Women's program is headed for the bottom

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Rickman55

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With the performance I saw tonight, and Borton's less than stellar recruiting this program is headed for the bottom of the Big Ten. I give her two more years..........
 

I am not going to rip Borton coming off a 2nd round NCAA year, but I was wondering if this year would not be the prime time to go after SDSU's coach all other things being equal? If we were in the market that is.
 

Borton just signed a contract extension last year I believe. I think she has 6 years left or so. Going after Aaron Johnston would be a good idea, but I don't see it happening in this economy with that many years left on her contract.

We will all be singing a different song if Tayler signs with the Gophers.
 

Well we are getting....

some nice size coming in next year, with the 6-7 from Finlayson and the 6-4 from Princeton, but Hill is still a real long shot.
 

Actually, I was kind of encouraged by the first round win. They have a nice recruiting class coming in, and have a lot of pretty good young players who got good experience this year.

I hate to say it, but Emily Fox had a down year, and that created a problem for the coaches. There were many times that the Gophers were actually better without her on the floor, but as a senior "go-to" player, they felt compelled to play her, in hopes that she'd break out. But, her foot and leg injuries just never let her play the way they hoped. It also meant she didn't practice all the time and it looked to me like she had conditioning issues at times, too.

I think they'll be better next year whether they get Hill or not. Obviously, Hill puts them to the next level if she chooses the Gophers.
 


Rickman55 said:
With the performance I saw tonight, and Borton's less than stellar recruiting this program is headed for the bottom of the Big Ten. I give her two more years..........
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It was the exact performance as last year against Texas in the first round and this year they went FARTHER in the tournament. (I hope Tubby can do the same next year or I give him two more years.........)
 

Borton's #10 seeded LadyGophers upset #7 seeded Notre Dame on ND's home court on Sunday, and I did not see any congrats. Then the #10 seeded LadyGophers got beat badly by #2 seeded A&M, and you want her neck. Doesn't make sense, except too many of the posters are overpaid do-gooders, call themselves experts, who have nothing else to do but bad mouth things. Sheeeeeeeesh!

Go Gophers!
 

Rickman55 said:
With the performance I saw tonight, and Borton's less than stellar recruiting this program is headed for the bottom of the Big Ten. I give her two more years..........
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Are you the same guy I met last year, who shortly after New England lost a Super Bowl after going into it undefeated, told me adamantly that Bill Belichick should be fired because he didn't have his team ready to play?
 

So the gopher girls have the same seed as the boys, actually win their first round game, have only two seniors on the team, and get beat against a very athletic strong A&M team and Borton should be fired and Tubby is god? The girls also finished 5th in a big 10 that still has a few teams going in the sweet 16, while the boys have only michigan state. I know we were spoiled with Whalen, but honestly I thought the team played well this year.
 



"while the boys have only michigan state."

Did Purdue leave the Big 10?
 


Pam and Tubby = Apples and oranges.

One took over a team that was pretty good and has gone backwards. One has taken over a team near the bottom and has made progress.

Big difference.
 

Not Borton's Fault...

but honestly I thought the team played well this year
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They played inconsistent.

They played GREAT in beating tOSU and MSU on the road. Nobody does that. Then they end up losing to Illinois at home, very few did that, while dropping 4 of there last 5 games.

They beat Notre Dame in South Bend, an incredible upset and follow that up with a 32 turn over 31 point loss to Texas A&M. 32 turnovers!!

That is the definition of inconsistency.

I attribute the inconsistency to youth and a "down" year by Fox. Not Borton. She has as much passion and drive as any coach on the Big Ten. Fox was the star. She had to play. She just didn't play up to her ability all the time. When she did we won. When she didn't we lost. It's that simple.
 



This idea that Borton has 'back-slid' is a bit ridiculous. She took over a team that had Lindsey Whalen on it. What she has done since is maintain a pretty good program that doesn't have Lindsey Whalen on it. It's not like Oldfield had built some long-standing winner here in 1 whopping season. Have we forgotten that this team won like 10 conference games in the entire decade of the 90's?
 

It's not like Oldfield had built some long-standing winner here in 1 whopping season. Have we forgotten that this team won like 10 conference games in the entire decade of the 90's?
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Excellent point howeda7. Oldfeild (Freese) rode Whalen to a great job in Maryland. Without Whalen she would probably still be here having the same kind of success Borton is having which isn't at all bad.

Can you imagine if Tubby came in here last year and went to the Final Four his very first season? I bet we would all have far higher expectaions for our Gophers than we do now.

Pam did it and she did it with, sad to say, Cheryl Littlejohn's players not Brenda Oldfield's players. That right there proves the woman can coach.
 

We sound a lot like the Kentucky idiots right now, do we not realize this is the whole reason they kicked Tubby out in the first place? Whalen was a talent that could have carried many teams on her back. This team wasn't far from being at the top of the big 10. Beating Ohio St at their place, sweeping MSU. Just because they haven't been back to the final four we are hanging her out to dry.
 

Rickman55: Read all of the posts on this thread you started. I rest my case.
 

