ESPN: Illinois AD will evaluate Bruce Weber

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88-60 in 8 years. In NCAA's 6 out of 8 years coaching Illinois and they might make a change? Why who do they think they can get better than Weber? If we can't get better than a coach that is way below .500 they can forget getting a better coach than Weber.
 

minngg said:
88-60 in 8 years. In NCAA's 6 out of 8 years coaching Illinois and they might make a change? Why who do they think they can get better than Weber? If we can't get better than a coach that is way below .500 they can forget getting a better coach than Weber.
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Illinois has a roster full of 4 and 5 star guys, recruit the talent rich Chicago area, has great facilities, and a prior coach who was extremely successful.

That's why they are disappointed with that record. Minnesota has none of those things.
 

scher215 said:
Illinois has a roster full of 4 and 5 star guys, recruit the talent rich Chicago area, has great facilities, and a prior coach who was extremely successful.

That's why they are disappointed with that record. Minnesota has none of those things.
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So we have a 40% winning type program. How the heck did Butler ever win? How did UConn ever win? How did WI ever win? By the way, Illinois does not have one 5* player on their roster. Great facilities? They have a practice facility but their arena is a dump.
 

minngg said:
88-60 in 8 years. In NCAA's 6 out of 8 years coaching Illinois and they might make a change? Why who do they think they can get better than Weber? If we can't get better than a coach that is way below .500 they can forget getting a better coach than Weber.
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They have expectations for where they want to be. Weber isn't meeting them, so while they could be doing worse they expect to be doing better, and if Weber won't do it, they are going to find someone else.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
They have expectations for where they want to be. Weber isn't meeting them, so while they could be doing worse they expect to be doing better, and if Weber won't do it, they are going to find someone else.
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Exactly what we should be doing.
 

Illinois fans are among the most delusional in all of college basketball.
 

minngg said:
So we have a 40% winning type program.
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Well, historically, we are close to that, yes. Our all-time Big Ten record is 707-744.
Illinois is much, much stronger traditionally. There are only 12 schools with more NCAA tourney appearances than Illinois and only one in the Big Ten (Indiana). Illinois has been to 29 NCAAs. There is only one pre-expansion Big Ten team with fewer NCAA appearances than Minnesota (Northwestern). Minnesota has been to 11 tourneys, only six appearances count. In the last 70 years Minnesota has won THREE Big Ten titles (only two count). Illinois has won 12 Big Ten titles in that same time.

As for reasonable expectations -- Tubby walked into a situation where the Big Ten record at his new school was 21-43 (.328%) in the previous four seasons (including three 10th place finishes). Weber walked into a situation where the Big Ten record was 46-18 (719%) in the four previous seasons (including two Big Ten titles and a 2nd place finish) and a roster stocked full of talent (Deron Williams, Dee Brown, etc).

minngg said:
By the way, Illinois does not have one 5* player on their roster.
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No, they have no 5* players, but they do have SEVEN guys who were 4* and who were ALL ranked in the Top 100. That's pretty good.

minngg said:
How the heck did Butler ever win?
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They have the biggest budget in their league. They devote more resources to hoops than anyone in that conference.

minngg said:
How did UConn ever win?
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1) It is clear they have cheated. Probation, sanctions, suspensions, and vacated wins have littered Calhoun's record.

2) They built a brand new arena in 1990. Since then, they have devoted most of their department's resources to men's and women's basketball and both programs have been powerful.
 

minngg said:
So we have a 40% winning type program. How the heck did Butler ever win? How did UConn ever win? How did WI ever win? By the way, Illinois does not have one 5* player on their roster. Great facilities? They have a practice facility but their arena is a dump.
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I'd say the whole campus is a dump.
 



tjgopher said:
Well, historically, we are close to that, yes. Our all-time Big Ten record is 707-744.
Illinois is much, much stronger traditionally. There are only 12 schools with more NCAA tourney appearances than Illinois and only one in the Big Ten (Indiana). Illinois has been to 29 NCAAs. There is only one pre-expansion Big Ten team with fewer NCAA appearances than Minnesota (Northwestern). Minnesota has been to 11 tourneys, only six appearances count. In the last 70 years Minnesota has won THREE Big Ten titles (only two count). Illinois has won 12 Big Ten titles in that same time.

As for reasonable expectations -- Tubby walked into a situation where the Big Ten record at his new school was 21-43 (.328%) in the previous four seasons (including three 10th place finishes). Weber walked into a situation where the Big Ten record was 46-18 (719%) in the four previous seasons (including two Big Ten titles and a 2nd place finish) and a roster stocked full of talent (Deron Williams, Dee Brown, etc).



