrition, and you have a terrible team coming back for 2007. Mason might have coaxed that group to a 4- or 5-win season, but they would not have a bowl game. Brewster got them one win, partially because of the transition and a new coach, etc.
 

The biggest loss from the 2006 team was Dominic Jones, who was the best and most valuable player on that 2006 squad. Add in starters Keith Massey and Alex Daniels getting the boot, the graduation losses and other attrition, and you have a terrible team coming back for 2007. Mason might have coaxed that group to a 4- or 5-win season, but they would not have a bowl game. Brewster got them one win, partially because of the transition and a new coach, etc.

Don't forget about probably our 2nd best offensive player--Logan Payne (now in the NFL). Also, our most experienced OL in Joe Ainslie. Seriously, the talent drop from 2006-2007 was just unbelievable. Now trust me...I'm not completely sold on Brewster--I think he has a lot of work to do and a lot to prove (even he admits that)--but those who rip him for tearing down the program last year are clueless...as are those who anoint him the savior for getting us to 7 wins this year. In my heart of hearts, I believe he'll get this program to a New Year's Bowl in the next 3 years...mainly because he's an amazing recruiter and will totally UP the level of talent on the team. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen...
 

Every time someone posts those records for Alvarez, Ferentz, Barnett, and Zook I always ask....of those 4 guys, how many inherited a program that just went to a bowl game and did so 5 of the 6 previous years? Guess what? Nobody ever answers because they're in a box.

Those 4 coaches took over programs that were already rock bottom. There was nowhere to go but up. Brewster took over a program that won 6 games. They hit rock bottom on his watch. I'm not saying it can't or won't get better but people seem to forget this stuff. I'm no Masonite but my God, we're ready to rename University Ave "Brewster Way" after he won ONE more game than Mason did in his final year....

I cannot agree with you more Art, there is no excuse for a team to go 1-11 after going to a bowl game the year before. The talent was not that bad last year in my opinion.
 

guys quit nagging on the past. 1-11 was two years ago. yes it was awful but what is the point in still saying awful it is. you are just being negative. yes it is more of a 'realist' way to look at it but I prefer to look at the present and future and to me those both look brighter than the mediocre and average years of mason. I feel we are going for Big things and setting our goals high for the future. I believe putting everything towards achieving the best thing possible is what life is about, and for the gophers that is the Rose Bowl.
 


blah, blah, blah. same posts over and over.

What about Michigan, Art? There was infinitely more talent in the coffers when RR took over (read my previous post re: beating FLA, etc.). They made the same type of transition to a spread and different defensive strategies, totally different staff, etc. And...

What happened, genius? There were no problems at all, right? The winningest program ever, with countless high school all-americans on the roster, the benchmark of success for our conference, and they fell flat on their asses this year. Maybe they didn't go 1-11, but the talent in that program isn't even comparable to what Brew had here last year.

We get it. You are not a Gopher fan. No need to keep posting here. What kind of obsession do you have to post over 2400 times on a rival's message board? Absolutely pathetic. Go away.
 


What about Michigan, Art? There was infinitely more talent in the coffers when RR took over (read my previous post re: beating FLA, etc.). They made the same type of transition to a spread and different defensive strategies, totally different staff, etc. And...

What happened, genius? There were no problems at all, right? The winningest program ever, with countless high school all-americans on the roster, the benchmark of success for our conference, and they fell flat on their asses this year. Maybe they didn't go 1-11, but the talent in that program isn't even comparable to what Brew had here last year.

We get it. You are not a Gopher fan. No need to keep posting here. What kind of obsession do you have to post over 2400 times on a rival's message board? Absolutely pathetic. Go away.

I think one of the differences may be that RR has shown in the past that he can build a winner. That is still the unknown with Brewster though I hope he does well and builds the gophers into a winner.
 

Art could be right. And after 4 or 5 years if Brew has not produced then I will concede that we gambled and lost. I have said with how much harder our schedule gets next year I think 7 and 5 or 8 and 4 would show incredible improvement. We have to give it time. My family has been involved with this program in one-way or another since the mid sixties. My dad and my uncle both played at the U. My dad was college coach for a while and my uncle officiated D1 for about ten years. They both hated Mason and are skeptical of Brewster. They say that they like a lot of what they see, but some things they would like to see done differently. There are different ways to win. Time will tell.
 

Every time someone posts those records for Alvarez, Ferentz, Barnett, and Zook I always ask....of those 4 guys, how many inherited a program that just went to a bowl game and did so 5 of the 6 previous years? Guess what? Nobody ever answers because they're in a box.
Those 4 coaches took over programs that were already rock bottom. There was nowhere to go but up. Brewster took over a program that won 6 games. They hit rock bottom on his watch. I'm not saying it can't or won't get better but people seem to forget this stuff. I'm no Masonite but my God, we're ready to rename University Ave "Brewster Way" after he won ONE more game than Mason did in his final year....
Well, Rich Rodriguez has proved he can win on the big stage (see West Virginia). He inherited a team that beat Florida in a New Year's Day bowl. He went 3-9 this year. Based on your analysis, Rodriguez should have been able to get to a big bowl game. Dick Rod basically proves that when a new coach comes in with a new system and a new staff, there are going to be some major bumps in the road. I can guarantee that Rodriguez will have Michigan at or near the top of the Big 10 next year or the year after.
 

Every time someone posts those records for Alvarez, Ferentz, Barnett, and Zook I always ask....of those 4 guys, how many inherited a program that just went to a bowl game and did so 5 of the 6 previous years? Guess what? Nobody ever answers because they're in a box.

