I would suggest G4L and BGA1 watch

[ruppertflywheel]

a segment on 60 minutes concerning the first 100 days of office and you can chuck your shoes at Obama and Biden. Maybe that will make you feel better. Obama will hold office for 8 years and Congress will then reinact the "Third Term Law" that will overwhelmingly be approved by the House and Senate. Both you guys have turned this off topic board into a political vendetta that is quite frankly getting to be moronic.

[Gopher4Life]

ruppert,

I hope you don't swallow everything CBS and 60 Minutes feed you.

[Dr.Don]

ruppert,

I hope you don't swallow everything CBS and 60 Minutes feed you.


I, for one, do NOT swallow everthing CBS and 60 Minutes feeds me, but on the otherhand, I swallow NOTHING that Beej and G4L feed me.

[maroonfive]

going to contract the swine flu and die they really have nothing to worry about.

Go Gophers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bga1]

I, for one, do NOT swallow everthing CBS and 60 Minutes feeds me, but on the otherhand, I swallow NOTHING that Beej and G4L feed me.

Good!!! If you did I would be worried that I should reexamine my position.

[bga1]

a segment on 60 minutes concerning the first 100 days of office and you can chuck your shoes at Obama and Biden. Maybe that will make you feel better. Obama will hold office for 8 years and Congress will then reinact the "Third Term Law" that will overwhelmingly be approved by the House and Senate. Both you guys have turned this off topic board into a political vendetta that is quite frankly getting to be moronic.


Ruppert - You may be unable to comprehend this, but there is absolutely no political vendetta here. I wish with all I have that Obama would succeed. It's important to me and my family as it is to the nation. I take issue with him strictly on policy. You may note I have consistently refrained from name calling him or doing the things that were so popular for you and others to do when Bush was president. I have posted a lot because there are just an amazing amount of issues that are being dealt with at the present time.

Obama has shown no lack of initiative- he has been incredibly active in attempting to push through the legislation he wants. I simply believe it will be disasterous for our country in the long term. What he proposes is in departure with the foundational values of our what made our nation great. I do not chalk this up to bad will on his part- I simply believe he is wrong.

[jamiche]

Beej: While you don't engage in the hateful, almost frightening name calling of G4, you never miss an opportunity to paint Obama as a socialist and your newfound vigilance is comical in light of your knee jerk support of You Know Who during eight years when the country went from peace, prosperity, budget surpluses to the biggest collection of messes that any new president has inherited in American history.

[bga1]

Beej: While you don't engage in the hateful, almost frightening name calling of G4, you never miss an opportunity to paint Obama as a socialist and your newfound vigilance is comical in light of your knee jerk support of You Know Who during eight years when the country went from peace, prosperity, budget surpluses to the biggest collection of messes that any new president has inherited in American history.


Jamiche-

Regarding peace- I am trying to remember who did 9-11? And did the the country demand action at the time?

Regarding prosperity- I think you should realize that the nation was going into a recession when Bush arrived in office. That's a matter of factual record.........we were going through the dot com fallout and the exodus of manufacturing to China if you recall. Bush had to allow the rebuilding of the economy by providing business incentives. He did this very successfully.

Regarding budget surpluses - you should realize that Clinton brought military budgets to an all time low as a percentage of GNP. This was something Bush had to pay dearly for once we were on a war footing with terrorism.

Regarding the messes Obama has inherited. Mnay of these were so badly exacerrbated by your friends in the Democratic party who so dearly wanted to loan money to people that could not afford it.

I don't know whether Obama himself is a true "socialist"- he may be. I do know that many of his policies are socialistic in nature and I think that is a factual statement.

[Schnoodler]

Beej: While you don't engage in the hateful, almost frightening name calling of G4, you never miss an opportunity to paint Obama as a socialist and your newfound vigilance is comical in light of your knee jerk support of You Know Who during eight years when the country went from peace, prosperity, budget surpluses to the biggest collection of messes that any new president has inherited in American history.


this clearly taints anything BGA will ever say. funny how credibility works.

[bga1]

this clearly taints anything BGA will ever say. funny how credibility works.


Anything I say will be tainted in your eyes. Therefore I certainly don't seek your stamp of credibility nor would I want it. You live in a different world, ideologically, than I do. You pompously like to view yours as superior and more intellectual, because you are a product of academia.

I just like to think of our views as different and I currently am pleased to be in opposition to yours.

