People often forget

balds

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that Tubby has had this thing so close all along.

When we played Xavier three years ago in the NCAA Tournament, we had Mbakwe, White and Nolen in street clothes on the sidelines. Think about that.

The following year we lost Joseph, Cobbs and Nolen for almost the entire year.

The following year we were about to be a 1 loss team (Dayton would have still beat us) before Mbakwe went down, then eventually Sampson. (Sampson jokes aside,Iverson was gone & adjusting to massive personal schemes mid-season isn't easy)

Not to mention Paul Carter.
 

Yes, people do too often forget about these things. Most of those things couldn't have been prevented, as this season is showing, with lots of teams losing players to injuries this season. We averaged 2-3 injured players each season.
 

that Tubby has had this thing so close all along.

When we played Xavier three years ago in the NCAA Tournament, we had Mbakwe, White and Nolen in street clothes on the sidelines. Think about that.

The following year we lost Joseph, Cobbs and Nolen for almost the entire year.

The following year we were about to be a 1 loss team (Dayton would have still beat us) before Mbakwe went down, then eventually Sampson. (Sampson jokes aside,Iverson was gone & adjusting to massive personal schemes mid-season isn't easy)

Not to mention Paul Carter.

Excuses for poor performance.
 

Excuses for poor performance.

So hypothetically, I'm going to assume you work a sales job and In a freak accident driving in a company buss your 5 best sales people all lose their arms and legs and can't work anymore.

You can't hire any new sales people and you can't sell anything yourself and the 5 guys you have left have some potential at selling, but you just hired them a week ago and they don't even know all of the details of the company or your strategies yet.

Should your boss fire you when your group can't sell as much anymore?
 

So hypothetically, I'm going to assume you work a sales job and In a freak accident driving in a company buss your 5 best sales people all lose their arms and legs and can't work anymore.

You can't hire any new sales people and you can't sell anything yourself and the 5 guys you have left have some potential at selling, but you just hired them a week ago and they don't even know all of the details of the company or your strategies yet.

Should your boss fire you when your group can't sell as much anymore?

Uh Donna, please stop making excuses at every turn.
 


that Tubby has had this thing so close all along.

How can you measure how close things were? Those teams would have had a better chance to get onto the NCAA bubble without the injuries & issues, but they weren't heading for incredible seasons like they are this year.
 

I completely agree. The Tubby haters make me mad, especially considering how snake bitten he has been in recruiting. Maybe this is finally the year the chips fall in the right place, it sure looks like it.
 

I completely agree. The Tubby haters make me mad, especially considering how snake bitten he has been in recruiting. Maybe this is finally the year the chips fall in the right place, it sure looks like it.

How has Tubby been snake bitten in recruiting?
 

How can you measure how close things were? Those teams would have had a better chance to get onto the NCAA bubble without the injuries & issues, but they weren't heading for incredible seasons like they are this year.

Impossible to say. I think that a team with Mbakwe and White in the front court and Nolen and Hoffarber in the backcourt could have been special. How would that team that was 15-3 before Nolen broke his foot have finished the season?
 



This "just excuses" thing is silly. Losing starting players makes it a little harder to win. You would really dispute that?

The point is not to pretend previous years went differently than they did. The point is to assess the capabilities of the coaching staff, and you've got to take injuries and bailing out on your teammates into the assessment.
 

I've been watching sports for decades, and one thing I've noticed is that healthy teams do well, and teams dealing with injuries, struggle.
It is that simple.

I don't care if someone calls it making excuses or not. That person is more often than not, and UNaccomplished person criticizing others from the safety of their comfy home.

Prove to me that you are an accomplished person, and maybe I'll consider your opinion, otherwise I'm going to go with the facts I can verify, and those facts are that you are an unknown nobody, and Tubby Smith is a Natl Title winning coach.

Some Minnesota fans are DELUDED in thinking that recruiting people to come and play for Minnesota should be an easy task.

It IS NOT.

We are successful at hockey and Wrestling, because we keep MINNESOTA kids home and hockey also because it is a cold weather sport, or at least historically was.
We had our most successful season in women's bb, with a team made up almost entirely of Minnesota girls. Our Women's VB team built itself up with Minnesota girls, until it got good enough it could recruit outside of Mn. Same with Wr and Hk, we can now, AFTER success, recruit outside of Mn, but even in Hk we are limited in who we can get to come here. East coach talent won't come to play in Minnesota.
As for wrestling, ALL the best wrestling goes on in the north or in a state not know for much at all, other than cfb and wr, Oklahoma. If the SEC took Wrestling seriously, Minnesota's ability to be in the Top Ten all the time, would be tough to maintain.

