Incredible but true: Palm still has Gophers in his "first 4 out"

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SelectionSunday

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Almost hate to post this so as to not give the few us still holding out the faintest hope, but. ...

In his updated bracket projection today, incredibly, despite their current freefall & 5-10 B1G record, Jerry Palm of CollegeRPI.com still has the Gophers right in the mix as one his "first 4 out". Amazing. Palm has Arizona, Iowa State, Texas and Washington as his "last 4 in", with the Gophers, Miami-Florida, Oregon & VCU as his "first 4 out".

I'd suggest you don't poo-poo Palm's thoughts on the bracket. In fact, in each of the last 2 seasons, he has outperformed the much more heralded Joe Lunardi of ESPN.com, albeit by 1 at-large team each year. Here are the results from the last 2 seasons, and I'll include mine just for the H of it. Included are the at-larges ones we missed.

Palm (CollegeRPI.com)
2009-10: 34 of 34 (perfect)
2010-11: 35 of 37 (had St. Mary's & Virginia Tech in, UAB & USC made it instead)

Lunardi (ESPN.com)
2009-10: 33 of 34 (had Illinois in, Florida made it instead)
2010-11: 34 of 37 (had Colorado, St. Mary's & Virginia Tech in, Georgia, UAB & VCU made it instead)

SS (GopherHole)
2009-10: 33 of 34 (had Illinois in, Florida made it instead)
2010-11: 35 of 37 (had Colorado & Virginia Tech in, Georgia & UAB made it instead)

Shameless plug here. ... I'll have a "Road to Selection Sunday" piece on GopherHole (hopefully) later today that focuses on how I think the NCAA Tournament field is shaping up. You'll see the Gophers in my "longshot" column, which basically means they likely need to win out and do serious damage (at least get to the BTT semis) to even be considered for an at-large.
 

I've never quite understood that terminology. I understand that they are using "first" in terms of "the best" teams left out, but since the tournament selection is a winnowing process, it seems that "Last 4 Out" or "Final 4 Out" are more accurate descriptions. "First 4 Out" implies that they were only lightly considered before being swept aside almost immediately. They call championship weekend the Final Four, not the First Four.
 

Yes, agree that it can be confusing. Individual preference, I guess.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Almost hate to post this so as to not give the few us still holding out the faintest hope, but. ...

In his updated bracket projection today, incredibly, despite their current freefall & 5-10 B1G record, Jerry Palm of CollegeRPI.com still has the Gophers right in the mix as one his "first 4 out". Amazing. Palm has Arizona, Iowa State, Texas and Washington as his "last 4 in", with the Gophers, Miami-Florida, Oregon & VCU as his "first 4 out".

I'd suggest you don't poo-poo Palm's thoughts on the bracket. In fact, in each of the last 2 seasons, he has outperformed the much more heralded Joe Lunardi of ESPN.com, albeit by 1 at-large team each year. Here are the results from the last 2 seasons, and I'll include mine just for the H of it. Included are the at-larges ones we missed.

Palm (CollegeRPI.com)
2009-10: 34 of 34 (perfect)
2010-11: 35 of 37 (had St. Mary's & Virginia Tech in, UAB & USC made it instead)

Lunardi (ESPN.com)
2009-10: 33 of 34 (had Illinois in, Florida made it instead)
2010-11: 34 of 37 (had Colorado, St. Mary's & Virginia Tech in, Georgia, UAB & VCU made it instead)

SS (GopherHole)
2009-10: 33 of 34 (had Illinois in, Florida made it instead)
2010-11: 35 of 37 (had Colorado & Virginia Tech in, Georgia & UAB made it instead)

Shameless plug here. ... I'll have a "Road to Selection Sunday" piece on GopherHole (hopefully) later today that focuses on how I think the NCAA Tournament field is shaping up. You'll see the Gophers in my "longshot" column, which basically means they likely need to win out and do serious damage (at least get to the BTT semis) to even be considered for an at-large.
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Thanks for the hope. Winning 5 in a row would certainly create something to talk about. So, hmmm, now I'm back to being angry about blowing that lead at home again...I'd have to assume we'd be last 4 in had we won. ooof.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I've never quite understood that terminology. I understand that they are using "first" in terms of "the best" teams left out, but since the tournament selection is a winnowing process, it seems that "Last 4 Out" or "Final 4 Out" are more accurate descriptions. "First 4 Out" implies that they were only lightly considered before being swept aside almost immediately. They call championship weekend the Final Four, not the First Four.
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I agree.

