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minibeaver
03-30-2009, 01:45 PM
I was able to catch most of their games this past weekend. They were fun to watch, it was fast paced and you could see the effort being put forth on the ice by the players.

Besides the occasional ralley, I have not seen the Gophs play like that (consistently) in years.

Early NHL departures are a common excuse, but that can't explain away the effort or fast pace. It's hard to put a finger on it but if I had to it would be somewhere between lack of leadership (by players and coaches) and player personality. We have the talent, even with all of the departures.

MrGopher
03-30-2009, 02:04 PM
What Bemidji State has is a chip on their (collective) shoulder. UofM hockey desperately needs this. The sense of entitlement that the players have is very discouraging. Our players are good guys, but their on-ice effort is lacking something that Bemidji State definitely has shown the past couple of weeks.

Lack of leadership is a problem, yes, but it all boils down to selfishness. The U has become a gateway into the NHL for a lot of these players, and nothing more. Sure we have talent, but the players see the U of M is actually an all-star team made of all the best Minnesota high school players. All star teams are never as good as a tightly-knit team who truly wants to win way more than they expect to win. The players leave early because this isnt a real team for them, it is a stepping stone to the NHL.

By the way, Im very much pulling for Bemidji State in the frozen four. I think all Minnesotans should. I also very much support their joining the WCHA, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Ski U Mah Gopher
03-30-2009, 04:53 PM
NCAA Tournament Victories:

Bemidji St 2
St. Cloud St 0

minibeaver
03-30-2009, 05:02 PM
By the way, Im very much pulling for Bemidji State in the frozen four. I think all Minnesotans should. I also very much support their joining the WCHA, hopefully sooner rather than later.[/QUOTE]


I couldn't agree more. They have obviously proven that they are worthy of playing with the best. To the statement of the U being the gateway to the NHL and selfishness: how do you fix it? Does the Don start recruiting less highly touted players? A few big names amidst a support cast? Its gotten to the point that when I hear of a big named talent coming to the U its hard to get excited anymore. I love gopher hockey and I want to see it get back to where it was a decade ago.

Omega015
03-31-2009, 07:55 AM
By the way, Im very much pulling for Bemidji State in the frozen four. I think all Minnesotans should. I also very much support their joining the WCHA, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I can't support them, because even though they are in the frozen four, they had no business being in that field of 16. They start the season with a 1 in 4 chance of making the tournament because their joke of a conference has an automatic bid. Then they play 2 good games and suddenly they have a shot at a national title?

Let's see how many NCAA tourney games they win if they join the WCHA.

MrGopher
03-31-2009, 08:48 AM
I can't support them, because even though they are in the frozen four, they had no business being in that field of 16. They start the season with a 1 in 4 chance of making the tournament because their joke of a conference has an automatic bid. Then they play 2 good games and suddenly they have a shot at a national title?

Let's see how many NCAA tourney games they win if they join the WCHA.


I disagree. It's not their fault that only four teams remain in the CHA. And it's not like they haven't been petitioning to join the WCHA ever since the CHA began dissolving.

Now, you are saying that Bemidji State should have played the entire season fully aware that they had absolutely no shot at winning a national championship, simply because of which conference they are in?

This is exactly why everyone thinks that Div 1A football is so messed up....there are teams who simply cannot be champions, all based on their conference.

They have proven that they belong in the tournament by blowing the number one overall seed Notre Dame and a decent Cornell team out of the water. They belong there.

You say that Bemidji State doesn't belong despite having two good games when it really matters. Well then Michigan, Denver, and Notre Dame should get another chance despite having a bad game when it really mattered, right? Wrong.

Omega015
03-31-2009, 12:17 PM
I disagree. It's not their fault that only four teams remain in the CHA. And it's not like they haven't been petitioning to join the WCHA ever since the CHA began dissolving.

Now, you are saying that Bemidji State should have played the entire season fully aware that they had absolutely no shot at winning a national championship, simply because of which conference they are in?

This is exactly why everyone thinks that Div 1A football is so messed up....there are teams who simply cannot be champions, all based on their conference.

They have proven that they belong in the tournament by blowing the number one overall seed Notre Dame and a decent Cornell team out of the water. They belong there.

You say that Bemidji State doesn't belong despite having two good games when it really matters. Well then Michigan, Denver, and Notre Dame should get another chance despite having a bad game when it really mattered, right? Wrong.

Anyone can win 2 games in a row... there are upsets in single elimination tournaments all the time. Since the hockey tournament is only 16 teams, I want the best teams in the tournament. And while it isn't Bemidji's fault that their conference is dying, that doesn't change the fact that the conference doesn't deserve a bid. If Bemidji wants in, they should go at-large.

I find the remaining field to be a joke. Only 1 of those 4 teams can claim to be the best team in the country if they win (BU). The rest of the teams are a nice story, but when 3 of the 4 teams left are "cinderella" you don't really have cinderella anymore... you just have a bunch of mediocre teams that got hot at the right time.

Even if Bemidji wins the national title there won't be a single person who could honestly say they were the best team (or even a top 25 team). They would be the worst national champion ever.

ditt1605
03-31-2009, 03:48 PM
I see your argument with the CHA and why it's silly to have a 4 team conference get an auto bid, but that's the way it's set up, so I guess I'm having issues with your other statements.