[Gopher4Life]

Don,

You're a true piece of work and you should take great pride in that.

jamiche,

Our young president is a deceitful, arrogant leftist. With idiots now controlling both sides of Congress, Americans won't recognize their country when he finishes his tinkering. Is that what you mean by namecalling?

[Schnoodler]

Anything I say will be tainted in your eyes. Therefore I certainly don't seek your stamp of credibility nor would I want it. You live in a different world, ideologically, than I do. You pompously like to view yours as superior and more intellectual, because you are a product of academia.

I just like to think of our views as different and I currently am pleased to be in opposition to yours.


the real problem is that you're extremist and you don't even see it. Your blind obedience to the far right strips anything you say about anything else of it's credibility. Your arguments at least have foundation which puts you ahead of another, but so narrowly based not so much so.

Just do yourself a favor and if any of your views sound like a right wing sound bite, spend a little more time digging deeper until you can restate it in another way.

Plus if you knew me you'd know just how funny what you said really is. But for a day, i'll revel in pompous intellectualism. i wonder if i can get anyone else to play along. fun, fun, fun. it feels like I need a british accent. I'll work on it.

[bga1]

the real problem is that you're extremist and you don't even see it. Your blind obedience to the far right strips anything you say about anything else of it's credibility. Your arguments at least have foundation which puts you ahead of another, but so narrowly based not so much so.

Just do yourself a favor and if any of your views sound like a right wing sound bite, spend a little more time digging deeper until you can restate it in another way.

Plus if you knew me you'd know just how funny what you said really is. But for a day, i'll revel in pompous intellectualism. i wonder if i can get anyone else to play along. fun, fun, fun. it feels like I need a british accent. I'll work on it.

In your eyes - I'm an extremist and in mine you are one as well. Get it?

I'm sure many of us would laugh if we actually actually knew the gopherholers we critique. I am certain I am as far off in my image of you, as you are in your view of me. If we were able to see each other's views in the context with how we actually live and operate I am certain we would cut each other a little more slack. That might not be as fun however. :)

[Stan]

In your eyes - I'm an extremist and in mine you are one as well. Get it?

I'm sure many of us would laugh if we actually actually knew the gopherholers we critique. I am certain I am as far off in my image of you, as you are in your view of me. If we were able to see each other's views in the context with how we actually live and operate I am certain we would cut each other a little more slack. That might not be as fun however. :)

This coming from the guy who said I wasn't a Republican because I disagreed with him. I am a Republican. I voted for the better candidate who happened to be a Dem for the first time in my life. I am moderate. You are extreme. All of that is fact.

[bga1]

Stan- you are extremely moderate. :)

The point is this: any time we hold a view firmly we are extreme versus someone. That doesn't mean we are right or we are wrong- it's just how we see it.

I see Obama's views as extreme. Yet others see my views as extreme. In a few years what is today seen as moderate may be viewed as extreme. Anyone who has a rudder is an extremist. All the rest are extremely confused.

[bigtenchamps1899]

a segment on 60 minutes concerning the first 100 days of office and you can chuck your shoes at Obama and Biden. Maybe that will make you feel better. Obama will hold office for 8 years and Congress will then reinact the "Third Term Law" that will overwhelmingly be approved by the House and Senate. Both you guys have turned this off topic board into a political vendetta that is quite frankly getting to be moronic.

by definition, it takes two opposing sides for a vendetta. why not say that they are being divisive, that epithet worked for the "unifying" democrats. there is much division, both on this board and in this country, but blaming republicans for being partisan completely ignores the divisive politicking of the democrats.

in the same way, claiming that G4L and BG are what's wrong with this board completely ignores the baiting, mockery and thick-headedness of the liberal partisans on this board.

[Gopher4Life]

Stan,

>>I voted for the better candidate who happened to be a Dem for the first time in my life.<<

Obama was better in terms of style and communication. I'll give you that much.

The real problem is that you were given only those two choices. I found both to be poor options and think it's ridiculous that Americans are forced to use their votes to elect one or the other.

[jamiche]

Jamiche-

Regarding peace- I am trying to remember who did 9-11? And did the the country demand action at the time?

Regarding prosperity- I think you should realize that the nation was going into a recession when Bush arrived in office. That's a matter of factual record.........we were going through the dot com fallout and the exodus of manufacturing to China if you recall. Bush had to allow the rebuilding of the economy by providing business incentives. He did this very successfully.

Regarding budget surpluses - you should realize that Clinton brought military budgets to an all time low as a percentage of GNP. This was something Bush had to pay dearly for once we were on a war footing with terrorism.

