Pro's, Con's, and reality

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march madness

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Reality:
We are an athletic team that loves the open court but doesnt get to run in the half court loving big ten against top competition. Should we recruit stronger players who are more skilled, tough, and less athletic to compliment our athletes? Role players like McCabe, Brusewitz, Griffey would do wonders on this team.

Mich St. guards are pretty talented. Andre is a great off guard, 0 ass, 3 to. He was driving to the whole in the NIT run and now he only tries his step back. Deadly when on, and a 1 trick pony when off. Tubby needs to utilize Andre and Trevor, they are the most skilled players to score.

Pro's: EE is playing better. He even hit a long jumper for the second straight game.
Trevor "rebounded" with a great rebounding game.
We "cut" our TO's to 12. We outrebounded a good rebounding team.

Con's: Good defensive teams have figured us out:front Trevor, over play the Hollins due on their outside shots. Leave the 2 forwards open on the wing daring them to shoot. When Mn drives get ready to steal it or take a charge as they are below average ball handling team and they do not have any midrange game on drives.
On offense, feed the post, when Mn doubles, make the wide open 3.

What to do now? The current team isn't changing. I can be mad about the lack of recruiting of bhandling, no true pg, lack of shooters at forward, taking athletes over skill, etc. But what can they do this year?
I would bring either Rodney or Coleman off the bench for scoring. Start EE, I used to say Welch, but he has a tough time with quick guards. Instruct Dre that he must drive or its pine time. Get Trevor the ball on the block, EE will help there. Emphasize setting physical picks and making decisive cuts. No helping off 3pt shooters. We have the best shot blocking team in the big ten, let them do their thing. Making a tough shot over a defender in good position is much harder than a guard making a wide open 3.

Recruiting emphasis... ball handling, shooting, passing. Big man with muscle to replace Trevor.
 

march madness said:
Reality:
We are an athletic team that loves the open court but doesnt get to run in the half court loving big ten against top competition. Should we recruit stronger players who are more skilled, tough, and less athletic to compliment our athletes? Role players like McCabe, Brusewitz, Griffey would do wonders on this team.

Mich St. guards are pretty talented. Andre is a great off guard, 0 ass, 3 to. He was driving to the whole in the NIT run and now he only tries his step back. Deadly when on, and a 1 trick pony when off. Tubby needs to utilize Andre and Trevor, they are the most skilled players to score.

Pro's: EE is playing better. He even hit a long jumper for the second straight game.
Trevor "rebounded" with a great rebounding game.
We "cut" our TO's to 12. We outrebounded a good rebounding team.

Con's: Good defensive teams have figured us out:front Trevor, over play the Hollins due on their outside shots. Leave the 2 forwards open on the wing daring them to shoot. When Mn drives get ready to steal it or take a charge as they are below average ball handling team and they do not have any midrange game on drives.
On offense, feed the post, when Mn doubles, make the wide open 3.

What to do now? The current team isn't changing. I can be mad about the lack of recruiting of bhandling, no true pg, lack of shooters at forward, taking athletes over skill, etc. But what can they do this year?
I would bring either Rodney or Coleman off the bench for scoring. Start EE, I used to say Welch, but he has a tough time with quick guards. Instruct Dre that he must drive or its pine time. Get Trevor the ball on the block, EE will help there. Emphasize setting physical picks and making decisive cuts. No helping off 3pt shooters. We have the best shot blocking team in the big ten, let them do their thing. Making a tough shot over a defender in good position is much harder than a guard making a wide open 3.

Recruiting emphasis... ball handling, shooting, passing. Big man with muscle to replace Trevor.
Click to expand...

Bold: Especially in conference. Conference coaches have a lot more info and experience playing against each other.

Also the question I asked last nite; does Tubby's 'system' fit the Big Ten?
 

Just get in, and maybe the Gophers won't play so tight

station19 said:
Bold: Especially in conference. Conference coaches have a lot more info and experience playing against each other?
Click to expand...

