Recruiting a "stud" PF

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thiagoc

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The season the gophers are having is making me very excited and I believe it is making a lot of people feel the same all over the country. Including some recruits.
Although I do not think his recruiting methods are the worst there is. I don't understand why Tubby does not offer scholarship to bigger name players.
When you look at the top players at ESPN most of them have offers from Kentucky, Duke, Arizona among others and these schools have offers to many top players in the same position.
We are all saying that next year we are going to need a "stud" PF in our team and I was looking at the names still available, according to ESPN. Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, Jermaine Lawrence.
I am not saying they would come here for sure if there was an offer but if we need a big PF and there are some available, why don't they have an offer from Minnesota yet?
 

How do you know he hasn't? The process begins very early for those players, and a level of interest is gauged. Just because Rival's doesn't have an offer check marked from Minnesota doesn't mean that we didn't try. Offers are very precious, and if teams offered everybody they wouldn't mean as much. It's important to offer realistic targets so that you can tell them that "your our top target", etc. I think I read somewhere that Vaughn has 15 or so offers. Do you really think that only 15 teams would have him play for them?

FWIW I think Alex Foster will be a very good forward for us next year.
 


We've already got Alex Foster coming in & are still in play witgh Gavin Shilling. It's my understanding that Shilling is the best uncommitted PF out there which is why he's picking up such good offers lately. Me, I'd like a Juco. Someone ready to step in & play from day 1. We're that 1 player away from being a Sweet-16 caliber team next year imo. You'd think it'd be an attractive offer? Come play with a stud PG, play 30 mins a game immediately, have the chance to excel like Trevor & Rodney & win a lot of games. We're mid-season right now so I don't expect Tubby's got much time for recruiting, but I hope some Juco PF's are watching our success & will be available in the spring.
 



Neither is Rodney. How did that work out?

If this season has taught us anything, versatility is much more important that any protypical position players.
 






I only have the information that I gathered from espn and rivals recruiting pages.
 

Buggs isn't going to be the starting PF, Oto is. Buggs didn't even play PF in High School & he weighs less than 200lbs. I like Oto but think it'd be wise to try to upgrade the position if possible. I can see I'm not going to win this one, so I'll give it a rest & we'll revisit it come next season.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
We've already got Alex Foster coming in & are still in play witgh Gavin Shilling. It's my understanding that Shilling is the best uncommitted PF out there which is why he's picking up such good offers lately. Me, I'd like a Juco. Someone ready to step in & play from day 1. We're that 1 player away from being a Sweet-16 caliber team next year imo. You'd think it'd be an attractive offer? Come play with a stud PG, play 30 mins a game immediately, have the chance to excel like Trevor & Rodney & win a lot of games. We're mid-season right now so I don't expect Tubby's got much time for recruiting, but I hope some Juco PF's are watching our success & will be available in the spring.
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The names that I have on the original post are all PF that have not chosen a team yet. They do not have an offer form us.
With so much success and the opportunity to get lots of PT next year I believe we are very attractive.
 




thiagoc said:
The names that I have on the original post are all PF that have not chosen a team yet. They do not have an offer form us.
With so much success and the opportunity to get lots of PT next year I believe we are very attractive.
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I think you're underestimating the "process" of recruiting ... its more than a phone call and a "did ya see us on ESPN last night?"....
 

Each recruitment has its own individual story, but compared to many other "big name coaches" Tubby doesn't get as involved with as many high profile kids as others.

BTW, Aaron Gordon at #7 or #6 might be underrated. Super, super high on him including as a pro.
 

thiagoc said:
The names that I have on the original post are all PF that have not chosen a team yet. They do not have an offer form us.
With so much success and the opportunity to get lots of PT next year I believe we are very attractive.
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They've all trimmed down their lists though & it's generally acknowledged that it's too late to get in on those guys. When Tom Izzo & Mich St are going after Gavin Schilling instead of wasting their time on the guys you listed it's telling I think.
 

Alex Foster isn't anywhere near the term stud. And Oto will CERTAINLY not be starting next year.

That being said, 3 options for PF will be Gavin Schilling, Charles Buggs, and Kevin Thomas (a JUCO considering us and was once committed to Texas).
 

At this point, Oto is probably the favorite to start the season at PF, but he won't finish there. I'd feel much better if he'd step it up. That said, I hope/expect us to use one of the remaining scholarships on a PF.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Because that's how long it took Tubby to play him at PF. Don't you think he would have made this type of impact sooner if he had played PF right away?
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I don't. He has always had crazy athleticism and has always been a decent defender, but he had no jumpshot and rarely did more than stand, take a few dribbles, and pass, his fresh-soph year. Maybe it would've sped up his development (so maybe I do agree with you depending on what you mean by "sooner"), but he was pretty limited on offense when he arrived... Just my opinion, though.
 



This is what I posted on the Gavin Schilling thread where the stud PF convo originally started.

Gavin is the best Big man Available who is outside the top100, and the few who are top 100 have narrowed down their lists so teams will likely not be able to jump on them at this point, so all the teams are jumping on Gavin after striking out with other recruits they were interested in, Hoping since the gophers have been on him for awhile and his friends Ellis and Foster already committed here that he picks us over them, but obviously he is keeping his options open if he is letting teams jump on him so late. Gophers Did go after top100 PF but lost out to all of them, but it is crazy to thin that the can just offer one of those top100 PF's now and be in the mix. Those kids have already narrowed down their lists, and as mentioned earlier, there is a reason why Duke and Michigan State have gone after Gavin and not a better PF at this point after striking out with others.
 