Regarding the messes Obama has inherited. Mnay of these were so badly exacerrbated by your friends in the Democratic party who so dearly wanted to loan money to people that could not afford it.

I don't know whether Obama himself is a true "socialist"- he may be. I do know that many of his policies are socialistic in nature and I think that is a factual statement.

Beej: It's very easy to do the point /counterpoint thing but the bottom line is that your Hero badly failed the boy scout test of always leaving the camp site in better condition than you found it. In fact, he failed it to a historic degree. Until you acknowledge that and acknowledge your silence during his eight years of ruinous governance, your critiques of Obama have no credibilty.

[bga1]

I guess if a group of boy scouts take a camp site and during their stay they are bombed, the standard for the condition of the campsite in the aftermath changes a bit - doesn't it?

Therefore your lack of ability to view the results of the aforementioned hero's work within the context of what he faced lends your analysis fully lacking in credibility. However, I am not mean enough to say you yourself have no credibility as I think it is still possible that you are a credible person who has erred (albeit often ). I do think you are extreme however. :)

[Dr.Don]

I have finally confirmed when an argument stops, and a new argument begins. Anything Beej and/or G4L says are/is the end of an argument, anything anyone else says later as a follow-up is the start of a new argument for beej and/or G4L. :drink:

[jamiche]

I guess if a group of boy scouts take a camp site and during their stay they are bombed, the standard for the condition of the campsite in the aftermath changes a bit - doesn't it?

Therefore your lack of ability to view the results of the aforementioned hero's work within the context of what he faced lends your analysis fully lacking in credibility. However, I am not mean enough to say you yourself have no credibility as I think it is still possible that you are a credible person who has erred (albeit often ). I do think you are extreme however. :)

Perhaps if you had a blatant warning five weeks in advance you would do something to protect the camp site.

[jamiche]

Don,

You're a true piece of work and you should take great pride in that.

jamiche,

Our young president is a deceitful, arrogant leftist. With idiots now controlling both sides of Congress, Americans won't recognize their country when he finishes his tinkering. Is that what you mean by namecalling?

G4: You still haven't answered my question re: who, besides Billy Graham and Ron Paul, you like and/or admire.

[bga1]

I have finally confirmed when an argument stops, and a new argument begins. Anything Beej and/or G4L says are/is the end of an argument, anything anyone else says later as a follow-up is the start of a new argument for beej and/or G4L. :drink:

.... and anything you say is considered irrelevant to any meaningful argument.

But, I'm certain you would be fun to hang with otherwise. Honestly Don- I enjoy your posts I consider you as comic relief. You and Ruppert Flywheel should get together, if you haven't already or if you aren't the same poster. I think you are similar vintage and think alike anyway.

[bga1]

Perhaps if you had a blatant warning five weeks in advance you would do something to protect the camp site.

Yeah - to a nation that was not at war and had routinely ignored chatter and even outright attacks for years that warning was about as blatant as hearing the 1:00 PM siren on Wednesday. The 9-11 commission agreed that no one could have known and that such warnings had come routinely for years. The end result of the commission report was the remark: (I paraphrase) "They were at war with us, but we were not at war with them." After 9-11 that changed to the cheers of America. Now the cheers have died and the war on terror has been renamed "overseas contingency operation". I'll say it for you: Ironic eh?

[Dr.Don]

Beej, first of all, a sincere and dedicated "THANK YOU"! you finally are starting to understand this old fart, when you stated:

"Honestly Don- I enjoy your posts I consider you as comic relief."


Beej, I thank you for the compliment re: comic relief. I have worked damn hard all my life to reach retirement finally, and nothing but humor is all I care about. I am still recovering from a heart attack I had 2 years ago, and I take nothing seriously anymore. Again, Beej, thank you for the compliment. Life is too darn short, and can be interrupted at any time by things beyond our control, so I would like to quote Alfed E. Neuman from MAD MAGAZINE: "What, me worry?". In addition, do not ever forget what the magic words of the late Pat Paulson...."We have nothing to fear, but fear itself... and the Boogey Man."

BTW, ruppert and Dr.Don are not the same poster with different names, so please do not go there, ok? Thanks again, and have a good day, my friend. :)

[jamiche]

Yeah - to a nation that was not at war and had routinely ignored chatter and even outright attacks for years that warning was about as blatant as hearing the 1:00 PM siren on Wednesday. The 9-11 commission agreed that no one could have known and that such warnings had come routinely for years. The end result of the commission report was the remark: (I paraphrase) "They were at war with us, but we were not at war with them." After 9-11 that changed to the cheers of America. Now the cheers have died and the war on terror has been renamed "overseas contingency operation". I'll say it for you: Ironic eh?