Those 4 coaches took over programs that were already rock bottom. There was nowhere to go but up. Brewster took over a program that won 6 games. They hit rock bottom on his watch. I'm not saying it can't or won't get better but people seem to forget this stuff. I'm no Masonite but my God, we're ready to rename University Ave "Brewster Way" after he won ONE more game than Mason did in his final year....

A blind man could see that the program was going in the wrong direction under Mason. Our recruiting classes were getting worse, not better and it was showing on the field. In Mason's last year, we almost lost to NDSU at home and needed a miracle finish to win 6 games. We had that season with a senior QB. With no infusion of talent and starting a redshirt freshman QB the next year, it was going to be worse and it was. I will grant you that it shouldn't have been 1-11, but it probably wasn't going to be any better than 3-8 with any coach at the helm.

We let Mason stay too long, how many coaches get a decade without a top 3 finish in their own conference and a terrible record against the schools biggest rivals?

Brewster has a lot to prove, especially after the inexcusable collapse to end this season. That said, there is reason for some optimism starting with the recruiting. It is also nice to have a head coach that 1. Says nice things about the University and it's potential to succeed and 2. Takes personal blame for losses as opposed to blaming everyone else under the sun.


Here's a stat for you Art: Starting with the class of 2004 through the class of 2007, the Gophers finished no higher than 9th out of 11 in the Big Ten recruiting rankings. I would be surprised if anyone other than Barnett had to deal with such a lack of talent. I would much rather inherit talent than inherit a record of minor bowls built on cream puff non-conference wins.
 

Personally, I feel Brewster has already been a great get for this program for one simple reason: He has gotten top players to WANT TO BE GOPHERS. This is something that has not been the case in a long time. There is excitement, if not from media and some fans, at the very least from players around the program and in the state, who feels something special is building up here and want to play here. The fact that we can even discuss the remote chance of landing a guy like Seantrel already speaks volumes to the affect of Brewster. This program hasn't seen this in ages. How people can be so utterly negative about this is a little baffling to me. Brewster has to prove to be a true coach on the field, yes, but after two years of head coaching experience, I'd say he's getting a heck of a lot better, and I expect him to continue to get better. In the meantime, he can keep rolling in highly recruited talent to the program and keep infusing top 25 classes into the Twin Cities, which brings me to my next point.

Let's say Brewster flops. He doesn't get the job done. We decide to fire him. I, for one, have to believe that this job would be quite appealing to a coach who can take all this talent Brewster brought in and coach it up to be a winner. This program was starved of talent, and Brewster has already started to infuse some here. I think even if he doesn't get it done entirely, at least he will have set a base that might allow a future coach to be more successful. The program is healthier now than it was 2 years ago IMHO.
 

Personally, I feel Brewster has already been a great get for this program for one simple reason: He has gotten top players to WANT TO BE GOPHERS. This is something that has not been the case in a long time. There is excitement, if not from media and some fans, at the very least from players around the program and in the state, who feels something special is building up here and want to play here. The fact that we can even discuss the remote chance of landing a guy like Seantrel already speaks volumes to the affect of Brewster. This program hasn't seen this in ages. How people can be so utterly negative about this is a little baffling to me. Brewster has to prove to be a true coach on the field, yes, but after two years of head coaching experience, I'd say he's getting a heck of a lot better, and I expect him to continue to get better. In the meantime, he can keep rolling in highly recruited talent to the program and keep infusing top 25 classes into the Twin Cities, which brings me to my next point.

Let's say Brewster flops. He doesn't get the job done. We decide to fire him. I, for one, have to believe that this job would be quite appealing to a coach who can take all this talent Brewster brought in and coach it up to be a winner. This program was starved of talent, and Brewster has already started to infuse some here. I think even if he doesn't get it done entirely, at least he will have set a base that might allow a future coach to be more successful. The program is healthier now than it was 2 years ago IMHO.

Monty, you bring up some excellent points. From my perspective I guess I thought we should have went with a coach who had proved himself as not only a recruiter but also as an on the field coach, but what is done is done. I just don't feel that a Big Ten school should be a training ground for a coach who had no head coaching or coordinator experience, that is what the non BCS conferences are for.
 

I cannot agree with you more Art, there is no excuse for a team to go 1-11 after going to a bowl game the year before. The talent was not that bad last year in my opinion.

Umm......your 2008 starting cornerbacks....Jamal Harris and Ryan Collado. Your starting linebackers.....John Shevlin and Mike Sherels. Your starting wide receivers.....Ralph Spry and Tray Herndon. Your starting quarterback.....a redshirt freshman. Your starting running back.....a true freshman.
 

Monty, you bring up some excellent points. From my perspective I guess I thought we should have went with a coach who had proved himself as not only a recruiter but also as an on the field coach, but what is done is done. I just don't feel that a Big Ten school should be a training ground for a coach who had no head coaching or coordinator experience, that is what the non BCS conferences are for.

Oh, I definitely understand that perspective. When Brewster was hired, I was thinking the exact same thing, and in some ways, do still think that. A gamble in the truest sense of the word, and I didn't get it or like it. But once he was hired, I couldn't do anything but try to support the guy in his efforts to turn this program into an upper Big Ten level program. It's just nice to see someone who truly wants to be here and really wants to put Gopher football on the map, whether he is capable or not remains to be seen.
 

Umm......your 2008 starting cornerbacks....Jamal Harris and Ryan Collado. Your starting linebackers.....John Shevlin and Mike Sherels. Your starting wide receivers.....Ralph Spry and Tray Herndon. Your starting quarterback.....a redshirt freshman. Your starting running back.....a true freshman.

Umm, do you honestly think that we had less talent than Florida Atlantic and North Dakota State, wow.
 




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