That's probably the main reason this season I just want to fast forward to the NCAA Tournament as fast as we can (presumably with the Gophers in attendance). It's a little cliche to say, I know, but I think it will be a huge weight off the Gophers' shoulders just to play someone from another conference. The Gophers have proven they're not an elite Big Ten team like Indiana or Michigan, but is that really such a bad thing? Most teams aren't.

We all know one of Tubby's biggest shortcomings has been beating elite Big Ten teams, but the Gophers wouldn't have to play any of those until at least the Elite 8. And if we got that far, I don't think anyone would be too picky about the opponent. One thing Tubby hasn't had trouble doing is beating quality opponents on a neutral floor, granted we're 0-2 in the NCAA tourney. I just have a feeling that unlike their last 2 appearances, if the Gophers can just get in they'll loosen up a bit and let 'er rip. They've certainly played a schedule that should have them prepared.
 

SelectionSunday said:
That's probably the main reason this season I just want to fast forward to the NCAA Tournament as fast as we can (presumably with the Gophers in attendance). It's a little cliche to say, I know, but I think it will be a huge weight off the Gophers' shoulders just to play someone from another conference. The Gophers have proven they're not an elite Big Ten team like Indiana or Michigan, but is that really such a bad thing? Most teams aren't.

We all know one of Tubby's biggest shortcomings has been beating elite Big Ten teams, but the Gophers wouldn't have to play any of those until at least the Elite 8. And if we got that far, I don't think anyone would be too picky about the opponent. One thing Tubby hasn't had trouble doing is beating quality opponents on a neutral floor, granted we're 0-2 in the NCAA tourney. I just have a feeling that unlike their last 2 appearances, if the Gophers can just get in they'll loosen up a bit and let 'er rip. They've certainly played a schedule that should have them prepared.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind Tubby's conference record has never been above 500, so it's more than just the elite Big Ten teams he has had trouble beating.
 

Yep, I'm very aware of that, and that is disappointing.

I'm also very aware that under Tubby the Gophers have made a good accounting of themselves in difficult neutral-site games, as well as the Big Ten Tournament (7-5 record, semifinal appearance in 1st year, 1 finals appearance, only one 1-&-done). That may not matter to a lot of people, but it does to me.

Certainly I hope one of these seasons we combine the two (B1G regular-season success with BTT success). It's proven to be a difficult hump for this program.
 


We are going to struggle in the Big 10 as our team is just not (use the term loosely) built to handle the body to body fighting that happens in the big 10. We need space, up tempo to be succesfull, and we need an athletic advantage.

I hope we can hang onto a decent mid to upper half seed into the NCAA tournament, and if we draw a bunch of A10, Pac 12, SEC, Big 12 schools we could still make some noise like we did in the NIT.

Lets just face the facts, we don't have the ability/strength/athletes to play in the big 10 with the system that Tubby is trying to run. His "system" would work if we had the right players for it, but we don't. We are a cross between his effort to have a true high low, and a true running type team, which leaves us in this awkward situation where we really have no identity at all.

We can still finish above .500 in conference, win a couple on neutral courts in the big 10 tournament and make some noise in the NCAA!
 

both austin and andre are wearing down physically... and it's starting to show with poor shooting.

GHer's were ripping austin for poor shooting last night and for bad zone D by Andre..

but these guys have to chase baseline runners thru multiple back picks in the half court all night..
then they are expected to run the O, hit 3's, and drive into the lane (and probably get knocked down).

especially this last stretch of opponents.. wisky, iowa, MSU... all teams that run the same grinding 1/2 court O.. very physically draining to defend if you are a guard.

to me, tubby is requiring too much of these guys... either switch on D, or don't run the O thru the guards so much. you can't physically do both in the b1G
 

march madness said:
Reality:
We are an athletic team that loves the open court but doesnt get to run in the half court loving big ten against top competition. Should we recruit stronger players who are more skilled, tough, and less athletic to compliment our athletes? Role players like McCabe, Brusewitz, Griffey would do wonders on this team.

