Gophers/Spartans Post Game Thread - analysis, frustration, suggestions & more

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Since the board gets a bit cranky after loses, we'd like to compile all post-game posts tonight in one thread. Thanks.
 

Turnovers has to be the center of frustration. Haven't seen a box score, so I don't know what the volume was, but (to borrow a quote from one of the columns that BleedGopher posted) some of those were so sloppy/lazy that they should have counted for two. I bet the number of turnovers was lower than I felt like because it always seems higher when they are that bad.
 

Gary and MSU made shots.

Hollins and Hollins didn't.

Pretty simple. Austin Hollins last 3 road games have been beyond bad. If he plays normal, we might have won them all.

So should I be optimistic that he will get better, and the team will be fine? Or should I be concerned that we are running out of time for that to happen?

Also, Andre Hollins played weak. I don't know if Tubby is holding him back or if he is just lacking confidence right now, but he has got to be more aggressive and have the mentality that he is the main man.

I was pleased with the effort from everyone else tonight, except for Welch, who for the third time this season, gave up a solo fast break with a middle school turnover.
 

I am still baffled that tubby would throw in 5 bench players at once, I love the guy but this is Mich St. Still a lot of hope left in the season. Go Gophs!
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Turnovers has to be the center of frustration. Haven't seen a box score, so I don't know what the volume was, but (to borrow a quote from one of the columns that BleedGopher posted) some of those were so sloppy/lazy that they should have counted for two. I bet the number of turnovers was lower than I felt like because it always seems higher when they are that bad.
Click to expand...

12 turnovers- not horrid but MSU only had 5 so that's a big advantage for them. Worse though was the shooting of the three starting guards 11-34. Ouch. Over the last several games the shooting has gotten worse primarily because the shots have been tougher- the offense is not producing open shots.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Turnovers has to be the center of frustration. Haven't seen a box score, so I don't know what the volume was, but (to borrow a quote from one of the columns that BleedGopher posted) some of those were so sloppy/lazy that they should have counted for two. I bet the number of turnovers was lower than I felt like because it always seems higher when they are that bad.
Click to expand...

I think I saw 12 for us and 5 for them but points off of turnovers had to be more one-sided. Throwing the ball out of bounds is better than giving it away in the open court and giving up a layup off of the turnover.

I can't believe in year 6 of Tubby we are at such a talent deficit.

another point- I think the Big Ten as a whole is over-rated. Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State are pretty good and Michigan State is tough and smart and finds a way to win but watching Baylor and Oklahoma State makes me feel like the Big Ten is over-rated.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Turnovers has to be the center of frustration. Haven't seen a box score, so I don't know what the volume was, but (to borrow a quote from one of the columns that BleedGopher posted) some of those were so sloppy/lazy that they should have counted for two. I bet the number of turnovers was lower than I felt like because it always seems higher when they are that bad.
Click to expand...

We had 12 turnovers tonight.

I was pleased with the effort from everyone else tonight, except for Welch, who for the third time this season, gave up a solo fast break with a middle school turnover.
Click to expand...

I think that play was just as much on Rodney who didn't even try and come to the ball but that's me.

Our offense is so frustrating at times. Our big guys are hanging out at the 3 point line way too much. We need to do something to get the ball down on the block more often, especially to Mbakwe. So much can happen when you get the ball down low. Look at how that helped MSU tonight.
 


WilliamsArenaGuy said:
Gary and MSU made shots.

Hollins and Hollins didn't.

Pretty simple. Austin Hollins last 3 road games have been beyond bad. If he plays normal, we might have won them all.

So should I be optimistic that he will get better, and the team will be fine? Or should I be concerned that we are running out of time for that to happen?

Also, Andre Hollins played weak. I don't know if Tubby is holding him back or if he is just lacking confidence right now, but he has got to be more aggressive and have the mentality that he is the main man.

I was pleased with the effort from everyone else tonight, except for Welch, who for the third time this season, gave up a solo fast break with a middle school turnover.
Click to expand...

Andre really looks as if he is playing not to make mistakes now. I think the coach is in his head. He has to drive some to open up the court and he isn't even trying to do it lately.
 



Rodney what is up with Rodney? So athletic, but just isn't into the game anymore.
 

bga1 said:
12 turnovers- not horrid but MSU only had 5 so that's a big advantage for them. Worse though was the shooting of the three starting guards 11-34. Ouch. Over the last several games the shooting has gotten worse primarily because the shots have been tougher- the offense is not producing open shots.
Click to expand...

I agree that 12 turnovers is not horrid, but the kind of turnovers they were were terrible. It is one thing to turnover the basketball when you try a difficult pass to a guy inside, and the ball gets deflective, but if it would have gotten through, you would have had an easy dunk. I can live with that kind of turnover. It is when we toss a lazy pass around the wing on the outside, the thing gets picked off for an easy bucket the other way, and the only thing that would have been created had we completed the pass is that we would have somebody else dribbling on the outside while the offense created nothing that I get upset.
 

10-34 for our starting guards was the story of the game. I also never want to see that awful 2-3 zone again either. That little run was the difference in the game.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I agree that 12 turnovers is not horrid, but the kind of turnovers they were were terrible. It is one thing to turnover the basketball when you try a difficult pass to a guy inside, and the ball gets deflective, but if it would have gotten through, you would have had an easy dunk. I can live with that kind of turnover. It is when we toss a lazy pass around the wing on the outside, the thing gets picked off for an easy bucket the other way, and the only thing that would have been created had we completed the pass is that we would have somebody else dribbling on the outside while the offense created nothing that I get upset.
Click to expand...