We simply can not recruit anyone to come here to play Baseball or Golf or Track and we only do well in those sports when our Minnesota athletes have great seasons. There are some exceptions to that. The Golf team got some decent foreigners to help them out, but I'm speaking IN GENERAL.

I was in the Army for several years, stationed in Europe, and it was during cutbacks, so we didn't do much. We sat around arguing about sports and other trivial things, ALOT, and NO ONE, from any other part of the country, at that time, had ANY respect for Minnesota. Much of the country considers Minnesota to be the Frozen Tundra, the land of Ice Fishing and hockey. I also lived in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Maryland, and Washington. East Coast, SEC country, Big 12 country and the West Coast. People from around the country, DO NOT want to move to Minnesota. They don't have wonderful impressions of Minnesota, some of them don't think of Minnesota at all, its like we don't even exist. They know of us, because their NFL or MLB team plays a team called the Minnesota Vikings or the Minnesota Twins, but playing those teams, only informs those people that a place called Minnesota exists.

And now, with SEC domination of football, its even worse, because we are apart of an ancient conference that used to be good, back when there were only 15 teams playing, or 40 teams, or only 3. THAT is the impression people have of Minnesota. It's NOT A GOOD ONE.

Honestly, Basketball is our best hope. And Tubby was our only and best hope when we hired him. And injuries have hampered his ability to do much in a very good and strong, from top to bottom Big Ten.

Our football chances will improve, if Tubby and the basketball team can deliver.

But seriously Minnesota Coach haters, and Presidents of the Lets Fire all our coaches that can't win Titles within 3 years club, GO OUT INTO THE WORLD and ask West Coast people, East Coast people, southerners, and you will find out what people think of Minnesota. I've lived in every section of the US and I've found out first hand what people think of Minnesota.

The two sports that would change the nations perception of us, football and basketball, we've SUCKED ROYALLY at, for 45 years, far more often than not.

Companies based in Minnesota have a VERY HARD time getting people to come to Minnesota. But we Minnesotans know what the ones who did come here now know, its a great place to live. We have the HARDEST time getting people here, but we also are one of the BEST in keeping them here once they get here. But thats the rub, its SO HARD to get them here.

We started to change that in the 90s, but then we got found to have cheated. Haskins said it was the constant pressure he felt to win and how hard it was to recruit players to come here, that led him to resort to cheating. Sure he was just trying to make an excuse. But the point is, no matter what his reasons were and all that, the fact remains our reputation was tarnished, and it took Tubby coming here for that reputation to start to change. The Natl Press believes in Tubby, and now that we're finally healthy, we are doing well. Go figure.

Minnesota football fans are simply unrealistic. With no evidence whatsoever, EVER in history, that we can get players to come here, they expect every coach that comes here to be able to instantly change things. The good athletes we got from out of state in the 60s, were because the SEC schools wouldn't take them. Now that the SEC is welcoming black athletes with open arms, well, now the only way we can get them here is if they are not that great, or we get in a coach that can bring in top athletes. Tubby has that potential. Not sure if Jerry Kill does or not, but he can coach and he's a program builder, like Mason was. If he is given time, he'll slowly move us up and up and up, and the better we do, the better he'll recruit. The same is true with Tubby. This good season should translate in better recruiting. IF it doesn't, then maybe we move on and replace Tubby.
 

It is NOT a coach hating thing. Get it straight.

It is about results. Just results.

Deliver.

This year, most gh'ers could not understand that this team should win and win big. Lots of talk and blather, and no confidence - other than 10 wins.

10? With this team?

Great confidence in the coach and team.
 

BarnBurner -- Results? Deliver? Damn, you'd be considered demanding for a Duke, UNC or UK fan.

Seems to me, with a healthy team, Tubby HAS delivered.

What, btw, do you do for a living? What is your coaching history? Any success? Serious. You demand results as if you know all about getting them? So tell me, what results have you produced?

Are you ever played a sport even?! I've played in quite a few. In high school, in the military, and in college. My father was also a very successful high school coach. He was good friends with Lute Olson, who he played college fb with. He coached one of my teams, and I grew up watching him coach. His nickname? "Coach", which is understandable when its known that he coached every single sport my high school ever participated in, ever! Now he is older, he retired "officially" and moved up north, but that didn't stop him from coaching, and his nickname at his new school? Well? I've reconsidered saying what it was, because too big of a chance that someone at the site would actually know who he was. But it was the nickname of a famous older coach figure, I'll just say that much. So I am not totally in the dark when it comes to knowing what it takes to be a successful coach.