Mich St. guards are pretty talented. Andre is a great off guard, 0 ass, 3 to. He was driving to the whole in the NIT run and now he only tries his step back. Deadly when on, and a 1 trick pony when off. Tubby needs to utilize Andre and Trevor, they are the most skilled players to score.

Pro's: EE is playing better. He even hit a long jumper for the second straight game.
Trevor "rebounded" with a great rebounding game.
We "cut" our TO's to 12. We outrebounded a good rebounding team.

Con's: Good defensive teams have figured us out:front Trevor, over play the Hollins due on their outside shots. Leave the 2 forwards open on the wing daring them to shoot. When Mn drives get ready to steal it or take a charge as they are below average ball handling team and they do not have any midrange game on drives.
On offense, feed the post, when Mn doubles, make the wide open 3.

What to do now? The current team isn't changing. I can be mad about the lack of recruiting of bhandling, no true pg, lack of shooters at forward, taking athletes over skill, etc. But what can they do this year?
I would bring either Rodney or Coleman off the bench for scoring. Start EE, I used to say Welch, but he has a tough time with quick guards. Instruct Dre that he must drive or its pine time. Get Trevor the ball on the block, EE will help there. Emphasize setting physical picks and making decisive cuts. No helping off 3pt shooters. We have the best shot blocking team in the big ten, let them do their thing. Making a tough shot over a defender in good position is much harder than a guard making a wide open 3.

Recruiting emphasis... ball handling, shooting, passing. Big man with muscle to replace Trevor.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree with your take on Andre. He really came into his own at the end of last season when he took the ball to the basket. Sag off him? Then he'll (often) hit the outside shot. I really thought he was going to be the key this year. But as we continued to miss three-pointers in our recent losses, I can't help but get frustrated that Andre has stopped penetrating. He has hardly been inside the free throw line during the conference season. He's the one guy who can really open things up for others.
 

station19 said:
Keep in mind Tubby's conference record has never been above 500, so it's more than just the elite Big Ten teams he has had trouble beating.
Click to expand...

If you don't count Big Ten tournament games.
 



I'm worried that we won't win another road game. We just melt away giving up 3's or turning it over. Once a while ago I thought at Iowa and Purdue should be wins - now I even worry about Nebraska 3ing us to death...
 


I will make my early NCAA prediction on the Goph's. 13th seed. First round lose. I'll try to keep from chirping about it that much. Already had them at the round of 32, but now they don't look that strong.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Yep, I'm very aware of that, and that is disappointing.

I'm also very aware that under Tubby the Gophers have made a good accounting of themselves in difficult neutral-site games, as well as the Big Ten Tournament (7-5 record, semifinal appearance in 1st year, 1 finals appearance, only one 1-&-done). That may not matter to a lot of people, but it does to me.

Certainly I hope one of these seasons we combine the two (B1G regular-season success with BTT success). It's proven to be a difficult hump for this program.
Click to expand...

SS- I am firmly convinced that Tubby's teams play tight and scared to make mistakes during the regular season and the offense doesn't help. As we all know in life- when you are scared to screw up- you screw up. Then they get to the post season and they seem to play with a nothing to lose attitude. Win or go home and if you go home the coach won't be harping on you about errors. If you win-it's all good. That mentality goes well with this team -especially considering their skill set (athleticism in the up tempo game).
 



Dean S said:
I will make my early NCAA prediction on the Goph's. 13th seed. First round lose. I'll try to keep from chirping about it that much. Already had them at the round of 32, but now they don't look that strong.
Click to expand...

Considering you can count on one hand the # of times a BCS team has been a 13-seed, I'm going to predict you're wrong. They generally put the play-in games on 12-line. Are using the NCAA-approved definitition of '1st round' and predicting a 'lose' in the play-in round?
 

Boy, you really don't get sarcasm do ya! NIT here we come. Wink. Nod. Thumb.
 