No, they have no 5* players, but they do have SEVEN guys who were 4* and who were ALL ranked in the Top 100. That's pretty good.



They have the biggest budget in their league. They devote more resources to hoops than anyone in that conference.



1) It is clear they have cheated. Probation, sanctions, suspensions, and vacated wins have littered Calhoun's record.

2) They built a brand new arena in 1990. Since then, they have devoted most of their department's resources to men's and women's basketball and both programs have been powerful.
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Gotcha. Nobody can do better so let's keep Tubby. Butler didn't just win their conference. They went to the championship game two years in a row without a practice facility. Ct has no practice facility either. Wisconsin had a owrse conference record than we did in basketball until Dick Bennett got there. Was he a $2 Million coach? A big name? How about Bo Ryan? Did he get run off by a big name school to coach their? Painter? Giving up is not the answer. There is plenty of basketball talent in this state to succeed. Monson didn't do it. He inherited a much worse situation than Tubby yet he finished higher in conference than Tubby ever has. Monson was fired and rightfully so. Being in the 2nd half of the conference every year is unacceptable at any school.
 

minngg said:
Gotcha. Nobody can do better so let's keep Tubby.
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No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I don't think Tubby is blameless in the recent struggles. He should be asked about why players are transferring and other issues within the program before any extension is granted. And, any extension has to be "university-friendly." I like the current young guys on the team and would like to see if Tubby can keep them together. Just not as willing to pull the plug this soon. Apparently, you are ready to fire him. That's fine. I just disagree for now. Doesn't mean I won't change my mind 365 days from now if we're sitting at 5-10 in the league.

minngg said:
Wisconsin had a worse conference record than we did in basketball until Dick Bennett got there. Was he a $2 Million coach? A big name? How about Bo Ryan? Did he get run off by a big name school to coach their?
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No, but they opened a fancy, brand new arena as Bennett arrived on the scene and immediately saw the dividends, including a Final Four. Whether we think the Kohl Center is sterile or not, to deny that had something to do with their rise is crazy. 17,000 paying customers every night is a huge revenue boost and a huge boost to fan morale, support, and pride. Check out attendance, fundraising, and revenue prior to that venue opening. Its light years different now.
 

tjgopher said:
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I don't think Tubby is blameless in the recent struggles. He should be asked about why players are transferring and other issues within the program before any extension is granted. And, any extension has to be "university-friendly." I like the current young guys on the team and would like to see if Tubby can keep them together. Just not as willing to pull the plug this soon. Apparently, you are ready to fire him. That's fine. I just disagree for now. Doesn't mean I won't change my mind 365 days from now if we're sitting at 5-10 in the league.
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I think this raises an interesting point. We seem to have arguments about how much blame we want to give Tubby for transfers out. There is something to be said for a coach wanting to get rid of players that don't want to play his system, but by the same token, you then need to make sure you are recruiting players with the right attitude who are right for your system. Additionally, it is fair to say that Tubby can't control everything his players do off the court (Royce White) but there is something he can do to not recruit discipline problems. I now everything thinks I'm crazy for saying I didn't want White in the first place, and I wish I was a member of this board because I said to my friends I don't want him before he got to the U. I recognize there are different lines of thought on that, and I tend to me more willing to pass on talent to keep nonsense out of the locker room then others. It seems fairly incontrovertible that in hindsight, bringing in Royce doesn't work out. A more fair way to criticize my line of thinking would be to say that I would have wanted to cut Stoudermire after his Facebook blow up (which I did) and I would have missed out on his work as a return man and cornerback since (which I would have).

I got a little off topic, but what I wanted to say is while we argue about the transfers, I really want to know in the negotiation discussions, how much of an explanation has Maturi demanded for them and what has Tubby said to make him believe it will change in the future? I wish I could be a fly on the wall for those discussions.
 




tjgopher said:
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I don't think Tubby is blameless in the recent struggles. He should be asked about why players are transferring and other issues within the program before any extension is granted. And, any extension has to be "university-friendly." I like the current young guys on the team and would like to see if Tubby can keep them together. Just not as willing to pull the plug this soon. Apparently, you are ready to fire him. That's fine. I just disagree for now. Doesn't mean I won't change my mind 365 days from now if we're sitting at 5-10 in the league.
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I've come to the conclusion that it's impossible to have a discussion with him. You come back with a reasonable response to his statements, and if it defends Tubby in any way, then it means you and everyone else is okay with being mediocre and that Tubby is doing a phenomenal job. That's his response every time.
 

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