JDGopher said:
I don't. He has always had crazy athleticism and has always been a decent defender, but he had no jumpshot and rarely did more than stand, take a few dribbles, and pass, his fresh-soph year. Maybe it would've sped up his development (so maybe I do agree with you depending on what you mean by "sooner"), but he was pretty limited on offense when he arrived... Just my opinion, though.
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First of all, you don't need to be a good jump shooter to make an impact at PF. Second, the reason he stood around and passed is likely because he wasn't comfortable/confident enough to play from the perimeter. His skill set wasn't suited for it and he didn't have that much experience there. If he would have played PF right away his transition would have probably been a little smoother and quicker since that position fit his skill set more and it's what he played in high school. Not saying he would have been averaging double digits right away, just that he would have probably been more productive his first two seasons had he started there. I'm surprised some people disagree with that.
 

Rodney was no where close to being ready to play PF when he first got here, that is why he played SF. Tubby didn't play him not because he was a freshman,but it was because he wasn't ready yet. Tubby put his best team on the court, it has nothing to do what year they are in college. Look at our Guards right now, all younger than the guys that back them up. Rodney was very skinny when he first got here, and did not have the body to play PF in B1G, which is why he played SF when he got here, and when you are a SF you need to be able to have jump shot. Tubby puts in the players that give him the best shot at winning, and I don't have a problem with that.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
They've all trimmed down their lists though & it's generally acknowledged that it's too late to get in on those guys. When Tom Izzo & Mich St are going after Gavin Schilling instead of wasting their time on the guys you listed it's telling I think.
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I can agree with this concept.
 

I've heard some mention of the idea of bringing in a JUCO recruit? Well, not all JUCO recruits come in with only 2 years left of eligibility, but most do. So might not a JUCO then end up graduating the same time as our large Sophmore class? After the 2014-15 season, we will lose 5 players, maybe 6 or 7 if we get Tyus or Vaughn and they go pro after 1 year? A Juco coming in next year with 2 years of eligibility would bring that number up to 6-8.
Now unless we know the high school graduating class of 2015 is absolutely stacked, even having 5 graduating at the same time is NOT GOOD, much less 6-8.

No, the ONLY time, in my opinion, that its good to bring in JUCOs, is the year AFTER a class of 4 or more leave.
The best thing a coach can do is bring balance and consistency to a program. If the NBA didn't rip players away from the best teams, teams like UNC, Duke, Kentucky, etc., would always be in the Top Ten. Those coaches lose 2-3 players every year, sometimes 4, at staggered positions, and brought in recruits to replace them 2 years earlier. Every other year you recruit a star big man, a Center/PF, every other year a star gaurd, and so on. The hope being that the starting lineup is filled with Srs and Jrs and the bench with Sophs and Fresh. Teams like Butler and other Mid-Major teams that do well in the NCAA, do this, and can because the NBA doesn't interrupt the flow and the pattern. Sure, there are always glitches, injuries or players not living up to the hype, etc.. But that is the ideal. That is what coaches look for.

Jucos can help to balance out imbalances that occur because of losing players to transfer or the NBA or whatever. But they should NEVER be brought in when they make the imbalance worse.

I'm sure Tubby is aware of this dynamic. Some fans are not.
 

Two things, first: I have only ever watched video and never seen him live but Tyus doesn't strike me as one of the 'man child' prodigies that some of the #1s have been in the past. No knock on him, but i could easily see him playing two years of college ball while taking a moment to grow physically, some.

second: People like to say 'Rodney was really skinny when he came here..' Well, who ever really knows for sure, but according to the roster, Buggs already weighed as much as Rodney (who is listed at 6'7" 200) currently does, the moment he walked onto campus. He'd already gained 5 lbs by the date of his October interview with Nadine and i'd expect him to start the season next year at about 210.
 

WhoFellDownTheGopherHole? said:
Two things, first: I have only ever watched video and never seen him live but Tyus doesn't strike me as one of the 'man child' prodigies that some of the #1s have been in the past. No knock on him, but i could easily see him playing two years of college ball while taking a moment to grow physically, some.

second: People like to say 'Rodney was really skinny when he came here..' Well, who ever really knows for sure, but according to the roster, Buggs already weighed as much as Rodney (who is listed at 6'7" 200) currently does, the moment he walked onto campus. He'd already gained 5 lbs by the date of his October interview with Nadine and i'd expect him to start the season next year at about 210.
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Tyus, while not even close to a man child, isn't skinny nor weak by any means. Also, there's isn't too much physical development to be done on his side in terms of structure. His game wouldn't need him to be a physical specimen anyways. His game is all based on IQ, creativity, unselfishness, fast breaks, and a little bit of scoring too.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
First of all, you don't need to be a good jump shooter to make an impact at PF. Second, the reason he stood around and passed is likely because he wasn't comfortable/confident enough to play from the perimeter. His skill set wasn't suited for it and he didn't have that much experience there. If he would have played PF right away his transition would have probably been a little smoother and quicker since that position fit his skill set more and it's what he played in high school. Not saying he would have been averaging double digits right away, just that he would have probably been more productive his first two seasons had he started there. I'm surprised some people disagree with that.
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He would have certainly been more effective at PF. I agree with that. But he still wouldn't have been a very effective player, a B10 level player, for quite a while. You're definitely right, you don't need a jump shot to be a PF. But if you aren't big, you'll struggle to score... he's barely big enough now to play downlow with consistency and I don't think that would've changed.

I agree; his transition would've been smoother. But I still think it would've been pretty rough since he was not able to attack in the halfcourt much, if at all, for his first years. If you aren't attacking and you can't really shoot, you would struggle. By and large, though, I think we're basically saying the same thing...
 

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