Dean S said:
Boy, you really don't get sarcasm do ya! NIT here we come. Wink. Nod. Thumb.
Click to expand...

Excellent sarcasm. It really should have stood out from the other very-not sarcastic optimists on this board. My bad.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Yep, I'm very aware of that, and that is disappointing.

I'm also very aware that under Tubby the Gophers have made a good accounting of themselves in difficult neutral-site games, as well as the Big Ten Tournament (7-5 record, semifinal appearance in 1st year, 1 finals appearance, only one 1-&-done). That may not matter to a lot of people, but it does to me.

Certainly I hope one of these seasons we combine the two (B1G regular-season success with BTT success). It's proven to be a difficult hump for this program.
Click to expand...

I actually was talking about this with a co worker who is one of those bandwagon.. Gopher basketball is awesome when we are ranked #8 and now we kind of suck and its not interesting kind of guys. That said, even he agreed that the current frustration, while valid, is in part due to the meat grinder we have been through of late and once we get to the NCAA tourney and play non BT teams, we should be just fine for at least a game and then have to beat a team like memphis, etc to get to the Sweet 16.. easily achieveable. Once in S16, it would depend on our seed if we play a Indy/Michigan type team. Bottom line, assuming we can hold court at home, with exception of Indy, and manage to get to 10-8...we should be fine. Play loose and fast in the tourney like we were before the Michigan game.

Time will tell. Luckily, I still have fun watching the Gophers.. albeit a few curse words at times..but still have fun, so the rest of the season still beats a stick in the eye...
 

MN needs to take advantage this season b/c I don't see them being an NCAA team in the foreseeable future after this season. Coach Tubby Smith has his most talented healthy/eligible roster in 6 seasons and they are .500 in the B1G.

Recruiting for 2013 and beyond doesn't look too good but the B1G will lose some really good players after this season.

If Tyus Jones wanted to be a Gopher he would have committed by now. Rashad Vaughn and the kid from De La Salle are more attainable but those ships are slowly sailing away.
 

Dean S said:
Boy, you really don't get sarcasm do ya! NIT here we come. Wink. Nod. Thumb.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I was going to respond in a similar fashion, I didn't catch the sarcasm either, as there are fans who probably genuinely see us being a double digit seed and one of the last 4 in.

B1GSportsGuy said:
MN needs to take advantage this season b/c I don't see them being an NCAA team in the foreseeable future after this season. Coach Tubby Smith has his most talented healthy/eligible roster in 6 seasons and they are .500 in the B1G.

Recruiting for 2013 and beyond doesn't look too good but the B1G will lose some really good players after this season.

If Tyus Jones wanted to be a Gopher he would have committed by now. Rashad Vaughn and the kid from De La Salle are more attainable but those ships are slowly sailing away.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see us making the tournament next season, we've got a real nice group of guards in Hollins, Hollins, and Coleman all returning next year, and all of them will be upperclassmen. Eliason has been improving of late, the 4 is still a bit of a mystery, might just be a competition between Oto, Foster, and Buggs. I guess I wouldn't say I expect us to be as good as this year, but making the tourney is a very real, and perhaps likely, possibility next season.

Recruiting looks pretty good to me for the next couple of years as well. I think the 2013 class will end up being another solid one, and 2014 has the potential to be great if we can get Vaughn and/or Travis and maybe Collier or Perkins as well.

I don't really think Tyus is going to come here either, but I don't think that it's sound logic to say that because he hasn't committed already, he won't come here. I also don't see how Vaughn and Travis are slowly slipping away from us.

Then of course in 2015, I think we have an excellent shot with both Illikainen and Ellenson. I think it was Bleed who even said that Illikainen was standing up and cheering at the Iowa game, participating in the Rouser and rooting for the Gophers, unlike most recruits who sit in stony silence and don't show emotion.
 


Unless Tubby finds a way to get Trevor more shots, big men like Travis, Illikanen, and Ellenson may not want to come here.
 

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