Bush made sure that the 9/11 commission would be ineffectual by withholding critical, damning information. Staff members would not appear unless they did not have to testify under oath. If either one of us was a new president who received a national security briefing headlined "Bin Laden Planning to Attack US" I think both of us, as responsible adults and stewards of the country, would take it damn seriously. Don't you?

I'm sure that you are ever vigilant about threats in the marketplace towards the company you own. How is this any different?

[bga1]

My guess Jammer is that it went like this:

Aide: Mr. President- bin Laden is about to attack the US- we are sure of it!

Bush: Don't worry about it- I'm fixin' to blow the towers myself- I need to git my pals at Haliburton some no-bid contracts. Now git back to bidness would ya! Oh and while we are at it make sure the guys pop a hole in the pentagon to make it look like some crazies did it. And don't let Rosie O'Donnell, or any of those left wingers hear any of this.

Regarding my own company: We have never made an error, no company threatens us ever, we nuke 'em. We always know what to do ahead of time. Always. :)

[bga1]

Beej, first of all, a sincere and dedicated "THANK YOU"! you finally are starting to understand this old fart, when you stated:

"Honestly Don- I enjoy your posts I consider you as comic relief."


Beej, I thank you for the compliment re: comic relief. I have worked damn hard all my life to reach retirement finally, and nothing but humor is all I care about. I am still recovering from a heart attack I had 2 years ago, and I take nothing seriously anymore. Again, Beej, thank you for the compliment. Life is too darn short, and can be interrupted at any time by things beyond our control, so I would like to quote Alfed E. Neuman from MAD MAGAZINE: "What, me worry?". In addition, do not ever forget what the magic words of the late Pat Paulson...."We have nothing to fear, but fear itself... and the Boogey Man."

BTW, ruppert and Dr.Don are not the same poster with different names, so please do not go there, ok? Thanks again, and have a good day, my friend. :)

You may recall when you first stared posting under this moniker that I sent you a PM stating I "liked your schtic". I was being honest. Good for you Don. Keep it light.

[Schnoodler]

This coming from the guy who said I wasn't a Republican because I disagreed with him. I am a Republican. I voted for the better candidate who happened to be a Dem for the first time in my life. I am moderate. You are extreme. All of that is fact.

Interestingly I've voted for a democratic prez only twice in my thirty years of voting. And i generally test out just left of center, very close to the middle. But I imagine that 80% of the world would look extreme to BGA.

[jamiche]

My guess Jammer is that it went like this:

Aide: Mr. President- bin Laden is about to attack the US- we are sure of it!

Bush: Don't worry about it- I'm fixin' the blow the towers myself- I need to git my pals at Haliburton some no-bid contracts. Now git back to bidness would ya! Oh and while we are at it make sure the guys pop a hole in the pentagon to make it look like some crazies did it. And don't let Rosie O'Donnell, or any of those left wingers hear any of this.

Regarding my own company: We have never made an error, no company threatens us ever, we nuke 'em. We always know what to do ahead of time. Always. :)

beej: Your sarcasm is razor sharp. Stop killing me.

My guess is that President Bush was uninterested.

[Dr.Don]

Beej....that was awhile back when you PM'd me about:

"You may recall when you first stared posting under this moniker that I sent you a PM stating I "liked your schtic". I was being honest. Good for you Don. Keep it light. "

Thanks for reminding me, and as a result, I always try. Unfortunately, not all take things that way. That is the problem with communicating on the net....no emotions, just words.

[Moonlight]

When Bush had to deal with 9/11 it was the worst thing that could have happened to our country as it gave him impunity - we all gave him a world of slack and he hung us with it.

Obama gets no slack from the right despite the fact that he is taking the helm in much worse conditions. And with their arrogant assumption of "emergency" power, the previous admin created one of the biggest disasters ever: a total lack of confidence in our gov't. and now our economy. In many ways, hypercriticism of Obama actions undermines our recovery. Now let's see...does anyone fit that description?

Despite all concerns on his supposed inexperience, he is emerging as an active president, a welcome and formidable force in the world, and I find it fascinating that G4L is convinced he is a lying no-good leftist.

[hyaluronic]

Jamiche -- Seriously, why try to blame Bush for 9/11? A group of people who are vehemently opposed to the United States wanted to carry out an attack and succeeded. Let's learn from our mistakes and leave it at that.