He is also old enough to remember listening to the Gophers on the radio in 1941, and taking his students and players to watch Gopher fb games in 1960.

Those Championship winning days are LONG LONG GONE!!!!!!!! Even the Big Ten as a conference is considered irrelevant when talking about the Natl Title hunt these days.

Seriously, Gopher fb AND bb, basically, SUCK. We are arguably THE WORST team in the entire conference looking at just those 2 sports, over my lifetime, basically 45 years.

We are a JOKE, a LAUGHINGSTOCK, the nation laughs at the Goophers. And when we have a coach that gets us to bowl games almost every year, we fire him, but still have to pay him, hire some unknown, who makes an iffy situation just plain bad. We have a BAD REP in the nation, as a school that expects WAY TOO MUCH from our coaches. NO ONE with any already established success in Major Conf BCS fb wants anything to do with the Gophers. Why bother? It will be hard to recruit people here, and they'll just get fired after 3 years if they don't prove to be miracle workers.

We couldn't keep Herb Brooks, and we fired his replacement despite the fact he was more successful than almost any other hockey coach the Gophers ever have had. Then we fired Woog, despite his success, and we were ready to fire Lucia only a few short years after our 2 titles.

Where do some of you Minnesota fans get these high expectations from? They are not realistic.

Serious? What have you critics done in your own lives that is so extraordinary that you seem to think you have the right to be so judgemental of others?
 



Every team deals with injuries, transfers, suspensions, early entrants, etc. However, elite teams are able to absorb losses better than other teams. Nothing wrong with wanting the Gophers to be one of those elite teams. Realistic or not.
 

But firing every coach that comes along and doesn't instantly perform a miracle and lead us to the promised land, isn't going to help the situation, IN FACT, doing that severely hurts the situation, it makes the situation evey worse. Coaches simply do NOT see Minnesota as a good job. NO ONE sees Minnesota as a final destination, except the desperate. Or those who feel up to the challenge and who do not have people beating down their door with offers.

Tubby wasn't at the top of everyone's list of prospective coaches. The word on him was that he won his Title with someone elses recruits and otherwise was a disappoint. He saw in the Minnesota situation, possibly a built in excuse if he failed and maybe a school desperate enough to give him more than 3 years to succeed, while also a school in a top conference, where if he succeeded, it would be seen and recognized by ALL. We were a perfect fit for Tubby. He can prove all of his detractors wrong, and in emphatic fashion. Had he won at Kentucky, his detractors would have just given the credit to Kentucky itself, the institution, its tradition, etc.. Winning here at Minnesota, if he does win while here, will be seen as HIS doing, HIS accomplishment, and due to HIS efforts, HIS recruiting, HIS coaching.

Jerry Kill, was successful, but was getting on in age, had been coaching long enough, and probably wasn't getting tons of great offers, and was possibly frustrated about that? I hear we went after him, not the other way around, so I could be wrong? Seems he would have been better off staying put where he was, seeing how that team turned out. I also think he didn't know how bad it was here, until after he'd already taken the job. But for Kill, this also was a pretty good fit. A team that needs rebuilding, something he's shown he can do, and possibly a team that would give the time needed to get that rebuilding done, and if successful, he'd have a head coaching gig in one of the top conferences in the country with a chance to show his stuff on a national stage.

I personally think that we have the best two coaches we could have gotten, or close to it, and that we need to give each coach more time. I've lived all over the country and I'm shocked we can get any recruit to want to come here to play in any sport other than hockey or wrestling. We rely heavily on home grown talent in almost all of our sports, and with the exception of hockey and wrestling and I suppose, VB, none of our sports have ever been more than a short term blip on the national screen. Consistently competitive possibly. CC and Swim & Dive and Baseball and Track are competitive, but heavily loaded with Minnesota talent.

Also, with so many of our top athletes choosing to play hockey, and to wrestle, or baseball, etc., we don't produce a bumper crop of football players, and although bb is better than it used to be, years like 2014 are few and far between. You HAVE TO be able to recruit outside of the state of Minnesota if you want to be successful in anything other than hockey.

Don't get me wrong, I love Minnesota and know all about its many positives.
But no one outside of Minnesota has a clue! Especially not teenagers.

I think we have to give Tubby enough time to see what happens now that we're having a good season. And I don't think getting any of our Top 3 targets for 2014 should be requirements either, as long as he gets a good class that season. Bringing in one and doners here like Rickert and Humphries don't always work out so good. Guys who will stay here 3-4 years are the kinds of guys that would really help build up the program, but again, don't get me wrong, getting Our Big 3 from 2014 would definitely help in the short term, and someone like Tubby just might be able to turn that into long term as well?
 