My Point

No team at this level should have 32 turnovers.......no excuse for that I don't care who you are playing. Compare the recruits we are bringing in next year to what the other Big Ten teams are bringing in. Borton isn't getting the job done in this area and that will be the downfall of this program.
 


Have any of you ever heard Pam talk to a crowd? She spoke at a Gopher Caravan function with Tubby and did a great job. She is impressive and seems to work hard at her job. This years team beat MSU twice which beat Duke last night. I had two daughters play BB and if there is a difference between boys and girls it is definitely a lack of consistency. Pam I believe is working not only getting more size but also more athletiscm (sp?). Her team (especially the guards) were a turnover machine this year. A great point guard would have made this team a whole lot better.
 

We shouldn't have let the hot coach that preceded Borton leave to Maryland
 

The Gophers had no (or little) control of Frese going to Maryland. She thought she could recruit better in the DC Area and loves Maryland.
 

Rickman55 said:
No team at this level should have 32 turnovers.......no excuse for that I don't care who you are playing. Compare the recruits we are bringing in next year to what the other Big Ten teams are bringing in. Borton isn't getting the job done in this area and that will be the downfall of this program.
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I'll bet somewhere over on the Tennessee boards your counterpart is calling foor Pat Summitt's head.
 

Rickman55 said:
No team at this level should have 32 turnovers.......no excuse for that I don't care who you are playing. Compare the recruits we are bringing in next year to what the other Big Ten teams are bringing in. Borton isn't getting the job done in this area and that will be the downfall of this program.
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Have you seen a comparison or set of conference rankings? Other than knowing we're bringing in some size next year, I've seen nothing to indicate that class is good, bad, or indifferent. Would be very interested to see how our recruits are compared to the rest of the conference.

Also, out of curiosity... does anyone think Pam is doing a good or a great job recruiting? I might be missing something, but it seems like her recruiting effectiveness is considered average at best by the posts I'm reading here.
 

MilesTones said:
Have you seen a comparison or set of conference rankings? Other than knowing we're bringing in some size next year, I've seen nothing to indicate that class is good, bad, or indifferent. Would be very interested to see how our recruits are compared to the rest of the conference.

Also, out of curiosity... does anyone think Pam is doing a good or a great job recruiting? I might be missing something, but it seems like her recruiting effectiveness is considered average at best by the posts I'm reading here.
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I'd consider her recruiting average.


These are the latest rankings I could find from HoopGurlz (from Nov. 20, IU wasn't in Top 60)

3. Illinois
13. Penn State
18. Purdue
28. Northwestern
33. Iowa
35. Michigan
39. Ohio State
41. Minnesota
53. Michigan State
57. Wisconsin
 

How is the program going in the wrong direction they won a game in the NCAA tourney.
 

Is PB a lesbian or not? If so there is a recruiting issue.

Rickman55 said:
With the performance I saw tonight, and Borton's less than stellar recruiting this program is headed for the bottom of the Big Ten. I give her two more years..........
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In this PC era no one will be honest , but there may be a recruiting issue here.

I have heard a few stories and what would the media be saying if Lucia or Brewster were playing that side of the bench????????

Most in Minnesota outside the core city are not on board with the Berkeley standards. Travel to the hinterlands outside 43rd and Sheridan or Soliah's Hiawatha Methodist Church if you think I am an extremist.
 

Sure think oak st. That's why her recruits for next year come from Princeton, Hinckley and a conservative Christian school in Kansas City. In the following years there will be recruits from those liberal hotbeds Parkers Prairie and Bemidji.
 

It's obvious people are completely forgetting just how bad this program was in the 90s. Lindsey Whalen changed the perception, yes, but once she left, did anyone really think we were still going to be rolling to multiple Final Fours or something? Getting to the second round of the tourney is actually a decent season. They were sometimes wildly inconsistent, I'll give you that, but this team is pretty young, so to think they're on some backward slide is just not accurate in the least. Fox wasn't herself at times this season and I think the team can overcome losing her to still be pretty good. I would think they'll at the very least be more consistent. I will say I am concerned about the lack of quick guards, and I think Borton will need to address that in the future.

Brenda Frese (Oldfield) was here for one season. She caught lightening in a bottle with Lindsey Whalen and with her ability to coach was able to have sucess. But her lasting impact on the program was minimal considering she had only one single recruiting class here. It's not as if she was here for four years and really took this program to another level in recruiting and all that. Pam Borton, I think, has done a pretty good job at keeping this program at a decent level that, in all honesty, I didn't think it would maintain. Whalen and McCarville carried this program to heights it hadn't seen, and I just didn't think the talent base was here to keep them at a consistent tournament level (and obviously Brenda Frese didn't either). And I just don't think it's easy to do national recruiting in women's college basketball, especially in Minnesota. If she can keep this team in the NCAAs, make an occasional Sweet 16 type run, I don't think we can expect much more than that in all reality.
 

My 2 cents

Don't think anyone's suggested it, but I think it's ludicrous at this point to suggest Borton get fired. She's earned some rope with 6 NCAAs in 7 years. That said, my impression of the Gopher women's hoops program is that it's become stale, much like the football program became under Mason. I don't see anything with my eyes that indicates it's getting any better or any worse. And you now what they say about standing still. ...
 

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