Moon -- That is a typical response for a President at war. Bush's leash was yanked back by the general public, particularly the left. The right is trying to do the same to Obama. It's dirty politics as usual.

[Dr.Don]

hyaluronic, your post was very interesting when you stated:

"Bush's leash was yanked back by the general public, particularly the left. The right is trying to do the same to Obama. It's dirty politics as usual."

In the 1960's, Nikita Khruschev, Premier of the USSR, threatened John F. Kennedy, President of the USA, with this: "We don't have to attack you to destroy you, you will destroy yourselves from within." What Premier Khruschev meant was, there will be so much in-fighting within yourselves that that is what will happen. Almost 50 years later, that is what is happening. Think about it, citizens of the USA. We are too busy fighting amongst and between us within.

[bga1]

When Bush had to deal with 9/11 it was the worst thing that could have happened to our country as it gave him impunity - we all gave him a world of slack and he hung us with it.

Obama gets no slack from the right despite the fact that he is taking the helm in much worse conditions. And with their arrogant assumption of "emergency" power, the previous admin created one of the biggest disasters ever: a total lack of confidence in our gov't. and now our economy. In many ways, hypercriticism of Obama actions undermines our recovery. Now let's see...does anyone fit that description?

Despite all concerns on his supposed inexperience, he is emerging as an active president, a welcome and formidable force in the world, and I find it fascinating that G4L is convinced he is a lying no-good leftist.

Moonlight - A smooth speaking guy with absolutely no resume for the kind of job he has is proposing major, major changes in American system that are far reaching and long lasting. Unlike Bush who had his character assassinated daily, Obama is being attacked and challenged on the substance of his policies. The public has been exceedingly kind to him, and in fact the level of fawning over the guy has been amazing.

He has been extremely active and the activity is extreme by American standards. Questioning these measures in a fair and honest way -with facts and opinions about his proposals- is not only right it's patriotic. These criticisms in no way hurt America. The type of criticism that hurts America is when people make claims that their own president is an idiot or that he is somehow conspiring to make war to satisfy an urge or make money for his friends. That's the kind of criticism that is not good willed, not patriotic and does hurt America.

As I have said many times, I think Obama is an incredibly bright person who is well intentioned. He thinks what he proposes will work- I believe that sincerely. I simply disagree with his ideology and direction and I will express it until I see diffferently.

[bga1]

Jamiche -- Seriously, why try to blame Bush for 9/11? A group of people who are vehemently opposed to the United States wanted to carry out an attack and succeeded. Let's learn from our mistakes and leave it at that.

Moon -- That is a typical response for a President at war. Bush's leash was yanked back by the general public, particularly the left. The right is trying to do the same to Obama. It's dirty politics as usual.


Hylauronic- that's a good down the middle view. However, it presumes moral equivalence on both sides. If you look at the spirit of the "Bush lied" or the "Bush is an idiot" crowd, it was not in the spirit of improving America. That was bad spirited criticism. Most of what we see regarding Obama is fair concern and discussion over policies that are a dramatic change from American history and should be examined closely. When you live in the gretest country in the history fo the world and someone takes charge and proposes to change it in a major way- people should ask questions.

[jamiche]

Moonlight - A smooth speaking guy with absolutely no resume for the kind of job he has is proposing major, major changes in American system that are far reaching and long lasting. Unlike Bush who had his character assassinated daily, Obama is being attacked and challenged on the substance of his policies. The public has been exceedingly kind to him, and in fact the level of fawning over the guy has been amazing.

He has been extremely active and the activity is extreme by American standards. Questioning these measures in a fair and honest way -with facts and opinions about his proposals- is not only right it's patriotic. These criticisms in no way hurt America. The type of criticism that hurts America is when people make claims that their own president is an idiot or that he is somehow conspiring to make war to satisfy an urge or make money for his friends. That's the kind of criticism that is not good willed, not patriotic and does hurt America.

As I have said many times, I think Obama is an incredibly bright person who is well intentioned. He thinks what he proposes will work- I believe that sincerely. I simply disagree with his ideology and direction and I will express it until I see diffferently.

The King of Irony dazzles us again. In the same paragraph you refer to Obama for the umpteenth time as a "smooth speaking guy" which we all know is code for con artist or liar and then claim that Obama's character is not being attacked. In the upside down world in which we live the inability to speak in complete sentences is regarded as a virtue while the ability to clearly articulate a thought is a vice.