Well said. Make turnovers by attacking- not by passing on the perimeter.
 



Parski1 said:
Rodney what is up with Rodney? So athletic, but just isn't into the game anymore.
Click to expand...

Rodney is not going to look good in 50 point games. We need to dictate a more up tempo game to get the players we have to play their best. We have open court players and we are standing around playing bore ball.
 

Dre doesn't drive because his handle isn't tight and he is rarely quick enough to turn corner. As the defensive intensity picks up , his poor point guard skills are on full display.
 

andre/austin face tough D against the 3 because they don't take the ball to the rim...
or at least take their guy off the dribble.
so the D just guards the 3 against them.

in fact, coleman and Rodney are also weak at taking the ball off the dribble..
no one has taught them to lean into the defender and then pull-up.

i'd run dribble-drive drills all day long if i were tubbly..
 

I think if I was the Coach of the GopherHole Gophers, we would go undefeated because we would score every possession and stop our opponents on every possession. We have the talent, ya all just need me to coach ya. Me and Tinkerbell would bring Magic to The BARN!!!
 

Both teams shot FTs horribly.

Gophers outrebounded the Spartans on both ends.

Spartans had 5 turnovers to the Gophers' 12, and they killed us from downtown. I'm not sure how a team as athletic as the Gophers can defend the perimeter so poorly.
 

bga1 said:
Rodney is not going to look good in 50 point games. We need to dictate a more up tempo game to get the players we have to play their best. We have open court players and we are standing around playing bore ball.
Click to expand...

+1
when we pulled it out after appling went down and we had a 5 on 4, i had to laugh.
 


jumpstop said:
Dre doesn't drive because his handle isn't tight and he is rarely quick enough to turn corner. As the defensive intensity picks up , his poor point guard skills are on full display.
Click to expand...

true... but off a high screen he should be able to get somewhere near the lane..
instead, he 'pops' back out behind the 3 point line.. and resets the weave.
 

jumpstop said:
Dre doesn't drive because his handle isn't tight and he is rarely quick enough to turn corner. As the defensive intensity picks up , his poor point guard skills are on full display.
Click to expand...
His defense is bad. He always helps off his man for no reason resulting in giving up threes. The talk of him going pro earlier this season while stupid at the time, is looking dumbier all the time. Austin seems to have trouble finishing and handling. On a couple drives he looked so off balance and weak going to the hoop and luckly was bailed out by the refs. The team as a whole just can't handle the ball. Why Tubby couldn't see this coming is puzzling to me. He must have felt these guys would improve as ballhandlers. I said it before the season. Why instead of two forwards didn't he get another guard in here? A guy that could defend the three a little and handle the ball.
 

You need to have a half-court game to compete in the Big Ten.
 

At half I said we can be in this game if we don't give up 3 pointers - and like most of our games we did --- Do we lead America in giving up 3's??? Trevor was defending the 2 and we still had to double and given up open 3's. Do we have any chance at winning a road game??? i agree with one post that Dre needs to be more agressive and become the scorer again!
 


I would guess most are not that upset by losing in East Lansing...even a Big Ten Title contender could lose there to the team they have this year. I would guess most are frustrated that the same issues keep popping up game after game (and year after year) and they never seem to be addressed. At some point, we can't be the team whose half court sets look inept, who turns the ball over in maddening ways, and who tends to give up great looks from 3 defensively.
 

bga1 said:
Rodney is not going to look good in 50 point games. We need to dictate a more up tempo game to get the players we have to play their best. We have open court players and we are standing around playing bore ball.
Click to expand...

Note the lack of a full-court press implemented in this game. You want up-tempo energy? You don't get it from this Gophers team playing a half-court game. Unleash the athleticism.
 

andy said:
Both teams shot FTs horribly.

Gophers outrebounded the Spartans on both ends.

Spartans had 5 turnovers to the Gophers' 12, and they killed us from downtown. I'm not sure how a team as athletic as the Gophers can defend the perimeter so poorly.
Click to expand...

Answer: bad positioning, court awareness, communication, and conceptual understanding of basketball defense in the half-court set.
 

Only at the Gopherhole would Gopher fans go on and on and on all week about how horrible we are, how horrible our coach is, and then go ON THE ROAD, to play the #11 ranked team in the nation, coached by the famous Tom Izzo, who's taken his teams to SIX FFs in the 21st Century, and expect us to win?!

It boggles my mind.


If any of you idiots would just go back, to earlier in the season, when we were at our peak, ranked #8 in the nation, thinking we could maybe pull off a win vs Michigan at home. EVEN THEN, the majority of GHers considered the game @MSU to be a probable loss.

Then we go on a 4 game losing streak, we go into a major funk, and barely beat Iowa at home, but STILL, GHers act like we should have won this game?!


If not for the injuries MSU suffered, there wasn't a single GHer who truly believed we should win this game. Not saying no one believed it couldn't be won, but under NORMAL circumstances, playing on THE ROAD vs the #11 ranked MSU Spartans, is a LOSS, 95% of the time. No matter who you are, Duke, Minnesota, NCSU, UK, Indiana St, etc..
 

This team goes as Austin Hollins goes. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn tonight. Same against NW and Wiscy. Dre is at least a little more consistent. Austin is a junior and we need him to step up on a regular basis.
 

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