*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#.

Edit: Sh!t.
 


bga1 said:
Thanks for the hope. Winning 5 in a row would certainly create something to talk about. So, hmmm, now I'm back to being angry about blowing that lead at home again...I'd have to assume we'd be last 4 in had we won. ooof.
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Yep. Even throwing out all our other blown opportunities, just that win over Sparty would look so huge right now.
 

This is crazy, if extension of the field means that teams with losing conference records get in then change it back to 64. I believe it was expanded so that teams that deserved to get in are included not to cheapen the field. Without winning the B1G tournament I just don't think the Gophers deserve it.
 

jovs said:
This is crazy, if extension of the field means that teams with losing conference records get in then change it back to 64. I believe it was expanded so that teams that deserved to get in are included not to cheapen the field. Without winning the B1G tournament I just don't think the Gophers deserve it.
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& $$
 

jovs said:
Without winning the B1G tournament I just don't think the Gophers deserve it.
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Can't say I disagree with you at this point, but everyone's playing under the same rules.

I do think this is a year we're going to see quite a few more non-Big 6 teams get rewarded. There's a pretty good sized group of non-BCS teams that if they don't win their conference tourney, they're still going to get in.
 



Pretty much falls in line with too many bowl games. Many think post season play should not occur with a less than 500 conference record.

Is finishing 8-10(or God forbid 7-11) in the Big Ten considered success.?
 

station19 said:
Is finishing 8-10(or God forbid 7-11) in the Big Ten considered success.?
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I wouldn't consider that success, but if the Gophers snuck into the tournament with that record and won a game or 2, IMO it certainly would take some of the sting off the disappointing regular-season B1G performance.
 

station19 said:
Pretty much falls in line with too many bowl games. Many think post season play should not occur with a less than 500 conference record.

Is finishing 8-10(or God forbid 7-11) in the Big Ten considered success.?
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It is still way easier to make a bowl game than the NCAA tourney.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I wouldn't consider that success, but if the Gophers snuck into the tournament with that record and won a game or 2, IMO it certainly would take some of the sting off the disappointing regular-season B1G performance.
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I agree it would take some of the sting off, if we won a game or two especially.

I guess my problem is finishing sixth or seventh in conference with 8 or 9 wins, and people going whoopee, 20 consecutive trips to the dance, we are so successful.
 



If UAB made it in last year, anyone has a chance (still no reasonable explanation given as to why they got a bid). If somehow the Gophers, can win the last 3 and a game or two in the BT tourney, then it can get interesting. That's how weak the bubble is this year.
 

mnhoopboy said:
If UAB made it in last year, anyone has a chance (still no reasonable explanation given as to why they got a bid). If somehow the Gophers, can win the last 3 and a game or two in the BT tourney, then it can get interesting. That's how weak the bubble is this year.
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'This year', or pretty much every year now-days?
 

mnhoopboy said:
still no reasonable explanation given as to why they got a bid
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They had an RPI of 31 and were the Conf-USA regular season champs with a record of 22-8 (12-4). They had 10 Top 100 wins and only 1 bad loss (Arizona St.). I don't see what's so egregious about their inclusion. Why shouldn't they have made it? Who would you have selected in their place?
 

dpodoll68 said:
They had an RPI of 31 and were the Conf-USA regular season champs with a record of 22-8 (12-4). They had 10 Top 100 wins and only 1 bad loss (Arizona St.). I don't see what's so egregious about their inclusion. Why shouldn't they have made it? Who would you have selected in their place?
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Minnesota, but I may be biased.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I wouldn't consider that success, but if the Gophers snuck into the tournament with that record and won a game or 2, IMO it certainly would take some of the sting off the disappointing regular-season B1G performance.
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I definitely agree and hope they can do it. It would be a very nice end to a fairly disappointing season.

For some reason though, I feel like I am Charlie Brown, and I am about to get the football pulled away from me again.
 

Please move the tournament back to 64 teams so these *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ty bubble teams don't make the tournament.

There is absolutely no reason why the Gophers should even be in discussion for an bid.
 

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