[Go4]

The King of Irony dazzles us again. In the same paragraph you refer to Obama for the umpteenth time as a "smooth speaking guy" which we all know is code for con artist or liar and then claim that Obama's character is not being attacked. In the upside down world in which we live the inability to speak in complete sentences is regarded as a virtue while the ability to clearly articulate a thought is a vice.

jamiche, what beej is doing is applying passive aggressive techniques and it's widely known that people who use passive aggressive to make a point are either insecure about themselves, or not man enough to look someone in the eye to make said point. They hide behind sarcasm, passive aggressive comments and usually tend to think very highly of themselves. It's a pretty consistent group of traits, and beej is very consistent at using the technique.

[jamiche]

Jamiche -- Seriously, why try to blame Bush for 9/11? A group of people who are vehemently opposed to the United States wanted to carry out an attack and succeeded. Let's learn from our mistakes and leave it at that.

Moon -- That is a typical response for a President at war. Bush's leash was yanked back by the general public, particularly the left. The right is trying to do the same to Obama. It's dirty politics as usual.

Hy: I never understood why Bush got a free pass on 9/11. I think there was a lot of intimidation of the media in its aftermath. I'm not saying that Bush could have prevented 9/11, I'm saying he should have tried. He did nothing after the 8/6 briefing and, ironically, reaped the huge post 9/11 political benefits.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

Hey, let's not overstate Obama's speaking ability. Ever heard the guy stammer when the teleprompter shuts down? He's a very smooth reader when he's had ample tme to rehearse...and that alone positions him above his predecessor.

Moonie,

He IS a lying leftist, and America voted for him anyway.

[jamiche]

jamiche,

Hey, let's not overstate Obama's speaking ability. Ever heard the guy stammer when the teleprompter shuts down? He's a very smooth reader when he's had ample tme to rehearse...and that alone positions him above his predecessor.

Moonie,

He IS a lying leftist, and America voted for him anyway.

G4: Everybody is a liar in your world. Who are the people you admire?

[bga1]

jamiche, what beej is doing is applying passive aggressive techniques and it's widely known that people who use passive aggressive to make a point are either insecure about themselves, or not man enough to look someone in the eye to make said point. They hide behind sarcasm, passive aggressive comments and usually tend to think very highly of themselves. It's a pretty consistent group of traits, and beej is very consistent at using the technique.

Well- I guess that covers everyone here since this is an anonymous internet board.

Perhaps that makes me among the more secure on board since I work pretty hard at not calling names or making personal attacks. I don't know. Have you read the posts from people I reply to determine their level of passive aggessiveness or are you mainly concerned with mine-considering that I have a differing view from yours?

I would rate your post as fairly passive aggressive- I give it a 7 on the insecurity scale. But don't worry I think you will be all right.

[Dr.Don]

With all of the points of view addressed on this thread, I am very confused, so I went to the doctor, had my head x-rayed, and they didn't find anything.

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

Obama has been lying since before we knew him. And some of us don't even care.

[jamiche]

jamiche,

Obama has been lying since before we knew him. And some of us don't even care.

You've told us that at least 800 times.

Let me change my previously unanswered question. Are there five people in public life who don't make you angry? If so, who?

[Moonlight]

jamiche,

Obama has been lying since before we knew him. And some of us don't even care.

I think you're lying. And I don't even care.
Aren't you smarter than this? Aren't you a better American than this?

[Gopher4Life]

Moonie,

Do you deny that Obama has been deceitful (spin, half-truths, and outright lies) with America ever since he showed up on the big stage?

What sort of American buys the lies while watching the debt on our children's backs mushroom faster than ever before?

[Gopher4Life]

jamiche,

>>Who are the people you admire?<<

I hesitate to take your bait because that would just subject good people to potshots from this board's lefties.

I admire millions of red/white/blue, God-fearing, hard-working, taxpaying, legal citizens who take pride in their own personal responsibility, protect the Constitution from those who would re-interpret it, and don't look to big government for handouts or to solve each and every problem.

[tikited]

I admire millions of red/white/blue, God-fearing, hard-working, taxpaying, legal citizens who take pride in their own personal responsibility, protect the Constitution from those who would re-interpret it, and don't look to big government for handouts or to solve each and every problem.

Does the person have to be 100% God-fearing?

[Sour1729]

jamiche,

>>Who are the people you admire?<<

I hesitate to take your bait because that would just subject good people to potshots from this board's lefties.

I admire millions of red/white/blue, God-fearing, hard-working, taxpaying, legal citizens who take pride in their own personal responsibility, protect the Constitution from those who would re-interpret it, and don't look to big government for handouts or to solve each and every problem.