The transfers, injuries, and suspensions have all had an impact, to say that Tubby is not even remotely responsible for the last two 6-12 seasons seems a bit far fetched, those things are done and gone though, this season and the next few are where the focus should be. What gives you the best chance for success now and in the future is all that should matter, I don't think there are many out there that think party ways with tubby would be the way to go.
 

I agree that Tubby won the NCAA with players recruited by Pitino. But these transition years from one coach to another aren't easy. Tubby still coached e team to the championship with his system.

Not to sound too much like our old friend FOT, but I am not sure why we always hear that Tubby had limited success In Kentucky. In his 10 years he won 5 sec championships. In those 10 years he went to the NCAA tourney every year, with two sweet 16 finishes, three elite 8 finishes and an ncaa championship. I would say that is better than limited success.
 

How can you measure how close things were? Those teams would have had a better chance to get onto the NCAA bubble without the injuries & issues, but they weren't heading for incredible seasons like they are this year.

It's not hard to say the 2009-10 team that squeaked in as an 11 seed would have been a much higher seed and probably won a game or two with Trevor, Royce and Al playing. And I seem to recall you advising us to keep expectations for this year?
 


Our talent wasn't too much different the year Royce and Trevor sat out and Nolen was hurt. Had they all played, we would've been pretty damn good. This year's team has a better starting lineup, but that other squad was definitely deeper.

How can you measure how close things were? Those teams would have had a better chance to get onto the NCAA bubble without the injuries & issues, but they weren't heading for incredible seasons like they are this year.
 

It's funny that IndecipherableName called me "an idiot, plain and simple" for a post that conveyed virtually the exact sentiments he has expressed repeatedly in this thread. Multiple personalities or just likes to argue?
 

dpodoll68 - I vaguely remember calling you an idiot, in another thread. Maybe I was out of line for I rarely insult people like that. I am curious what thread that was in? I would like to go back and reread the thread so I could reassess my actions to know for sure whether I do in fact owe you an apology, or if you are in fact, an idiot? lol, jk about that. I don't think you are an idiot, and I probably just meant that some specific comment you may have made was not the most well thought out, and in the moment, I am human, and remember dropping the term idiot to describe you. Well, hell, I'm not that concerned to be honest with what you said, and no matter, I owe you an apology. I'm sorry I insulted your intelligence, that was not mature or intelligent on my part, it was rude and beneath me, and not an honorable way to act. As a Gopher fan, I hope to be someone other Gopher fans will never be ashamed of. I'm passionate, we Gopher fans should be able to disagree without calling each other names, so I'm sorry and I hope you accept my apology.
 

I agree that Tubby won the NCAA with players recruited by Pitino. But these transition years from one coach to another aren't easy. Tubby still coached e team to the championship with his system.

Not to sound too much like our old friend FOT, but I am not sure why we always hear that Tubby had limited success In Kentucky. In his 10 years he won 5 sec championships. In those 10 years he went to the NCAA tourney every year, with two sweet 16 finishes, three elite 8 finishes and an ncaa championship. I would say that is better than limited success.

I would guess that much of the complaints in Kentucky had to do with lack of NCAA final fours, which is expected there...
 

I love the people that think injuries/transfers shouldn't derail a season. ***Knock on wood***....what if Trevor and Rodney went down and Andre decided to transfer....is this team still supposed to compete for a BT title and NCAA run??

Tubby has a had a string of bad luck. Injuries plus PC's family. Transfers - I put partially on Tubby but mostly on the players. He's a demanding coach. Cobbs and Joseph weren't man enough to step up and decided to run. Royce - look at his NBA situation and tell me he's not f'ed up in the head. Not Tubby's fault.



***Still knocking on wood btw***
 

dpodoll68 - I vaguely remember calling you an idiot, in another thread. Maybe I was out of line for I rarely insult people like that. I am curious what thread that was in? I would like to go back and reread the thread so I could reassess my actions to know for sure whether I do in fact owe you an apology, or if you are in fact, an idiot? lol, jk about that. I don't think you are an idiot, and I probably just meant that some specific comment you may have made was not the most well thought out, and in the moment, I am human, and remember dropping the term idiot to describe you. Well, hell, I'm not that concerned to be honest with what you said, and no matter, I owe you an apology. I'm sorry I insulted your intelligence, that was not mature or intelligent on my part, it was rude and beneath me, and not an honorable way to act. As a Gopher fan, I hope to be someone other Gopher fans will never be ashamed of. I'm passionate, we Gopher fans should be able to disagree without calling each other names, so I'm sorry and I hope you accept my apology.

That was big of you. Thank you.
 




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