It's one thing to make the tournement, but it's another to advance in it. Bemidji beat the #2 seed Notre Dame and then a Cornell team that finshed 2nd in their 12 team conference and beat St Cloud and split with UND during the regular season. I would say that Bemidji does deserve to be in the Frozen Four even if they got in via auto bid from a terrible conference. If they were such a bad team, they would have been bounced right away.

The remaining 3 teams, according to the pairwise, ranked 1 (BU), 9 (vermont) and 13 (Miami). According to the RPI those teams were ranked 1, 7 and 12.

The case to be made for this being a decent Frozen Four field would be found in the conference standings: BU was 1st in Hockey East, Vermont tied for 3rd with UNH in Hockey East and Miami tied for 2nd with Michigan in the CCHA. I would assume that everyone agrees that the best 3 conferences would be WCHA, Hockey East and the CCHA.

Because of that, I would say that the rest of this years Frozen Four reflects one great team and two good teams that didn't have that great of an overall record (reflected in RPI and Pairwise).

Therefore, I don't really consider any of those two Cinderellas; Vermont and Miami are good (not great) teams that got hot at the right time rather than mediocre ones.

Bemidji certainly isn't the best team in NCAA D-I hockey on paper, but the game isn't played on paper. If they win it all, I can say without a doubt, that they deserve it. Same with BU or any of the other teams. As gopher fans know all too well, it's not how you start out but how you finish...

maroonfive
03-31-2009, 05:57 PM
I would however be embarrassed if I were St. Cloud and Mankato. You have been Division One how long?

Go Gophers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheDinkytowner
03-31-2009, 06:43 PM
I'm happy for BSU, but I fear for the future of college hockey. Adding a 5th school from Minnesota with zero name recognition (and likely WCHA bottom feeder) is the opposite of what college hockey needs right now to improve its national profile and maybe get more than one game on ESPN per year. I'm looking at you Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Marquette, Colorado, Illinois.

MrGopher
03-31-2009, 07:56 PM
I'm happy for BSU, but I fear for the future of college hockey. Adding a 5th school from Minnesota with zero name recognition (and likely WCHA bottom feeder) is the opposite of what college hockey needs right now to improve its national profile and maybe get more than one game on ESPN per year. I'm looking at you Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Marquette, Colorado, Illinois.

I do support some of the schools you mentioned adopting hockey programs if they feel it necessary, but.....

Does college hockey need a national profile? It is not a national sport (not this nation anyway). I think it will forever be a niche sport with a cult following in the markets where it has been popular. College hockey needs exposure, yes, but not necessarily national ESPN exposure. The problem with this year's frozen four is not any of the teams, it is the location....WashDC?!? Give me Boston, Detroit, Denver, Twin Cities, NYC, Chicago even... but DC? In 2012 it will be in Tampa, FL!!!! That is the mistake. Just like the NHL in some of those southern cities. Big waste of money, time, and effort.

Don't get me started on how I feel about ESPN's coverage of sports. Very often they disgust me with what they show.

Omega015
04-01-2009, 12:48 PM
The problem with this year's frozen four is not any of the teams, it is the location....WashDC?!? Give me Boston, Detroit, Denver, Twin Cities, NYC, Chicago even... but DC? In 2012 it will be in Tampa, FL!!!! That is the mistake. Just like the NHL in some of those southern cities. Big waste of money, time, and effort.

Don't get me started on how I feel about ESPN's coverage of sports. Very often they disgust me with what they show.


The problem is not the location of the frozen four... the frozen four usually sells out regardless of where it's being played. The problem is that you have a 16 team tournament with 3 of the bottom 8 teams in the finals. Who wants to travel to see that? We are in the final four and it's 1 vs 9 vs 13 vs 16???? Uggh. There is no tradition or history to balance the story of newcomers. The Frozen 4 is the NIT this year.

Jike Spingleton
04-01-2009, 12:53 PM
I do support some of the schools you mentioned adopting hockey programs if they feel it necessary, but.....

Does college hockey need a national profile? It is not a national sport (not this nation anyway). I think it will forever be a niche sport with a cult following in the markets where it has been popular. College hockey needs exposure, yes, but not necessarily national ESPN exposure. The problem with this year's frozen four is not any of the teams, it is the location....WashDC?!? Give me Boston, Detroit, Denver, Twin Cities, NYC, Chicago even... but DC? In 2012 it will be in Tampa, FL!!!! That is the mistake. Just like the NHL in some of those southern cities. Big waste of money, time, and effort.

Don't get me started on how I feel about ESPN's coverage of sports. Very often they disgust me with what they show.


Agreed. The Frozen Four was in Anaheim about 10 years ago, and that didn't have any effect on the sport's growth.

College hockey needs to realize that it is a regional, niche sport. College baseball is the same way. Only a few places in the country really care about college baseball, and I happen to live in one of them. Fans of both sports are very passionate, but overall limited in number.

I've been hoping for Penn State to pick up varsity hockey for some time now - they would do quite well, IMO.

As for Bemidji....meh. I don't really want to see them in the WCHA, and I don't care about their story so much because the entire Frozen Four field is pretty weak this year. And I'm never surprised when a hockey team comes out of nowhere to make a run. We see it in the NHL all the time - no other sport sees the #8 seed beat the #1 seed somewhat regularly. In hockey, it's all about who gets hot at the right time.