You mean like the part of the Constitution that states "Indians" are worth only as much as 3/5 of other "Free Persons?" Or the part that only uses the word "he" when discussing the president?

I'm pretty glad things like that have been "re-interpreted."

[jamiche]

jamiche,

>>Who are the people you admire?<<

I hesitate to take your bait because that would just subject good people to potshots from this board's lefties.

I admire millions of red/white/blue, God-fearing, hard-working, taxpaying, legal citizens who take pride in their own personal responsibility, protect the Constitution from those who would re-interpret it, and don't look to big government for handouts or to solve each and every problem.

Do you think these good people could handle the onslaught of us socialists?

I could be wrong but think the operative words in the first sentence of your second paragraph were "white" and "God-fearing".

[Gopher4Life]

tikited,

>>Does the person have to be 100% God-fearing?<<

It will certainly help in the end.

[tikited]

tikited,

>>Does the person have to be 100% God-fearing?<<

It will certainly help in the end.

What about now?

[Gopher4Life]

I was asked what sort of people I admire.

[tikited]

I was asked what sort of people I admire.

I know, I was just wondering if a person has to be god-fearing to be admired by you?

[Gopher4Life]

I don't have much reason to admire atheists and agnostics, do I? You're free to make different choices.

[bga1]

Actually I do admire atheists. They have made a clear choice. It's not a choice I wish they would make for their own sake, but I admire the clarity of it. What I don't admire is those who say they believe in God while rewriting His book at every turn in the name of self interest.

[Gopher4Life]

Oh-oh. Now you did it.

[monk10]

/drumroll

And for our next Act, we will be having pick and choose Christians complaining about pick and choose Christians. Some people might assume this is a dead horse, but I tell you there is more to beat on then you can imagine.

I think we made it through April without Christians bashing Christians. However here we go again. I will put on my Kevlar and you can attack me to make yourself feel better.

/covers eyes.

[tikited]

I don't have much reason to admire atheists and agnostics, do I?

Interesting. Belief over action?

[bga1]

Oh-oh. Now you did it.

Sorry, got bored for a minute there.

[Sour1729]

Sorry, got bored for a minute there.

How about agnostics?

[Dr.Don]

Beej: bga1
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,343



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Actually I do admire atheists. They have made a clear choice. It's not a choice I wish they would make for their own sake, but I admire the clarity of it. What I don't admire is those who say they believe in God while rewriting His book at every turn in the name of self interest.


Gopher4Life
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,738



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh-oh. Now you did it.

Finally, Beej and G4L can fight between themselves, and leave the rest of us out of it. Gotta Love It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gopher4Life]

tikited,

>>Belief over action?<<

Belief scores. Actions are a dime per dozen. Read your New testament.

[tikited]

tikited,

>>Belief over action?<<

Belief scores. Actions are a dime per dozen. Read your New testament.

I know we've been down this road before, but it's always fun.

Guy #1 is a total d-bag. Treats people badly, self-centered, etc.. Type of guy who stands in front of shorter people at concerts and doesn't even notice he did it. Guy #1 is also a God-fearing christian.

Guy #2 isn't connected to any religion. He doesn't really care about that kind of thing. He is a really nice guy, always trying to help others. He goes out of his way to make sure others are treated as he would like to be treated. No one can find a bad thing to say about him.

According to the scripture: Guy #1 goes to heaven and guy #2 doesn't. I get that. What I don't get is that, according to you, guy #1 is a better person simply because he believes in a certain theory while the other guy doesn't.

You make it sound as though what you do here on earth doesn't really matter as long as....

If you don't find major problems with that logic, then I don't know what to think..

[hyaluronic]

Here's a question: If atheists became the majority in the country, would agnostics come to the defense of theists?

[bga1]

I know we've been down this road before, but it's always fun.

Guy #1 is a total d-bag. Treats people badly, self-centered, etc.. Type of guy who stands in front of shorter people at concerts and doesn't even notice he did it. Guy #1 is also a God-fearing christian.

Guy #2 isn't connected to any religion. He doesn't really care about that kind of thing. He is a really nice guy, always trying to help others. He goes out of his way to make sure others are treated as he would like to be treated. No one can find a bad thing to say about him.

According to the scripture: Guy #1 goes to heaven and guy #2 doesn't. I get that. What I don't get is that, according to you, guy #1 is a better person simply because he believes in a certain theory while the other guy doesn't.

You make it sound as though what you do here on earth doesn't really matter as long as....

If you don't find major problems with that logic, then I don't know what to think..

Tikited- excellent question. The fact is that both Guy #1 and Guy # 2 have an issue with sin because, in fact, everybody does. It may be that Guy # 2 is by nature a better Guy. The key to the gospel is that Christ tells us that we are all imperfect yet we can all be saved from the consequence of our imperfection. He gives all of us a choice: Submit your work to the master you choose and receive your pay thusly. If you choose to work to the glory of Christ then you receive your "pay" (salvation) from Christ. If you choose not to believe then you receive your pay from the master you choose to serve and believe in. If that master is yourself- you are imperfect and you cannot save yourself nor will Christ.

So it's not the work product that saves you it's the master that saves you. Is it all faith and no works? Certainly not and the Bible states that faith without works is dead. So if Guy # 1 is an all around dirtbag who doesn't ever live what he says, it may just be that his heart is not where his mouth says it is. Christ- not us- can properly judge the true condition of the heart.

[jamiche]

Tikited- excellent question. The fact is that both Guy #1 and Guy # 2 have an issue with sin because, in fact, everybody does. It may be that Guy # 2 is by nature a better Guy. The key to the gospel is that Christ tells us that we are all imperfect yet we can all be saved from the consequence of our imperfection. He gives all of us a choice: Submit your work to the master you choose and receive your pay thusly. If you choose to work to the glory of Christ then you receive your "pay" (salvation) from Christ. If you choose not to believe then you receive your pay from the master you choose to serve and believe in. If that master is yourself- you are imperfect and you cannot save yourself nor will Christ.

So it's not the work product that saves you it's the master that saves you. Is it all faith and no works? Certainly not and the Bible states that faith without works is dead. So if Guy # 1 is an all around dirtbag who doesn't ever live what he says, it may just be that his heart is not where his mouth says it is. Christ- not us- can properly judge the true condition of the heart.

If Christ is the only one who can judge (and there are several billion people around the world who would disagree with you), why do you judge everything that Obama does? Why, in fact, judge anyone about anything?

[bga1]

The heart Jamiche, the heart. Christ judges the condition of the heart we judge actions but not in an eternal sense. Several billion do disagree with me, but you also know that the world is a fallen place. In the end someone will be right and someone will be wrong about who Christ is and was. I like my chances of being right about him regardless of who may disagree

We should constantly be judging actions and attitudes as a matter of protecting ourselves and others from abuse. If you see a man across the street with a gun sticking out of his pocket you should judge that he is dangerous and get out of there. If a man is often telling you lies or steals money from you, you should judge that it is better not to associate with him. We should not take leave of our senses and discernment in order to be politically correct. Know the truth and you will be able to discern. Our judgement is not to hell or eternity but rather for our own protection and the good of others.

This is exactly the quandry we find ourselves in with today's "moral equivalence". We find ourselves increasingly unable to judge good from bad based on the newly blurred lines between the two types of behavior. This is the sure onset to the downfall of any society.

[Gopher4Life]

tikited,

Yours is a fifth grade Sunday School topic. Those who truly believe should want to act accordingly, but works/deeds/actions without belief won't accomplish the goal.

[tikited]

tikited,

Yours is a fifth grade Sunday School topic. Those who truly believe should want to act accordingly, but works/deeds/actions without belief won't accomplish the goal.

I knew you would answer with that (acting accordingly):rolleyes:. That would be nice wouldn't it....if all believers acted accordingly...they don't always though, do they? I'd rather act like a good person should rather than simply believing and not proving it through my actions. The question wasn't about the end-goal, it was about how/what you specifically judge a person by. You have made it clear that the belief system out-weighes actions by the individual. I find that wacky.

I like Bga's reaction much better.

[Gopher4Life]

You seem to be so unsatisfied with Scripture that you've replaced it with your own "feel good" interpretations. Christians do that at great risk.

Ephesians 2:8 - "By grace through faith are you saved, not by works lest men should boast."

I don't know how to make it any more clear. Good works are not enough.

[tikited]

You seem to be so unsatisfied with Scripture that you've replaced it with your own "feel good" interpretations. Christians do that at great risk.

Ephesians 2:8 - "By grace through faith are you saved, not by works lest men should boast."

I don't know how to make it any more clear. Good works are not enough.

Alright, you refuse to answer or reply to the topic at hand. Instead you retreat to the safety of the heaven or hell reply. I never brought that up, but you are free to avoid the topic if you want. I was refering to you--not the scripture. I'm not sure I can make that any more clear. Man, I try to have a conversation with someone and this is what I get.:(